Can employment offer be rescinded for

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Mar 14, 2007 9:27 pm

...having an arrest record (that was expunged)?

Here's my story:

I have been offered employment at a major investment bank (top 5) in their IT department as a project manager.

While going through the pre-employment screening I was called by HR about an arrest record they found for shoplifting ($80 worth of clothes).  The arrest occurred about 8 months ago.  Long story short, the case was dismissed and I had my lawyer immediately start the expungement process.  The expungement order was finalized about a few days after I submitted the employment application.

Now I'm told, they have to get approval from NYSE Regulation before I can start my new job.

Does anyone know how long NYSE Regulation takes to review a matter like this?  I haven't given notice to my current employer because of this issue.

Also, can I be discriminated against for having been arrested?  As mentioned, the charges were dismissed and I had the arrest record expunged.

I have never been arrested before this incident or had any other problems with the law.  I also have an excellent credit score (avg: 800).

I am not a bad person, it was a bad time in my life since I was having marital problems, and this was a bad way of acting out.

Can they rescind a job offer due to an arrest?




Mar 14, 2007 9:42 pm

Why is a guy with a pristine credit report stealing something that he could buy on credit? If it happened 20 years ago, I could see looking past the incident. 8 months ago? Forget it. You still have handcuff marks on your wrists! Noone is going to let a thief work in IT. That's an easy way for a thief to steal. Sorry to sound so harsh. Keep your fingers crossed. It's your only hope.

Mar 14, 2007 9:50 pm

Yes, they can rescind the job offer due to an arrest.  They can also rescind the job offer because you lied about the arrest on your application.  Employers can discriminate against you for being arrested since "being arrested" is not a protected class.  They can also rescind the offer to you because they decided that they don't like your nose.

Mar 14, 2007 10:58 pm

Anxious, not to be redundant, but for the Love of God, TALK WITH A

SECURITIES AND/OR LABOR ATTORNEY!

Mar 15, 2007 7:18 am

I did not lie on my application.  The only question they asked is if I was ever CONVICTED of a crime or plead guilty, etc.  Since I was arrested and the charges subsequently dismissed, I answered NO (which was the truth).




Mar 15, 2007 7:56 am

Thanks for the information about the U-4, etc.  However, I did not complete a U-4 form, only the company's online employment application.  Which I had to sign, when I went in for the pre-employment screening (drug test and fingerprinting, etc.).

Because of my issue with this arrest, I was very careful when reading and answering the question.  I even contacted my lawyer and read him the entire question and he said I can honestly answer NO.

Luckily, I have a job now, and if they rescind this job offer, I guess I will just stay where I am.

Thanks for all the info.  It is appreciated.

Mar 15, 2007 8:03 am

Just one more thing, I got a call from HR yesterday saying that someone from their Employee Relations dept was going to call me to get more information about the incident.

Does anyone have an idea of what they are going to ask me?

Any advice about how to explain this matter without making my case worse? 

I know I deserve what I get for shoplifting in the first place, but I don't want this ONE incident to ruin the rest of my employment opportunities.  I did complete a course offered by the National Association for Shoplifting Prevention (NASP), which helped understand why I would do something like this.  It was very helpful, and I don't plan on shoplifting ever again.

Mar 15, 2007 11:19 am
Anxious:

Just one more thing, I got a call from HR yesterday saying that someone from their Employee Relations dept was going to call me to get more information about the incident.

Does anyone have an idea of what they are going to ask me?

Any advice about how to explain this matter without making my case worse? 

I know I deserve what I get for shoplifting in the first place, but I don't want this ONE incident to ruin the rest of my employment opportunities.  I did complete a course offered by the National Association for Shoplifting Prevention (NASP), which helped understand why I would do something like this.  It was very helpful, and I don't plan on shoplifting ever again.



You had to take a course to help you understand why you won't shoplift again?!?!?!?!?  How about it is wrong and illegal!!!!  You must have some problems so I hope you are not hired in this industry. 

Mar 15, 2007 1:11 pm

You can and should be fired.


