What will a WFC/WB retention package look like?

By the way, I don’t know how the legal ramifications will work out but I am sure Wachovia shareholders want old Vikram to scram. One commentator on CNBC made the point that surely WB and WFC have a few contract attorneys that reviewed the Citi documents and felt they had grounds to proceed. At least that is what everyone other than C shareholders hope is the case.

I work in a large Wachovia office and there has been considerable talk over a proposed retention package in regards to the Wells Fargo acquisition.  One interesting point to keep in mind is that the Legacy AGE employees received a decent upfront (50% of trailing 12 for $500k level) whereas the Wachovia Securities brokers did receive a check to stay in their seats, but at a smaller amount.

I am not a huge fc and I can probably get something approaching 100% TT elsewhere. I would prefer not to move so I will wait a little while for the dust to settle (I’ve used that term about 100 times with clients this week).

this is an interesting time.  As someone who went to ML with a upfront package, I wonder too if they will give me a retention package.  My guess is they will not.   My other guess for my old age friends is that they may sweeten the pot, but not by as much as you would hope.  One thing for sure, we need to keep the communication alive for everyone to make wise decisions.

They still have to complete the age/ws merger.

It's Saturday afternoon and 23 of the brokers in our office got together for a "town meeting".   The general tone is that if there is not a substantial retention package, we are going to open an office across the street. 

[quote=Jeroxide]

It’s Saturday afternoon and 23 of the brokers in our office got together for a “town meeting”. The general tone is that if there is not a substantial retention package, we are going to open an office across the street.

Go_Long,

You went on and on about how bad things are and how “the clients and the reps have about had it”, yet your conclusion is “I would be very disappointed and surprised if there is not a retention package in the works.”  

Huh?

How would a retention package improve one single thing you just railed against?  Either everything you are complaining about is important and needs to be fixed regardless of retention money, or it’s not important and you’re just whining. 

You need to get clear in your own mind which it is, as your answer will make your future choices clearer. 

[quote=Jeroxide]

It’s Saturday afternoon and 23 of the brokers in our office got together for a “town meeting”.   The general tone is that if there is not a substantial retention package, we are going to open an office across the street. 

Has anyone talked to Janney Montgomery Scott regarding an upfront bonus?  I'd be curious what some of the other top 15 firms are offering us to move.....

Judgw just ruled against WFC/WB deal…Looks like it will not go through, or will tied up in courts for a long long time.  Maybe should not spend the retention $$ yet.

what a mess, does that mean Wells gets the brokerage, but the courts will decide on the banking side?

[quote=Jeroxide]

Has anyone talked to Janney Montgomery Scott regarding an upfront bonus?  I'd be curious what some of the other top 15 firms are offering us to move.....

Do you really think that the Citi deal in its present form will get shareholder approval? No way.

[quote=Go_Long]

Do you really think that the Citi deal in its present form will get shareholder approval? No way.

A WB/WFC retention deal would probably look like the AGE/WB deal. I am told that the MER/BAC retention deal will look like the AGE/WB retention deal. I suspect that for AGE reps, the WFC retention will be a small add on, not a whole new pile of cash.

"Wells Fargo Says Takeover Agreement With Wachovia Still Stands

By Ari Levy



Oct. 5 (Bloomberg) – Wells Fargo & Co. said nothing in a court order obtained by New York-based Citigroup Inc. derails the California bank’s plans to acquire Wachovia Corp.



Wells Fargo and Wachovia have a firm, binding merger agreement,'' the San Francisco-based bank said today in a Business Wire statement.That agreement represents a transaction that, in stark contrast to Citigroup’s proposal’’ benefits shareholders and taxpayers, the company said. Wachovia, based in Charlotte, North Carolina, earlier affirmed it plans to proceed.



Citigroup, the biggest U.S. bank by assets, bid $2.16 billion last week for parts of Wachovia including the branch network, and Wells Fargo followed by offering $15 billion for the whole company, including the money-losing mortgage unit. Citigroup said a New York judge last night extended its sole right to negotiate with Wachovia.



The order by New York State Supreme Court Judge Charles Ramos doesn’t have any effect on the validity of the Wells Fargo agreement,'' Wachovia said in its own statement.The agreement is in the best interests of shareholders, employees, creditors and retirees as well as the American taxpayers.’’"





I wonder how WFC and WB will get out of this, what do they seem to know that we don’t.

It’s called capitalism and the best deal for the public good (in my biased opinion). With my few hundred shares of WB, I am sure to move to needle.

This must be what they seem to know that we don’t. From the meeting in Federal Court today:





[QUOTE]

The $700 billion federal bailout of the banking industry passed by Congress includes language that permits Wells Fargo to step in, Wachovia’s lawyers told U.S. District Court Judge John Koeltl today at an emergency hearing in Manhattan. Citigroup disputed that claim in court filings.



Koeltl said that it ``appears’’ Wachovia has the superior argument. He declined to make a ruling on the dispute, giving the parties until Oct. 7 to file briefs on the matter. Lawyers for both sides said they were prepared for a trial in the case.

[/quote]



Ok - Bonus points for the person that finds the provision in Friday’s bill that Wachovia is arguing.

[quote=fritz]Judgw just ruled against WFC/WB deal…Looks like it will not go through, or will tied up in courts for a long long time.  Maybe should not spend the retention $$ yet.[/quote]
This is wrong. All the judge did was grant a TRO that blocks the Wells deal until a trial is held and arguments are heard. I believe this is scheduled for Friday. Then a decision will be made.

My guess is that Citi loses. And then the question is, what happens to Citi. Without all those deposits that they seem to have needed, just how strong, or weak, are they?

I’d be worried as a C shareholder, which I am not. As a WB employee and shareholder, I am just numb.

Gordon, i know how you feel. As a C shareholder and employee, i am numb, AND worried!
Thank goodness i had this terrible habit of selling any restricted stock as i received it, since i am with the company.

I can proactively deal with either outcome…its the uncertainty and waiting that is tough to wait out.  At this point, next Friday feels like it will be another year away.

Well, looks like the next battle is not going to be Friday in a NY court, but Tuesday, in a Fed court…

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081005/wells_fargo_wachovia.html

Its looking more and more like WFC getting the WB securities is going to happen one way or another, either by taking all of WB or by giving some of the bank branches to C to get them to go away.

[quote=Go_Long]Its looking more and more like WFC getting the WB securities is going to happen one way or another, either by taking all of WB or by giving some of the bank branches to C to get them to go away.

What are you expecting, stage coach piggy banks? 

[quote=Go_Long] Its looking more and more like WFC getting the WB securities is going to happen one way or another, either by taking all of WB or by giving some of the bank branches to C to get them to go away.

What are you expecting, stage coach piggy banks? 

Fritz sounds like a disgruntled AGE guy…Wells does not want the brokerage assets…they want the brokers AND the brokerage footprint. Retention is an absolute must for a company in absolute turmoil like WB is…

What did BAC offer MER reps?

MER retention is not out yet, but I’m hearing rumors that it may turn out to be rather disappointing. We shall see

i think anyone dreaming about a big retention package is dreaming. The world has changed. There is no place to go! The deals are coming down.

I would be surprised if ws reps get much of anything(I am one of them). Where would the cash come from?

Gordo:

I heard an entire legacy AGE office moved today. I get their frustration, but TODAY? Just hump it out a little longer to see who the parent company is and if there is a retention. That plus the market action is a crap time to move.

What do you care if someone else decided to move? 

For those without the nads, now is always a bad time.  

Don’t care because their move affects me exactly zero. I was making a comment on their bad timing, but you obviously lack decent reading comprehension.



There are bad times to make a move and this is one of those times. A little patience goes a long way.

I comprehend fine.  You are of the opinion this is a bad time to move.  I am of the opinion that most people always find a reason why today is always a bad time to move. 

Those who look for an excuse always find one.  Those who look for a way always find one too. 

Hey Ferris,

I am vaguely aware that there is something going on with the markets right now, and can even understand that this market makes it seem like a horrible time to contemplate a move.  I get that. 

