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Mar 20, 2006 3:58 pm

Those of you who replied to my original post a few

weeks ago know that I am still in college yet very

interested in this type of business. -- Also, thanks for

the advice.



My new question is this... with so much talk of

making sales (and I know that if you are on

commission sales are your livelihood) . . . How

much of your time is actually spent coming up with

investment strategies?



Do you pick stocks and create your own value/growth

portfolios or do you use other products more often?



I am currently reading "The Intelligent Investor" (the

value investor's bible i suppose) and just finished

"The Little Book that Beats the Market." These types

of strategies are very interesting to me and I am just

wondering if any of you guys/gals implement them in

your business . . .

Mar 20, 2006 4:31 pm

The short answer is no, in all likelyhood YOU won't.  It just doesn't make sense for most brokers to do that.  Why you ask?



Well when you're starting out you have to spend all your time prospecting, and their is very little time left over.  What is left over you will spend grasping all the nuances of financial planning...i.e how to help exec with their nonqual stock options, Net Unrealized Appreciation, Exchange Funds (not exchange TRADED funds), learning how to understand folks current holdings (not just stocks and bonds, but annuities, UIT's, REITS, and everything else under the sun).


By the time you have a sizeable book, you might want to actually reap some of the rewards for all your hard work, so managed money really where it is at.  Otherwise you will be tied to your book constantly (regardless of what some on here may say).


The CLOSEST I have ever heard is a friend of mine who went to work for 2 BIG producers at MS (combined production about 5 million).  All they do is fee based brokerage of individual stocks, along with selling debt transactionally.  But even then, all they are really doing is whatever MS research tells them to do (otherwise, if you blow someone up, it's your own A**, not the firms).


So don't think you are going to come out of college and start being a professional money manager.  You will be a salesman.  Whether you will be a mutual fund salesman, an SMA salesman, a insurance salesman, or whatever else will be somewhat your choice.  Actually, you will be selling whatever people are buying from you, or you will be out of the business.


Ain't as cool as it seems, huh? 

Mar 20, 2006 5:40 pm

Thanks for the reply BankFC...


I ask because the guy I interviewed with at UBS (who DOES have a sizable book) said that he spends a lot of his time screening and evaluating stocks with a value approach.


I also have a good friend who is a young broker at a bank . . . He does not do as much of his own stock analysis.


I realize that the research you are given is usually paramount to your own research when you are focusing on sales, but again wonder how many of you guys dip into the process as your book grows...


Alas, BankFC, it still IS as cool as it seems. As much as people on here seem to try dissuading others from liking the business (and I'll admit, I haven't actually done it yet), I still think I would enjoy it.


It seems there will be no time to worry about picking stocks, especially early on... As you have shown, there are many other things to worry about.

Mar 20, 2006 5:57 pm

all full service guys care about is churning their client's
accounts.  if you read the forums here....i would say at least
half do not really care about their clients

Mar 20, 2006 6:09 pm

Oh baloney.   If you don't care about your customers, they will figure it out and go elsewhere.  Then you will be out of business.  Most of the regular posters have been in business for over 10 and even 20 years.  You can't stay in business just by churning accounts.


Mar 20, 2006 6:44 pm

I don't think any of us in "this" business are in the business of stock picking. We may come across a stock or two here and there but, what we really do is develop portfolios based upon a person's risk level and goals.



Firms really don't allow you to do your own research. You need to rec. stocks based upon their approvedresearch options. If one does their own research and the clients portfolios blow up like someone mentioned--good luck to you. You'll find out real fast how much your firms stands beside you.



Since your a student of finance, you've heard about EMH. There have been very few documentated cases of individuals beating the market. We sell. Then we follow up with a mountain of paperwork. If one in our business could beat or even come close to the market returns why would they not go to Wall St. and mint millions?   



Fact is, most fund managers can't beat the market. You'll hear about some hot shot every now and then but guess when you hear about them? After they've burnt out in 5 years.



If you want to pick stocksgo to Wall St. with an IVY League MBA in your back pocket and start out as a CFA and work your way up to a PM.

Mar 20, 2006 7:24 pm
Moneytree:

I don't think any of us in "this" business are in the business of stock picking. We may come across a stock or two here and there but, what we really do is develop portfolios based upon a person's risk level and goals.

Firms really don't allow you to do your own research. You need to rec. stocks based upon their approvedresearch options. If one does their own research and the clients portfolios blow up like someone mentioned--good luck to you. You'll find out real fast how much your firms stands beside you.

