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Jul 24, 2007 4:43 pm

[quote=mikebutler222]

[quote=BondGuy][quote=mikebutler222][quote=BondGuy][quote=mikebutler222][quote=BondGuy][quote=mikebutler222] <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

No one said "blame Islam". We've all been pretty clear that we're talking about Islamic extremists. Those would be the people who believe their religion calls them to establish the dominance of their religion over all others, to kill non-believers and to fly planes into buildings.

[/quote]

You call them Islamic extremist yet you don't blame Islam? That's a contradiction. [/quote]

Not in the least. I blame RADICAL Islam. For all I know mainstream Islam doesn't advocate killing non-believers and doesn't favor flying planes into buildings.

Again, your burning desire to play down the fanatical religious nature of their motivation makes no sense.

[/quote]

Ok, I'd buy that if there was a such thing as radical Islam. There isn't.[/quote]

As I said in the beginning, and you denied, you don't think these people exist.

[/quote]

Mike are you being purposely contrary or do you have a reading comprehension problem? [/quote]

Neither, I’m being perfectly accurate.

[quote=BondGuy]You in a racist prejudiced way have attached a religion to terrorism. [/quote]

Talk about out-of-the-blue silliness. I haven’t “attached a religion to terrorism”, I’ve accurately stated what  the terrorists THEMSELVES say their motivation is. Why you insist they you’re more accurate than they are about their own motivation remains a mystery.

 [quote=BondGuy]  The religion radical islam doesn't exist just as the religion radical catholicism doesn't exist. [/quote]

Again, why you refuse to acknowledge the Wahhabist strain of Islam, their lust for Shir’a law, the Taliban and Al Qaeda outgrowths of it is simply bizarre.

BTW, there are anti-abortion people who stand outside clinics, and there are anti-abortion people who bomb clinics. You figure there’s no difference there?

Of course there is a difference. Just as there is a difference between Muslims who are peaceful and Muslims who are bombers.

Most of the abortion clinic bombers are Catholic. Those who are not are at the least Christian. So if I'm to understand your thinking Muslims who are bomb in the name of their God are Radical Islamics while Catholics who bomb in the name of their faith are what? Anti- abortionist? Why wouldn't you call them radical Catholics. or, if it's the case , radical Christians? Only muslims get the stigma of the negative attachment? Why is that?

[/quote]

Jul 24, 2007 4:45 pm

Re: Religious Fervor.

Are we REALLY that naive as to believe religiousity?

Do we REALLY think that the driving force behind people is god, other than the one true god; POWER?

Religion is what you use to get poor dumb schmucks to die for you. It has always been such. That you can sit here in the 21st century, after several thousand years of recorded human history and still opine that religious fervency is the heart of our problems is to show that you are "obviously simplistic" in your thinking.

Raise your game or SYPH you!

Jul 24, 2007 4:48 pm

[quote=coolshoos]

If a dirty bomb went off in a major city and killed 50,000, 20 clean A-bombs would go off in the country responsible and the entire country would be dead. Every country knows that. Every terrorist organization knows that.

Huh? This is a joke, or very naiive?

[/quote]

Big talk from the weak set.  If it happened they'd start screaming, "There is no country---we cannot retaliate against a country."

Witness the nonsensical blather about Iraq not having anything to do with September 11th, therefore being off limits in a retaliation for what happened.

It's like a Japanese whiner wailing, "We can't be angry with the United States because of the atom bomb.  Jimmy Doolittle was from California what happened had nothing to do with Texas."

Jul 24, 2007 4:49 pm

[quote=Whomitmayconcer]

Re: Religious Fervor.

Are we REALLY that naive as to believe religiousity?

Do we REALLY think that the driving force behind people is god, other than the one true god; POWER?

Religion is what you use to get poor dumb schmucks to die for you. It has always been such. That you can sit here in the 21st century, after several thousand years of recorded human history and still opine that religious fervency is the heart of our problems is to show that you are "obviously simplistic" in your thinking.

Raise your game or SYPH you!

[/quote]

Wow, I thought I'd never see the day.