There is no excuse for your behavior.  You cannot be employed in this field.


Why would a company let you manage other people's money.  You cannot cross the line even once.


Mar 15, 2007 2:57 pm

All of you reading my post can judge me as much as you want, the bottom line is I know what I did was wrong and I am very ashamed and embarrassed about this.  I was in a depressed and upset state when I did this; and I would not do it again.

Also, I do not manage anyone's money or have access to broker accounts; or anything else like that.  I don't even program anymore.  I am just a project manager on internal IT projects.

So, all of you think I should never be hired by a financial services firm ever in my life because of this ONE thing.

I have worked in IT, in the financial services industry for almost 15 years, and never once had a problem with my work performance, and been promoted many times.  So, my entire career should be erased over one mistake.

I have read many of the posts on rrdblawyer on reasons people get sanctioned by NYSE and NASD and people have done so MANY WORSE THINGS than shoplifting and my case was DISMISSED and I have NO CONVICTION, and I DID NOT LIE about it to this perspective employer.

What happened to people giving you a second chance?

I found this link on the internet, which talks about limiting inquiry into and use of arrest records in New York State.

http://www.lac.org/toolkits/arrests/...WS-arrests.pdf


I pray and hope this may apply to me in this context.

** I have one request of people reading my post: Please stop judging people. If you don't have an objective opinion or any useful information to add, what's the point? **

Mar 15, 2007 4:35 pm
maybeeeeeeee:

You can and should be fired.


There is no excuse for your behavior.  You cannot be employed in this field.


Why would a company let you manage other people's money.  You cannot cross the line even once.




Do you work in the IT department Maybeeee?   He's not even a RR or trying to become one. Nor was he found guilty.


Anxious  the NYSE problem probally led you to this site. You need to go on a HR message board you probally will find someone who works with these type issues.


Sorry for the burden you are having to carry, we all have them, most just never get caught. I see robbery in this biz from referrals statements monthly. 


Good luck out there and make alot of money and give me a call.....cause I promise most of us here would invest your money. Guilty or not.

Mar 15, 2007 5:00 pm
Anxious:

All of you reading my post can judge me as much as you want, the bottom line is I know what I did was wrong and I am very ashamed and embarrassed about this.  I was in a depressed and upset state when I did this; and I would not do it again.

Also, I do not manage anyone's money or have access to broker accounts; or anything else like that.  I don't even program anymore.  I am just a project manager on internal IT projects.

So, all of you think I should never be hired by a financial services firm ever in my life because of this ONE thing.

I have worked in IT, in the financial services industry for almost 15 years, and never once had a problem with my work performance, and been promoted many times.  So, my entire career should be erased over one mistake.

I have read many of the posts on rrdblawyer on reasons people get sanctioned by NYSE and NASD and people have done so MANY WORSE THINGS than shoplifting and my case was DISMISSED and I have NO CONVICTION, and I DID NOT LIE about it to this perspective employer.

What happened to people giving you a second chance?

I found this link on the internet, which talks about limiting inquiry into and use of arrest records in New York State.

<A href="http://www.lac.org/toolkits/arrests/MODEL%20LAWS-arrests.pdf" target=blank rel=nofollow target="blank">http://www.lac.org/toolkits/arrests/...WS-arrests.pdf

I pray and hope this may apply to me in this context.

** I have one request of people reading my post: Please stop judging people. If you don't have an objective opinion or any useful information to add, what's the point? **


Dude, you don't understand this industry. The government must operate under an assumption of innocence until proven guilty, not the rest of us. I don't think any of us wish you any harm...we're just telling you the thought process that permeates our industry. If the new firm wants you, you're in. I have my doubts that they'll take you, that's all.

Mar 15, 2007 6:11 pm

I hired a sales assistant several years ago who had a drug conviction. She

had gotten probation, had finished her probation and had it discharged. I

spoke with compliance before I hired her, and she was upfront about the

whole matter, trying to get her life in order again. Compliance approved,

subject to NASD review. Several months went by, and I got a call from

compliance telling me that NASD had shot it down. I called the NASD to

plead the case and was told that she had to go by the end of that day! I

asked them to reconsider, as she was getting it together. I was told no, that

they were sure that I could find someone who didn't need to get it together.