Since your a student of finance, you've heard about EMH. There have been very few documentated cases of individuals beating the market. We sell. Then we follow up with a mountain of paperwork. If one in our business could beat or even come close to the market returns why would they not go to Wall St. and mint millions?   

Fact is, most fund managers can't beat the market. You'll hear about some hot shot every now and then but guess when you hear about them? After they've burnt out in 5 years.

If you want to pick stocksgo to Wall St. with an IVY League MBA in your back pocket and start out as a CFA and work your way up to a PM.


Thanks Moneytree... this makes sense. Picking stocks is not what I want to do per se, but it does interest me. Managing a client's portfolio and building their wealth through other folks' research suits me just fine.


It seems that if you are a broker for a firm, you basically follow that firms research and analysis... which makes fine sense to me. About being a student of finance... actually I am not, I do plan on beginning an MBA this fall, but my undergrad focus has been in Marketing Communications.


As for the comment by discountbroker, I don't know where that came from but I do know some full service brokers who care about their clients. What makes being a discount broker so alluring?

Mar 20, 2006 8:12 pm

The alluring part for DB is that someone will still pay him a salary even after he flunked out at a real firm....

Mar 20, 2006 8:46 pm

I think you're putting the cart before the horse. This is a process of

learning. Look at my experience for example:



1. Munis, closed-end bond funds, things that are time sensitive and in

limited quantity. (end of year 1)

2. Closed-end bond funds trade below NAV, customers lose 20%.

3. Blue Chip stocks/special situations.

4. Zero-coupon Treasuries (a.k.a.- interest rate call). (end of year 2)

5. Zero-coupon bonds combined with equity funds.

6. More funds, equity and bond. (end of year 3)

7. Bonds funds explode. Govi’s drop by 30% (end of year 4)

8. Cut deal with new brokerage firm.

9. Back to Blue Chip stocks.

10. International funds.

11. International funds blow up, client looses 20%. (end of year 5)

12. Auction Rate Preferreds.

13. Rates keep dropping, should have stayed in zeros.

14. More Blue Chip stocks.

15. Market crashes- clients loose more than 25% in 2 days. (end of year

6)

16. Back to Treasuries.

17. Brokered CDs.

18. Bull market resumes uptrend. Should have stayed in equities.

19. Small cap stocks. (end of year 7)

20. Stop listening to research and firm’s recommendations.

21. Gotta get outta this hole. Learning about market from mentor.

22. Dump all bond mutual funds.

23. Dump all closed-end funds.

24. Back to high beta, technical analysis from mentor.

25. Russian debt crisis and collapse of hedge fund.

26. Internet and Telecom for everyone. (end of year 8)

27. Internet Bubble pops. (Stop-losses came in handy)

28. Market sucks, more closed-end funds.

29. Loss of T&E budget, low production.

30. Market sucks, Mom is in Govis. (end of year 9)

31. Loss of sales assistant, time to cut a deal.

32. Market rebounds.

33. No deal at hand, time to go Indy.

34. Stop talking, walking, quacking like all the other advisors.



Moneytree is full of sh*t. So is Discountbroker and BankFC. This career,

like many others, is a learning process. The doctor must loose a few

patients in the process. I was fortunate enough to find a mentor that

opened my eyes. Some find one earlier than I, others never do.



Find your passion (specialty) and become an expert as early as you can.

The rest will follow. Good Luck.



SKEE

Mar 20, 2006 10:06 pm
discountbroker:

all full service guys care about is churning their client's
accounts.  if you read the forums here....i would say at least
half do not really care about their clients



yah and you discount fellows would SURELY stop clients from churning themselves out of ignorance, right? 

Mar 20, 2006 10:17 pm
skeedaddy:

I think you're putting the cart before the horse. This is a process of

learning. Look at my experience for example:



1. Munis, closed-end bond funds, things that are time sensitive and in

limited quantity. (end of year 1)

2. Closed-end bond funds trade below NAV, customers lose 20%.

3. Blue Chip stocks/special situations.

4. Zero-coupon Treasuries (a.k.a.- interest rate call). (end of year 2)

5. Zero-coupon bonds combined with equity funds.

6. More funds, equity and bond. (end of year 3)

7. Bonds funds explode. Govi’s drop by 30% (end of year 4)

8. Cut deal with new brokerage firm.

9. Back to Blue Chip stocks.

10. International funds.

11. International funds blow up, client looses 20%. (end of year 5)

12. Auction Rate Preferreds.

13. Rates keep dropping, should have stayed in zeros.

14. More Blue Chip stocks.

15. Market crashes- clients loose more than 25% in 2 days. (end of year

6)

