VAs for everybody

or Register to post new content in the forum

44 RepliesJump to last post

 

Comments

  • Allowed HTML tags: <em> <strong> <blockquote> <br> <p>

Plain text

  • No HTML tags allowed.
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.
Jun 23, 2007 5:56 pm

How can some people use Variable Annuities ONLY for everybody?  I know there are some great products out there, and there are a few that I really like - but for everybody?????


Can they truly be thinking about client's best interest, or their own?


Jun 24, 2007 1:18 am
FreeLunch:

How can some people use Variable Annuities ONLY for everybody?  I know there are some great products out there, and there are a few that I really like - but for everybody?????


Can they truly be thinking about client's best interest, or their own?




Here's how you do it, Mr. Five Figure Producer. First, you find people that want a VA. Next, you sell it to them.

Jun 24, 2007 7:13 am

BH is a great example.  From reading his posts, he sells a VA when one is appropriate. When one is appropriate he sells it.  When one isn't, he says "next". 

Jun 24, 2007 10:09 pm

Exactly, anon.


The posters on here who badmouth BH don't really understand that VAs are his niche, just like others like AllReit have a niche in money management (at least I think that's what he does).


What I find funny is that alot of anti-annuity posters on here really don't understand how they work and the benefits from a real world, practical level.  They automatically scream "HIGH FEES!!!!  NOOOOOOOO" and turn up their noses.  An advisor who doesn't understand what VAs are all about are unethical because they aren't doing the best job they can for their clients.

Jun 24, 2007 10:26 pm
anonymous:

BH is a great example.  From reading his posts, he sells a VA when one is appropriate. When one is appropriate he sells it.  When one isn't, he says "next". 

Jun 24, 2007 10:27 pm

Next - isn't he the guy who thinks having your CFP is stupid?

Jun 25, 2007 11:31 am
Bobby Hull:
FreeLunch:

How can some people use Variable Annuities ONLY for everybody?  I know there are some great products out there, and there are a few that I really like - but for everybody?????


Can they truly be thinking about client's best interest, or their own?




Here's how you do it, Mr. Five Figure Producer. First, you find people that want a VA. Next, you sell it to them.



I'm sorry, although our prospective clients must be much more well informed and SO much smarter than us, how many actually WANT an annuity without being SOLD one.  I know its true that idiots read the WSJ and see some neato product of the week (maybe an annuity) and go to their local broker to buy one.  But tell me, realistically, how many prospects have walked in your office, thrown a check on your desk and said, "I'll take one EIA, all riders, and make sure it pays you 10%"?  No one WANTS an investment product as complex as an annuity.  EVERYONE is SOLD an annuity.  Yes, people do want guarantees.  People do want insurance backed investments.  People do want tax deferral.  But how many prospects actually have the exact demands that come in an annuity?  My guess BH, is that anyone that has even a slight interest in one of the features you offer will be hounded and manipulated until they are convinced that your are selling them eternity giving holy water with a Guaranteed minimum.  How is that giving them options with their investments? 


Also, sometimes it is in the best interests of clients to not sell them what they want, but what they really NEED.  In another post, someone talked about a 35 year old that bought an annuity inside an IRA.  Why does a 35 year old need an expensive annuity in an IRA?  "Because they want the guarantee" you say? They don't need a guarantee right now.  They need maximum share accumulation when they are that young, whether their account value goes up or down.  They may be scared to see the market go down 20%.  I see the opportunity for them to accumulate more shares(leading to a larger peak recovery return), not for them to feel all goody goody about their 3% guarantee. 


I do feel that there are appropriate times to sell an annuity to someone.  But, after the amount of prospecting I've done, and the amount of qualifying for investments that I have done.  I would guess that maybe 10-20% of the qualified prospects I've talked to would have a truly good place for annuities (for SOME of their money) in their accounts.  So, out of app. 2000 prospects, only about 300-400 really qualified to become clients over the next few years; selling annuities to 30-60 clients and referring the other 80% to the guy not exclusively selling annuities would not allow me to stay in the business very long.  BH, what percentage of qualified prospects have you sent to other Advisors that have (in those situations) more appropriate investment opportunities for them? What percentage of prospects have you worked to CONVINCE them that an annuity is what they WANT?  Even if I specialized in something (and lied to myself about the appropriateness of it), I would never have the conscience to only do that one service for all of my clients.  Somewhere along the line I would build in a back up plan so that I could actually feel like I helped someone other than myself.