These people are serious.

Mar 15, 2007 7:04 pm

Thanks for sharing your story. 

Is it your opinion that I should not take the new job, even if they give me the ok after reviewing my case?  I am supposed to hear from the company tomorrow about their decision.

I have a good stable job now, and I don't want to worry that I'm going to lose my job at some unpredictable time in the future.

Mar 15, 2007 7:36 pm

My intention is not to try to scare you, Anxious. I merely show you the

times...and what you're up against. I know you'd like this new job, and I

hope for your sake that it works out. However, if they give it their blessing,

I'd ask if the NASD could (or would) override their decision.



Best of luck to you!

Mar 16, 2007 8:25 am
rrbdlawyer:

Anxious:


With all due respect, part of maturing in life is learning not to get all bent out of shape when some miscreants post nonsense on an anonymous website.  And, frankly, when you open the book on your life online and discuss intimate details, you have to expect that a lot of folks who simply enjoy flaming posters will vent their puerile fury.  Welcome to the untamed and raw Internet.


As to your situation, just ignore the postings that spew venom and carefully consider those that have tried to sensibly prepare you for the inevitable reality of Wall Street.  I am a lawyer who represents BD and RRs.  I have a great deal of experience with the matter you reference.  The bottom line, as many posters noted, is that this industry takes a dim view of folks with regulatory, criminal, or litigation histories.  Why?  The simple answer is that you are an enhanced liability.  If you are involved in any customer dispute, your background may be used against you -- regardless of whether the laws of evidence would permit such use.  As with many things in life, the crap that is your luggage often finds a way into the record.  Given that likelihood, if it comes down to hiring you or a choir boy, the choir boy will get the job and the promotion.


The next issue for you to understand is that based upon  your statement of the facts, there is NO regulatory prohibition against anyone hiring you.  On the other hand, that doesn't rule out firms declining to offer you a job because they just don't like the fact that you stole something that wasn't yours.  You can sue someone for not hiring you because they violate your constitutional rights, but not liking the cut of your jib is not an illegal consideration. 


At the end of the day, unlike many posters here, I understand your explanation.  You say it was an aberration and foolish lapse of youth.  Fine.  As a far more learned man than me once said, go and sin no more.  And that's your challenge.  You can't undo your past but you can try to prove to others that you slipped once and only once.  As we get older, we see that many individuals do indeed live the words of Amazing Grace--there can be redemption.


Consequently, suck it up, apply for the jobs, put in the hours, and get your life back on track.  Don't waste your time posting on these types of sites and then get upset by the garbage that folks toss your way.  Cull through what's worthwhile and live with it. 


I wish you the very best and hope things work out.


Bill Singer



Billy, do you "understand" that this "foolish lapse of youth" occurred 8 months ago?

Mar 16, 2007 9:18 am

"enhanced risk".....I like that one!

Mar 16, 2007 10:42 am

Perhaps he can get it "es sponged" (sp) from his record?

Mar 16, 2007 11:27 am
maybeeeeeeee:

Why would a company let you manage other people's money.  You cannot cross the line even once.





This guy could have very bright future in annuity sales.

Mar 16, 2007 11:43 am

Given that likelihood, if it comes down to hiring you or a choir boy, the choir boy will get the job and the promotion.


Obviously, NASD folks never saw the movie Babel.


Comments:  Sometimes people on forums spew lots of venom to make themselves look clever and to make you feel worse about yourself.  I agree wholeheartedly with the nice attorney's advice: and it was FREE: how many attorney's do this I ask.  You're doing fine in your current career field - don't change to this career: you will struggle and not make as much money, anyway.  Have you read posts on amexsux where new fa's work 80 hours a week and draw $25K--have to pay it back with their commissions, too.


You're forgiven: sin no more.  Pay no attention to negative driveland don't let it get you down.  Many others may have made the same mistakes (they just didn't get caught).