There is also this reality in this same news: many clients are so fed up with the news of big financial firms being in trouble, bought out, bailed out, bankrupted, merged and otherwise turned upside down that many would actually WELCOME a change.  Of course many are shell shocked, but do you think they are happy with the deer-in-the-headlights status quo?  Especially those who in just over a year have been whip-sawed from AGE to Wachovia to Citibank to independent to maybe AGE again to Wells to forget about Citi to … whatever comes next.  I’ve actually gotten calls from clients thanking me for getting them out of Wachovia before all this happened.  Not complaining about these markets - thanking me!

Maybe we underestimate our clients.  Maybe WE’RE the ones too afraid to act.  Maybe - just maybe - this is an IDEAL opportunity to make that move.  

Crazier things have happened.

Maybe we underestimate our clients.  Maybe WE’RE the ones too afraid to act.  Maybe - just maybe - this is an IDEAL opportunity to make that move.  

moving should be the last resort.  I moved last year, that did not seem like a very good time…It never feels like a good time to move.

[quote=Ferris Bueller] [quote=Morphius] I’ve actually gotten calls from clients thanking me for getting them out of Wachovia before all this happened.  Not complaining about these markets - thanking me!Maybe we underestimate our clients.  Maybe WE’RE the ones too afraid to act.  Maybe - just maybe - this is an IDEAL opportunity to make that move.   Crazier things have happened.

[/quote]



Thanking you for what? I’m not aware of any Wachovia clients losing money because of the merger. Has the SPIC had to step in or even the FDIC? Oh sure, there has been a little uncertainty lately, but nothing an intelligent advisor can’t explain to clients. They expect me to lead rationally and with an INFORMED decision, not with blind fear.   My clients have repeatedly told me that they will go wherever I go, but I tell them that we need to wait and see the final outcome. Wells Fargo is now the largest bank in the US and one of the top brokerage firms. I’m glad I waited, I did the right thing for my clients.[/quote]
I’m glad to hear you believe you have done the right thing for your clients, and if your clients agree than that’s all that really matters.

I wasn’t intending to toss stones at Wachovia, Ferris.  I’ve told my clients this wasn’t about running away from problems at Wachovia, and that in fact I still felt Wachovia (Securities, anyway) was among the best of it’s competitors.  it was about moving to a business model that I believed better served them and me.  There was no blind fear involved, especially since the move took place before all this recent craziness started.

What they have thanked me for is having one less thing to stress out over during stressful times.   It’s not a matter of if it can be explained or not, but having one less thing to HAVE TO explain.  And it’s just further reinforcement for me of what we all really hope anyway - that our clients are doing business with US, not our firm … whichever that might be.

So if your judgement is that it’s best for your clients to stay with WS until you can see the final outcome, then I say great.  There are far worse places for clients or FAs to be for sure.  My point was simply that the market turmoil ALONE should not automatically prevent those who otherwise might like to move from doing so.

“We know this has been a time of great uncertainty for Wachovia team members and many of its customers as their company has gone through a very painful and challenging time,” Wells Fargo Chief Executive John Stumpf said late Thursday. “We want to assure them we’ll do everything we can to make the integration of our operations as smooth as possible. An important measure of success for this integration will be our ability to retain as many of the talented Wachovia team members as possible.”

“ An important measure of success for this integration will be our ability to retain as many of the talented Wachovia team members as possible.”

So you would say to half the advisors they are not talented. LOL.  Good thing you weren’t in charge of the last retention package… or this next one.

I would say that Wells is probably much more interested in keeping producers of 500k + rather than those doing 300k or less and that their limited resources will go towards doing just that.  Doesn’t mean those doing less than 300k are not talented, but will there be any tears being shed if they get upset at not getting a retention bonus and leave? Probably not. What Wells should do is tell the bigger producers that they’ll give them an additional bonus based on assets they can keep of anybody who leaves.

Talented  perhaps - Productive not so much from the wirehouse mentality viewpoint.

It stinks for us rookies. I went through all the bull shit, forget prospecting these lasst few weeks. My ttm in month 14 is 120k+ I wont get anything but even harder time prospecting. Yeah I know … wa ha ha ha. The entire thing sucks all the way around for us noobs.

I still think there will be something for “legacy AGE FC’s”. Bottom line is that Danny and the gang have had the book thrown at them by Chairman Council producers (and above) over the past 3 weeks.  They know we are all on the verge of leaving and if we get little, we will walk.  I think, like ML, they will “build a wall” around the top 2/3’s of BOTH WS and AGE. Bottom 1/3’s, sorry, there will not be much, if any, meat left on the bone.   I don’t expect to hear any details for 6 weeks at least.

what do you think they will do to all the west coast wachovia isg reps.  they have been on a massive recruiting campaign for the last 1-2years and took many reps from wells fargo and also other banks to fill the world savings bank branches that wachovia acquired.  do you think with the common footprint on the west coast with the wachovia and wells fargo locations now, that these guys will be out on the street-if they decide to consolidate branches?  i can only imagine the bad blood between guys that left wellsfargo to go to the world saving/wachovia branches that are now going to be back with wells. 

[quote=shredder]I still think there will be something for “legacy AGE FC’s”. Bottom line is that Danny and the gang have had the book thrown at them by Chairman Council producers (and above) over the past 3 weeks.  They know we are all on the verge of leaving and if we get little, we will walk.  I think, like ML, they will “build a wall” around the top 2/3’s of BOTH WS and AGE. Bottom 2/3’s, sorry, there will not be much, if any, meat left on the bone.   I don’t expect to hear any details for 6 weeks at least.[/quote]

Umm…so they have 4/3 d’s of a brokerage sales force then?

[quote=shredder]I still think there will be something for “legacy AGE FC’s”. Bottom line is that Danny and the gang have had the book thrown at them by Chairman Council producers (and above) over the past 3 weeks.  They know we are all on the verge of leaving and if we get little, we will walk.  I think, like ML, they will “build a wall” around the top 2/3’s of BOTH WS and AGE. Bottom 2/3’s, sorry, there will not be much, if any, meat left on the bone.   I don’t expect to hear any details for 6 weeks at least.[/quote]

Umm…so they have 4/3 d’s of a brokerage sales force then?

Wrong topic here but someone hear might have heard something, hearing if Govt takes ownership of MS this weekend there is going to be a complete overhaul of compensation.  Hearing commission grid will go down to a small fraction of what it is now, bottom line is major pay reduction from what I hear.   Salary + small grid%..

Everybody has an opinion, but I am hearing that a Wach Sec retention bonus is goign to be int he 30% range, with a 5 year cliff.  Not sure that is going to be enough to keep a lot of people around, guys are looking, but the market is tough.  CLients seem to be enthused with the Wells Fargo merger, not so much because of the name, but because there is now a definitive future (we hope).

I’m not surprised. I think the retention packages at Wach and  ML are going to be meager, based on the environment we are in.

This thread seems to revolve almost entirely around FA’s being disgruntled because of mergers, acquisitions, news headlines and future uncertainties. Those that are with some of these companies making the headlines want to get paid for doing nothing more than “staying in their seats”. I have heard nobody mention poor investment platforms, research or technology. These are the tools that you use to assist your clients. THAT is your job and what you should be paid for! If you are not happy with your current B/D, then leave. If I were a client of yours, I would not care about whether or not you received a check to stay, I would want to know how your leaving benefits ME, the client. Many of these large firms made investments over the past years that allowed them to pay us larger bonuses, large up front cash incentives and P/S contributions. We did not complain while that was going on. These same investments have collapsed, placing many firms in jeopardy and getting a lot of negative press and NOW some want to be paid again just to stay. Guys and gals, that is a big part of what is wrong with our industry. We always want to get paid for things. We get paid, handsomely I might add, for managing assets. If you are not happy, make sure the reasons focus on what is best for your clients and not yourself. (ie. Some say they should receive compensation for putting up with the turmoil of a merger or for numerous client questions. How does receiving a check make things better FOR THE CLIENT?). If your home office support is lousy and it is affecting how you serve your clients, make a change to a company that has great home office support. Bottom line: Don’t stay for the wrong reasons and leave only for the right ones. Expect to get paid for managing assets and expectations, nothing else.

