Mike-

I haven’t the thread from end to end but I’ve yet to see where you ‘cleaned Indy’s clock’.  I’ll let you know if I notice that.

Frequently I agree with your positions and will support you when I do.  This is not one of those times.

I did extensive ‘research’ just like you did.  I also ended up pulling the trigger and going indy after 14 years of living in the wirehouse world.  I’ve yet to find a product or service that I was ‘missing’.  In fact, I found a few that I couldn’t easily get before because wirehouse compliance folks are so fearful and controlling they won’t let them into the system.

This in addition to having complete freedom to work when I want and brand my business as I wish.  Oh and yah the payout doesn’t suck either.  I also get paid the full commish when I put money in a VA. Have you ‘researched’ that issue yet?

There’s a big difference between doing ‘research’ and living the life, bro.  You’ve overstepped your bounds on this one.

Oh-and you’ve yet to name a single or product you can get that I can’t…or at least anything that I actually care about.

Well, Mikey, you just make it too irresistable to respond, so here I go again...just understand that I get busy during the day, so I may not always have a chance to respond to you in a timely fashion.  Apparently, you have all the time in the world to respond as is indicated by your 957 (and counting) posts since September 13th.  I'll try to cram in a couple of quick responses while I'm taking a break for lunch...the rest will just have to wait for now.

You've somehow come to the conclusion that I'm insecure about something, but you know what they say about the accuser.  While it's possible to have doubts about some things in life, you can put your concerns about my business to rest.  I am not the least bit insecure about my talents or my platform, as both are working just fine for me.  I'm not bleeding any accounts...not one...since I went independent last summer.  From what I understand from someone closer to the situation at my ex-employer, exactly one account worth approximately $80,000 left the bank since last summer and did not move over to me (they didn't go to Morgan Stanley either).  During my 5+ years at my former employer, I lost 3-4 clients, and only one that I cared about, which went to his business partner's son-in-law.  So you see, I don't have a history of losing and I'm not insecure about that changing.  I take good care of my client base, and they are very loyal, so I'm not insecure about that.  If I do happen to lose a client here or there, I won't dwell on it, as there is always plenty in the pipeline to keep me fed.  I will simply try to determine what caused the loss, learn from it and move forward.  You are mistaking my distaste for your personality type as "insecurity" and from what I can see with the changes at your employer, you have more to be insecure about that I, so put the insecurity argument to rest.

As far as the "restaurant vs. grocery store" analogy goes, I don't read it at all the way you do.  You made immediate assumptions and took it as a slight.  I read it again, and I still see it as instead indicating a difference in style.  As an indy, you must do many more things for yourself, whereas, at a wirehouse, someone in the back office (kitchen) has done a lot of the legwork fo you.  Sure, the grocery store may have a deli, but in general, an indy usually has more work (but less cost) involved to get food on the table.  Where you got the idea that I was insinuating that wirehouse reps are limited is beyond me...methinks you are a bit defensive, as I have plenty of respect for many of the producers I know on the wireside...I just don't have any for your type.

As far as why people stay in the wirehouse, I'll think what I think and you can think what you think.  Some, many, more than a few...it's all semantics.  You take a poll of one and profess to speak for the masses.  All I said is what I think and I am entitled to that opinion.  I'd trust is a lot more than I would yours.  As far as whether or not you're more qualified than I or others to answer questions about the differences between wirehouse and independent platforms is your opinion.  You have no idea how much or how little due diligence I've done on wirehouses and for you to just assume superior knowledge is again, showing your typical arrogance.

...and finally, pray tell what facts am I making up?  I think you're mistaking my opinions for fact because you are used to portraying your opinions as such.  Again, your arrogance betrays you.

A word to the wise, repeating something false again and again won't make it true, no matter how hard you try to convince yourself.  Keep it coming...although you might try to get a little work in between posts this afternoon...I'll be busy for the next few hours taking care of my clients.

[quote=joedabrkr]<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Mike-

I haven't the thread from end to end but I've yet to see where you 'cleaned Indy's clock'.  I'll let you know if I notice that.

