Alternative Investments

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Aug 7, 2007 11:29 am

I have a prospect who has me stumped, so I'm looking for some ideas. 


Here's the basics: Late 50's retired woman.  Lots of money I believe.  Uses Morgan Stanley's private money managers and does some other things on her own.  She has $50K, maybe more, to do something with.  IRA money.  Has all of the stylebox covered to her satisfaction.  Looking for something that will either A) make a bunch of money or B) not lose anything for her.  Doesn't want to do REITS, commodities, or options.  She won't tell me exactly how much of her portfolio the $50K represents.  Says I don't really need to know.  So, I'm pretty much taking shots in the dark here.  I just need some ideas for some other bullets.       

Aug 7, 2007 11:35 am

Sell her a LI policy. She can make at least 10X on her money, tax free. If she put it into the market she'd have to make a lot more than that to arrive at $500,000, after taxes. Also, she won't have to wait forever for that $50,000 to grow to $775,000 to achieve that after tax return. It will be guaranteed on day one.

Aug 7, 2007 12:32 pm

Sorry, Bobby reminded me.  She doesn't care about wealth transfer.  She literally said it means absolutely nothing to her.  I thought about LI too. 

Aug 7, 2007 12:46 pm

VA

Aug 7, 2007 12:47 pm

Something to think about is if you even want this account. If she doesnt recognize the value in having you know her situation before you make a RECO, and she is throwing you a bone of $50K (when her assets may be much much higher than that), she may not be a good prospect.


I am sure you have, but does she know that you can assess her overall situation, and then make an appropriate suggestion after you have the facts?


I know, on the one hand it is good to 'get in the door' and potentially increase the relationship from there... But if she has a $1MM portfolio and she is giving you 5% of it, it may be an uphill battle you may want to pass on...

Aug 7, 2007 12:48 pm

Canadien Oil Royalty Trusts 

Aug 7, 2007 12:48 pm

IRA money, folks???



Spiff - this sounds and smells like trouble to me. She isn't forthcoming w/ information, she doesn't want any alternative investments although that's what the money is pegged for. When and what will she spend the cash on, and how much do you want this $50K?

Aug 7, 2007 1:05 pm

Is she just testing your creativity? 


Tell her to invest the 50k in your business.  She has the confidence to invest with you, maybe she will have the confidence to invest in you?  She might like the idea of being a 'silent partner' in some small way.


Get a good deal and use the money to expand your business.  I'm sure this option hasn't been thrown at her by her other advisors.


Or, just recommend some venture investments.

Aug 7, 2007 1:11 pm

Tell her that she needs to either give that 50m to her current advisor or move all of her assets over to you.

Aug 7, 2007 1:56 pm

Bobby is right on with his last comment.

Aug 7, 2007 2:10 pm
Bobby Hull:

Tell her that she needs to either give that 50m to her current advisor or move all of her assets over to you.


Well said, BH.

Aug 7, 2007 3:31 pm

I'm beginning to like BH's attitude.  I wish I had a little bit of it myself.  The give me your money or screw you conversation just doesn't flow out of my mouth yet. 


This lady has been one of the elephants out there that just stay far enough away to not even be tempting.  I'm looking for a way to take a shot at the whole portfolio, not just the $50K.  If the $50K is the place to start than so be it.  But, I'm not going to cry myself to sleep because I don't get the $$.  I'll keep dripping on her from time to time.  Maybe something will click. 


Thanks for the ideas.  Keep em coming.  


Aug 7, 2007 3:47 pm

I believe that there aren't good or bad investments (except in hindsite).  There are appropriate and inappropriate investments.  It is an impossibility for you to recommend appropriate investments without a complete set of facts.  Also, let's be honest, if you don't have someone giving you a complete set of facts, you don't have much of a prospect.

Aug 7, 2007 4:25 pm
Bobby Hull:

Tell her that she needs to either give that 50m to her current advisor or move all of her assets over to you.


That's exactly right. I would use the doctor analogy with her. If you went to a doctor with a hurt arm, and he asked you about your general medical history, and you wouldn't tell him anything (past medication, surgeries, etc.), but told him to "just fix your arm," he would tell you to take a hike. You've got to do the same.

Aug 7, 2007 5:01 pm
Spaceman Spiff:

I'm beginning to like BH's attitude.  I wish I had a little bit of it myself.  The give me your money or screw you conversation just doesn't flow out of my mouth yet. 


This lady has been one of the elephants out there that just stay far enough away to not even be tempting.  I'm looking for a way to take a shot at the whole portfolio, not just the $50K.  If the $50K is the place to start than so be it.  But, I'm not going to cry myself to sleep because I don't get the $$.  I'll keep dripping on her from time to time.  Maybe something will click. 