In this environment cant believe anyone would sign anything to stay anywhere for more than a week.

On Friday, Danny Ludeman did say that a retention package is appropriate any time there is a change of ownership.  However, I can’t see this package being that large. 

I do not believe there will be different packages for leagacy AGE and WB advisors.  They are trying to pull the team together, the last thing they should do is treat them differently.

[quote=Go_Long]I do not believe there will be different packages for leagacy AGE and WB advisors.  They are trying to pull the team together, the last thing they should do is treat them differently.

um, you’re wrong. They’ve been treating you differently since day one.

Thanks for the concern but I don’t need to take a breath, and it’s not an obssession. Just normal curiosity.

My prediction is that with all the deals still going on out there (I'm Legacy AGE and was just offered 100% plus bonus from Janney Montgomery and 100% + performance payout from RBC), we will still receive a nice retention from WFC.  Well Fargo is a highly respected firm and I'm sure they will want to retain the top talent (maybe even the top 2/3rd like the BAC/ML deal).

100% + is solid unless production exceeds $500k, at which point 125%-150% cash + back end is out there.

WFC retention will be probably applicable for $350k+ producers with it being tiered up to pay out max 35-40% over 3 or 5 years.  The retention will not be able to compete with other firm’s transition deals, but will incent an otherwise loyal and happy FA to stay aboard.

My what a nice little thread I started!

I think it will be close to what Merrill gets. Then we will be so expensive that the other Firms can not move us . Profit Formula and Finet will grow if we are allowed to move and keep retention. Pru and recruits got front money or retention a long time ago. It all works out the same. If you are making  up your mind based on money …you will stay…says Warren.

I am looking at selling my old car to Car Max because it has deteriorated over the years and psychologically I would be relieved to dump it. Might take a mini bath on the sale but good ridance. I am coming to the conclusion that my old car is similar to WS.

we had another team in cali transition to LPL .   More to come if no package.  

Guys, if Wells uses the BAI retention for ML as a guide, everyone over $500k is going to be very disappointed.  Those under $500k are going to be left on the sidelines I hear.  There’s a decent chance there’s a small wave of movement out on the bad news but I doubt many move. Too many FAs I talk to just don’t have the stomach to deal with the transition. Interestingly enough, I think it’ll be mostly $750k+ guys who jump and they can get seriously paid elsewhere still.  Nobody’s paying much for the smaller FAs right now. 

WFC/WS retention will be small if any…the BAC deal will set the bar.  All this talk out of Danny about a retention bonus is just that, talk.  It will be small if any.  For some, it will be the final nail in the coffin.  With deals on the street going down, there will be many that try to recoup some $ by leaving sooner rather than later.  Like it or not both BAC and WFC are in the drivers seat for several reason: 1. The market sucks in case you haven’t noticed. 2. Deals are already slipping a little. 3. They realize that they will be Gov’t appointed “survivors” and will use that as leverage.  4. The banks are notoriously cheap and beleive that we are all overpaid prima donnas. 5. There attitiude is, “go ahead, I dare you to leave.”

In my opinion, you guys at Wach/AG are floating on pipe dreams. There will be no retention package. Seriously. They just doled one out a year ago. Plus, can you imagine the PR nightmare that ANOTHER retention package will cause?

[quote=shredder] 4. The banks are notoriously cheap and beleive that we are all overpaid prima donnas. [/quote]

This is a key idea here… the banks WILL try to break you guys. There is now way banks will let FA’s make more than their CFO’s, CEO’s, COO’s etc.

I have to admit, you guys are not exactly making my day with this news.  I think I will go with the “ignorance is bliss” approach.

I’m fairly certain this won’t be a popular opinion, but as someone on the outside of the AGE/WB/WFC or the BAC/MER mess looking in, why do you feel you’re entitled to several hundred thousand dollars just to stay in your seat (particularly you AGE guys who just had a bone thrown to you 18 months ago)? Maybe a little more gratitude that you still have a job at this point and a little more focus on the fact that your clients are getting killed by the market and are much more concerned with their portfolios than they are you, which company you work for, or which company is buying that company. Seems like that’s what you get paid for. 

It’s not so much a feeling of entitlement as a feeling of “Oh my god… please… not again!”

In my opinion, you guys at Wach/AG are floating on pipe dreams. There will be no retention package. Seriously. They just doled one out a year ago. Plus, can you imagine the PR nightmare that ANOTHER retention package will cause?

Shredder, you are correct, and if they do not come thru with SOMETHING, I wonder how that is going to go over with the masses??    I would rather that nobody had ever mentioned anything at this point, and I could go back to work.  After hearing what it seems everybody else is getting, I now feel as if I am being cheated.  I know, my focus should be on my clients, but it does creap into my thoughts sometimes.

But WS isn’t interested in the broker dealer division. Just as they aren’t interested in the investment banking division. As far as they are concerned, 50% of the FA’s can leave and it’s no sweat off their back. As for the other 50% who don’t get out? Say hello to being a bank employer and getting a payout of about 20%

[quote=duster10] I think I will go with the “ignorance is bliss” approach.[/quote]

hey… it works for the Merrill guys.

[quote=SuperRecruiter]But WS isn’t interested in the broker dealer division. Just as they aren’t interested in the investment banking division. As far as they are concerned, 50% of the FA’s can leave and it’s no sweat off their back. As for the other 50% who don’t get out? Say hello to being a bank employer and getting a payout of about 20%
[/quote]

I call BULLSHIT! I would guess you don’t have an agenda do you?

But WS isn’t interested in the broker dealer division. Just as they aren’t interested in the investment banking division. As far as they are concerned, 50% of the FA’s can leave and it’s no sweat off their back. As for the other 50% who don’t get out? Say hello to being a bank employer and getting a payout of about 20%

[quote=shredder]

This is the same kind of speculation that happened when Bob sold AGE to WB.  Recruiters were calling saying what a terrible retention package we were going to get.  They don’t get paid unless they get people to move.  Check out what other offers you can get, see what WFC offers and make a decision from there.

[quote=Hydeho]
I call BULLSHIT! I would guess you don’t have an agenda do you?
[/quote]

Ofcourse I have an agenda, look at my screen name. I hope to hell everything plays out fine for Wachovia/AGE but if you look at BAC’s agenda and history you will see that they are NOT friendly to B/D’s.

No matter what happens, I will always have a pipeline of FA’s who are interested in shopping around.

[quote=SuperRecruiter] [quote=shredder]

Joined today and time to post 21 times?  I am sure business is good for and your "pipeline’ is full.  The way you present yourself, you’d think you would be busy talking to MS, UBS, and big producers all day. 

Change your screen name to Snapperhead, that one suits you better.

[quote=SuperRecruiter]

[quote=shredder]

I have plenty of subordinates that dial phones all day. That ain’t me.

[quote=SuperRecruiter]I have plenty of subordinates that dial phones all day. That ain’t me.
[/quote]

Snapperhead-  How many placements have you made since this all went down?  Inquiring minds would like to know.

Post deleted.

[quote=SuperRecruiter]But WS isn’t interested in the broker dealer division. Just as they aren’t interested in the investment banking division. As far as they are concerned, 50% of the FA’s can leave and it’s no sweat off their back. As for the other 50% who don’t get out? Say hello to being a bank employer and getting a payout of about 20%

What’s funny about all these posts (mine included) is that you can look back a year and see that most people talk out of their butts. Nobody has a clue but it sure is fun to pontficate!

If none of us has a clue, then we should all be on CNBC!

 To borrow a phrase (from CNBC), they are better historians that predictors.

