Ford does well in reliability report

or Register to post new content in the forum

17 RepliesJump to last post

 

Comments

  • Allowed HTML tags: <em> <strong> <blockquote> <br> <p>

Plain text

  • No HTML tags allowed.
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.
Oct 27, 2009 1:21 pm

Consumer Reports just released its reliability report for family sedans:

 
1. Toyota Prius
 
2. Ford Fusion
 
3. Mercury Milan
 
 Accord or Camry not in the top three.  Ford ripped a page from the Japanese auto makers playbook and is beating them at their own game.
 
GM has a ways to go.
 
Chrysler??? Is anybody down there there there?
Oct 27, 2009 1:37 pm

But the Prius was number 1. Isn't Toyota Japanese, or am I missing something?



Top 5 overall value were:



Prius

Mini Cooper

Rabbit

Civic and

Fit



So you get the most value out of your money on German (no surprise there) and Japanese cars.



Just so you know, I'm a big fan of Ford though. I like the company, and I think that they are making progress.

Oct 27, 2009 2:55 pm
The major Japanese brands and South Korea's Hyundai and Kia make plenty of reliable vehicles. Of the 48 models with top reliability scores, 36 were Asian. Toyota accounted for 18; Honda, eight; Nissan, four; and Hyundai/Kia and Subaru, three each.
 

Of the 41 vehicles in our best values list, all but the Mini, VW, and Volvo C30 are from Asian manufacturers, with 17 built by Toyota, 10 built by Honda, four by Nissan, and three by Hyundai. This reflects the fact that those automakers build many good, well-rounded vehicles that do well in our road tests and reliability Ratings. They also have relatively low owner costs, thanks largely to good resale value and relatively good fuel economy.



Tops in our tests


The lowest scorers

Oct 27, 2009 2:58 pm
Oct 27, 2009 3:07 pm

I am digging the Ford Flex (for looks).  I haven't driven it or done any sort of research on it though.

Oct 27, 2009 3:41 pm
Moraen:

But the Prius was number 1. Isn't Toyota Japanese, or am I missing something?

Top 5 overall value were:

Prius
Mini Cooper
Rabbit
Civic and
Fit

So you get the most value out of your money on German (no surprise there) and Japanese cars.

Just so you know, I'm a big fan of Ford though. I like the company, and I think that they are making progress.

 
Yes, you are missing something. Toyota has yet to make dollar one in profit on the Prius. It's a lost leader. Their bread and butter is the Camry.
 
Ford owned the car market until it ceded it to the Japanese to consentrate on trucks/SUVs. The Tarus was the best selling car in the U.S. at that time. And until the 93/94 time frame sold more Mercury grand marquis than honda di Accords or Toyota did camrys. They also sold more Lincoln Towncars, about 250,000 copies per year, than BMW sold of everything it built. The Ford abandoned the car market to build trucks.
 
That the Fusion/Milan is such a good car is a watermark event in the car biz. It shows that the sheriff is back in town. Ford, like its Japanese counterparts, sought to build a non innovative, not engineered from the ground up Camry clone. This saved billions in developement cost. Better yet, they managed it with a parts bin car. They succeeded. Bad news for Tokyo, good news for car car buyers.
Oct 27, 2009 4:21 pm
BondGuy:
Moraen:

But the Prius was number 1. Isn't Toyota Japanese, or am I missing something? Top 5 overall value were: Prius Mini Cooper Rabbit Civic and Fit So you get the most value out of your money on German (no surprise there) and Japanese cars. Just so you know, I'm a big fan of Ford though. I like the company, and I think that they are making progress.



Yes, you are missing something. Toyota has yet to make dollar one in profit on the Prius. It's a lost leader. Their bread and butter is the Camry.



Ford owned the car market until it ceded it to the Japanese to consentrate on trucks/SUVs. The Tarus was the best selling car in the U.S. at that time. And until the 93/94 time frame sold more Mercury grand marquis than honda di Accords or Toyota did camrys. They also sold more Lincoln Towncars, about 250,000 copies per year, than BMW sold of everything it built. The Ford abandoned the car market to build trucks.



