Are you kidding me?!?

or Register to post new content in the forum

27 RepliesJump to last post

 

Comments

  • Allowed HTML tags: <em> <strong> <blockquote> <br> <p>

Plain text

  • No HTML tags allowed.
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.
Nov 7, 2005 12:59 pm

Met with a prospect Friday, 2 million in cash at a couple banks in town.  Wants to consolidate AND buy 150 acres or so.  Wants to keep $500,000 liquid and "put the rest to work."


I make my proposal, he loves every bit of it...and he's bringing me the checks Tuesday (tomorrow).


That was Friday.  Today I get a call from the branch.  "Mr. Simmons called to cancel his appointment.  His says his WIFE (who was "not a decision maker") wants him to stay in cash and also doesn't want to do anything in brokerage, just wants the best BANK SIDE money market they can get."  AKA walk in get a cashiers check and go.


ARE YOU SERIOUS!  He was totally on board on Friday, now it's Monday and it's all gone to hell. 


Called him...same story...wife says this, wife says that...since when is the wife the decision maker, especially since we've had three meetings and she's been to ZERO.


Trying to salvage the appointment for tomorrow...calling the wife today (in an hour) to see what/why she feels this way, and see if I can get the business.


People make me crazy.

Nov 7, 2005 1:09 pm

Called him...same story...wife says this, wife says that...since when is the wife the decision maker, especially since we've had three meetings and she's been to ZERO.


Why didn't she attend any meetings?  Not asked?  Purposely excluded? You never really know who the decision maker is and since you never included her, you have no way of knowing that she isn't the driving force in the finances. 


Relying on one spouse to accurately translate what you discussed in a financial planning meeting is not good.  I would never meet with just one spouse, especially with such a large amount.


Personally if my husband had made a 2 million dollar decision without discussing it with me I would want not only his private parts on a platter but also the advisor who didn't even bother to include me.

Nov 7, 2005 1:11 pm

I think the wife is the decision maker.

Nov 7, 2005 1:26 pm

No $hit?  Obviously the wife is the decision maker.  It's not ALWAYS the case.


In my experience not all wives want to know what and where the money is going...It just irks me that not once did he say "she should be here" or "my wife will want to know this..."  Never one mention.


Babbling Looney,


If someone's wife was pissed AT ME because her husband didn't include her and she didn't get a formal invitation with stitched lettering to come to a meeting that involved their finances...I'd feel sorry for her poor husband for having to deal with the menopausal old bat.  

Nov 7, 2005 1:32 pm

Bank,


I feel your pain brother......In the last 2 years, I have had 4-5 truly heartbreaking situations, similar to yours.


A couple of guys were to retire after 30+ years at a company, Financially were more than able.....wives put the kabash on them leaving, BYE BYE Milly (million in rollover) for me.


Last year.....I spent no less than 40 hours with a client - 75 yr old woman $50,000 with me.......$300,000 annuity with some loser who had been at 4 B/D or banks in 10 years. We were researching to find out where the hell the money was. Client does not remember 5 minutes ago....I was trying to piece it together....found it buried at an obscure annuity co. in NYC. 1035 exchange to me ......losing company sent 2 letters to my client, to try and retain the business.....after 3 months of trying to drag the MF'n money over....get a call from her "Son" .......truck driver.........Thinks I am a scum bag, and not only stole my $300,000 piece (hired some local yocal retiremnet planner), but incurred an $8,000 cdsc on other  business I did for his mom. Would not let me meet with him to explain that I had spent a ton of time HELPING clean up his mother's crappy investment trail. He blamed me for the last 15 years of BS.....which he could'nt begin to understand - even though, I've only known his mother for 16 months....... I almost quit the F'n biz.  


What did I learn......You have to expect this behavior.....and don't count on things till they are done! Nothing surprises me about people. With few exceptions,  the nice one's either have no money, or will leave you for dumb reasons, The A-holes can become good clients, or work you to death - and want $100 worth of service for $1. I am not overly impressed with anyone, and I try and work on my terms (this is not always possible in a growth mode, but I try).  


PS....I have lost over 1 million in client assetts this year.....to real estate investments. (clients pulling money out to buy property) Not to sound bitter...............I hope they get leveled!

Nov 7, 2005 1:39 pm

I'd feel sorry for her poor husband for having to deal with the menopausal old bat.  


LOL....be careful!!... most high end retirees consist of  husband and wife. And in the retirement years I can assure you that the wife is most likely to be a menopausal old bat.


Just a personal story that you might use next time you are dealing with a couple.   We went to buy a new car (for me) and even though we told the salesman that it was to be my car and that I would be making the decision and that I would be the person who would be writing the check, the guy kept cutting me out of the conversation and barely would look at me.  All my questions were directly addressed to my husband, which irritated both of us.  When I indicated that I wanted to sit in the car and take a test drive, he still tried to get my husband to sit and drive!!! Needless to say I didn't buy a car from that salesman.  The idiot just didn't pay attention and made assumptions about the sale that cost him a commission.  I went someplace else and bought the same car from a different person who paid attention.