Speaking of history, and “if those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it,” what warning signs have we all learned to watch for as “tells” that our employer is planning on putting itself into play?  I remember Rapmaster Bobby B. balling up his sweaty, little fist at the super regional in St. L. in fall '06 and declaring from his pudgy little lips that “we are committed to remaining independent, blah, blah.”  If I remember correctly, that was shortly after they totally reworked our company stock purchase plan and shipped us all off to Computershare.  In the future, if RJ starts doing anything to discourage/weaken/distract us from the company stock purchase plan, my radar’s lighting up.  Any other insight?

Let’s see here:

I am of the belief that brokers want to believe the BS top brass spews, mainly because they don't want to have to make a decision to move. I fell into that trap and have realized that the last bullet point above is most certainly true. I also remember fc's clapping when Grand Master B brought up AGE's match to the 401(k). Bob was great at that point!

[quote=SuperRecruiter]

[quote=Hydeho]
I call BULLSHIT! I would guess you don’t have an agenda do you?
[/quote]

Ofcourse I have an agenda, look at my screen name. I hope to hell everything plays out fine for Wachovia/AGE but if you look at BAC’s agenda and history you will see that they are NOT friendly to B/D’s.

No matter what happens, I will always have a pipeline of FA’s who are interested in shopping around.
[/quote]

Ummmm…BAC didn’t buy WB lol! Thats twice in this thread that you have posted things that make you appear you have no idea what is going on!

[quote=eggward]Let’s see here:

I still have some stuff around the office with the old school AGE logo on it. I wonder what AGE would be like if Bob and crew didn't sell us down the river. We didn't have the scale or scope to survive, right? Not enough pick-a-pay mortgages in California.

In retrospect Bob was the biggest winner in the WB/AGE takeover, he cashed out at the peak of the market for a cool $15 million exit package.

I heard Bagby got divorced and lost most of his exit money.

I feel bad for both Bagby and Ken Thompson. They are both pariahs in a company they worked their whole lives at.

I didn’t hear about the divorce but Danny moved up his exit from WS because none of his former troops no longer respected him. Somebody keyed his car badly as a parting gift.

I didn’t hear about the divorce but Danny moved up his exit from WS because none of his former troops no longer respected him. Somebody keyed his car badly as a parting gift.

That was my point, I don’t think these guys have malice in their hearts. They are all puppets in this big capitalism carnival. If Danny is still having conference calls, I haven’t noticed. I stopped listening or caring as they didn’t tell us anything.

I will disagree.  As was previously noted Bob was negotiating and posturing for a sale  while he told the empoloyees over and over that they would stay independent.

[quote=Go_Long]I will disagree.  As was previously noted Bob was negotiating and posturing for a sale  while he told the empoloyees over and over that they would stay independent.

Just got done talking with one of my closest friends still at Agechargo, in fact he’s the guy who recruited me into the business 10 years ago, a 22 year vet, multi mil producer, and based on what he’s saying, hearing and seeing, it doesn’t look like there’s enough freshly printed fiat currency to really anchor any of the legacy AGE guys anymore.  With all the unmitigated mess we’ve all been through this past 18 mos., (ARS, market, “safe investments” getting spanked, clients asking Who’s Your Daddy?), what I’m hearing from him and some of the other guys I’m still in touch with is a complete collapse of any belief in what they’re being told, at all levels within the system.  Not saying RJ is perfect, because nothing is, but if there’s ever a time to make a move somewhere, I think at this point, your clients will actually help you pack up your office and bring freshly baked cookies to your house as you call them over Thanksgiving weekend telling them that the ACATs are in the mail.  No matter how you slice it, the move’s not fun, and I think I’d turn to subsistence farming before I’d ever choose to go through it again, but you need to be somewhere that you and your clients are not distracted by.  Just one guy’s thoughts.

I am a 20 plus year AGE guy and am getting ready to make the jump to RJ in the next couple of weeks.  So far the clients i have spoken with have all stated that they are happy I am moving as they would feel more comfortable with me at RJ.  In fact one client said he has had a referral for me and did not feel comfortable giving me the name while i was at WS.  I beleive that Hayes and Ludeman have no credibilty and should not be trusted.  Besides how can you trust a full grown man that still calls himself Danny.

[quote=Fortune1]

I have been with AGE/WS since 2000 and 600k producer. I m at a point where I dont want to wake up each morning to defend whether we are going to change names again or persuade my clients that their money is safe.  If the retention is small I m headed to LPL. 

[quote=skbroker]I have been with AGE/WS since 2000 and 600k producer. I
m at a point where I dont want to wake up each morning to
defend whether we are going to change names again or persuade my
clients that their money is safe.  If the retention is small I m
headed to LPL.  [/quote]





I suggest that clients can deal with a change from Wachovia to Smith Barney far easier than from Wachovia to LPL.



Again, anybody who is already at a wirehouse suck it up for a couple of years while this whole thing shakes out.

Fortune1, be really careful about talking with ANY clients at this stage, as that can really come back to haunt you if Danny & Co. set the posse after you.  That’s a very touchy area when they start trying to smack you with TRO’s, even if everyone’s doing everything by protocol.  I would begin the “quiet period” if I were you at this point.  Experience (not so fun) speaking here, as far as the posse goes.

Thanks for the advice.  I realize that it is important to be careful because of protocol.

I am a 20 plus year AGE guy and am getting ready to make the jump to RJ in the next couple of weeks.  So far the clients i have spoken with have all stated that they are happy I am moving as they would feel more comfortable with me at RJ.  In fact one client said he has had a referral for me and did not feel comfortable giving me the name while i was at WS.  I beleive that Hayes and Ludeman have no credibilty and should not be trusted.  Besides how can you trust a full grown man that still calls himself Danny.

[quote=shredder]

R Jones, obviously you know nothing about Financial service industry. we really dont care about our clients portfolio or the relationship we have with them.  our job is to make as much money as we can especially in this environment and I hope that we get at 50 percent of our trailing twelve.  another 400k in my pocket be great.

anyone see this.

Saw it and assume nothing is coming from Wells. I think 99% of AGE guys see the writing on the wall and are doing their homework. It actually has not a lot to do with the money. It’s the four name changes in 17 months that has us looking.

[quote=skbroker]

R Jones, obviously you know nothing about Financial service industry. we really dont care about our clients portfolio or the relationship we have with them.  our job is to make as much money as we can especially in this environment and I hope that we get at 50 percent of our trailing twelve.  another 400k in my pocket be great.

A regional manager for WB told me in confidence today that part of the anticipated upcoming retention bonus will be for WB/WFC NOT to retain any broker with a LOS of greater than 5 and TTM less than crest club.  In other words, they will walk you out and forward all outstanding commissions and belongings to you.  They would rather have empty offices than non-producing brokers running up the expenses.   

A regional manager for WB told me in confidence today that part of the anticipated upcoming retention bonus will be for WB/WFC NOT to retain any broker with a LOS of greater than 5 and TTM less than crest club.  In other words, they will walk you out and forward all outstanding commissions and belongings to you.  They would rather have empty offices than non-producing brokers running up the expenses.   

I love these rumors! In a year when the market has (hopefully) settled down I want to fact check these posts. Priceless!

they may have been los less than 5 yrs. plus that’s recruiting bonus not retention.

[QUOTE]

A regional manager for WB told me in confidence today that part of the anticipated upcoming retention bonus will be for WB/WFC NOT to retain any broker with a LOS of greater than 5 and TTM less than crest club.  In other words, they will walk you out and forward all outstanding commissions and belongings to you.  They would rather have empty offices than non-producing brokers running up the expenses.   

So did fc’s listen with bated breath to Danny’s cc today? I assume nothing new was discussed other than the AGE 401k isn’t sweeping as originally planned to WB’s soon-to-be defunct 401k.

Slightly off topic.  I wonder if Wells Fargo will keep the 1-3% profit sharing contribution component that WB recently added. 

I hear (which means nothing) that they will wait a while to let the dust settle. Public perception might matter.

