Anyone Trading this Market?

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Nov 5, 2008 6:18 pm

I work at a bank so I cant trade client accounts(primarly packaged products). Just wondering if any wirehouse reps are trading clients accounts in this market. Seems like there would be some intersting/commission opportunities available.

Nov 5, 2008 6:26 pm

Hah, you mean selling everyone out 2 weeks ago?  As good as some people are, the commissions wirehouse peoples are making on trades sounds hard to resist.  And a few months from now when the markets up (hopefully), client wants to buy back in, bang, more comissions.  I love it.   

Nov 5, 2008 7:10 pm
Vin Diesel:

I work at a bank so I cant trade client accounts(primarly packaged products). Just wondering if any wirehouse reps are trading clients accounts in this market. Seems like there would be some intersting/commission opportunities available.


If you are unable to trade where you are, you are in the right place.

Nov 13, 2008 5:12 pm

wirehouse reps: if you're not trading clients accounts, what real value are you providing? and placing your clients in fee based accounts in a buy&hold strategy doesnt count

Nov 13, 2008 5:41 pm

Trading itself is simply an activity - an input.  What adds value is the output - better results.  Trading may help with that, or it may hurt with that.  Confusing activity with results is a recipe for disaster.

More importantly, your stated rational for trading ("Seems like there would be some intersting/commission opportunities available") makes you sound like the poster boy for churning and as such is bound to lead you and your clients to nothing but trouble. 

THAT is why I said it's you're in the right place if you CAN'T trade.  I sure hope you just expressed yourself badly.  Otherwise you make yourself sound like a train wreck waiting to happen.

Nov 13, 2008 6:19 pm
Morphius:

Trading itself is simply an activity - an input.  What adds value is the output - better results.  Trading may help with that, or it may hurt with that.  Confusing activity with results is a recipe for disaster.

More importantly, your stated rational for trading ("Seems like there would be some intersting/commission opportunities available") makes you sound like the poster boy for churning and as such is bound to lead you and your clients to nothing but trouble. 

THAT is why I said it's you're in the right place if you CAN'T trade.  I sure hope you just expressed yourself badly.  Otherwise you make yourself sound like a train wreck waiting to happen.

 
intersting/commission opportunities; opportunity to make your clients money, and if the trades work you get  a nice commission, if not you max discount the trade. or you can trade in a fee based account.
 
i just think that every wirehouse rep is pitching the same thing - managed money/wrap accounts. i dont think every rep out there should be trading client accounts, but a select few could provide tremendous value to their clients, differenciate themselves, and make some $.
and compared to the results & fees hedge fund managers have been posting, some reps could do the same or better net of fees.
Nov 14, 2008 6:11 am
Vin Diesel:

intersting/commission opportunities; opportunity to make your clients money, and if the trades work you get  a nice commission, if not you max discount the trade. or you can trade in a fee based account.

Good to see you finally mention the issue of client results, which after all is the whole reason for our existence. 

But you're still way off base.  How exactly would you know at the time of the trade which ones will make your clients money, and which ones won't so you can "max discount" those trades or "trade in a fee based account"??  The results of any given trade will only be known well after the fact, at which time you cannot travel back in time and reduce your commission or switch the trade to a fee based account. 

 
Vin Diesel:

i just think that every wirehouse rep is pitching the same thing - managed money/wrap accounts. i dont think every rep out there should be trading client accounts, but a select few could provide tremendous value to their clients, differenciate themselves, and make some $.


and compared to the results & fees hedge fund managers have been posting, some reps could do the same or better net of fees.


Just because you "think that every wirehouse rep is pitching the same thing" does not mean it is true, anymore than it would be for a wirehouse rep thinking  that every bank rep is pitching the same thing.  But even if it were true, your insistence that reps should seek to differentiate themselves by 'trading client accounts' is a very dangerous one. 

If this doesn't make sense to you, ask yourself this question: if this approach would be beneficial for most clients AND you would make more commissions AND the b/d (whether a bank or wirehouse) would make more money, then why do you suppose b/ds make it impossible or so difficult to use this strategy?  If this were the win/win/win you think it to be, don't you think the b/ds would be pushing their reps to use it, not prohibiting or limiting it?

Nov 14, 2008 12:29 pm

why do you suppose b/ds make it impossible or so difficult to use this strategy? 

 i think from a compliance standpoint its very difficult. However if you look at some of the biggest producers at institutional firms(goldman, former bear & lehman) that serve retail clients, they trade clients accounts aggresively.
 
btw: being a bank rep i do sell quite a bit of va's
 
 
Nov 14, 2008 1:31 pm

Vin,

You really are fixated on this notion that certain mysterious reps somewhere "trade client accounts aggressively," aren't you?  You must have some reason for this belief, right?  Can you cite anything that supports your belief that this is common?

I think maybe you've been watching too many movies like Wall Street lately.  But I'm willing to consider evidence to the contrary ... if you have any.

Otherwise, Vin, you might want to consider this advice from Will Rogers: When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

Nov 14, 2008 1:49 pm

morphius,


I started my career at one of those institutional firms(clue - not goldman) and the reps traded large retail client accounts. So I guess I sometimes miss the ability to "trade", especially in these volitile markets.
 
And while the preception that every Wirehouse Rep pitches Managed Money, and every Bank rep pushes VA's is exaturated - its not that far off.
 
 
Nov 14, 2008 2:06 pm

There is a big difference between trading "aggressively" and having the ability to trade or simply trading.  Maybe we're just focusing on different ends of the spectrum in this conversation - I'm reacting to the idea of "aggressive" trading as a way to generate commissions or to differentiate oneself, and maybe you are just really focused on missing being able to trade at all.

Either way, lunchtime is over.  Let's see if we can't push the market way up in the last two hours like yesterday, shall we?!

Nov 14, 2008 2:29 pm

I don't want to jinx it, but damn we're almost at par again


edit: jinxed it, damnit. 

Dec 11, 2008 5:51 pm
I have been very actively trading with great success. I averaged over 3% in my accounts that I use my system in. Will do better than that this month depending on how it goes until next Friday.
Dec 11, 2008 6:26 pm

"in my accounts" are those your personal or client accounts?  i hope you're trading client accounts and making some $$$$

Dec 11, 2008 7:53 pm

All accounts are clients. I have no money If I did I wouldnt trade as 1) I want no emotional ties 2) Don't want to dilute my efforts.