[/quote]

You might want to review the exchange RE: SAM and what it can/can’t do. Then again, coming from your perspective, a newly coined indy, I can understand your POV.

[quote=joedabrkr]

I did extensive 'research' just like you did.  I also ended up pulling the trigger and going indy after 14 years of living in the wirehouse world.  I've yet to find a product or service that I was 'missing'. 

[/quote]

Who puts together your collars, writes your advanced estate planning, provides one-off structured products, gets you access to thousands of SMA well below the $100K  minimums, gets you access to equity syndicate, exchange funds, pure hedge fund plays, corporate and individual financing options, just to name a few items?

It’s one thing to say you don’t use them in your practice; it’s another to say you have them as you would at a wirehouse.

[quote=joedabrkr]

In fact, I found a few that I couldn't easily get before because wirehouse compliance folks are so fearful and controlling they won't let them into the system.

[/quote]

Like what, Joe?

[quote=joedabrkr]

This in addition to having complete freedom to work when I want and brand my business as I wish. 

[/quote]

Like I said in the original post, there are plenty of compelling reasons to go indy. You’ve just named a couple. The original post, otoh, named one that was fictional.

[quote=joedabrkr]

Oh and yah the payout doesn't suck either.  I also get paid the full commish when I put money in a VA. Have you 'researched' that issue yet?

[/quote]

Yep. Wireshouses (at least the one’s I’m familiar with) cut commission rates on VA products so that every VA pays out at the same rate. Otherwise you’d get oaid more to sell this VA than that. It wouldn’t bother me to keep that dough, otoh, I do see the point in leveling the playing field in a product array.

[quote=joedabrkr]

There's a big difference between doing 'research' and living the life, bro.  You've overstepped your bounds on this one.

[/quote]

You seem to have forgotten that I WAS with an Indy firm. Not only worked with one, had Series 24 responsibility over other brokers there. I’ve lived the life, bro.

[quote=joedabrkr]

Oh-and you've yet to name a single or product you can get that I can't.....or at least anything that I actually care about.
[/quote]

That last caveat is the one people always fall back one. It’s fine to say you don’t want what you don’t have, it’s another to say, as the post that started this conversation did, that you have a wider array of products and services than a wirehouse. It was that analogy that caused me to respond.

[quote=Indyone] <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Well, Mikey, you just make it too irresistable to respond,

Why blame me if you feel pressure? Is nothing your fault or under your control?

 Apparently, you have all the time in the world to respond as is indicated by your 957 (and counting) posts since September 13th<?:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /> . 

Obviously I make better use of my time, and just as obviously you feel the need to control….  Perhaps you need some admin assistance….or time management skills, or both.

You've somehow come to the conclusion that I'm insecure about something,

You were the one with the chip on the shoulder from the get-go. It was you that agreed to a laughable analogy, felt the need to denigrate the reasons people might chose to stay at a wirehouse, chuckle at the idea that you have competition…seems to me for all your complaining about a condescending tone, that’s what you adopted from jump street.

I’ll remind you, again, I didn’t have anything to say to you until you jumped, both feet, into agreeing to that foolish “supermarket” analogy.

I'm not bleeding any accounts...not one...since I went independent last summer. 

Wait a sec, after all this you’ve been Indy just under a year? Could I ask where you were before that?

  If I do happen to lose a client here or there, I won't dwell on it, as there is always plenty in the pipeline to keep me fed. 

Nobody had anything to say about your ability to hold onto accounts until you made this snarky comment; I'm sure you've got some products and strategies that my clients are clamoring for...that's why I lose so many to Morgan Stanley. Now, until then there hadn’t been a comment made about losing accounts to anyone, but since you opened that door, taking accounts from a one-man Indy is as easy as taking accounts gets.

You are mistaking my distaste for your personality type as "insecurity" and from what I can see with the changes at your employer, you have more to be insecure about that I, so put the insecurity argument to rest.

Ahhh, so witty. Here’s a clue, pal, it ain’t insecurity that allows you to pull up stakes and move wherever you want, whenever you want. Quite the contrary.