Hahahahahahahah!!! You guys are hilarious!!! Especially the legacy AGE folks. You’re honestly looking for another retention bonus after all this? Every detail about the WB deal was a blatant lie from the get-go, then, WB becomes insolvent and is absorbed by Citi…no, sorry,…Wells?? If you have any clients left, what do you suppose they think about all that??? (“Sure Mr. or Mrs. client, the market, and your account, has TANKED, largely due to the malfeasance of companies like mine, we’re basically bankrupt, but, hey, everything’s OK.”). No wonder my phone at LPL rings off the hook all day long! You inertia-controlled drones deserve whatever “package” (read, “shit sandwich”) they serve you this time. Hahahahahahahah!

time will tell.  I’m nearing 5 years and am in top 15% of training class with $250k trailing.  don’t think that is out of line with other classes.

I’ll be content if the package was simillar to age/wb deal.  sucks to be merrill broker who’s doing less than 750

Seems as if these firms want older, established brokers.  Do any of them think about what happens 10 years from now when those guys retire?

in looking at the last retention dont expect too much for the young guys doing less than 250k but what do I know. I m in my 8th year doing doing little under 600k and I’ll be content with 40% upfront and maybe 20 backend

next retention package will be smaller for anyone under 500, just like merrill.  this business is about being in right place at right time - namely when someone takes you under their wing.  yet to see anyone make it completely on their own.

SKBORKER…you and I are almost identical in LOS and production, but I just do not see them giving us 40% cash upfront. I truly hope I am wrong, but my expectations are low.

Wow!  Looks like 500k is the new piker level, according to BAC, who is now calling the shots.  What a jump up.  I remember just a few years ago some of the big firms would bring out a stroking machine for the 500k guy.  Wonder what the deals are going to look like over at UBS, C, MS.....for the MER 475k producer?

The problem is, now that the banks are calling the shots, 250-500K advisors are not that great.  from their perspective, someone should be doing 250K in their first year.  How many wirehouse brokers who don't have a relative in the business break $150K their first year?Not many.

one more thing, a buddy of mine had a $400k bank broker join his AGE office.  left after 9 months - total production of $37K!

I think you’ll see mass exodus from the AGE legacy side if the retention package is not adequate.  I know we have at 6 people in the branch who are looking to jumping ship to ray jay in the next few months.  I have never been so shameful to say my companies name to prospects.

I guess a 14 month presidents club producer will get zip. Kinda sucks after all the BS I have had to deal with. Guess I’ll just keep my head down and move forward.

WFC has been paying and encouraging tellers to get their 7 the past year.  From my buddies at the bank it has cost him over 100K in gross the past 12 months that 4 tellers in the branch already have their 7 and dont sent the customers to his corner anymore.  Also recently any account under 50K for 90 days becomes a branch account, any trades done or trailers go to the branch.  He says now hundreds of 100K accounts now heading to branch account status due to market pullback…   Looks like like WB/WFC reps going from the frying pan into the fire.

one more thing, a buddy of mine had a $400k bank broker join his AGE office.  left after 9 months - total production of $37K!

AGE Legacy FC here:

[quote=Herman Munster]AGE Legacy FC here:

I would say that a 20% payout on the first 10k production will wipe out alot of fc’s.  When are they going to change the AGE fc’s to the WB grid?

I think that everyone goes to the new grid on January 1st.  I think its supposed to be released next week.

March 1

I heard Jan 1 as well.

Just got back from H/O. Wach reps go on new pay plan Jan 1. Age legacy will be paid there average production for Jan/Feb and start new pay plan March 1.

All managers are in HQ for a jt WS/AGE managers conf.  Grid will be presented to the BOM’s and then rolled out shortly.  It will basically look like the present WS grid, 20% on the first $10k, 50% thereafter.  It WILL include ticket charges to the FA on stock and options.

That will make the fee based folks SO happy about the change this spring to pay out fees on a monthly basis rather than a quarterly basis.  Now more of the fees will hit at the 20% level rather than the 50%.  Sweet.  Wonder how much that alone will cost fee based folks?

I sure do miss having my chain jerked by Danny and the Dominoes. 

I am not sure how the "new math" will work but, I typically avg about 37-39% payout/mo...if you do above $30k/mo, it should be an increase.

[quote=Morphius]That will make the fee based folks SO happy about the change this spring to pay out fees on a monthly basis rather than a quarterly basis.  Now more of the fees will hit at the 20% level rather than the 50%.  Sweet.  Wonder how much that alone will cost fee based folks?

I sure do miss having my chain jerked by Danny and the Dominoes. 

[/quote]

I dont know that it will be a big difference…if you do mostly fee based under the WS plan you would have one month with a really high payout and 2 with super low payouts, so I would think for most it would avg out the same.

ex.

360k producer (Crest Club)

30k per month = 40% payout

50k quarterly (fees) and 11k each month in between =30% payout

Looks like monthly fees works better doesnt it?

It really matters not either monthly or quarterly fees:

Say you did 10k, 10k, 80k… for the quarter  vs. 33.333k, 33.333k, 33.333k…

10k @20% = $2000
10k @ 20%= $2000
80k @ 20% first 10k and 50% next 70K = $37000   total = $41,000

or


33.333k @ 20% first 10k and 50% of the remaining 23.333k = $2000 + $11,666 =$13666 a month…

Times 3 = the same $41,000!

What matters will be the ticket charges to the transactional guys. Or any other surprises they may spring.  The high end FC’s will still be taken care of at the expense of the low end.

apparently, this is Danny’s “best practices”…adopting Wachovia paygrid.

Not to sour the mood around here, but ISG is on a totally different grid.  500K is at the 38% from penny one each month, and the grid is retroactive for the year.  You normally start the grid 2 grid levels back from where you finished the previous year (next year may be even more as it will be difficult to duplicate this years production).  It will be curious to see if there is a universal grid that we all work under.

I seriously doubt that the management would mentioned that the retention for WS/Legacy AGE is on the works and not offer one.   

That will make the fee based folks SO happy about the change this spring to pay out fees on a monthly basis rather than a quarterly basis.  Now more of the fees will hit at the 20% level rather than the 50%.  Sweet.  Wonder how much that alone will cost fee based folks?

The monthly payout vs. quarterly started this March, ‘08.  I am 80% advisory and I saw no difference in my pay.  However, because we are still on the AGE fiscal year till Feb 09, I did lose 1/3rd of my Quarterly trails.  Normally I wouldn't care, but given this market and its effects on my reoccurring revenue, it may end up being the difference between getting to Crest Club or not!

Additionally, I ran the numbers on the WB grid.  Breakeven, after the AGE bonus at $300K, is somewhere around $330K...

Wow! WB finally announced the “new” AGE pay grid, and it just happens to be WB’s existing pay grid? Amazing! Who would have guessed it?! Now that you’ve been slow-fed that line of shit for a year and a half, (and swallowed every mouthfull) WB has gone insolvent and sold you out…again…before the AGE deal is even formally completed??? No problem, right? There’ll be another “Retention Package” and the new, new grid at Wells will just great, too, right??? You legacy AGE guys who are still posting here are 1) Lazy, 2) Scared, 3) Just Loser Employees, not Real Businesspeople or all three. That goes in spades for the huge bullshitters like Ferris, who is a liar to boot. Either you are lying about your production or about being guided by some type of inherent “integrity” of your firm and it being in both your and your clients’ best interest to stay put, or, most likely, both.

YHWY,

yhwy,

Have you always been such an angry little man?

Wow! WB finally announced the “new” AGE pay grid, and it just happens to be WB’s existing pay grid? Amazing! Who would have guessed it?! Now that you’ve been slow-fed that line of shit for a year and a half, (and swallowed every mouthfull) WB has gone insolvent and sold you out…again…before the AGE deal is even formally completed??? No problem, right? There’ll be another “Retention Package” and the new, new grid at Wells will just great, too, right??? You legacy AGE guys who are still posting here are 1) Lazy, 2) Scared, 3) Just Loser Employees, not Real Businesspeople or all three. That goes in spades for the huge bullshitters like Ferris, who is a liar to boot. Either you are lying about your production or about being guided by some type of inherent “integrity” of your firm and it being in both your and your clients’ best interest to stay put, or, most likely, both.