Nov 7, 2005 2:49 pm

Sure, that is obvious.  That is poor salesmanship on the dealer's part.  That, again, is not my irritation. 


To put your story in context...Imagine your husband went to the car dealer to buy a car FOR YOU by himself and told the salesman he was looking for a car.  He said he wants a red convertable with leather seats and a six disc CD changer.


The salesman goes and gets what he asks for.  The man drives it home, shows his wife, and she says she wants a MINIVAN with cloth seats and an extra large cupholder for her favorite 96 oz slurpie. 


He calls the salesman back, and says no thanks, this isn't what my wife wanted at all.



See the difference?  Now, how is that the salesman's fault?  I'll help you out...it's not.

Nov 7, 2005 3:44 pm

Apples and oranges. It is not the same thing at all. I was trying to give you a woman's view on being exluded from the decision making process.


First of all in the case of investable assets (unless it is an IRA where only one person is involved) we are talking about joint assets.  The other spouse (man or wife) would have to sign on the dotted line to make the investment.  Unless the husband was taking community property assets and hiding them from his spouse in which case I believe that the agent could be in a precarious position if he knew that was the intent. It seems only prudent to include her/him into the decision making process.  Two people have to agree to the decision.


I also have had deals fall apart just like yours and it hurts.  That is why I make every effort and often insist that we have both spouses at the meetings, at least after the first meeting.   The same goes for Moneyadvisor.  As soon as it was apparent that his elderly client was not playing with a full deck, I would have strongly suggested (and put it in a letter to the client so there is no question that you tried) that we include other family members in the process.  Sure you may lose the sale when more people are involved, but it is my experience that the family/spouse appreciated the consideration.  Plus it is just good cyoa with elderly clients.


In the car example, the salesman is dealing with one person making a purchase that really doesn't need two signatures to complete. The salesman isn't liable for anything.  Unless he and my husband decided to forge my signature on a loan agreement.


That being said I would love a red convertable sports car.  BUT even so, if my spouse made such a major purchase without consulting me I would be pissed.  I have seen some marriages where one person can make these types of major decisions without any thought to the other person, however most people share making major life altering decisions. 


Sometimes in addition to being investment advisors we are also put into the position of marriage counselor and even grief counselor.


Hopefully you will be able to connect with the wife, make her feel that her input is valued and find out what was the stumbling block.  Good luck.

Nov 7, 2005 4:13 pm

BL,


I know, I know - I probably contributed to my downfall in that case (the 75 yr. old).


#1 I knew without question, that I was helping her....and doing the right thing. At the time, I even mentioned to my associates "can you imagine how a less ethical person would be handling this client".


#2 through conversations with my client, I sensed the character of the sons.....and figured, once they found out mom had a few bucks, they would be swarming like vultures. At the time, I felt that it was in my clients best interest  - to not include her sons.

Nov 7, 2005 4:42 pm

Hey man I feel your pain.. For sure the wife had to be at the meetings. Without her she feels you/him are pulling a fast one by her. With her leadership they have saved 2 million bucks. Sounds like a great relationship since one has to take control of the finances and the man is listening to the woman (my family I wear the pants).


Reguardless after reading first line I hope it works out, but if it does not realize the majority of the time you need executive support (wife). Good luck  

Nov 7, 2005 4:48 pm

Money I stated the "I feel your pain" without realizing that you also did. Smart minds think alike!


BF this comment "In my experience not all wives want to know what and where the money is going..." what part of the country you from? 


The 75 year old story is one where you could feel good that you have integrity to do right! Its pathetic how children drool over the death of their parents.


INTEGRITY is what makes you, so nice job.. I would consider you a friend!

Nov 7, 2005 5:02 pm

I would say that most FCs who have been around for a while have these kind of stories. Frustration isn't a long enough word.


Here's one of my events: A client referred me to one of her friends, a late sixties widow with about 2 million sitting at ML. Her story was that her deceased husband had taken care of the finances and that she was dealing with her husbands broker. Hubby had escaped this woman to the great beyond about 9 or 10 years earlier. Turned out that after the initial estate settling dust had settled the ML broker couldn't be bothered with this woman. For the better part of ten years she hadn't spoken to him. When she called she was always shuffled to an assistant. It was the registered assistants who called her to do business. None of the ML people had any kind of relationship with this woman to speak of. Neglect doesn't cover what ML had done to this woman. Over the course of several meetings I worked with this woman to develope an investment plan that was designed to meet her needs.Very nicely done, if I do say so myself(Note selfserving pat on the back). I presented the plan and had her sign the acats form. A week later the ML broker shows up on her doorstep with flowers. ACATS cancelled. End of story. Coincidently,  Oh well, another story from the trenches.


