[quote=noggin]Mikebutler- I asked very simple questions and you couldn't answer them so you did what any 6th grader does you attacked my viewpoint. I will repeat my questions again so that you can ignore them again. Why was Mike Brown a good hire? Was it is glowing resume? Was it his experience??? BTW, I voted for both Reagan and Bush.......[/quote]

Let's see, after every ranting post you've made has been proved to be incorrect, you now think it's important to probe the resume of the former head of FEMA.

This may be news to you but patronage has been a part of our political system forever. For whatever holes you think there may or may not have been in Brown's background the fact is he handled 3 hurricanes in the span of 6 weeks or so in Florida last year w/o major problems.

Katrina turned into a nightmare and the question should be what caused the response to the storms to be so different between Florida and LA. The answer's pretty clear to me. Brown was in both situations, but in Florida the local officials weren't clueless as they were in LA.

Say, when we borrowed those Mexican Blackhawks, did the pilots speak English?

Indyone: you’re correct, Mitch Daniels is not the current budget

director…HE WAS!



The Bush Administration



Mitch Daniels, Jr.

DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET

(2001-2002)



Corporate Connections:

Eli Lilly; Citigroup; General Electric; Merck





Personal Finances



Mitch Daniels served as director of the Office of Management and Budget

from 2001 to 2002, when he stepped down to run for governor of

Indiana. He is a former senior vice president at Eli Lilly, one of the world’s

leading pharmaceutical companies. At the time of his appointment as

OMB director, Daniels also had stock holdings of between $50,000 and

$100,000 in Citigroup, General Electric and another drug company,

Merck.



My mistake for not editing more accurately. No question, any one of us

can hold our own in a debate. This is better than Hannity & Colmes.



Never the less, my point is that the Bush administration has had its share

of questionable dealings and I, as an American, have every right to

question, comment and hold him accountable.



I admit that I am less than satisfied with the whole thing even though I

admit that he has been dealt a pretty tough hand (stock market bubble,

9/11, Katrina, etc).   

"Never the less, my point is that the Bush administration has had its share of questionable dealings and I, as an American, have every right to question, comment and hold him accountable. "

Fair enough, and I'm sure you'd agree that we have every right to point out where we think that with the proper knowledge of the facts the events are far less "questionable" than you might suggest.

[quote=mikebutler222]

"Never the less, my point is that the Bush administration has had its share of questionable dealings and I, as an American, have every right to question, comment and hold him accountable. "

Fair enough, and I'm sure you'd agree that we have every right to point out where we think that with the proper knowledge of the facts the events are far less "questionable" than you might suggest.

[/quote]

Mike Brown and President Bush took control of the situation on August 29th by declaring federal jurisdiction upon naming Katrina a federal disaster.

http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18478

Any questions?

[quote=menotellname][quote=mikebutler222]

"Never the less, my point is that the Bush administration has had its share of questionable dealings and I, as an American, have every right to question, comment and hold him accountable. "

Fair enough, and I'm sure you'd agree that we have every right to point out where we think that with the proper knowledge of the facts the events are far less "questionable" than you might suggest.

[/quote]

Mike Brown and President Bush took control of the situation on August 29th by declaring federal jurisdiction upon naming Katrina a federal disaster.

http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18478

Any questions?

[/quote]

Just one, just how clueless are you? READ YOUR OWN LINK, it says the the declaraion JUST BEGINS FUNDING. PAYING THE LOCALS FOR COSTS ATTRIBUTED TO THE STORM AND EVACUATION. It DOES NOT SAY that the Feds have taken over on the ground.

Either you're a fool or a liar. Then again, you're probably both.

But their religious faith has been strengthened, eight in 10 said. And 90 percent were hopeful about the future.

The evacuees polled, all from New Orleans or elsewhere in Louisiana, also said:

_More than half of their homes were destroyed. Two-thirds were renting their homes and a third were owners.

_Almost three-fourths don't have insurance to cover their losses.

_More than half didn't have health insurance, a usable credit card with them, or a bank or checking account from which they could withdraw money.

_Nearly three-fourths heard before the hurricane hit that an evacuation order had been given; a fourth did not.

_More than two-thirds said they didn't evacuate because they didn't realize how bad the storm and its aftermath would be. More than half — 55 percent — said one factor was that they didn't have a car or a way to leave.