Thanks for the ideas.  Keep em coming.  



You're being tested.......what will your answer be?  I used to beat my head in over folks like her.  I can't count the number of $50K accounts I took "hoping" to get the "serious money". 


Clients like her can throw bones until the cows come home.  Most likely she either doesn't trust you enough to give you some "real money", or she is trying to be "nice"..........


If you know her well enough, you could try this:


"Mrs. X, in order to make a good recommendation, I need to know more about how your money is invested with your other advisors.  I don't want to duplicate what you're already doing, and I'm sure you don't want that either, so please share with me how you are invested"..............


If she balks, you have a "bone-thrower".  You then have to decide if you want the account or not.........


I still get calls from old clients that ask me WHY they were not sent transfer paperwork, etc.  My reply is the same: "I am running my business on a fee basis, and I would be doing you and my other clients a disservice if I changed my business model to accomodate clients who don't want to operate on a fee basis.  ______ , who took over your account after I left, is capable and will help you.  In the future, if you are willing to work with me on a fee basis, I would be more than happy to talk further"........





Aug 7, 2007 5:43 pm

I have already shown her a mutual fund proposal that I use with a lot of clients.  After seeing it, that's when she told me that she's got all of those things covered and is looking for alternatives. 


I did tell her that I would like to see what else she is investing in so that I don't duplicate anything more with my recommendations.  She said that she didn't know that there would be any value to me to see her exact portfolio (or the $$ amounts) and that I should just assume that the portfolio I gave her is pretty much what she is already investing in.  That's when she said if I had investments outside of the norm, I can show her those.  I should have said I work for Jones and we don't do anything outside of the norm and hung up the phone. 


So...dump her and move on?

Aug 7, 2007 5:50 pm
Spaceman Spiff:

I have already shown her a mutual fund proposal that I use with a lot of clients.  After seeing it, that's when she told me that she's got all of those things covered and is looking for alternatives. 


I did tell her that I would like to see what else she is investing in so that I don't duplicate anything more with my recommendations.  She said that she didn't know that there would be any value to me to see her exact portfolio (or the $$ amounts) and that I should just assume that the portfolio I gave her is pretty much what she is already investing in.  That's when she said if I had investments outside of the norm, I can show her those.  I should have said I work for Jones and we don't do anything outside of the norm and hung up the phone. 


So...dump her and move on?



sh*t can her. You've already taken a subordinate position in the relationship. You may think that SHE is an elephant, but she doesn't think that YOU are one. This old hag wants a man to boss around and you stepped right up to the plate.

Aug 7, 2007 7:04 pm
Bobby Hull:
Spaceman Spiff:

I have already shown her a mutual fund proposal that I use with a lot of clients.  After seeing it, that's when she told me that she's got all of those things covered and is looking for alternatives. 


I did tell her that I would like to see what else she is investing in so that I don't duplicate anything more with my recommendations.  She said that she didn't know that there would be any value to me to see her exact portfolio (or the $$ amounts) and that I should just assume that the portfolio I gave her is pretty much what she is already investing in.  That's when she said if I had investments outside of the norm, I can show her those.  I should have said I work for Jones and we don't do anything outside of the norm and hung up the phone. 


So...dump her and move on?



sh*t can her. You've already taken a subordinate position in the relationship. You may think that SHE is an elephant, but she doesn't think that YOU are one. This old hag wants a man to boss around and you stepped right up to the plate.



Bobby's on a roll, and I totally agree.


If you only help her with an alternative investment, one of two things will happen. One, the investment will do incredible, in which case, she will want five more just like it. Obviously impossible. Or, and more likely, the investment will have a bad run. Then, she will think you are a moron because her other stuff is doing ok.  Lose/Lose.

Aug 7, 2007 7:09 pm

Spiff, 


Call #77, I'll bet they'll tell you to sell her a muni.  Every time I  have ever called them for an idea they recommend a muni.


Seriously, while I wouldn't have the guts to do it, maybe you should respectfully tell her that as much as you'd like her business she might be better served elsewhere since you're not comfortable recommending an investment without knowing how it fits in to her total portfolio.  That may call her bluff.

Aug 7, 2007 7:13 pm
justcheckin:

Spiff, 


Call #77, I'll bet they'll tell you to sell her a muni.  Every time I  have ever called them for an idea they recommend a muni.


Seriously, while I wouldn't have the guts to do it, maybe you should respectfully tell her that as much as you'd like her business she might be better served elsewhere since you're not comfortable recommending an investment without knowing how it fits in to her total portfolio.  That may call her bluff.



Why is that so hard? It's the best advice anyone can give the old broad.