Now, tough guy, I’ll make the same offer to you I’ve made to every other pissant that wanted to make an issue of my loss of anonymity by inviting you to post YOUR U-4. If you lack the moral courage to do that, you haven’t the courage to proceed down that path. I’ve got little time for losers who think “hey, you’ve changed jobs” is some sort of trump card when their debating skills left them in a deficit position.

OTOH, you insecurity evidenced itself with your first, snarky post directed at me.

As far as the "restaurant vs. grocery store" analogy goes, I don't read it at all the way you do.  You made immediate assumptions and took it as a slight. 

There’s no other way to take it. It isn’t about “style” it’s about someone who’s never even worked at a wirehouse assuming people are “given” things from a limited menu. The original writer when on to say that’s EXACTLY what she intended to say. BTW, I suggest you hire an admin assistant if you think there’s “more work”.

As far as why people stay in the wirehouse, I'll think what I think and you can think what you think.

Right, and there’s no self-aggrandizement in your view of your own “spirit” and no condescension directed at others who made a different choice. Nah, none at all….

Like I said in the very first post on this subject, a comment you specifically took exception to “There are plenty of compelling reasons to consider going independent, but your example [grocery store example] isn’t one of them.”. Did it need to said clearer that I don’t have a problem with people making specific decisions about what channel’s right for them? Was there ANYTHING even remotely condescending in that post? In fact, I’ll go a step further, I think it was damned polite.

 All I said is what I think and I am entitled to that opinion. 

As I recall I said I thought you had every right to be in error. You even have every right to be a condescending ass in the very same post where you imagine it in others. It’s might be tough for you to imagine, but there are people with more experience than you, more production than you and more assets than you who think they’re in the best possible place for them to be in a wirehouse. They see a large product and service array, subject matter experts on call in every area, technology, a recognizable brand name, admin support, class A office space and they know what it would cost to replace it at the same level.

I have no problem saying people can take the very same decision process and end up in an indy office. It's all about what sort of business they do, who they do it with, where they want to do it. Better yet, I don’t make aspersions to their “spirit” or courage or abilities because they’ve chosen another channel. And after that you continue to whine about arrogance and condescension. It’s actually pretty funny.

You have no idea how much or how little due diligence I've done on wirehouses…

It’s obvious you don’t know what you’re talking about and that you’ve never worked at one.

A word to the wise, repeating something false again and again won't make it true, no matter how hard you try to convince yourself. 

Hmmm. Like when you claimed I wasn’t being honest when I quoted directly AND provided a link to the LPL website? That the sort of thing you’re talking about?

Actually Mike, if I could make a quick correction: You didn’t quote off of LPL’s website.  You quoted off of an Advisors website, who was describing an LPL platform.

A fellow ex-Jones rep said this about going indy: At Edward Jones (or Merrill, or Dean Weaner you fill in the blank) it's like going out to eat at a restaurant. They have a menu for you to choose from, and they'll cook you a nice meal - which you'll pay for. When you're indy you're in the grocery store with your cart looking for items to cook YOURSELF a meal. If you just stand there and wait for someone to put things in your cart you'l starve.

I can't speak for Jones, but you have to be kidding if you think that's what it's like at a wirehouse. To use your analogy, you're shopping at the corner grocery store and most wirehouse guys are shopping at a huge supermarket that feature things you have no access to. There are plenty of compelling reasons to consider going independent, but your example isn’t one of them. <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

That last caveat is the one people always fall back on.....It's another to say as the post that started this conversation did, that you have a wider array of products and services than a wirehouse.

Mike - Where, which part, what sentance did I say that working as an independent that I have a wider variety of products/services?

It's an analogy about eating your own cooking vs going out to eat. It's about saving money by cooking at home (independent).

It's about the level of service & support you get from your back office (or in this case waiters/waitresses) because when you go out to eat (working at wirehouse) that IS what you are paying for.

Working at Jones, my rep was an employee of the firm and she was paid a portion of the commission she earned as payment for her services...right? Well now, as an independent SHE pays a back office for the services she requires of them (she buys only the groceries she needs and cooks for herself).