A responsible bunch of Americans who love god. :)

[quote=mikebutler222][quote=menotellname][quote=mikebutler222]

"Never the less, my point is that the Bush administration has had its share of questionable dealings and I, as an American, have every right to question, comment and hold him accountable. "

Fair enough, and I'm sure you'd agree that we have every right to point out where we think that with the proper knowledge of the facts the events are far less "questionable" than you might suggest.

[/quote]

Mike Brown and President Bush took control of the situation on August 29th by declaring federal jurisdiction upon naming Katrina a federal disaster.

http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18478

Any questions?

[/quote]

Just one, just how clueless are you? READ YOUR OWN LINK, it says the the declaraion JUST BEGINS FUNDING. PAYING THE LOCALS FOR COSTS ATTRIBUTED TO THE STORM AND EVACUATION. It DOES NOT SAY that the Feds have taken over on the ground.

Either you're a fool or a liar. Then again, you're probably both.

[/quote]

Obviously you didn't read the link.  I will break it down for you, Mike.  Federal emergency declared on 8/27.  Then the TITLE OF THE PRESS RELEASE FROM FEMA says "President Declares Major Disaster For Louisiana".  The President declared this a federal disaster.  That means the feds are in charge (see below).

Any questions?

****************************************************

President Declares Major Disaster For Louisiana

Release Date: August 29, 2005
Release Number: HQ-05-179

» More Information on Louisiana Hurricane Katrina

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The head of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security’s Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) announced today that federal disaster aid has been made available to the state of Louisiana to help residents and communities recover from the damages and losses incurred from the onslaught of Hurricane Katrina.

Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary of Homeland Security for Emergency Preparedness and Response, said the assistance was authorized under a major disaster declaration issued for the state by President Bush. The declaration covers damage to private and public property from Hurricane Katrina that occurred beginning August 29, 2005 and continuing.

The action follows the President's emergency declaration of August 27 that released federal resources to help meet immediate life-saving and life-sustaining human needs and protecting property in addition to other emergency protective measures. Debris removal and emergency services to assist law enforcement with evacuations and establishment of shelters are also eligible costs covered by the federal funding.

****************************************************

Better still...for a dumbass like you, Mike.  The last paragraph reads:

"

FEMA prepares the nation for all hazards and manages federal response and recovery efforts following any national incident. FEMA also initiates mitigation activities, trains first responders, works with state and local emergency managers, and manages the National Flood Insurance Program and the U.S. Fire Administration. FEMA became part of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security on March 1, 2003."

****************************************************

Any questions as to who had responsibility and who dropped the ball?  Remember...this is from the FEMA website and your boy made FEMA part of his pet project...the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.

Your serve...

[quote=menotellname][quote=mikebutler222][quote=menotellname][quote=mikebutler222]

"Never the less, my point is that the Bush administration has had its share of questionable dealings and I, as an American, have every right to question, comment and hold him accountable. "

Fair enough, and I'm sure you'd agree that we have every right to point out where we think that with the proper knowledge of the facts the events are far less "questionable" than you might suggest.

[/quote]

Mike Brown and President Bush took control of the situation on August 29th by declaring federal jurisdiction upon naming Katrina a federal disaster.

http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18478

Any questions?

[/quote]

Just one, just how clueless are you? READ YOUR OWN LINK, it says the the declaraion JUST BEGINS FUNDING. PAYING THE LOCALS FOR COSTS ATTRIBUTED TO THE STORM AND EVACUATION. It DOES NOT SAY that the Feds have taken over on the ground.

Either you're a fool or a liar. Then again, you're probably both.

[/quote]

Obviously you didn't read the link.  I will break it down for you, Mike.  Federal emergency declared on 8/27.  Then the TITLE OF THE PRESS RELEASE FROM FEMA says "President Declares Major Disaster For Louisiana".  The President declared this a federal disaster.  That means the feds are in charge (see below).

Any questions?

****************************************************

President Declares Major Disaster For Louisiana

Release Date: August 29, 2005
Release Number: HQ-05-179

» More Information on Louisiana Hurricane Katrina

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The head of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security’s Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) announced today that federal disaster aid has been made available to the state of Louisiana to help residents and communities recover from the damages and losses incurred from the onslaught of Hurricane Katrina.

Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary of Homeland Security for Emergency Preparedness and Response, said the assistance was authorized under a major disaster declaration issued for the state by President Bush. The declaration covers damage to private and public property from Hurricane Katrina that occurred beginning August 29, 2005 and continuing.

The action follows the President's emergency declaration of August 27 that released federal resources to help meet immediate life-saving and life-sustaining human needs and protecting property in addition to other emergency protective measures. Debris removal and emergency services to assist law enforcement with evacuations and establishment of shelters are also eligible costs covered by the federal funding.