Jun 25, 2007 11:42 am
BteamBomber:
Bobby Hull:
FreeLunch:

How can some people use Variable Annuities ONLY for everybody?  I know there are some great products out there, and there are a few that I really like - but for everybody?????


Can they truly be thinking about client's best interest, or their own?




Here's how you do it, Mr. Five Figure Producer. First, you find people that want a VA. Next, you sell it to them.



I'm sorry, although our prospective clients must be much more well informed and SO much smarter than us, how many actually WANT an annuity without being SOLD one.  I know its true that idiots read the WSJ and see some neato product of the week (maybe an annuity) and go to their local broker to buy one.  But tell me, realistically, how many prospects have walked in your office, thrown a check on your desk and said, "I'll take one EIA, all riders, and make sure it pays you 10%"?  No one WANTS an investment product as complex as an annuity.  EVERYONE is SOLD an annuity.  Yes, people do want guarantees.  People do want insurance backed investments.  People do want tax deferral.  But how many prospects actually have the exact demands that come in an annuity?  My guess BH, is that anyone that has even a slight interest in one of the features you offer will be hounded and manipulated until they are convinced that your are selling them eternity giving holy water with a Guaranteed minimum.  How is that giving them options with their investments? 


Also, sometimes it is in the best interests of clients to not sell them what they want, but what they really NEED.  In another post, someone talked about a 35 year old that bought an annuity inside an IRA.  Why does a 35 year old need an expensive annuity in an IRA?  "Because they want the guarantee" you say? They don't need a guarantee right now.  They need maximum share accumulation when they are that young, whether their account value goes up or down.  They may be scared to see the market go down 20%.  I see the opportunity for them to accumulate more shares(leading to a larger peak recovery return), not for them to feel all goody goody about their 3% guarantee. 


I do feel that there are appropriate times to sell an annuity to someone.  But, after the amount of prospecting I've done, and the amount of qualifying for investments that I have done.  I would guess that maybe 10-20% of the qualified prospects I've talked to would have a truly good place for annuities (for SOME of their money) in their accounts.  So, out of app. 2000 prospects, only about 300-400 really qualified to become clients over the next few years; selling annuities to 30-60 clients and referring the other 80% to the guy not exclusively selling annuities would not allow me to stay in the business very long.  BH, what percentage of qualified prospects have you sent to other Advisors that have (in those situations) more appropriate investment opportunities for them? What percentage of prospects have you worked to CONVINCE them that an annuity is what they WANT?  Even if I specialized in something (and lied to myself about the appropriateness of it), I would never have the conscience to only do that one service for all of my clients.  Somewhere along the line I would build in a back up plan so that I could actually feel like I helped someone other than myself.



Take the number that plop down money and ask for stocks and mutual funds and insist that they be charged a fee, taken quarterly, then multiple by two and that's my answer. Would it shock you that everybody who makes a purchase from a car dealer ends up with a car? Even the one's who "need" a motorcycle. The horror of it all....

Jun 25, 2007 11:48 am
Bobby Hull:
BteamBomber:
Bobby Hull:
FreeLunch:

How can some people use Variable Annuities ONLY for everybody?  I know there are some great products out there, and there are a few that I really like - but for everybody?????


Can they truly be thinking about client's best interest, or their own?




Here's how you do it, Mr. Five Figure Producer. First, you find people that want a VA. Next, you sell it to them.



I'm sorry, although our prospective clients must be much more well informed and SO much smarter than us, how many actually WANT an annuity without being SOLD one.  I know its true that idiots read the WSJ and see some neato product of the week (maybe an annuity) and go to their local broker to buy one.  But tell me, realistically, how many prospects have walked in your office, thrown a check on your desk and said, "I'll take one EIA, all riders, and make sure it pays you 10%"?  No one WANTS an investment product as complex as an annuity.  EVERYONE is SOLD an annuity.  Yes, people do want guarantees.  People do want insurance backed investments.  People do want tax deferral.  But how many prospects actually have the exact demands that come in an annuity?  My guess BH, is that anyone that has even a slight interest in one of the features you offer will be hounded and manipulated until they are convinced that your are selling them eternity giving holy water with a Guaranteed minimum.  How is that giving them options with their investments? 


