Ethics question

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May 14, 2005 12:38 am

Someone asked me this question...

Why should a client purchase a financial product through a broker/financial advisor/planner when they can go on the internet and purchase it themselves? Wouldn't the client save money by purchasing it themselves?

May 14, 2005 12:53 am

Oh, here we go…wouldn’t I save money by getting my medical advice from the internet, so why go to a doctor? Why should I have paid those bastards 150k for my house when I could have hammered the nails myself?   How can those crooks at Jiffy Lube rip me off for $30 when I take my car to them to get my oil changed? Wouldn’t I save money by changing my oil myself?



My point is, the reason that people pay us is for advice. I don’t know how long you’ve been in the business, but you’ll soon realize that the reason that fees/commissions exist is because of you.



When a client has you, they get advice. Looking back, in October 2002, you tell them to buy more, or at least hang in there. If they do it themselves, they don’t have someone educated on the market to let them know these things.



The “individual” investor will almost always buy high and sell low. Your job is to prevent that and reverse that. My two cents!

May 14, 2005 6:36 am

Not everything is about saving money.  People want to enjoy life,
and we supply coverage over something so they can worry about one less
thing, or make room for one more thing, such as more family
attention.  Its quality of life, not quantity of savings.  If
your clients and/or prospects are nickel and dimng you, fire them
and/or thank them for their time and send them on their way…its not
worth the risk and aggrevation.



You need paying clients period…and if you have something worth paying
for (which can come into question) they will have no problem paying
you.  Focuson what you supply, not what you charge.




May 14, 2005 8:57 am

I would not call this an ethics question.  Next thread.

May 14, 2005 1:39 pm

Financial services are now a commodity. Anyone can go on Etrade and buy stock or funds for example. Where we earn our fee is in providing advice and service for our clients. We deserve to be paid because we are better than the “do it ourself” alternative. 95% of people ultimately blow themselves up by going it alone… Then they come to us with their portfolio down 50% and are NOW willing to pay for our services and listen to us… Seen it many times.

May 14, 2005 5:48 pm

You are right about the commodity comparison.  That is why you will see MASS consolidation and ultimately a huge reduction in the salesforce in this industry.  England had this happen and we will not be able to avoid it. 

May 14, 2005 9:04 pm

One thing I learned years ago, in this business, is that if you can't provide an good answer to this kind of question, then you aren't providing any value to your clients. Therefore, they can get it cheaper on the internet.

I would tell my clients, if they knew exactly what stock they wanted to buy, buy it through a discount broker. If they wanted an investment plan, come to me.

Some of my clients would devote a small portion of their investments to speculative stocks. These were stocks they heard about on tv or newspapers. I would always insist they keep their "spec" stocks in a separate discount broker account. I didn't have time to research these stocks, didn't have the expertise to manage them, and I didn't want their lousy returns "polluting" those I recommended.

My purpose in urging them to open a separate account at a discount firm was to avoid this conversation 2 years down the road when, inevitably, one of their "spec" stocks tanked and the client's memory has faded:

ME: No Mr. Jones, I did not recommend "Pets.com", you told me to buy it for you.

MR. JONES: Oh no, I think you recommended it highly. In fact, I think you gave me some research on it. Now, where's that 800 number to the NASD?

May 15, 2005 11:53 am

[quote=doberman]

One thing I learned years ago, in this business, is that if you can't provide an good answer to this kind of question, then you aren't providing any value to your clients. Therefore, they can get it cheaper on the internet.

I would tell my clients, if they knew exactly what stock they wanted to buy, buy it through a discount broker. If they wanted an investment plan, come to me.

Some of my clients would devote a small portion of their investments to speculative stocks. These were stocks they heard about on tv or newspapers. I would always insist they keep their "spec" stocks in a separate discount broker account. I didn't have time to research these stocks, didn't have the expertise to manage them, and I didn't want their lousy returns "polluting" those I recommended.

My purpose in urging them to open a separate account at a discount firm was to avoid this conversation 2 years down the road when, inevitably, one of their "spec" stocks tanked and the client's memory has faded:

ME: No Mr. Jones, I did not recommend "Pets.com", you told me to buy it for you.

MR. JONES: Oh no, I think you recommended it highly. In fact, I think you gave me some research on it. Now, where's that 800 number to the NASD?

[/quote]

100% Correct.