That the Fusion/Milan is such a good car is a watermark event in the car biz. It shows that the sheriff is back in town. Ford, like its Japanese counterparts, sought to build a non innovative, not engineered from the ground up Camry clone. This saved billions in developement cost. Better yet, they managed it with a parts bin car. They succeeded. Bad news for Tokyo, good news for car car buyers.





BG - I thought you were posting numbers about reliability, not cost.



If the Prius is the number one "reliable" car, doesn't that mean it's better.



It's not about making a profit for the consumer. From what I can gather, the consumer gets a more reliable car at a better value.



Once again, big Ford fan here. I just think that if we're talking about car "quality" and not how much of a profit companies make (which, Ford is narrowing their losses each year and will eventually post a profit IMHO), then it appears that Toyota is winning that war.



Again, since we were talking about consumer reports and reliability, I thought I wasn't really missing anything.

Oct 27, 2009 4:38 pm

How in the world is a Toyota Prius a family sedan?  I couldn't fit my nuts in that car.

Oct 28, 2009 8:54 am
Moraen:



BG - I thought you were posting numbers about reliability, not cost.

If the Prius is the number one "reliable" car, doesn't that mean it's better.

It's not about making a profit for the consumer. From what I can gather, the consumer gets a more reliable car at a better value.

Once again, big Ford fan here. I just think that if we're talking about car "quality" and not how much of a profit companies make (which, Ford is narrowing their losses each year and will eventually post a profit IMHO), then it appears that Toyota is winning that war.

Again, since we were talking about consumer reports and reliability, I thought I wasn't really missing anything.

 
The post is about Ford's ability to compete. Yes, specifically the report went to reliability which was hurdle number one, closing the quality gap. The Japanese are aware of this as Honda is reconfiguring its product cycle to compete. They admit that their Accord has fallen behind the competition. They, as well as Toyota, are well aware of Ford's history in the car market. They are now gearing up for a market share war in their bread and butter market space.  They take ford very seriously, as the should, because Ford not only owned the U. S. market before they voluntarily abanoned it, but also had the two best selling cars in the world before they decided trucks were a better way to go. The threat is real in that Ford knows how to win on a world stage in these market spaces.
 
 
 As for the Prius, as Voltmoie somewhat crudey points out, it's not really a family car. Great vehicle, and no arguement, reliable. The between the lines news is that Ford beat Toyota's heavy hitter, the Camry.
Oct 28, 2009 9:25 am

Agree with Ford getting ready to re-take the market. Mullaly is brilliant, IMHO.



As for the Prius, I don't think you guys have driven one lately.



The side by side comparison has the Prius edging out the Fusion in front leg room and has only slightly less interior space. Smaller leg room in the back, but you usually put kids back there. Hip room is slightly bigger in the Fusion.



Head room is 1 inch bigger in the Fusion. All in all, the Prius is comparable to the Fusion. But the biggest difference is the cargo room. The Prius has 25% more than the Fusion.



Oct 28, 2009 10:23 am

The Prius is a not a mass market car. The Camry, Fusion and Milan are mass market cars.

 
The current edition of the Prius amy be marginally bigger than its predecessor but still is not as large the now mid sized Camry/Fusion/ Accord. Which have also grown with each product cycle.
 
It's not a great idea to buy into the measurement stat game. Until recently I owned an R-56, AKA Mini Cooper S. I had as much room in the front of that car as i did in my wife's Camry. The seating room was very comparable to a three series BMW. In fact, with the leather seats and the correct driving position afforded by the well engineered seating system i was more comfortable in that car than almost any I've owned. And, with the back seats down a storage area was created that could compete with the usable space in the Camry's trunk. Still, Zippy the Mini Cooper was a roller skate that could fit in the trunk of any one of the many Towncars i have owned in the past, and is nowhere near as big as the Camry in overall size. Thankfully!! So the space stat thing isn't usually something to hang your hat on.
 