****************************************************

Better still...for a dumbass like you, Mike.  The last paragraph reads:

"

FEMA prepares the nation for all hazards and manages federal response and recovery efforts following any national incident. FEMA also initiates mitigation activities, trains first responders, works with state and local emergency managers, and manages the National Flood Insurance Program and the U.S. Fire Administration. FEMA became part of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security on March 1, 2003."

****************************************************

Any questions as to who had responsibility and who dropped the ball?  Remember...this is from the FEMA website and your boy made FEMA part of his pet project...the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.

Your serve...

[/quote]

Why don't you do us a favor and just be WRONG on one thread instead of three? There’s no reason for me to have to correct you three times.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 That final paragraph (which you edited) simply states what FEMA does. You'll find that paragraph on every FEMA news release. When the Feds declare a state of emergency that simply means the locals can apply for federal funds for evacuation and disaster costs. It does NOT mean the Feds have assumed control. Under our Federal system the Feds don't even have the right under law to unilaterally assume control. They have to be requested by local authorities.

[quote=mikebutler222]

Why don't you do us a favor and just be WRONG on one thread instead of three? There’s no reason for me to have to correct you three times.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 That final paragraph (which you edited) simply states what FEMA does. You'll find that paragraph on every FEMA news release. When the Feds declare a state of emergency that simply means the locals can apply for federal funds for evacuation and disaster costs. It does NOT mean the Feds have assumed control. Under our Federal system the Feds don't even have the right under law to unilaterally assume control. They have to be requested by local authorities.[/quote]

How sad that you would accuse me of editing the final paragraph.  I will post the ENTIRE notice and the link with out editing the font colors.

See below:

">» Advanced Search

President Declares Major Disaster For Louisiana

Release Date: August 29, 2005
Release Number: HQ-05-179

» More Information on Louisiana Hurricane Katrina

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The head of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security’s Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) announced today that federal disaster aid has been made available to the state of Louisiana to help residents and communities recover from the damages and losses incurred from the onslaught of Hurricane Katrina.

Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary of Homeland Security for Emergency Preparedness and Response, said the assistance was authorized under a major disaster declaration issued for the state by President Bush. The declaration covers damage to private and public property from Hurricane Katrina that occurred beginning August 29, 2005 and continuing.

The action follows the President's emergency declaration of August 27 that released federal resources to help meet immediate life-saving and life-sustaining human needs and protecting property in addition to other emergency protective measures. Debris removal and emergency services to assist law enforcement with evacuations and establishment of shelters are also eligible costs covered by the federal funding.

Affected individuals and business owners in the parishes of Acadia, Ascension, Assumption, Calcasieu, Cameron, East Baton Rouge, East Feliciana, Iberia, Iberville, Jefferson, Jefferson Davis, Lafayette, Lafourche, Livingston, Orleans, Plaquemines, Pointe Coupee, St. Bernard, St. Charles, St. Helena, St. James, St. John, St. Mary, St. Martin, St. Tammany, Tangipahoa, Terrebonne, Vermilion, Washington, West Baton Rouge, and West Feliciana are eligible for aid.

The assistance will be coordinated by FEMA and can include grants to help pay for temporary housing, home repairs and other serious disaster-related expenses. Low-interest loans from the U.S. Small Business Administration also will be available to cover residential and business losses not fully compensated by insurance.

Federal funding is available to State and eligible local government in the parishes of Acadia, Ascension, Assumption, Calcasieu, Cameron, East Baton Rouge, East Feliciana, Iberia, Iberville, Jefferson, Jefferson Davis, Lafayette, Lafourche, Livingston, Orleans, Plaquemines, Pointe Coupee, St. Bernard, St. Charles, St. Helena, St. James, St. John, St. Mary, St. Martin, St. Tammany, Tangipahoa, Terrebonne, Vermilion, Washington, West Baton Rouge, and West Feliciana for debris removal and emergency protective measures, including direct Federal assistance.

Federal funding also is available to State and eligible local governments in the parishes of Allen, Avoyelles, Beauregard, Bienville, Bossier, Caddo, Caldwell, Catahoula, Claiborne, Concordia, Desoto, East Carroll, Evangeline, Franklin, Grant, Jackson, LaSalle, Lincoln, Madison, Morehouse, Natchitoches, Ouachita, Rapides, Red River, Richland, Sabine, St. Landry, Tensas, Union, Vernon, Webster, West Carroll, and Winn for emergency protective measures, including direct Federal assistance.