May 15, 2005 11:59 am

AMEN!

I've found that you can keep meticulous notes, have clients sign "hold blameless" letters, etc.  In the end, the client believes that anything that goes up is his idea, and anything that goes down is yours.

In the end, it's as Doberman and PGB have posted...if the client wants to wander off and try to find the next Microsoft, do it somewhere else.  The right kind of client will pick up what you're saying and respect you for it.  With the wrong kind of client, despite the size of the account, you're always one trade away from arbitration.

May 25, 2005 3:27 pm

i think it would be helpful to consult a broker/advisor/planner or the internet if you don't have enough information about the product selling. you will definitely save if you purchased it yourself but its quite a risk if you aren't really sure of it. but you should make sure they are giving you the right advises and they meet the standards/warranties the company provides.

May 25, 2005 4:50 pm

It’s a conversation about two terms that people often confuse; “price” and “value”.

May 26, 2005 2:45 pm

Hey Striker,

looks like I picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue.

May 26, 2005 10:38 pm

You really should know the answer to this question before you ever get into this business...

It is definitely not an issue of ethics, its called Added Value

May 27, 2005 9:03 pm

I think most people, at least those smart enough to consider using a pro, understand that you get what you pay for. For many of us this is a lesson learned the hard way. 

May 28, 2005 1:26 pm

ETHICS,

Let's see is it Ethical to FULLY DISCLOSE ALL FEES AND CHARGES.....SOME SAY "YES"

BigPayDay, says "IT DOESN'T MATTER", it's buyer beware.....he works at Edward Jones....Ethics used to mean something there, didn't it ? 

Ethics classes have been rquired at Edward Jones for years, too bad their GP'S , AND ESPECIALLY THEIR MANAGING GENERAL PARTNER 3 MIL BILL HILL DIDN'T TAKE THEM..............  

May 28, 2005 2:06 pm

You need to seek some professional help before it’s too late.



BPD

May 28, 2005 3:45 pm

BigPayDay(BRAINWASHED)

I answered your questions, answer mine, or we will all need who needs HELP, It's YOU

BigPayDay wrote:
Bench Warmer,

BigPayDay, Here are your answers

Jones settled because they thought it was in the best interest of our clients and our advisors. It is very difficult to fignt the U.S. Government in court or for that matter in the press. We did not admit or deny any wrong doing. Are you say JONES DID NO WRONG, YES OR NO ! no "WEASEL" words..?

Doug Hill took the sword for the firm. I know you won't believe this, but it is the truth. HE negotiated the settlement and as he said "There is no one person bigger than the firm." "BS", HE KEPT IS BUTT OUT OF JAIL...FACT!    You are living in FANTASY LAND, CALL THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IN MISSOURI, ASK DOUG HILL TO TELL HIM, THAT IN WRITING! CHECK OUT THE WSJ, I KNOW YOUR CLIENTS DON'T READ IT, BUT YOU NEED TO, IT'S BEEN REPORTED SEVERAL TIMES, GO READ IT! 
As far as other firms not doing revenue sharing, take a look at the following:  NOT ALL FIRMS REVENUE SHARE , YES OR NO?  i SAY NO, WHAT YOU SAY?

http://www.americanfunds.com/pdf/mfgepb-905_gfab.pdf

see page 26.

Yes there are SEVERAL indy firms on the list including Ray Jay and LPL. BUT NOT ALL, ARE THERE ?

As far as Jones being a laughing stock, I doubt it. Maybe to you Jones Failures, but our greatest critic, our clients, in a survey done in Jan and Feb of this year ranked Edward Jones #1 in customer satisfaction. We don't have to answer to the press or envious, jealous Jones failures like you. We serve our clients. Period.

Actually I was very successful at Jones, a Partner, always made top bonus level, recruited, and trained for the FIRM, I got PO'd because the GP's would not fully disclose what was going on , and kept telling us that the "SEC" CHECKING US(JONES) OUT WAS NOTHING! THAT WAS NOT TRUE, WAS IT?