Lastly, I wasn't attempting to compell anyone to go independent. I was trying to demonstrate the differences between GOING OUT TO EAT & PAYING FOR IT.....vs GOING TO THE GROCERY STORE AND COOKING AT HOME.

Also the part of your analogy that the “guys” didn’t pick up on is: that at the restaurant, you are only allowed to chose what to eat from the offerings on the menu.  The menu is chosen by someone else.  It might be fine food but you are limited in your selection . When you go to the grocery store (in your analogy) you pick your own ingredients, the menu is decided by you and not any one else.  You also need to know how to cook too    Something that you don’t need to know at a restaurant

Some people like to have everything chosen for them, others like to be responsible for making their own decisions. 

Thank you! I have yet to walk into a restaurant and told the chef what he is going to cook for me! (though it might be kind of good for some laughs sometime)

  Aw shucks.   Thanks

I believe that I have the ability to use a third party to set up collars if I can’t get what I want with the public markets, and the same with one-off structured products.  This assuming I was foolish enough to use either of them.  I think they are both overrated.

I could get access to equity syndicate if I wanted.  I don’t use it because there is a built-in conflict of interest between my clients and the interest of the bankers to sell the offering for as high a valuation as possible.  Closed end funds at the offering are just as bad, too, IMHO.

I can get access to at least one exchange fund that I know off the top of my head.  I wouldn’t be surprised if there are more.

I write my own financial plans and I set the fee myself.  If the work is more than I can handle on my own, I can go to other advisors’ with the firm and share the work, or hire an outside expert of my choosing.

Corporate financing and personal non-purpose loans.  Can’t really get access to that.  I’ll let the investment bankers have that for the corporate stuff.  As far as the personal stuff, I think there’s a massive contradiction in telling people you’re going to help them ‘build wealth’ and then you loan them money.  Yeah you can cloak it in all sorts of fancy lingo about “managing both sides of the client’s balance sheet”, but ultimately you’re helping them take on debt.  I can get my clients mortgages if I choose to participate in the program. Personally I don’t think I have any business trying to loan them money for any other purpose.  One day clients will see that for what it is, just another way to try to lock them down to the institution, and it’ll come back and bite MS, UBS, etc.

Yes I forgot you sorta had some ‘indy’ experience.  If I recall it didn’t go too well, in no small part because of a really bad partner.  Any chance that colored your perspective on the whole debate?

Things I couldn’t get that I now have access to?  Lease participation deals.  Non-traded REITS.  Equity Index Annuities(not that I like them), Highmark Asset Allocation Funds, Tax Credit deals.  The list goes on.  Motivated back-office staff.  Top quality technology with FREQUENT updates based upon advisor support.

Hey look, I’m happy with the path I’ve chosen, as apparently are you.  The ‘big lie’ that the wires want you to believe is that my path is a lesser path.  You go ahead and keep believing that, and I’ll keep buildling equity in MY business.

Cheers,

Joe

Mikey sez, "Why blame me if you feel pressure? Is nothing your fault or under your control?"  I have plenty of self-control...I'm just not going to sit quietly while you distort the truth and look down your nose at Indies.

Mikey sez, "Obviously I make better use of my time, and just as obviously you feel the need to control….  Perhaps you need some admin assistance….or time management skills, or both."  With the numbers you're posting on here, I think that it's laughable that you brag about your time management skills.  I have an admin assistant that I brought with me and she's very good, thank you.  My time management skills aren't bad, but they could always be better (this sure has been a waste of time).<?:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O />

Mikey sez, "You were the one with the chip on the shoulder from the get-go. It was you that agreed to a laughable analogy, felt the need to denigrate the reasons people might chose to stay at a wirehouse, chuckle at the idea that you have competition…seems to me for all your complaining about a condescending tone, that’s what you adopted from jump street.

I’ll remind you, again, I didn’t have anything to say to you until you jumped, both feet, into agreeing to that foolish “supermarket” analogy."