For a period of up to 72 hours, federal funding is available at 100 percent of the total eligible costs for emergency protective measures, including direct federal assistance. The 72-hour period funding at 100 percent excludes debris removal.

Funding, on a cost-sharing basis, is available for hazard mitigation measures in St. Mary, St. Tammany and Ouachita parishes. Damage surveys are continuing and more counties and additional forms of assistance may be designated after the assessments are completed.

Brown named William Lokey of FEMA to coordinate the federal relief effort.

Lokey encouraged those who sustained losses in the designated counties to begin the disaster application process by registering online at www.fema.gov or by calling 1-800-621-FEMA (3362), or 1-800-462-7585 (TTY) for the hearing and speech impaired. The toll-free telephone numbers will be available 24 hours seven days a week until further notice.

Registering on-line is encouraged due to the possibility of high call volume. If registering by phone, owners of commercial properties and residents with only minor losses are urged to wait a few days before calling so those whose homes were destroyed or heavily damaged can be served first. Storm victims with insurance coverage should contact their insurance company or agent before calling to report losses and, if necessary, to request an advance or partial payment of their settlement.

FEMA prepares the nation for all hazards and manages federal response and recovery efforts following any national incident. FEMA also initiates mitigation activities, trains first responders, works with state and local emergency managers, and manages the National Flood Insurance Program and the U.S. Fire Administration. FEMA became part of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security on March 1, 2003.

Mike,

What does that last paragraph say again?

Hey dont tell me Mike Brown was not qualified, he was an Arabian Horse expert.

Not even an American hourse expert...

[quote=menotellname]

Mike,

What does that last paragraph say again?

[/quote]

Let's see if we can cut through all your obfuscation; are you really saying that Bush's declaration of emergency before the hurricane struck meant that the Feds had taken control of the evacuation and relief efforts away from the locals?<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Also, is this finally the thread you’ve decided to post your errors on this subject to? I’m not going to bother to correct you on all three threads that you’ve posted your bogus theory on.

[quote=mikebutler222]

Let's see if we can cut through all your obfuscation; are you really saying that Bush's declaration of emergency before the hurricane struck meant that the Feds had taken control of the evacuation and relief efforts away from the locals?<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Also, is this finally the thread you’ve decided to post your errors on this subject to? I’m not going to bother to correct you on all three threads that you’ve posted your bogus theory on.

[/quote]

Hmmmm...

Well, since you offered no argument, and you can't refute the FEMA document (see above)...I accept your last post as a tacit surrender.

[quote=menotellname][quote=mikebutler222]

Let's see if we can cut through all your obfuscation; are you really saying that Bush's declaration of emergency before the hurricane struck meant that the Feds had taken control of the evacuation and relief efforts away from the locals?<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Also, is this finally the thread you’ve decided to post your errors on this subject to? I’m not going to bother to correct you on all three threads that you’ve posted your bogus theory on.

[/quote]

Hmmmm...

Well, since you offered no argument, and you can't refute the FEMA document (see above)...I accept your last post as a tacit surrender.

[/quote]

Could you point out for us specifically where the FEMA document says the Feds have the authority to assume control of anything without requests from local authorities? Hint; it doesn't.

As I pointed out to you before it simply says that Federal funds are thereby available to state and local authorities. Posting a document and asserting, as you did, that it says things it doesn't isn't really a good strategy to win a debate.

Here's another hint for menotellthetruth/sonny

SUBCHAPTER IV--MAJOR DISASTER ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

<?:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" />

§ 5170. PROCEDURE FOR DECLARATION {Sec. 401}

All requests for a declaration by the President that a major disaster exists shall be made by the Governor of the affected State. Such a request shall be based on a finding that the disaster is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and the affected local governments and that Federal assistance is necessary. As part of such request, and as a prerequisite to major disaster assistance under this Act, the Governor shall take appropriate response action under State law and direct execution of the State's emergency plan. The Governor shall furnish information on the nature and amount of State and local resources which have been or will be committed to alleviating the results of the disaster, and shall certify that, for the current disaster, State and local government obligations and expenditures (of which State commitments must be a significant proportion) will comply with all applicable cost-sharing requirements of this Act. Based on the request of a Governor under this section, the President may declare under this Act that a major disaster or emergency exists.

(Pub. L. 93-288, title IV, § 401, as added Pub. L. 100-707, title I, § 106(a)(3), Nov. 23, 1988, 102 Stat. 4696.)