16. Back to Treasuries.

17. Brokered CDs.

18. Bull market resumes uptrend. Should have stayed in equities.

19. Small cap stocks. (end of year 7)

20. Stop listening to research and firm’s recommendations.

21. Gotta get outta this hole. Learning about market from mentor.

22. Dump all bond mutual funds.

23. Dump all closed-end funds.

24. Back to high beta, technical analysis from mentor.

25. Russian debt crisis and collapse of hedge fund.

26. Internet and Telecom for everyone. (end of year 8)

27. Internet Bubble pops. (Stop-losses came in handy)

28. Market sucks, more closed-end funds.

29. Loss of T&E budget, low production.

30. Market sucks, Mom is in Govis. (end of year 9)

31. Loss of sales assistant, time to cut a deal.

32. Market rebounds.

33. No deal at hand, time to go Indy.

34. Stop talking, walking, quacking like all the other advisors.



Moneytree is full of sh*t. So is Discountbroker and BankFC. This career,

like many others, is a learning process. The doctor must loose a few

patients in the process. I was fortunate enough to find a mentor that

opened my eyes. Some find one earlier than I, others never do.



Find your passion (specialty) and become an expert as early as you can.

The rest will follow. Good Luck.



SKEE




God Bless...could you ramble any more?  As for me being full of anything, I welcome you to point out where in my post you come to that conclusion.

You, as seen by your post, are a single product pusher, not an advisor who utlilizes many tools based on the individual client.  If I were LloydHarry, or anyone else for that matter, I'd ignore you like the piker you are.

Mar 20, 2006 10:42 pm
skeedaddy:

I think you're putting the cart before the horse. This is a process of

learning. Look at my experience for example:



1. Munis, closed-end bond funds, things that are time sensitive and in

limited quantity. (end of year 1)

2. Closed-end bond funds trade below NAV, customers lose 20%.

3. Blue Chip stocks/special situations.

4. Zero-coupon Treasuries (a.k.a.- interest rate call). (end of year 2)

5. Zero-coupon bonds combined with equity funds.

6. More funds, equity and bond. (end of year 3)

7. Bonds funds explode. Govi’s drop by 30% (end of year 4)

8. Cut deal with new brokerage firm.

9. Back to Blue Chip stocks.

10. International funds.

11. International funds blow up, client looses 20%. (end of year 5)

12. Auction Rate Preferreds.

13. Rates keep dropping, should have stayed in zeros.

14. More Blue Chip stocks.

15. Market crashes- clients loose more than 25% in 2 days. (end of year

6)

16. Back to Treasuries.

17. Brokered CDs.

18. Bull market resumes uptrend. Should have stayed in equities.

19. Small cap stocks. (end of year 7)

20. Stop listening to research and firm’s recommendations.

21. Gotta get outta this hole. Learning about market from mentor.

22. Dump all bond mutual funds.

23. Dump all closed-end funds.

24. Back to high beta, technical analysis from mentor.

25. Russian debt crisis and collapse of hedge fund.

26. Internet and Telecom for everyone. (end of year 8)

27. Internet Bubble pops. (Stop-losses came in handy)

28. Market sucks, more closed-end funds.

29. Loss of T&E budget, low production.

30. Market sucks, Mom is in Govis. (end of year 9)

31. Loss of sales assistant, time to cut a deal.

32. Market rebounds.

33. No deal at hand, time to go Indy.

34. Stop talking, walking, quacking like all the other advisors.



Moneytree is full of sh*t. So is Discountbroker and BankFC. This career,

like many others, is a learning process. The doctor must loose a few

patients in the process. I was fortunate enough to find a mentor that

opened my eyes. Some find one earlier than I, others never do.



Find your passion (specialty) and become an expert as early as you can.

The rest will follow. Good Luck.



SKEE




That's quite a career.



Who needs nobel prize winning research when you can market time your way straight down the toilet?



2. Closed-end bond funds trade below NAV, customers lose 20%8. Cut deal with new brokerage firm.



10. International funds.11. International funds blow up, client looses 20%. (end of year 5)



13. Rates keep dropping, should have stayed in zeros.



15. Market crashes- clients loose more than 25% in 2 days. (end of year



20. Stop listening to research and firm’s recommendations21. Gotta get outta this hole. Learning about market from mentor.