YHWY,  you hit it the nail on the head.  Great post. 

I'm sorry for my former AGE buddies, but even a lot of those guys with good production are just not true business owners.  Its the same reason the majority of the ML guys will stand still thru whatever BAC spoon feeds them.  We have too many salespeople in this industry looking for the easy buck. 

[quote=GoingIndy???]

YHWY,  you hit it the nail on the head.  Great post. 

I'm sorry for my former AGE buddies, but even a lot of those guys with good production are just not true business owners.  Its the same reason the majority of the ML guys will stand still thru whatever BAC spoon feeds them.  We have too many salespeople in this industry looking for the easy buck. 

As an RIA I am still with shredder on this.  Independence has many advantages, but it’s not without disadvantages and it certainly is not the best choice for everyone.  And as much as I value my independence, harping about being “true business owners” is silly.  I can think of plenty “true business owners” in various industries who would kill for the freedom and income generating potential that most reps enjoy even in a wirehouse. 

What’s the point of beating a dead horse?  It’s all relative.

I’m just pointing out that even in the wire/regional world there are guys/gals that should be in the biz, while others should not.  Some are business owners, others are salespeople.  Look around your own office and I’m sure you can point out some that shouldn’t be there.  Even worse there are others at other companies that give us all a bad name that are all about the quick buck or jamming some annuity down a clients throat the last few days of the production month.  These aren’t true business owners in it for the long term.   It goes for some of the indy’s too, but they are taking more risk for themselves, their family and juggling more responsibilities, that’s all. 

I just found out that the new grid is not exactly the same as the current Wachovia grid. It isn’t even close. It is much better. Do any of you ever tell the truth in these forums? I guess you just try to get as many people as you can to jump ship. Why would anyone leave now. If you have been hanging around this long you may as well stick it out and be happy you will be working for the premier firm in the industry.  Wells Fargo!! Hopefully they change the name to Wells.

[quote=Gaddock]Well, I’m with AGE. Today our office started answering the phones as AGE again (I purged my office of every and anything that has anything with WB on it.).[/quote]
Was this change away from WB back to AGE based on a corporate directive or did your branch just “go rogue”?

[quote=Morphius] [quote=Gaddock]Well, I’m with AGE. Today our office started answering the phones as AGE again (I purged my office of every and anything that has anything with WB on it.).[/quote]
Was this change away from WB back to AGE based on a corporate directive or did your branch just “go rogue”?

I just found out that the new grid is not exactly the same as the current Wachovia grid. It isn’t even close. It is much better. Do any of you ever tell the truth in these forums? I guess you just try to get as many people as you can to jump ship. Why would anyone leave now. If you have been hanging around this long you may as well stick it out and be happy you will be working for the premier firm in the industry.  Wells Fargo!! Hopefully they change the name to Wells.

I understand the reasons and logical advantages to using the AGE name rather than the WB name.  But of course anyone in this industry any length of time knows that what makes sense and what is allowed from a compliance standpoint are often two very different things.  Certainly the name of the firm you are representing is among those things.

What I am curious about is if there was a ‘compliance approved’ decision to use the AGE name.  Apparently not, or I presume that would be pretty big news.

If that’s the case, Gaddock, please tread carefully.  The best intentions are of little help if things ‘get legal’ on you, and if your BOM is already down the creek.

I understand the reasons and logical advantages to using the AGE name rather than the WB name.  But of course anyone in this industry any length of time knows that what makes sense and what is allowed from a compliance standpoint are often two very different things.  Certainly the name of the firm you are representing is among those things.

What I am curious about is if there was a ‘compliance approved’ decision to use the AGE name.  Apparently not, or I presume that would be pretty big news.

If that’s the case, Gaddock, please tread carefully.  The best intentions are of little help if things ‘get legal’ on you, and if your BOM is already down the creek.

I appreciate the concern and advice.

[quote=Go_Long]

AGE Broker5 You say you know what the new grid is, how about sharing with the rst of us AGE brokers.

Ask your manager when he gets back. It will be out in writting Monday so I’m told.

any word on retention packages yet?

I have been hearing through the grape vine we will hear something in the next 2 weeks.

Gaddock is correct: 24% first $10k, 50% thereafter. There is some confusions as to ticket charges....I have heard no ticket charges but then ticket charges if you discount...don't know what % or if there is a floor/ceiling. The name is either AGE or Wells Fargo Investments/Securities...I heard an interesting comment that most AGE reg. mgrs did not want to go back to AGE and wanted to move on, the WS reg. mgrs wanted the AGE name.....Would have made life alot easier if we had just kept the name  I don't know if I truly believe that WFC will leave that up to Danny....that sounds too much like spin. Retention is "weeks away"...whatever that means.

Let the AGE name die gracefully.

[quote=Broker Fee]Let the AGE name die gracefully.

Just a quick observation on all the people that I read who are down on Danny Ludeman and Wachovia, there seem to be quite a few.  I respectfully think you’re crazy.  And I really get sick of these negative people who just complain and complain and offer no positive alternatives.  I think its the recruiters calling daily like the voice of doom trying to suck you into moving.  At Wachovia Danny Ludeman  made sure everyone had a chance to meet him, he’s never hidden from questions, and the payout is right up there, probably the best on the street.  If it is not enough for you, you can go Finet - you can go Profit Formula - whatever you want.  No pressure!  What other major firm even comes close to offering that?  And, was the securities side responsible for World Savings? I thought it was the bank.  Besides that, for those of you complaining about the uncertainty in ownership and the eventual takeover by Wells Fargo, what other securities firm hasn’t felt the heat in this terrible market.  And, how bad is Wells Fargo?  I’d say it’s not bad at all.  I think its solid.  Would you rather BankAmerica or Citigroup? Back to my point, I’ve been around to a couple of other firms and if I tried to shake hands with the CEO security would have jumped me!  Ludeman had us down to his house for dinner and introduced his family.  What do you people want?  Not to mention for just sitting here I’ve received tens of thousands in bonuses and now we are apparently getting more?  If ticket charges go down and the under 10K percentage payout goes up, this will be the highest payout wire house on the street, a big firm, a big name, and big advertising - what on earth is the problem?  And I would suggest that, in this nauseating market, big is better.  As an example, how are some independents going to find the money to pay up for the Auction Rate Preferreds?  I’d assume they don’t have it so the clients might be stuck.  And, as has been the case, I assume the retention package Wachovia offers will be more than fair - when hasn’t it been in the past?  The payout will also be strong, in our case it has to be because Wachovia offers open alternatives of Finet and Profit Formula.  The wirehouse payout has to stay competitive with those options or brokers will simply switch.  For those of you complaining, show me a big three wirehouse that offers a better payout and the Finet or Profit Formula alternative.  Show me an independent firm that will back you up on stuff like auction rate preferreds and spend hundreds of millions in advertising.  If you can’t - stop buying in to all the negativity and finally… stop your whining.       