Now, where does it say the Feds assume control after the pres declares and emergency?

You might also want to read the National Reponse Plan.

http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/NRPbaseplan.pdf

Start with Section III, Roles and Responsibilities, it will remind you of how a FEDERAL system of government works.

[quote=mikebutler222]

Could you point out for us specifically where the FEMA document says the Feds have the authority to assume control of anything without requests from local authorities? Hint; it doesn't.

As I pointed out to you before it simply says that Federal funds are thereby available to state and local authorities. Posting a document and asserting, as you did, that it says things it doesn't isn't really a good strategy to win a debate.

[/quote]

Your response is implying that the states didn't ask.  Do you think they sat there for days (and weeks) without asking or do you think that was FEMA's response?

Hint:  The feds are in control.

[quote=menotellname][quote=mikebutler222]

Could you point out for us specifically where the FEMA document says the Feds have the authority to assume control of anything without requests from local authorities? Hint; it doesn't.

As I pointed out to you before it simply says that Federal funds are thereby available to state and local authorities. Posting a document and asserting, as you did, that it says things it doesn't isn't really a good strategy to win a debate.

[/quote]

Your response is implying that the states didn't ask.  Do you think they sat there for days (and weeks) without asking or do you think that was FEMA's response?

Hint:  The feds are in control.

[/quote]

Are you now backing away from your claim (since then proved to be incorrect) that a declaration of emergency means the Feds have taken charge?

Thanks I have the PDF version here:

http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/NRP_FactSheet_2005. pdf

Checking the fact sheet I find:

What it does for America

The National Response Plan establishes a comprehensive all-hazards approach to enhance the ability of the United States to manage domestic incidents.  The Plan incorporates best practices and procedures from incident management disciplines—homeland security, emergency management, law enforcement, firefighting, public works, public health, responder and recovery worker health and safety, emergency medical services, and the private sector—and integrates them into a unified structure.  It forms the basis of how federal departments and agencies will work together and how the federal government will coordinate with state, local, and tribal governments and the private sector during incidents.  It establishes protocols to help protect the nation from terrorist attacks and other natural and manmade hazards; save lives; protect public health, safety, property, and the environment; and reduces adverse psychological consequences and disruptions to the American way of life.

Plan Organization

Base Plan: Concept of Operations, Coordinating Structures, Roles and Responsibilities, Definitions, etc.

Appendixes: Glossary, Acronyms, Authorities, and Compendium of National Interagency Plans

Emergency Support Function Annexes: Groups capabilities & resources into functions that are most likely needed during an incident (e.g., Transportation, Firefighting, Mass Care, etc.)

Support Annexes: Describes common processes and specific administrative requirements (e.g., Public Affairs, Financial Management, Worker Safety & Health, etc.)

Incident Annexes: Outlines core procedures, roles and responsibilities for specific contingencies (e.g., Bio, Radiological, Cyber, HAZMAT Spills)

National Response Plan Incident Management Priorities

Emphasis on Local Response

Multi-agency Coordination Structure

New Coordinating Features  in the National Response Plan

Homeland Security Operations Center (HSOC): The HSOC serves as the primary national level multi-agency hub for domestic situational awareness and operational coordination.  The HSOC also includes DHS components, such as the National Infrastructure Coordinating Center (NICC), which has primary responsibility for coordinating communications with the Nation’s critical infrastructure during an incident.

National Response Coordination Center (NRCC): The NRCC, a functional component of the HSOC, is a multi-agency center that provides overall federal response coordination.

Regional Response Coordination Center (RRCC): At the regional level, the RRCC coordinates regional response efforts and implements local federal program support until a Joint Field Office is established.

Interagency Incident Management Group (IIMG): A tailored group of senior federal interagency experts who provide strategic advice to the Secretary of Homeland Security during an actual or potential Incident of National Significance.

Joint Field Office (JFO): A temporary federal facility established locally to provide a central point to coordinate resources in support of state, local, and tribal authorities.

Principal Federal Official (PFO): A PFO may be designated by the Secretary of Homeland Security during a potential or actual Incident of National Significance. While individual federal officials retain their authorities pertaining to specific aspects of incident management, the PFO works in conjunction with these officials to coordinate overall federal incident management efforts.

Maintaining the National Response Plan

****************************************************

Looks like the feds failed on all levels.

[quote=menotellname]

Looks like the feds failed on all levels.

[/quote]

Looks like you still can't admit your error....