Also, sometimes it is in the best interests of clients to not sell them what they want, but what they really NEED.  In another post, someone talked about a 35 year old that bought an annuity inside an IRA.  Why does a 35 year old need an expensive annuity in an IRA?  "Because they want the guarantee" you say? They don't need a guarantee right now.  They need maximum share accumulation when they are that young, whether their account value goes up or down.  They may be scared to see the market go down 20%.  I see the opportunity for them to accumulate more shares(leading to a larger peak recovery return), not for them to feel all goody goody about their 3% guarantee. 


I do feel that there are appropriate times to sell an annuity to someone.  But, after the amount of prospecting I've done, and the amount of qualifying for investments that I have done.  I would guess that maybe 10-20% of the qualified prospects I've talked to would have a truly good place for annuities (for SOME of their money) in their accounts.  So, out of app. 2000 prospects, only about 300-400 really qualified to become clients over the next few years; selling annuities to 30-60 clients and referring the other 80% to the guy not exclusively selling annuities would not allow me to stay in the business very long.  BH, what percentage of qualified prospects have you sent to other Advisors that have (in those situations) more appropriate investment opportunities for them? What percentage of prospects have you worked to CONVINCE them that an annuity is what they WANT?  Even if I specialized in something (and lied to myself about the appropriateness of it), I would never have the conscience to only do that one service for all of my clients.  Somewhere along the line I would build in a back up plan so that I could actually feel like I helped someone other than myself.



Take the number that plop down money and ask for stocks and mutual funds and insist that they be charged a fee, taken quarterly, then multiple by two and that's my answer. Would it shock you that everybody who makes a purchase from a car dealer ends up with a car? Even the one's who "need" a motorcycle. The horror of it all....




Does it say "Bobby Hull, Annuities only!" on the sign outside your office?  My guess is that when someone goes to a car dealership they don't all walk out with fully loaded Hummers (great gas mileage and affordable!)

Jun 25, 2007 11:59 am
BteamBomber:
Bobby Hull:
BteamBomber:
Bobby Hull:
FreeLunch:

How can some people use Variable Annuities ONLY for everybody?  I know there are some great products out there, and there are a few that I really like - but for everybody?????


Can they truly be thinking about client's best interest, or their own?




Here's how you do it, Mr. Five Figure Producer. First, you find people that want a VA. Next, you sell it to them.



I'm sorry, although our prospective clients must be much more well informed and SO much smarter than us, how many actually WANT an annuity without being SOLD one.  I know its true that idiots read the WSJ and see some neato product of the week (maybe an annuity) and go to their local broker to buy one.  But tell me, realistically, how many prospects have walked in your office, thrown a check on your desk and said, "I'll take one EIA, all riders, and make sure it pays you 10%"?  No one WANTS an investment product as complex as an annuity.  EVERYONE is SOLD an annuity.  Yes, people do want guarantees.  People do want insurance backed investments.  People do want tax deferral.  But how many prospects actually have the exact demands that come in an annuity?  My guess BH, is that anyone that has even a slight interest in one of the features you offer will be hounded and manipulated until they are convinced that your are selling them eternity giving holy water with a Guaranteed minimum.  How is that giving them options with their investments? 


Also, sometimes it is in the best interests of clients to not sell them what they want, but what they really NEED.  In another post, someone talked about a 35 year old that bought an annuity inside an IRA.  Why does a 35 year old need an expensive annuity in an IRA?  "Because they want the guarantee" you say? They don't need a guarantee right now.  They need maximum share accumulation when they are that young, whether their account value goes up or down.  They may be scared to see the market go down 20%.  I see the opportunity for them to accumulate more shares(leading to a larger peak recovery return), not for them to feel all goody goody about their 3% guarantee. 


I do feel that there are appropriate times to sell an annuity to someone.  But, after the amount of prospecting I've done, and the amount of qualifying for investments that I have done.  I would guess that maybe 10-20% of the qualified prospects I've talked to would have a truly good place for annuities (for SOME of their money) in their accounts.  So, out of app. 2000 prospects, only about 300-400 really qualified to become clients over the next few years; selling annuities to 30-60 clients and referring the other 80% to the guy not exclusively selling annuities would not allow me to stay in the business very long.  BH, what percentage of qualified prospects have you sent to other Advisors that have (in those situations) more appropriate investment opportunities for them? What percentage of prospects have you worked to CONVINCE them that an annuity is what they WANT?  Even if I specialized in something (and lied to myself about the appropriateness of it), I would never have the conscience to only do that one service for all of my clients.  Somewhere along the line I would build in a back up plan so that I could actually feel like I helped someone other than myself.