WAAAAAAAHHH!!! HE STARTED IT!!!  No, Mikey, I didn't get the chip on my shoulder until you made the following crack (see the BOLD part in particular):

Mikey sez "I can't speak for Jones, but you have to be kidding if you think that's what it's like at a wirehouse. To use your analogy, you're shopping at the corner grocery store and most wirehouse guys are shopping at a huge supermarket that feature things you have no access to. There are plenty of compelling reasons to consider going independent, but your example isn’t one of them."

<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />If you'll go back to the beginning of this thread, I think your jump to a faulty conclusion on Devoted's analogy, and subsequent smart-ass retort was what started this pissing match.  I didn't much care for the "corner grocery" analogy that you were so quick to spout.

Mikey sez "Wait a sec, after all this you’ve been Indy just under a year? Could I ask where you were before that?"  See below, wise guy.

Mikey sez "Now, tough guy, I’ll make the same offer to you I’ve made to every other pissant that wanted to make an issue of my loss of anonymity by inviting you to post YOUR U-4. If you lack the moral courage to do that, you haven’t the courage to proceed down that path. I’ve got little time for losers who think “hey, you’ve changed jobs” is some sort of trump card when their debating skills left them in a deficit position.  OK, ass-wipe, I'm not making an issue of your loss of anonymity here.  I've repeated no more about you (your B/D is Morgan Stanley), than I've said about myself (mine is LPL).  Just because you were careless and got outed by some nameless cretin doesn't mean I'm giving up my anonymity.  I'll give you my work history in round numbers so you'll think twice about assuming I'm just another snot-nosed wannabe who can't run with you.  I graduated college in the 80's, spent two years in public accounting, ten years working for one regional bank, mostly in the trust department as an investment manager and as CFO, 5+ years at another bank as an advisor, and the balance of my career (last summer to present) as an indy advisor with 24 jurisdiction over two offices.  In my spare time, I got my CPA and CFP.  Oh, and I would question as to whether or not my debating skills have left me in a deficit position...you're hardly the captain of the debate team here.

Mikey sez "OTOH, you insecurity evidenced itself with your first, snarky post directed at me."  yep, right after your nice little "corner market" analogy.  You shouldn't start sh*t if you don't want any in response.

MIkey sez "Nobody had anything to say about your ability to hold onto accounts until you made this snarky comment; I'm sure you've got some products and strategies that my clients are clamoring for...that's why I lose so many to Morgan Stanley. Now, until then there hadn’t been a comment made about losing accounts to anyone, but since you opened that door, taking accounts from a one-man Indy is as easy as taking accounts gets."  I think you know why I gave you the business...do we have to re-hash that corner grocery thing again?!!  ...and yes, it's been sooooooo easy for your boys to take accounts from me...I'm just trembling with fear at the thought of it!

Mikey sez "Like I said in the very first post on this subject, a comment you specifically took exception to “There are plenty of compelling reasons to consider going independent, but your example [grocery store example] isn’t one of them.”. Did it need to said clearer that I don’t have a problem with people making specific decisions about what channel’s right for them? Was there ANYTHING even remotely condescending in that post? In fact, I’ll go a step further, I think it was damned polite."  Apparently, you are having selective amnesia about the whole "corner grocery vs. the huge supermarket" thing...gee...that's not condescending, is it?!!

Mikey sez "It’s obvious you don’t know what you’re talking about and that you’ve never worked at one."  I think I do know a thing or two about wirehouses, although you did score ONE point here...I have never worked at a wirehouse, and given my current situation, I would say that it is highly unlikely that I will ever work at a wirehouse.  That said, I don't generally make fun of those who do until they start popping off about corner markets and supermarkets.

Indy sez "A word to the wise, repeating something false again and again won't make it true, no matter how hard you try to convince yourself."

Mikey sez "Hmmm. Like when you claimed I wasn’t being honest when I quoted directly AND provided a link to the LPL website? That the sort of thing you’re talking about?"  Ummm, yep...

Freedomlvr: "Actually Mike, if I could make a quick correction: You didn't quote off of LPL's website.  You quoted off of an Advisors website, who was describing an LPL platform."