Just a quick observation on all the people that I read who are down on Danny Ludeman and Wachovia, there seem to be quite a few.  I respectfully think you’re crazy.  And I really get sick of these negative people who just complain and complain and offer no positive alternatives.  I think its the recruiters calling daily like the voice of doom trying to suck you into moving.  At Wachovia Danny Ludeman  made sure everyone had a chance to meet him, he’s never hidden from questions, and the payout is right up there, probably the best on the street.  If it is not enough for you, you can go Finet - you can go Profit Formula - whatever you want.  No pressure!  What other major firm even comes close to offering that?  And, was the securities side responsible for World Savings? I thought it was the bank.  Besides that, for those of you complaining about the uncertainty in ownership and the eventual takeover by Wells Fargo, what other securities firm hasn’t felt the heat in this terrible market.  And, how bad is Wells Fargo?  I’d say it’s not bad at all.  I think its solid.  Would you rather BankAmerica or Citigroup? Back to my point, I’ve been around to a couple of other firms and if I tried to shake hands with the CEO security would have jumped me!  Ludeman had us down to his house for dinner and introduced his family.  What do you people want?  Not to mention for just sitting here I’ve received tens of thousands in bonuses and now we are apparently getting more?  If ticket charges go down and the under 10K percentage payout goes up, this will be the highest payout wire house on the street, a big firm, a big name, and big advertising - what on earth is the problem?  And I would suggest that, in this nauseating market, big is better.  As an example, how are some independents going to find the money to pay up for the Auction Rate Preferreds?  I’d assume they don’t have it so the clients might be stuck.  And, as has been the case, I assume the retention package Wachovia offers will be more than fair - when hasn’t it been in the past?  The payout will also be strong, in our case it has to be because Wachovia offers open alternatives of Finet and Profit Formula.  The wirehouse payout has to stay competitive with those options or brokers will simply switch.  For those of you complaining, show me a big three wirehouse that offers a better payout and the Finet or Profit Formula alternative.  Show me an independent firm that will back you up on stuff like auction rate preferreds and spend hundreds of millions in advertising.  If you can’t - stop buying in to all the negativity and finally… stop your whining.       

I totally agree with you sell high. I was a 13 year AGE vet. I personally can't see why everyone is so negative. Yes it would have been nice to have never been bought but we were. I can't even imagine how many accounts I would have taken from our local Wachovia office. We can't change the past. So move on. We are all going to be glad we stuck around. Wachovia has done everything they said they were going to do so far. They met us in the middle on just about every front just like they said. We even get to keep are AGE 401k. Great every fund is down 40% just like everyone else. Yes we all can agree that the Golden West purchase was a goof. Does that mean Wachovia is the evil empire? I don't think so. They are a firm that is a mix of several great companies. Prudential, A.G. Edwards, and now Wells Fargo. What is so bad about that? Take a look at the Grid at Merrill, Smith Barney, and others. If you like an average of 25 to 30% payout then leave. You can make a 40% payout under the new Wachovia plan by only making 26K a month. If you aren't making at least that you should be working at Wal Mart. Come on people wake up. You can't control what has already happened. You can only control what you do next. I suggest you sit tight and enjoy another retention bonus. I plan too. Yes danny say's UMM a lot. It drives me nuts too. I have been saying UMM a bunch too when the market is up 250 and 3:57 and closes down a 100 3 min. later. Good day!

Wow the angst here is surprising. So what is it exactly that Wachovia Securities did that was so wrong AGE brokers? They didn’t purchase nor were they even consulted with about Golden West.   If you want to leave leave because you are concerned about the cultural changes coming or leave because you dont want to go through the transition of another firm. Leave because you do not want to experience the pain of systems failure when the system load is doubled in February. Leave because you dont want to go through the problems created by the transition that will effect your clients.



You leave because you feel that you can not conduct your business or that the direction of the firm is in opposition of how you serve your clients. You leave because you are tired of the “firm” putting its name in the press for things it shouldn’t be doing.

Has anyone heard anything on the WB retention package?  Too quiet out there…

BukiRob2:

I am with ISG. We had a meeting Wednesday night and Wachovia Securities Top Dogs are in the process of finishing up a “PROPOSAL” to the Wells Fargo Top Dogs. They said it would be 2 to 4 weeks before anything is announced.

Sell High, you may be right on a few things, but one point you should reconsider is the openess to move to finet.  They paid for a brokerage unit and I know guys between 800-1.3Mill in production that were told no.  I was low level presidents and also told no.  These are the facts of the case and they are undisputed.  

[quote=Go_Long] BukiRob2:

I am with ISG. We had a meeting Wednesday night and Wachovia Securities Top Dogs are in the process of finishing up a “PROPOSAL” to the Wells Fargo Top Dogs. They said it would be 2 to 4 weeks before anything is announced.

Sell High, you may be right on a few things, but one point you should reconsider is the openess to move to finet. They paid for a brokerage unit and I know guys between 800-1.3Mill in production that were told no. I was low level presidents and also told no. These are the facts of the case and they are undisputed.

New name for brokerage should be announced by Thanksgiving.
Retention between Thanksgiving and Christmas, Merger has only been out there 3 weeks or so.
Wells generally leaves stuff under local control. They own 80 something companies and generally let them run there business.
WacSec FA’s happy with new comp plan and fee reductions. Several joked “what is the catch”.

[quote=Hydeho] New name for brokerage should be announced by Thanksgiving.Retention between Thanksgiving and Christmas, Merger has only been out there 3 weeks or so.Wells generally leaves stuff under local control. They own 80 something companies and generally let them run there business.WacSec FA’s happy with new comp plan and fee reductions. Several joked “what is the catch”.

[/quote]





My personal opinion is that the retention package is likely to be similar to what they offered AGE brokers… may be slightly less but it would be very difficult to sell how WS paid AGE brokers doing less per fa more…

Unfortuantely for Danny, fortunately for us, they (Sr. Mgt) were the ones that mentioned it BEFORE the WFC merger…as a result, Danny’s reduced credibility is on the line. I heard it was “weeks away”… I think something around Thanskgiving or right after.  Danny is apparently, or was, in SF so will have to see what ‘marching orders’ he was given.  I am sure he will not be dictating terms.

FA’s will NOT be content until Christmas, but lets be honest, if you are considering the option of leaving, you have already spoken with other firms. Here is a question, assuming they give us the parameters of a deal by Thanksgiving, and there is cash upfront, when do you think they will pay it??

 

WS not the problem and if you think otherwise then frankly you have zero clue. The BANK caused the problems the firm has NOT the brokerage.   Move if you want but stop bull shyating yourself

“meanwhile, I stay on hold with HR b/c I know my call is important”.  Then when someone FIANLLY gets to you, the are: 1. Ignorant 2. Unsympathic 3. Arrogant 4. just plain old unpleasant 5. Totally unhelpful…Welcome to the Bank! Oh wait, I forgot to mention that after 20 mins on hold I got my, “answer”…when I called back to confirm b/c something just didn’t seem right, I got, SURPRISE, a different answer…when transfered to a “supervisor” (with serious attitude) I was told a 3rd answer…wow, what great service.

[quote=BukiRob2] 

WS not the problem and if you think otherwise then frankly you have zero clue. The BANK caused the problems the firm has NOT the brokerage.   Move if you want but stop bull shyating yourself

[quote=shredder]Unfortuantely for Danny, fortunately for us, they (Sr. Mgt) were the ones that mentioned it BEFORE the WFC merger…as a result, Danny’s reduced credibility is on the line. I heard it was “weeks away”… I think something around Thanskgiving or right after.  Danny is apparently, or was, in SF so will have to see what ‘marching orders’ he was given.  I am sure he will not be dictating terms.[/quote]

Danny has had one meeting with Stumph(sp). He is in SF now meeting with them.
He has always tried to keep the bank at arms length. It looks like, due to the way they cede local control, that he might be able to keep Wells at double arms length.

He was asked by a manager why Wells was not at Branch Manager meeting. Answer “I didn’t invite them” “Never invited WB to a manager meeting”

“and the payout is right up there, probably the best on the street.  If it is not enough for you, you can go Finet - you can go Profit Formula - whatever you want.  No pressure!  What other major firm even comes close to offering that”

Alas … sigh … so true. Nothing against the WB folks but the support from legacy age VS legacy WS is HUGE HUGE HUGE. Now our research, syndicate, trust company and options strateg dept.  have been gutted. What the F were they thinking.

Alas … sigh … so true. Nothing against the WB folks but the support from legacy age VS legacy WS is HUGE HUGE HUGE. Now our research, syndicate, trust company and options strateg dept.  have been gutted. What the F were they thinking.

Did anyone catch the full page ad on the last page of USA Today? It was a Ws ad but had the AGE logo as well and mentioned AGE in the ad. Seemed sort of odd, like they were bringing it back from the dead for stability purposes. Two out of three (AGE and WFC) aint bad, right?