FFFRRRUUUSSSTTTRRRAAATTTIIIOOONNN! Still not long enough!

Nov 7, 2005 5:22 pm

LOL...ok, just to make this an even more laughable day, the other financial advisor has RECOMMENDED that he put all 2 million into 7 day muni preferreds...lord help me.


ALL TWO MILLION?!?  No worries about estate taxes (8 million net worth), no financial analysis, nothing.  What an idiot.  The funny thing is...even at 2.86 tax free yield, at his tax bracket my 4.3% money market is STILL BETTER, and has DAILY LIQUIDITY, not WEEKLY.


Anyway...we shall see tomorrow.  I will keep all who care posted.


P.S.


ExecJock,


I live in the South, where most women still know their place.


Kidding!!!  (kinda) lol

Nov 7, 2005 5:27 pm

ha ha.. Yeah I hear you.. The man wears the pants and makes the decision. He holds the gun and she holds the pot.

Nov 7, 2005 6:09 pm

I live in the South, where most women still know their place.


Kidding!!!  (kinda) lol


Hoo  boy, you guys are treading on dangerous ground.  Just kidding.  sorta .    Actually without knowing what type of business your client's had to generate that income, we don't know that the wife may not have been an integral part of the business.  In my little rural corner of the world most small business owners are a joint husband/wife venture and in my experience the wife handles most of the financial day to day business and the husband concentrates on the business activity side.  Most of the women are the actual decision makers, even if the husband thinks he is    But everyone is different.


A bit of advice:  most of the time women care more about preservation of capital than actual investment performance. I don't mean that they don't care if their portfolio makes money but by that I mean they are more emotionally connected to how the money is going to affect their lives and are they going to be able to pass on to their children and grandchildren (assuming they have any) You might want to stress the estate planning part of your service and how this will help protect her family and not diminish their current ability to enjoy the fruits of their hard earned labor.  So instead of dealing overly with numbers, percentages, and ratios, also deal with feelings, safety, family.


It sounds to me, since she likes the muni fund, that safety is more of her immediate concern and if you can get the account you might have to baby step her (and him) into what they should have.  But who knows, she might be like me and be more into the nuts and bolts of investing, but I doubt it.


Good Luck

Nov 7, 2005 7:39 pm

moneyadvisor:

"PS....I have lost over 1 million in client assetts this year.....to real estate investments. (clients pulling money out to buy property) Not to sound bitter...............I hope they get leveled!"


-------------------------------------------------


They will get leveled. Just keep in contact with these (ex?)-clients, because they'll be back. Of course, they'll have smaller amounts to invest (compared to what they withdrew), but they'll be back.


Nov 7, 2005 8:17 pm

executivejock

The 75 year old story is one where you could feel good that you have integrity to do right! Its pathetic how children drool over the death of their parents.


-----------------------------------------------------


Assuming the child is an heir and is only concerned with what they'll inherit, why not approach the heir from that standpoint? Tell the heir that their mother's portfolio is not providing her with enough income and that without a major overhaul of her investments, she'll soon be withdrawing her principal to live on. And that what you're proposing will not only increase her income, but also will help insure that she can provide for her heirs after she is gone.


If the heir believes that, without your help, they'll be left penniless; I can assure you they'll have their mother in your office fast! 

Nov 7, 2005 8:42 pm

tjc45:

...I presented the plan and had her sign the acats form. A week later the ML broker shows up on her doorstep with flowers. ACATS cancelled. End of story. Coincidently,  Oh well, another story from the trenches.


-----------------------------------------


Just speculating, but when she was signing the acats, that might have been a good time to tell her what to expect from the other broker. Once her old broker received the acats, tell her that her old broker was probably going to call her, visit her, wine and dine her, and shower her with all kinds of attention. In other words, do all the things he should have done before now.


If you can prepare the client for what behavior to expect from the old broker, you can program the client's response to this behavior. For example, you could say something like: " Now Ms. Client, Bob Broker is probably going to call you when he finds out you're transferring your account. He's going to ask why you're transferring, say he's sorry for ignoring you, and promise to do better in the future. He's going to say and do most anything to get you to stay. But after years of neglecting you, I think we know what to expect of Bob Broker. So, just tell Bob, you've made your decision and hang-up." 

Nov 7, 2005 8:58 pm

I doubt this is about product.

Nov 7, 2005 11:26 pm

Good point Doberman.. Yeah one has to react to the situation.. If the kids want mom to die so they can get the money one has to address that allowing mom to live off of income will allow a win win for both. Mom would leave some assets to pay for funeral and support who ever and the kids would get some cash!