THE GREED OF THE GP'S FINALLY CAUGHT-UP WITH THEM AND THE FIRM, YES OR NO ?

lthough we do not do Wrap Fees in lieu of commission, we do have a Fee Based Advisory program for HNW who are investing $500k or more. Most folks investing under $500k can invest less expensivly than a Fee Based pogram and usually aren't in a high enough tax bracket where writing off the advisory fees helps their taxes. YOU NEED EDUCATION, AND FACTS IN THIS AREA, CHECK IT OUT...THERE IS A REAL WORLD OUT THERE FOR YOU AND YOUR CLIENTS TO DISCOVER, like full discloser, of FEES & CHARGES, and JONES is not close to the lowest!

A few months ago you, Lance Legs, & uwec something or other were saying Jones didn't have enough capital to stay in business. Well guess what? We just had our best trimester in the firm's history. We are in the 40% bonus bracket, almost as high as the heydays of the late '90s. Our limited Partnership, which as averaged 22% since 1990, is at an annualized rate through the first 4 months of over 20%. Over 1/2 of our IRs went on a diversification trip last contest period. Did I mention being the Lexus of the Financial Services industry with our highest Customer Satisfaction rating in JD Powers annual survey? Jones dumped $58million into our profit sharing plan last year. (How much of that goes towards GPs? Zero!) Should I go on?

Get your Facts straight:

1) PLAYER never said such a thing as Jones had a Financial Problem, California could change that?  DO NOT PUT MY NAME WITH THOSE OTHERS

2) JD Power award never asked those clients "How would you feel if Edward Jones got fined for 75 Million Dollars by the SEC, but didn't feel their clients were important enough to tell them about it ? 

What do you think the rating would be then?

3) Your Ir's going on Trips, they pay taxes on, revenue they produced and they live off 38%, so getting back part of the 62% you left on the table is not really too smart is it ?  There is no FREE LUNCH or TRIPS, even at EDWARD JONES?

It isn't as bad as you Jones Bashers (i.e. Jones Failures) wish it was.

I LEFT WHAT IS YOUR EXCUSE?  How can you stand your FIRM , not disclosing to your CLIENTS, what has happen...or can you justify anything...like Bill 3 Mil Hill the FRAUD JUMPER? 

You need to get Jones out of your head. Move on. Life's too short. You may want to seek professional help.

BigPayDay, I have moved on but when I read Hippocrates like you touting how GREAT THE FIRM IS, when the FIRM has failed to be HONEST to their CLIENTS....I FEEL ASHAMED,for Ted & Edward Jones, they would be rolling over in their graves, wouldn't you?

I don't understand how you have put up with out demanding FULL DISCLOSURE for YOU & your clients, or DOESN'T THAT MATTER TO YOU?

ASK YOUR CLIENTS WHAT THEY THINK ABOUT IT, IF YOU HAVE THE GUTS? 

I feel us x-jonsers care more about the integrity of the Firm's past,  than you hanger on's, at least we could look our clients right in the eye and say we have explained everything they should know about our GREAT FIRM, can you really do that now?



Big Pay Day
________________________________________
The Grass is GREENER where you water it!

BigPayDay



__________________
Hi Ho Hi Ho it's off to INDY we go........... Back to Top   BigPayDay
Senior Member



Joined: Jan. 10 2005
Posts: 217 Posted: May 27 2005 at 11:18pm | IP Logged Bench Warmer,

So you do what you do for Ted Jones. How special. Sounds like you have a warm heart.

You say you've moved on.

Dude get a grip. Jones has you by the neck and they are shaking you till you can't breath.....and then you wake up and ask your boyfriend to spoon you because you're scared.

Out.



Back to Top   Player
Groupie



Joined: Dec. 08 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 64 Posted: May 28 2005 at 10:57am | IP Logged

BigPayDay (Brainwashed),

At least I can answer questions, let's see what your answers are ?

Are you AFRAID of the TRUTH?

There has never been a JONES SUPPORTER on here yet that has answered QUESTIONS, they only fire back insults...is that how they are teaching salemanship at Edward Jones......

SHOW US WHAT YOU ARE MADE OF "PUNK" make my DAY....



May 28, 2005 9:42 pm

What’s your question?



BPD

Jun 2, 2005 2:29 am

[quote=BigPayDay]What's your question?

BPD[/quote]

The Questions and Answers go to the following Forum:

BigPayDay Defend Jones Answers Questions

Jun 5, 2005 11:43 pm

[quote=stanwbrown]It's a conversation about two terms that people often confuse; "price" and "value".[/quote]

My favorite quote from Bob Dunwoody

"In the absence of value PRICE is the ONLY question..."