I agree with you. Now if we just get the rest of the group to understand the simple concept that God is being used as a tool, nothing more.

Jul 24, 2007 4:56 pm

Why not encourage them to self-deport themselves.

Start by firing every Muslim who holds a job and refusing to hire them.

A great many will finally give up and go back to where they came from.

Those who don't could get some visits from night riders.

There is no reason why the country has to accept the crap being dumped our way.

If the US was not welcoming they would not want to come here, and if they're already here they'd decide to leave.

Jul 24, 2007 5:00 pm

[quote=Devil’sAdvocate]

[quote=Ashland]

What does FEMA mean to you?

QUOTE]

What did FEMA not do that you think was their responsibiliity?

Was New Orleans aware that they were ground zero for the hurricane?

The answer is yes--and at that point the Federal government was out of the picture.

It was up to the city and state to evacuate the city.  They did not do that.

It was up to the state to mobilize the National Guard.  The governor did not do that for days and days, and when she finally did the situation was out of control.

There is no intellectually honest way to deflect blame for that fiasco from where it belongs--Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco.

[/quote]

Mobilize the national guard?  You mean the one in Iraq?

And here's a great example of how useful FEMA was in the disaster:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9179805/

Jul 24, 2007 5:00 pm

If a dirty bomb went off in a major city and killed 50,000, 20 clean A-bombs would go off in the country responsible and the entire country would be dead. Every country knows that. Every terrorist organization knows that.

Are you insane or have you been living under a rock for the last 10 years?   Which country would you suggest we bomb when the next Al Quaida (sp?) attack occurs comprised of Islamic Fundamentalists???   Should we bomb France, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Chicago????

You are right.  Every terrorist organization does know this and this is why they keep themselves non National.  Terrorists without borders.  No country affiliation.  Just affiliation to their warped religious ideas.

Jul 24, 2007 5:11 pm

Only muslims get the stigma of the negative attachment? Why is that?

The Catholic Church  along with other Christian sects have publicly and repeadity denounced the bombings of abortion clinics

"Most organized opponents of abortion, including the Christian Life Commission, the U.S. Catholic Conference and the National Right to Life Committee, have repeatedly denounced violence and distanced themselves from its advocates. But the 15.2-million-member SBC, the nation's largest Protestant denomination, is the first to go to such lengths to reject antiabortion violence. "It is not enough just to denounce the violence," Land said. "It must be refuted as well.""

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1058/is_n27_v111/ai_1 5805783

The Muslim community and the religious leaders have NOT denounced and refuted the terrorists.  On the other hand, they have embraced them, financed them, hidden them and helped to spread the ideology.

This is why the get the stigma.  They deserve it.

Jul 24, 2007 5:13 pm

[quote=pretzelhead]

Mobilize the national guard?  You mean the one in Iraq?

[/quote]

When Hurricane Katrina hit NOLA there were about 10,000 members of the Louisiana National Guard.

Approximately 3,000 were in Iraq--leaving about 7,000 in the state.

Governor Blanco did not call any of them up in a timely fashion.

The knee-jerk desire to deny realities does not paint you in a favorable light.

Jul 24, 2007 5:13 pm

[quote=Whomitmayconcer][quote=Devil'sAdvocate][quote=Whomitmayconcer] <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

The terrorist threat is way overblown.

[/quote]

So, how many deaths are acceptable?  Apparently 9/11 did not bother you.  Would it bother you if a dirty bomb went off in a major city and killed, say, 50,000?

Is that enough to fight about?

What motivates you coward types to stand up and fight?

[/quote]

If a dirty bomb went off in a major city and killed 50,000, 20 clean A-bombs would go off in the country responsible and the entire country would be dead. Every country knows that. Every terrorist organization knows that. [/quote]

Here’s a term for you “asymmetrical warfare”. Take a look into it.

You seem to miss a couple of points here;

1)     No country would have their fingerprints on it.

2)     No terrorist organization would care if you leveled “the country responsible”, since they’re not a country

3)     UBL wasn’t afraid of retribution, nor was the rest of Al Qaeda

4)      Religious fanatics who think they get to go to heaven early based on martyrdom won’t care

Jul 24, 2007 5:15 pm

[quote=pretzelhead][quote=Devil’sAdvocate]

[quote=Ashland]

What does FEMA mean to you?

