Office condominiums
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I am considering purchasing an office condominium to house my business instead of renting. Do any of you know anything about that ownership format, good or bad?
Joe, do you want to be in the real estate business? You will be if you buy, for better or worse. You will have to deal with tenants and maintenance and myriad other issues. If your business is on auto-pilot and you can allocate the time, then maybe its worthwhile for you. I don't need to tell you its a huge committment of time and capital. Best of luck whatever you decide.
[quote=joedabrkr]I am considering purchasing an office condominium to house my business instead of renting. Do any of you know anything about that ownership format, good or bad? [/quote]
I have a brother in law who did it in Birmingham--wishes he had not. Small law firm--five people.
Good idea at the time, but resale is difficult if demographics change and you no longer want to be where you are nobody else will either.
Plus Joeboy, the reality is that you have not been in the business long enough to know if you're going to make it or not.
I understand that nobody ever knows for certain if they're going to make it--but for an Indy to bite off an office condo in their first five or ten years indicates a basic lack of understanding behind financial planning.
Unlike the previous poster I am assuming you're talking about buying one of the units, not the entire building. If you're thinking of the entire building it's even a dumber idea.
[quote=NASD Newbie]
[quote=joedabrkr]I am considering purchasing an office condominium to house my business instead of renting. Do any of you know anything about that ownership format, good or bad? [/quote]
I have a brother in law who did it in Birmingham--wishes he had not. Small law firm--five people.
Good idea at the time, but resale is difficult if demographics change and you no longer want to be where you are nobody else will either.
Plus Joeboy, the reality is that you have not been in the business long enough to know if you're going to make it or not.
I understand that nobody ever knows for certain if they're going to make it--but for an Indy to bite off an office condo in their first five or ten years indicates a basic lack of understanding behind financial planning.
Unlike the previous poster I am assuming you're talking about buying one of the units, not the entire building. If you're thinking of the entire building it's even a dumber idea.
[/quote]Thank you for your thoughts. In this case some of them are quite useful.
yep, newbie’s right. I read the entire building. That’s what happens when you post BC (before coffee).
There are really two decisions here.
Is this good for your business? Is this a good investment?
Getting either one of these wrong could really mess up your life.
It’s hard to tell without knowing the details. However, do you really want to tie the success of your business to an illiquid asset like this? There is a real possibility that someday you’ll be unable to sell the property in a declining neighborhood. Imagine asking prospects to come to your office “right across the street from Guido’s Adult Video Palace”. Yes, this really happened to one of my clients.
I work from home, but that’s a different situation. Most of my work is done by phone. When I see people it’s at a restaurant, coffeehouse or client location (usually in another city).
Your business location says a lot about your practice. Therefore, I suggest you stay flexible by renting. Just my opinion.
Forget buying an office condo. I've got a doublewide I'll sell ya, real cheap! What you do is rent the lot and buy the doublewide. If, after a while, you don't like the location, simply secure the furniture, unhook the plumbing, and haul the trailer to another location.
What I've got in mind for you is a 1984 Fleetwood "El Grande" model. Needs a little paint, new carpet, some siding, and that blood stain removed but other than that, it's good to go!
Me? I've upgraded to the 1994 Clayton Homes "Coronado" triplewide model. I have a media room, conference room, library, kitchen, waiting area, and a corner office for myself. I've got everything an office of a successful Wall Street broker has, plus mine has wheels on it!
Kinda lets my clients know that I've arrived!
[quote=NASD Newbie]
[quote=joedabrkr]I am considering purchasing an office condominium to house my business instead of renting. Do any of you know anything about that ownership format, good or bad? [/quote]
I have a brother in law who did it in Birmingham--wishes he had not. Small law firm--five people.
Good idea at the time, but resale is difficult if demographics change and you no longer want to be where you are nobody else will either.
Plus Joeboy, the reality is that you have not been in the business long enough to know if you're going to make it or not.