24. Back to high beta, technical analysis from mentor.26. Internet and Telecom for everyone. (end of year 8)27. Internet Bubble pops. 28. Market sucks



29. Loss of T&E budget, low production.31. Loss of sales assistant, time to cut a deal.



Mar 20, 2006 11:06 pm
Moneytree:

Firms really don't allow you to do your own research.

You need to rec. stocks based upon their approvedresearch options. If one

does their own research and the clients portfolios blow up like someone

mentioned--good luck to you. You'll find out real fast how much your firms

stands beside you.

Fact is, most fund managers can't beat the market. You'll hear about some

hot shot every now and then but guess when you hear about them? After

they've burnt out in 5 years.




Absolute B.S. Not a voice of experience. Keep listening to the firm's

research. Wall Street killed more Jew than the Nazis.

Mar 20, 2006 11:11 pm
BankFC:

What is left over you will spend grasping all the

nuances of financial planning...i.e how to help exec with their nonqual stock

options, Net Unrealized Appreciation, Exchange Funds (not exchange

TRADED funds), learning how to understand folks current holdings (not just

stocks and bonds, but annuities, UIT's, REITS, and everything else under the

sun).





Yeah another expert. In my 12 years in the business, I think I know of one

guy that actually did an Exchange Fund trade. "Net Unrealized

Appreciation"...that's a cool term. Did you come up with that one on your

own?

Mar 20, 2006 11:32 pm
discountbroker:

all full service guys care about is churning their client's accounts.  if you read the forums here....i would say at least half do not really care about their clients


Whatever, jackass!  Like the discount guys don't say, "Let me get you set up with a margin account so that you can leverage your assets and do even more $9.95 trades."  How may Schwab clients had to get a a HELOC to cover for the asskicking that they took in their margin account? 

Mar 20, 2006 11:37 pm
skeedaddy:

Absolute B.S. Not a voice of experience. Keep listening to the firm's

research.





Your guess about the time I've been in business mirrors the track record of your career.

Mar 21, 2006 7:46 am
joedabrkr:
discountbroker:

all full service guys care about is churning their client's
accounts.  if you read the forums here....i would say at least
half do not really care about their clients



yah and you discount fellows would SURELY stop clients from churning themselves out of ignorance, right? 





I am just saying that a lot of people on your side of the biz are shady.  Did not mean it as a personal attack. 

For example, lady was a bene of a TOD account.  The full service
broker told her that she had to sell all the stock in the dead person's
account.  Then move the cash to her new account.  Once the
cash was in here account, he  bought all the stocks back. 



As for me.....

I really don't care about my client's.  I'll go ahead and but them
$100,00 k worth of QBID.  I am not required to care about my
client's, only provide them with the correct info when they ask about
complex investment products. 



Full Service is required to do what is best for their client all the
time, not what is best for you wallet.  I just don't fully believe
that most full service brokers have their client's interest ahead of
theirs.  I am sure that most of you are ethical, but some are not
so ethical. 

Mar 21, 2006 9:51 am
skeedaddy:
BankFC:

What is left over you will spend grasping all the
nuances of financial planning...i.e how to help exec with their nonqual stock
options, Net Unrealized Appreciation, Exchange Funds (not exchange
TRADED funds), learning how to understand folks current holdings (not just
stocks and bonds, but annuities, UIT's, REITS, and everything else under the
sun).




Yeah another expert. In my 12 years in the business, I think I know of one
guy that actually did an Exchange Fund trade. "Net Unrealized
Appreciation"...that's a cool term. Did you come up with that one on your
own?


Of course you haven't...you've already laid out your sad career on a previous post.  I wouldn't expect you to know or understand what NUA is or done anything AT ALL beyond your 34 point rant...


At one point you were primarily selling BROKERED CD's!!!  You call yourself a broker? 


You are a cold calling, product pushing piker.  A trained monkey could quote yield. 

Mar 21, 2006 9:55 am


[/quote]

As for me.....
I really don't care about my client's.  I'll go ahead and but them $100,00 k worth of QBID.  I am not required to care about my client's, only provide them with the correct info when they ask about complex investment products. 

[/quote]



I really respect the truthfulness of your post.  I'm sure you'll get flamed for it, but I give it to you, at least you are honest.

Mar 21, 2006 11:05 am
BankFC:

You are a cold calling, product pushing piker.  A trained monkey could quote yield. 





90% of your business is in annuities, and YOU CALL ME a product pusher?



Why don't you go and work on 'net unrealized gains' and other
'nuances'. Doesn't some victim, er, old lady have a CD maturing today?