QUOTE]

What did FEMA not do that you think was their responsibiliity?

Was New Orleans aware that they were ground zero for the hurricane?

The answer is yes--and at that point the Federal government was out of the picture.

It was up to the city and state to evacuate the city.  They did not do that.

It was up to the state to mobilize the National Guard.  The governor did not do that for days and days, and when she finally did the situation was out of control.

There is no intellectually honest way to deflect blame for that fiasco from where it belongs--Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco.

[/quote]

Mobilize the national guard?  You mean the one in Iraq?

And here's a great example of how useful FEMA was in the disaster:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9179805/

[/quote]

Sorry wrong link.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9369937/

(I can admit my mistakes)  I will not sit back and argue that the first link was indeed the link that I meant to paste, as some would.  I will not "stay the course" and opine that the first quote was indeed the correct quote and proves a great point, when in reality it does not.  No, I am humble.  I can admit my wrong-doing.  That DOES NOT make me an "evildoer." 

At any rate the second link shows one example of the GREAT job that FEMA did in the wake of Katrina.

Jul 24, 2007 5:15 pm

[quote=Whomitmayconcer]

Re: Religious Fervor.

Are we REALLY that naive as to believe religiousity?

Do we REALLY think that the driving force behind people is god, other than the one true god; POWER?[/quote]

No, whom, you can call it a thirst for power. It makes no difference to the people who will happily cut off your head to further the "god" you claim they don't really care about.

Jul 24, 2007 5:17 pm

[quote=Dust Bunny]

The Catholic Church  along with other Christian sects have publicly and repeadity denounced the bombings of abortion clinics

[/quote]

Add the FACT that there have been very few abortion clinic bombings.  I don't have the count, but I'd wager a month's pay that there have been fewer clinic bombers than there were hijackers on September 11th.

Additionally, abortion clinic bombing is a solitary crime while the attacks on the West by Islam are well organized and large conspiracies.

One wonders what genetic code is missing among the Americans who seek to blame America for what happened on September 11th and for what will happen again any day now.

Jul 24, 2007 5:20 pm

[quote=Whomitmayconcer]

Re: Religious Fervor.

Are we REALLY that naive as to believe religiousity?

Do we REALLY think that the driving force behind people is god, other than the one true god; POWER?

Religion is what you use to get poor dumb schmucks to die for you. It has always been such. That you can sit here in the 21st century, after several thousand years of recorded human history and still opine that religious fervency is the heart of our problems is to show that you are "obviously simplistic" in your thinking.

Raise your game or SYPH you!

[/quote]

I want you to clarify your comment about what happens to a country that " sponsors " a dirty bomb.

You seem to be trying to make some intellectual point about respect, but muddle ideology with behaviour. You and Bond Guy.

I get the impression you both think we are still at the data gathering phase of the 'planning process'.

Jul 24, 2007 5:27 pm

[quote=pretzelhead][quote=pretzelhead][quote=Devil’sAdvocate]

[quote=Ashland]

What does FEMA mean to you?

QUOTE]

What did FEMA not do that you think was their responsibiliity?

Was New Orleans aware that they were ground zero for the hurricane?

The answer is yes--and at that point the Federal government was out of the picture.

It was up to the city and state to evacuate the city.  They did not do that.

It was up to the state to mobilize the National Guard.  The governor did not do that for days and days, and when she finally did the situation was out of control.

There is no intellectually honest way to deflect blame for that fiasco from where it belongs--Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco.

[/quote]

Mobilize the national guard?  You mean the one in Iraq?

And here's a great example of how useful FEMA was in the disaster:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9179805/

[/quote]

Sorry wrong link.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9369937/

(I can admit my mistakes)  I will not sit back and argue that the first link was indeed the link that I meant to paste, as some would.  I will not "stay the course" and opine that the first quote was indeed the correct quote and proves a great point, when in reality it does not.  No, I am humble.  I can admit my wrong-doing.  That DOES NOT make me an "evildoer." 