Take the number that plop down money and ask for stocks and mutual funds and insist that they be charged a fee, taken quarterly, then multiple by two and that's my answer. Would it shock you that everybody who makes a purchase from a car dealer ends up with a car? Even the one's who "need" a motorcycle. The horror of it all....




Does it say "Bobby Hull, Annuities only!" on the sign outside your office?  My guess is that when someone goes to a car dealership they don't all walk out with fully loaded Hummers (great gas mileage and affordable!)



I sell annuities, dickhead. Everybody that comes to my office knows that we are going to talk about annuities. A piker like you wouldn't have the first clue about having the courage to specialize in something - "I can't do that....what if I leave money on the table?" Faggot.

Jun 25, 2007 12:13 pm

I must have touched the right nerve.  Wow, deep underneath the conscience of Bobby Hull.  Its not just "greater than thou" ego and cynicism.  Its actually anger and greed.  I underestimated you Bobby.  You truly are the greedy trash that I thought you were.  Keep at it, don't leave any money on the table Bobby, you might actually do your client good if you do.  Get every penny you swine. 

Jun 25, 2007 12:17 pm

bteam I emailed the admin to change your username to piker.  It's more suited to you.

Jun 25, 2007 12:37 pm

How am i piker for doing exactly what Bobby does only TO Bobby?  I actually have made good points about the business and have had legitimate questions for OTHER people on this sight in the past.  I just can't stand to see every single person that comes to RR with a real concern and question recieve a jackass remark from some bitter, greedy, schmuck that doesn't offer anything.  Every single post does not require a juvenile response from Bobby (as entitled as he feels to give one).  I know that he is expressing his freedom to be a jerk on this site, but it bothers me even more that when someone has legitimate arguments about his way of sleazily running his business that people like you defend him and encourage him to do more. 

Jun 25, 2007 12:44 pm

Bobby are you specialized if you're selling oil partnerships now too?

Or is it because 8% is more than 7%?

Jun 25, 2007 12:44 pm
BteamBomber:

I must have touched the right nerve.  Wow, deep underneath the conscience of Bobby Hull.  Its not just "greater than thou" ego and cynicism.  Its actually anger and greed.  I underestimated you Bobby.  You truly are the greedy trash that I thought you were.  Keep at it, don't leave any money on the table Bobby, you might actually do your client good if you do.  Get every penny you swine. 


Never underestimate solid salesmen like me. We're talking to your clients and you don't even know it.

Jun 25, 2007 12:46 pm
Bobby Hull:

solid salesmen like me. We're talking to your clients and you don't even know it.



Exactly.

My clients are smart enough to recognize one, in my experience.

Jun 25, 2007 12:51 pm

Bobby Soprano.

Jun 25, 2007 12:52 pm
joedabrkr:

Bobby are you specialized if you're selling oil partnerships now too?

Or is it because 8% is more than 7%?


Fair question. I get bored sometimes and want to add something to the mix. I like the excitement of racing against the clock to finish a project. Also, it's REAL easy to get referrals for stuff like this. By the way...the annuity pays 7.5%.

Jun 25, 2007 12:53 pm

...And thats why this business is so difficult.  I think there is about $300,000,000 in CD's just in my area that no broker will ever see.  Why?  Because of the number of bad advisors and swindlers there are in the business.  Every time a person became trapped in the wrong investment; every time a client was advised to do something that had nothing to do with their needs; every time some jerk took a huge payout on absolutely, the most innappropriate investment; I and most everyone else in this business lost a chance to really help someone.  I'll lay down a challenge to you Bobby.  Keep track of how many people with money available you actually do turn down for annuity business because it wasn't the right situation for them.  Keep track for one month, or even a year, and tell me if what we all suspect about you is true? 

Jun 25, 2007 12:55 pm
joedabrkr:
Bobby Hull:

solid salesmen like me. We're talking to your clients and you don't even know it.




Exactly.

My clients are smart enough to recognize one, in my experience.


That was a very snappy comeback, Joe. I'd rather be open about it then to be one in disguise, like you.