On a side note, whoever said the Mini was a value buy is half right. Compared with performance cars it's the deal of the century. It's the most fun you can have on four wheels without draining your bank account. I've owned cars that cost twice as much that were half the fun. But as a value car for everyday commuting? Hmm? if you're like me, yeah, Zippy was an earned name gained from experience. But at a price. it cost about the same to run as our camry. better MPG but used premium fuel. Something along the lines of a Civic is much better value for the mundane commute and grocery getter. duties.
Oct 28, 2009 10:29 am

I own a Civic - love it. I personally think it's a better value than any of the top five.



And I guess that's it - car ownership is personal.



I think when the Civic dies (likely several years out), I will try Ford cars.



As for the the space, I was responding to volt's comment about it being a "family car". Realistically, none of the cars in the top five are "family sedans". Of course, were we not so fat in this country, they could still be family sedans.

Oct 28, 2009 1:08 pm
Moraen:

But the Prius was number 1. Isn't Toyota Japanese, or am I missing something?

Top 5 overall value were:

Prius
Mini Cooper
Rabbit
Civic and
Fit

So you get the most value out of your money on German (no surprise there) and Japanese cars.

Just so you know, I'm a big fan of Ford though. I like the company, and I think that they are making progress.

 
And British (MINI)
Oct 28, 2009 2:16 pm
Wet_Blanket:

I am digging the Ford Flex (for looks).  I haven't driven it or done any sort of research on it though.

 
It was Ford's answer to the general public and car magazines about building an upscale crossover.  They put some bells and whistles on it, priced it accordingly, and got hammered, by the same car magazines that said Ford didn't make any upscale cars, because they priced it too high.  Magazines said it was too fancy for the typical Ford market. 
 
I love them too.  They're a way cool car.  Sort of the 30 something's xB.  Fully loaded, you're talking about sticker of over $40K.  That's a large chunk of cash for folks to plop down, on a Ford no less, when they figure they can get something that speaks German for not much more.  I've stopped by the lot to look at them up close, but like you I've not driven one or done the research.  I may look at a gently used one when it's time to trade the family minivan the next time.  
Oct 28, 2009 3:11 pm
Spaceman Spiff:
Wet_Blanket:

I am digging the Ford Flex (for looks).  I haven't driven it or done any sort of research on it though.

 
I may look at a gently used one when it's time to trade the family minivan the next time.  
 
That is my plan exactly.
Oct 29, 2009 12:23 pm
MsBroker:
Moraen:

But the Prius was number 1. Isn't Toyota Japanese, or am I missing something?

Top 5 overall value were:

Prius
Mini Cooper
Rabbit
Civic and
Fit

So you get the most value out of your money on German (no surprise there) and Japanese cars.

Just so you know, I'm a big fan of Ford though. I like the company, and I think that they are making progress.

 
And British (MINI)
 
 
The only thing British about the Mini is its heritage. Owned by BMW and built in Ireland.
 
The only other thing British that could be said about the Mini is the positive driving experience one gets behind the wheel, "Spot on!"
Oct 29, 2009 12:42 pm
Moraen:

I own a Civic - love it. I personally think it's a better value than any of the top five.

And I guess that's it - car ownership is personal.

I think when the Civic dies (likely several years out), I will try Ford cars.

As for the the space, I was responding to volt's comment about it being a "family car". Realistically, none of the cars in the top five are "family sedans". Of course, were we not so fat in this country, they could still be family sedans.

 
We've been through three Civics over the past six years. Two, were really good cars, and one not so hot. Unfortunately, the not so hot one, an 07 LX,  is a replacement for an 03 that acoordianed in a rear end accident on one of our local freeways. It went to auto heaven with 117,000 miles on the clock, week old tires, timing belt, shocks and struts. That was it's first time back at Honda since it was purchased. Great car. A few month later we lost another Civic to a drunk driver. Luckily only the car was damaged. The 07 replacement Civic, purchesed new, has had some weird problems.
 
When my kids were small we had the station wagon version of the Mercury Grand Marquis. Now that was a family car! 10 seats, the ability to pull a trailer its own weight, and great gas mileage. Dressed in top trim, leather seats and all the bells and whistles it was the station wagon version of the Towncar. Ford stopped building them after the 91 model year. Clean versions of that car can still bring 10 grand! Unfortunately, not too many clean versions still around.