I understand that nobody ever knows for certain if they're going to make it--but for an Indy to bite off an office condo in their first five or ten years indicates a basic lack of understanding behind financial planning.
Unlike the previous poster I am assuming you're talking about buying one of the units, not the entire building. If you're thinking of the entire building it's even a dumber idea.
[/quote]Oh, and your comment about an indy not buying a building for 5 or 10 years exhibits a basic lack of understanding of the indy side of the business....
[quote=joedabrkr]
Oh, and your comment about an indy not buying a building for 5 or 10 years exhibits a basic lack of understanding of the indy side of the business....
[/quote]
Are you saying that you think a guy with a brand new indy practice is exercising good financial planning by purchasing an illiquid asset that he may not be able to afford if his new practice is not as successful as he hopes?
Why do you suppose Morgan Stanley is closing branches? Do you think that a sole proprietor would be more capable of dealing with the downturn in business better than a firm the size of MS?
[quote=NASD Newbie]
[quote=joedabrkr]
Oh, and your comment about an indy not buying a building for 5 or 10 years exhibits a basic lack of understanding of the indy side of the business…
[/quote]
Are you saying that you think a guy with a brand new indy practice is exercising good financial planning by purchasing an illiquid asset that he may not be able to afford if his new practice is not as successful as he hopes?
Why do you suppose Morgan Stanley is closing branches? Do you think that a sole proprietor would be more capable of dealing with the downturn in business better than a firm the size of MS?
[/quote]What downturn in business? ;-)
Have you read the studies about how invidual investors increasingly prefer to work with an independent professional rather than a highly compensated salesman from a large corporation?
Yes, actually, I am suggesting that a sole proprietor is more capable at dealing with a downturn in business. I have a much leaner cost structure to support, and am generally able to respond more quickly due to a change in business circumstances. I don't need to have a national meeting of all the middle-management functionaries like yourself and then have a committe produce a report which then is discussed amongst senior management committees at the gathering in Palm Springs.
[quote=joedabrkr]
Yes, actually, I am suggesting that a sole proprietor is more capable at dealing with a downturn in business. I have a much leaner cost structure to support, and am generally able to respond more quickly due to a change in business circumstances. I don't need to have a national meeting of all the middle-management functionaries like yourself and then have a committe produce a report which then is discussed amongst senior management committees at the gathering in Palm Springs.
[/quote]
Joeboy, if I was able to collect on the wager I would bet a large sum of money that you will be doing something else for a living by the year 2010.
You are not mature enough, focused enough, nor well capitalized enough, to make it through really tough times while also trying to provide for a family, growing children, and all the other very pressing needs for cash flow faced by the American family.
If I was able to collect on the wager I would be willing to bet that you are still posting 30 times/day on this board in 2010.
You know far less about me than you think Newbie. It just bugs you that I call you out when you post your b.s. Probably gets under your skin that I don’t kowtow to your preconcieved notions of wirehouse importance…
[quote=joedabrkr]If I was able to collect on the wager I would be willing to bet that you are still posting 30 times/day on this board in 2010.
You know far less about me than you think Newbie. It just bugs you that I call you out when you post your b.s. Probably gets under your skin that I don't kowtow to your preconcieved notions of wirehouse importance.....
[/quote]
Nah, I keep thinking that a guy who was bright enough to be hired by PaineWebber would be smart enough to know that when you go independent you fixate like a laser on making a success of your new business-- but instead you talk about taking time off to take golf lessons, play with your kids, and the most telling joining a country club and buying a big house on the golf course.
I understand that you might be a child of privilege--or your wife may be--but even a child of privilege would be more prudent when they were starting a new enterprise.
Finally there is your penchant for childish behavior--stupid jokes, the emoticons and so forth.
We all paint a word picture of ourselves and the one you paint of yourself is of an immature man child pretending to be a grown up.