I think he just cleaned your "closk".

[quote=FreedomLvr]Actually Mike, if I could make a quick correction: You didn't quote off of LPL's website.  You quoted off of an Advisors website, who was describing an LPL platform.[/quote]

You make a very good point. My error, thanks for pointing it out.

[quote=babbling looney]

Also the part of your analogy that the "guys" didn't pick up on is: that at the restaurant, you are only allowed to chose what to eat from the offerings on the menu.  The menu is chosen by someone else.  It might be fine food but you are limited in your selection . When you go to the grocery store (in your analogy) you pick your own ingredients, the menu is decided by you and not any one else.  You also need to know how to cook too    Something that you don't need to know at a restaurant

[/quote]

Actually BL, that's exactly what I read, and it sure as hell sounded condescending to me, as did DevotedSA Aren't-you-guys-forced-to-sell-wink-wink-no-nod, which was equally insulting.

Then fact is I feel like not only am I at the supermarket, and then cooking my own meals, but I have a larger selection. That's the only point I was trying to make and I' sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings in the process.

[quote=joedabrkr]  As far as the personal stuff, I think there's a massive contradiction in telling people you're going to help them 'build wealth' and then you loan them money. 

[/quote]

I just have to disagree with you on this Joe. Rarely is it in the best interest of a household (or business) to be completely debt-free, therefore both sides of the balance sheet count.

[quote=joedabrkr]

Yes I forgot you sorta had some 'indy' experience.  If I recall it didn't go too well, in no small part because of a really bad partner.  Any chance that colored your perspective on the whole debate?

[/quote]

Well, if I were anti-independent, that would be a fair place to start, but since I'm not, no. If I'm "anti" anything, I'm "anti" listening to people who've never worked at a wirehouse talk about how the other side has things prepared for them or that they have to sell from a "menu" or that people who decide to stay at wirehouses do so based on "fear" of some sort.

[quote=joedabrkr]

Things I couldn't get that I now have access to?  Lease participation deals.  Non-traded REITS.  Equity Index Annuities(not that I like them), Highmark Asset Allocation Funds, Tax Credit deals.  The list goes on.  Motivated back-office staff.  Top quality technology with FREQUENT updates based upon advisor support.

[/quote]

That sounds like UBS was pretty limited. Most everything on your list, aside from index-linked annuities, we have.

[quote=joedabrkr]

Hey look, I'm happy with the path I've chosen, as apparently are you.  The 'big lie' that the wires want you to believe is that my path is a lesser path.  You go ahead and keep believing that, and I'll keep buildling equity in MY business.


[/quote]

Joe, I hope you don't think I feel your path is lesser. I have expressed great respect for you and for BL in the past. While I don't look down on your path, I don't have much time for people who look down on mine, especially if they base it on bogus criteria. People should be free to do they type of business they want with the type of people they want to work with, where they want to work with them. I've never said any different.

As for me, I've seen the various channels, and for what I want to do, with the people I want to work with and the place I want to work with them, I'm thrilled where I am. IF/when there's a platform that allows me to do that elsewhere, I'll consider it. In the mean time  it isn't any sort of "fear" that keeps me where I am.

[quote=Indyone]

 I have plenty of self-control...I'm just not going to sit quietly while you distort the truth and look down your nose at Indies.

[/quote]

Since I never did anything of the sort, it's foolish to continue this. The original post, the one you jumped ugly about, was anything but condescending and it clearly didn't distort the truth. It even included the line “there are many reasons to consider going indy…“. Hardly the sort of thing you’d say if you wanted to twist the knife.

The only distortion was the one I wanted to clean up that suggested that there's a limited "menu" wirehouse guys work with and that they "don't cook" and later that they‘re pressured to sell proprietary solutions. That's simply not the case. As to your attitude that it's "fear" that keeps wirehouse guys in place and a lack of entrepreneurial spirit, that’s your cross to bear.

[quote=mikebutler222]

[quote=joedabrkr]  As far as the personal stuff, I think there’s a massive contradiction in telling people you’re going to help them ‘build wealth’ and then you loan them money. 