At any rate the second link shows one example of the GREAT job that FEMA did in the wake of Katrina.

[/quote]

So, in a massive natural disaster, in an attempt to mass resources, they wasted money. You think that's unique? Care to hear some stories about the work FEMA did after Hugo, or Bertha? Trucks stuck in mud, tents lost, generators showing up four days late? Do you figure FEMA has ice machines posted around the nation waiting for emergency use? We went without power for two weeks after our last big hurricane, and it wasn’t <?:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Clinton’s fault, or Bush Sr’s fault or even FEMA’s fault. FEMA has yet to find that magic wand some people thing they have at their disposal. <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Sorry, pal, if FEMA did anything wrong, it was showing up 24 hours later than they should have to rescue people from the twin disasters of Nagin and Blanco. All the BS about the LANG not being available, Nagin being "smart" to put thousands of people in the Superdome without food and water for 48 hours, etc., is just that BS. Had NOLA done ANY sort of reasonable planning, had Blanco activated the thousands of NG troops she had when Bush asked, people would not have suffered as they were forced to. Blaming all that misery on FEMA showing up 24 later than they should have is simple, mindless partisanship.

Jul 24, 2007 5:32 pm

[quote=Devil’sAdvocate][quote=coolshoos]

If a dirty bomb went off in a major city and killed 50,000, 20 clean A-bombs would go off in the country responsible and the entire country would be dead. Every country knows that. Every terrorist organization knows that.

Huh? This is a joke, or very naiive?

[/quote]

Big talk from the weak set.  If it happened they'd start screaming, "There is no country---we cannot retaliate against a country."

Witness the nonsensical blather about Iraq not having anything to do with September 11th, therefore being off limits in a retaliation for what happened.

It's like a Japanese whiner wailing, "We can't be angry with the United States because of the atom bomb.  Jimmy Doolittle was from California what happened had nothing to do with Texas."

[/quote]

This comment about a dirty bomb and consequences is illuminating. If you want to understand the liberal mind, look no further. It has everything to do with taking freedom and responsibility for granted.

I learned a lot here today, thanks.

Jul 24, 2007 5:37 pm

Coolshoos,

Naive? Not.

The knowledge that the US had the power and the will to use nuclear weapons turned Nikita Kruschev's ships around in the Carribean.

Knowledge of Russian nuclear bombs kept Americans in a ground war in VietNam.

Knowledge of Pakistani nuclear weapons keep us from expanding the war into their territory (which is why the Al queda is now keeping sanctuary there).

Knowledge of North Korean Bombs keeps us from there.

When we determined that it was some guy hiding in Afghanistan that had mastermineded/financed the 9/11 attack, we sent forces into Afghanistan to find and destroy the terrorist network (and I'm all for such effort). While there is now serious doubt that our military could carry out a land war elsewhere there is no doubt in anyone's mind that we have the technology to destroy anyplace on a massive scale. Further, any strategist will know that the very fact that we have overdeployed our ground troups makes us more willing to use "any means at our disposal" in retaliation.

Does that clear it up?

Jul 24, 2007 5:43 pm

[quote=mikebutler222][quote=Whomitmayconcer]

Re: Religious Fervor.

Are we REALLY that naive as to believe religiousity?

Do we REALLY think that the driving force behind people is god, other than the one true god; POWER?[/quote]

No, whom, you can call it a thirst for power. It makes no difference to the people who will happily cut off your head to further the "god" you claim they don't really care about.

[/quote]

Mikebutler222,

You equate all levels of authority when you say things like this.

You willingly ignore the difference between the soldier and the general.

It is convenient omissions like those that discredit your overall argument.

Jul 24, 2007 5:45 pm

Whommit, 

What part of the terrorist organization not being an arm of or being affiliated with a Nationality/Country do you not get?   

When we are attacked again, we will still have no defined target nation upon which to retaliate because the enemy is a mutli national group based on a religious ideology not a country like Russia.  There is no comparison.  

Jul 24, 2007 5:47 pm

[quote=Whomitmayconcer]

Knowledge of North Korean Bombs keeps us from there.

[/quote]

From where?