You were unable to make it at one of the nation's premier brokerage firms so you sought the higher payout offered by LPL--but the reality is that it was you not UBS's management structure or compliance departments that cause your failure there, and it will cause your failure again.
Just calling it as I see it Joeboy--perhaps you'll hear me and think back to the summer of 2006 when a guy named NASD Newbie caused you to grow up.
We couldn’t possibly know enough about your property choice, your career situation or your financial situation enough to make an honest recommendation. Anyone who is dumb enough to tell you yes or no without more information is a moron.
Having said that, investing in an office condo has it’s risks and rewards. What is the market like in your area? How difficult is the property to sell and what is the commission structure like on selling a property like this? I’ve considered it and decided against it. Found there were better investments for my money and didn’t like the idea of locking so much into my business.
What are the lease terms you can realistically look at? If reasonable office space is available for 1 year lease terms, I think you’d be silly to buy. But if you can’t find anything for less than a 5 year lease, buying might look a lot more attractive.
Have you taken into consideration that the main condo association may have a large assessment coming? You might have a $20,000 bill coming to fix the parking lot or something - those bills show up with little notice sometimes.
[quote=NASD Newbie]
[quote=joedabrkr]If I was able to collect on the wager I would be willing to bet that you are still posting 30 times/day on this board in 2010.
You know far less about me than you think Newbie. It just bugs you that I call you out when you post your b.s. Probably gets under your skin that I don’t kowtow to your preconcieved notions of wirehouse importance…
[/quote]
Nah, I keep thinking that a guy who was bright enough to be hired by PaineWebber would be smart enough to know that when you go independent you fixate like a laser on making a success of your new business-- but instead you talk about taking time off to take golf lessons, play with your kids, and the most telling joining a country club and buying a big house on the golf course.
I understand that you might be a child of privilege--or your wife may be--but even a child of privilege would be more prudent when they were starting a new enterprise.
Finally there is your penchant for childish behavior--stupid jokes, the emoticons and so forth.
We all paint a word picture of ourselves and the one you paint of yourself is of an immature man child pretending to be a grown up.
You were unable to make it at one of the nation's premier brokerage firms so you sought the higher payout offered by LPL--but the reality is that it was you not UBS's management structure or compliance departments that cause your failure there, and it will cause your failure again.
Just calling it as I see it Joeboy--perhaps you'll hear me and think back to the summer of 2006 when a guy named NASD Newbie caused you to grow up.
[/quote]Newbie my business is doing just fine, thank you! I'm more focussed than you realize. You just can't get past the fact that I live on a golf course and you live in a little rathole in Brooklyn or Alphabet city.
Neither my wife nor I were children of privilege. In fact, every penny we have we earned ourselves either by the sweat of our brow or by risking capital. That's what happens when you spend your life doing PRODUCTIVE work instead of going to NASD committee meetings and "management conferences" in LaJolla and Orlando. Instead of visiting those places on "fake vacations" paid for by my employer(i.e. see above reference to conferences) I paid out of my own pocket to visit them on real vacations.
So far you're the only blowhard on this board who has referred to my behavior as childish. Others call it "a sense of humor". Why don't you look it up in Wikpedia since yours is so clearly underdeveloped?
While I was hardly a shining star at my prior firm, I wasn't in danger of losing my desk either. I was simply extremely unhappy, and that's why I left. For reasons like freedom from conflict of interest, an environment where I could design my own practice and build equity in it, the ability to OWN a business instead of being an empolyee, and yes the ability to take the afternoon off to play golf without some jackarse bureaucrat dropping by my desk the next day to ask where I"d been. All stuff that I expect is far beyond the scope of comprehension for your little narrow bureacratic wage-slave mind.
Personally, I think you should stick to answering questions on the "rookies" thread about how to prepare for the ser 66 and 7 exams. Those are topics about which you seem to actually have some expertise.
But-I know better than to expect that. You'll keep coming back a bad case of athlete's foot.