[/quote]

I just have to disagree with you on this Joe. Rarely is it in the best interest of a household (or business) to be completely debt-free, therefore both sides of the balance sheet count.

[quote=joedabrkr]

Yes I forgot you sorta had some 'indy' experience.  If I recall it didn't go too well, in no small part because of a really bad partner.  Any chance that colored your perspective on the whole debate?

[/quote]

Well, if I were anti-independent, that would be a fair place to start, but since I'm not, no. If I'm "anti" anything, I'm "anti" listening to people who've never worked at a wirehouse talk about how the other side has things prepared for them or that they have to sell from a "menu" or that people who decide to stay at wirehouses do so based on "fear" of some sort.

[quote=joedabrkr]

Things I couldn't get that I now have access to?  Lease participation deals.  Non-traded REITS.  Equity Index Annuities(not that I like them), Highmark Asset Allocation Funds, Tax Credit deals.  The list goes on.  Motivated back-office staff.  Top quality technology with FREQUENT updates based upon advisor support.

[/quote]

That sounds like UBS was pretty limited. Most everything on your list, aside from index-linked annuities, we have.

[quote=joedabrkr]

Hey look, I'm happy with the path I've chosen, as apparently are you.  The 'big lie' that the wires want you to believe is that my path is a lesser path.  You go ahead and keep believing that, and I'll keep buildling equity in MY business.


[/quote]

Joe, I hope you don't think I feel your path is lesser. I have expressed great respect for you and for BL in the past. While I don't look down on your path, I don't have much time for people who look down on mine, especially if they base it on bogus criteria. People should be free to do they type of business they want with the type of people they want to work with, where they want to work with them. I've never said any different.

As for me, I've seen the various channels, and for what I want to do, with the people I want to work with and the place I want to work with them, I'm thrilled where I am. IF/when there's a platform that allows me to do that elsewhere, I'll consider it. In the mean time  it isn't any sort of "fear" that keeps me where I am.

[quote=joedabrkr]
Mike I never said 'fear' kept you where you are.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

[/quote]

No, you didn't. I was referring to the poster that made a Federal case out of what I saw as a reasonably phrased corrective post of mine. You know, the guy who’s never worked at a wirehouse but knows about “menus”.

[quote=joedabrkr]

  In fact, I believe I said that if you're happy with your chosen path, good for you!

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My sentiments exactly, bro.

[quote=joedabrkr]

As for the statement that 'it is rarely in the best interest of a household to be debt-free'.  Well Mikey, reasonable men can agree to disagree sometimes, right?
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Fair enough 

I have to ask, Mike…and I’m NOT being condescending. When is it not in the best interests of a household to be debt free? Just wondering, always like to hear different point of view.

[quote=Devoted SA]I have to ask, Mike...and I'm NOT being condescending. When is it not in the best interests of a household to be debt free? Just wondering, always like to hear different point of view. [/quote]

When the opportunity cost of paying off a, say 5% mortgage, exceeds the savings.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

"No, you didn't. I was referring to the poster that made a Federal case out of what I saw as a reasonably phrased corrective post of mine. You know, the guy who’s never worked at a wirehouse but knows about “menus”."

I didn't single you out as being fearful to leave either.  I'll always believe that there are those that stay at the wirehouse due to fear of the unknown, including how to work around non-competes and how to run your own business from the administrative side, the fear of whether clients will follow, etc.,etc.,etc.  I didn't say you were necessarily one of them and I couldn't care less if you are or not.

...and I don't consider myself less of a person because I've never worked at a wirehouse.  I know plenty about what's available at most wirehouses, how compensation and benefits work, etc.,etc. to participate in a meaningful discussion about the differences between the road I've chosen and the one you are on.  I've also had experiences that you'll never get at the wirehouse, so get over yourself.

We're not going to agree on this or many subjects, but just keep up the personal attacks if you want to flame this up again...I wouldn't have bothered with you had you not felt the need to sling a little more crap at me in your reply to Joe.