[quote=Beagle]We couldn’t possibly know enough about your property choice, your career situation or your financial situation enough to make an honest recommendation. Anyone who is dumb enough to tell you yes or no without more information is a moron.
Having said that, investing in an office condo has it’s risks and rewards. What is the market like in your area? How difficult is the property to sell and what is the commission structure like on selling a property like this? I’ve considered it and decided against it. Found there were better investments for my money and didn’t like the idea of locking so much into my business.
What are the lease terms you can realistically look at? If reasonable office space is available for 1 year lease terms, I think you’d be silly to buy. But if you can’t find anything for less than a 5 year lease, buying might look a lot more attractive.
Have you taken into consideration that the main condo association may have a large assessment coming? You might have a $20,000 bill coming to fix the parking lot or something - those bills show up with little notice sometimes.
[/quote]
Thanks for your thoughts. Some of them were pretty helpful!
If you had read my original post, I thought I had made it clear tha tI wasn’t looking for a specific recommendation, rather just any background info folks could offer about this type of ownership format. Especially about the risks involved.
[quote=joedabrkr]
So far you're the only blowhard on this board who has referred to my behavior as childish. Others call it "a sense of humor".
[/quote]
Do you suppose that Steven Wright would consider one of those emoticons to be mature humor?
How about "Elventy Kabillion!" Do you suppose that David Letterman would invite you on his show to make the nation laugh if he were to read that?
How about over on that other website, where you and the other boys salute each other and call each other Private and Sergeant and Colonel--boy that's sure a laugh house. Do you suppose Jay Leno would be able to stop laughing if he were to read what you have to say over there?
[quote=NASD Newbie]
[quote=joedabrkr]
So far you’re the only blowhard on this board who has referred to my behavior as childish. Others call it “a sense of humor”.
[/quote]
Do you suppose that Steven Wright would consider one of those emoticons to be mature humor?
How about "Elventy Kabillion!" Do you suppose that David Letterman would invite you on his show to make the nation laugh if he were to read that?
How about over on that other website, where you and the other boys salute each other and call each other Private and Sergeant and Colonel--boy that's sure a laugh house. Do you suppose Jay Leno would be able to stop laughing if he were to read what you have to say over there?
[/quote]I do not know what Messrs. Wright or Letterman would think. They are, however, two of my favorite comedians. I am surprised you even know who they are. Did your grandkids tell you about them?
As far as the 'other website', it can be a bit harsh over there sometimes. Than again, pikers like you often find the hard truths of the world to be harsh.
As for the emoticons, try to wrap your feeble pea-sized brain around the concept that emoticons add nuance to board postings when you do not have the additional meaning that can be imparted by tone of voice or gestures. Did it work? I don't think so!
By the way-at times you've actually struck me as a reasonably intelligent fellow. I'm surprised you never considered that many of us are spurred to use emoticons even more frequently because IT ANNOYS YOU!
[quote=joedabrkr]
As for the emoticons, try to wrap your feeble pea-sized brain around the concept that emoticons add nuance to board postings when you do not have the additional meaning that can be imparted by tone of voice or gestures. Did it work? I don't think so!
[/quote]
When something is really funny you don't need to prompt a response, you will get it.
Do you suppose that Steven Wright works with an "Applause" sign?
I don't.
By the way, I live three blocks from Carolines in Times Square--if you're ever in there you just might see me.
[quote=NASD Newbie]
[quote=joedabrkr]
As for the emoticons, try to wrap your feeble pea-sized brain around the concept that emoticons add nuance to board postings when you do not have the additional meaning that can be imparted by tone of voice or gestures. Did it work? I don’t think so!
[/quote]
When something is really funny you don't need to prompt a response, you will get it.
Do you suppose that Steven Wright works with an "Applause" sign?
I don't.
By the way, I live three blocks from Carolines in Times Square--if you're ever in there you just might see me.
[/quote]I'll be in town the first week in October. I'll have to make sure to avoid Carolines....