Gordon:

Regarding the differences between AGE and WS, try getting a call returned or talking to anyone who is from WS.   At least when we were with AGE, the folks in St. Louis knew who paid their salary and were more than willing to talk with us.  It didn’t matter if it was someone in HR, Thayer, Goldman, O’Grady or anyone else.  We were always able to talk with who we needed to.  I sent an e-mail to the head of the Investment Strategy Committee three weeks ago and never got as much as an acknowledgement.  Thank god I was able to get an answer elsewhere.  Let’s not even mention the differences between Infomax and AGE Net.  I know that there will eventually be some good things but I’m tired of waiting until February to find out.  All I’ve seen so far is a bunch of negatives and very few positives, just a lot of promises and an endless stream of “it’s coming and its going to be great” (aka bullsh*t).

[quote=BukiRob2] [quote=Go_Long] BukiRob2:

[quote=Gordon Gekko]Did anyone catch the full page ad on the last page of USA Today? It was a Ws ad but had the AGE logo as well and mentioned AGE in the ad. Seemed sort of odd, like they were bringing it back from the dead for stability purposes. Two out of three (AGE and WFC) aint bad, right?[/quote]
I was thinking the same thing, if only they had kept it to begin with…that would have helped during this fiasco a little bit…

[quote=nestegg] [quote=BukiRob2] [quote=Go_Long] BukiRob2:

Oh yeah and now they are dinging clients 5.00 on miutual fund buys…
Sure Mr. And Mrs. Smith…you just paid a 5% load for your A share…but we are also charging you a 5.00 service fee since the 1000 bucks we just made off you isnt enough!

Scale and scope!

[quote=GoingIndy???] Sell High, you may be right on a few things, but one point you should reconsider is the openess to move to finet.  They paid for a brokerage unit and I know guys between 800-1.3Mill in production that were told no.  I was low level presidents and also told no.  These are the facts of the case and they are undisputed.   [/quote]

I think you must be talking about Profit Formula. I personally know of at least 4 brokers in my city that have gone to Finet and not one of them was doing more than 600K

Ray Jay, Stifel, Oppenehimer, Janney the old AGE all had better payout plans -

Sell High,

[quote=Sell High]Let me offer a quick reality check… [/quote]
OK.
[quote=Sell High]… it looks to me like we are done with Wells Fargo.  No more stress.  [/quote]
Who needs a reality check?  Done?!  No more stress?!  What cave have you been living in?

[quote=BukiRob2] WS not the problem and if you think otherwise then frankly you have zero clue. The BANK caused the problems the firm has NOT the brokerage.   Move if you want but stop bull shyating yourself

[quote=BukiRob2] [quote=GoingIndy???] Sell High, you may be right on a few things, but one point you should reconsider is the openess to move to finet. They paid for a brokerage unit and I know guys between 800-1.3Mill in production that were told no. I was low level presidents and also told no. These are the facts of the case and they are undisputed. [/quote] I think you must be talking about Profit Formula. I personally know of at least 4 brokers in my city that have gone to Finet and not one of them was doing more than 600K

The fact that you blame Wachovia securities for what the bank did tells me all I need to know about your lack of understanding of the issue. Anyone pissing and moaning about bank sweep isn’t an FA worth worrying about. 

Re: What was the last Ray Jay ad you remember seeing during the Superbowl? How about any Ray Jay ad? 

I live in New York and can’t remember the last time I saw an ad for Raymond James…

Okay - so I guess the subtle approach doesn’t work here.  When was the last time national advertising brought a client to your doorstep. Its all about the relationships. When I was at AGE I was much happier receiving those $$ in my 401(k) rather than sending them to some ad agency so we could feel good about ourselves.

[quote=BukiRob2] [quote=GoingIndy???] [quote=BukiRob2] [quote=GoingIndy???] Sell High, you may be right on a few things, but one point you should reconsider is the openess to move to finet.  They paid for a brokerage unit and I know guys between 800-1.3Mill in production that were told no.  I was low level presidents and also told no.  These are the facts of the case and they are undisputed.   [/quote] I think you must be talking about Profit Formula. I personally know of at least 4 brokers in my city that have gone to Finet and not one of them was doing more than 600K[/quote]

Okay - so I guess the subtle approach doesn’t work here.  When was the last time national advertising brought a client to your doorstep. Its all about the relationships. When I was at AGE I was much happier receiving those $$ in my 401(k) rather than sending them to some ad agency so we could feel good about ourselves.

Yeah the egg thing did suck bad. I think the entire thing was smoke from Bagby while he was looking for a buyer and golden parachute.

I’ll never forget the letter he send dispelling any rumors of a buyout … not on my watch said Bob.

He was holding his hands over his eyes when he said that and he was crossing his fingers. The nest egg logo is better than Wachovia’s - the hindenburg!

When did they switch from the Titanic?

Iceberg = Golden West

Sent you a PM - (then received yours - hahaha) but your mailbox is full.

I will delete, please resend!

I am a legacy AGE and I must say that I take great pride in this. I will never forget the day our great leader Mr. B. did away with the so called “poison pill” not to mention converting to BETA to become standardized with the other firms… The writing was so clearly written on the wall. How many more attempts will we have to “explain” to our clients why we are now taken over by another. Change is difficult enough for clients much less to deal with all this during a market disaster. I have about had enough…

Do any of the AGE folks remember when you were a name not just an “A” number?

I do and some firms are still like that. It’s just a matter if we Legacy AGE reps go “Network” and  say"“I’m as mad as hell, and I’m not going to take this anymore!” . I like the analogy of the boiled frog that was used on the board - throw a frog in boiling water and he jumps out but turn the heat up slowly and he is cooked. The 2pm conference call with Danny was WS turning the heat up ever so slightly.

[quote=Gaddock]Yeah the egg thing did suck bad. I think the entire thing was smoke from Bagby while he was looking for a buyer and golden parachute.[/quote]

So would you say it sucked eggs?

  Oh…I slay myself…

Can we say “fee based business???” Just reading over the new comp schedule… better start my transition. I feel very badly for our family at the home office… I always know when i am speaking with a WB associate…(sorry WB step-children)… the level of service and desire to assist is all but forgotten. Sink or swim is the forever motto in our biz.

I did the math and you have to average 46k per month in production (assuming no haircuts) to average a 45% payout. That means you have to place 55 million in fee based accounts (assuming a 1% trail, unless you rape your client with a higher fee). It’s only in the low 30 millions if you want a 40% payout. Oh, did I mention client accounts are off 30% YTD so you’ll need to fill the gap in the next couple months with new money which I am sure clients would love to throw in the market now versus being “safe”.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ami_XEftEtKw&refer=home

There’s always FINET.   90% sounds pretty good if you want to break away…

There is always 100% payout (and even 20% performance allocation if you so desire) if you set up shop and go RIA. 

My experience with Schwab Institutional has been great so far.

My A number is A1.

Finet is still under Wb’s umbrella, regardless of what the kool-aid drinkers say.

I spoke with a person at an independent firm, one of the bigger independent firms… He confided that if you cast aside all the BS his payout after expenses such as rent, computer, staff, etc… it was about 55% - 63% gross before taxes.  It never went over 64% or so he said and he’d been in it for about 22 years.  I don’t think that included the additional 6% in social security you have to pay out in taxes.  Am I accurate with those numbers?  Next the new payout plan eliminates ticket charges on non-discounted trades - so, as I said, 40K seems to be paying 43.5% - isn’t that somewhere in the area of AGE?  Finally, in the past I moved from a real big firm to a smaller one.  The smaller was eventually taken over and became a real big firm once again.  I prospect more than many and the difference in response from a big well known firm to a smaller but still recognizable firm was nauseating.  When we were acquired and became big again, I said Thank God for that.  My business then increased substantially.  Maybe it was all in my perception but numbers are numbers.  My point is, if your business is based on new money, even a 10% perceived difference in status of the firm you work for can add up to $40,000 a year in revenue.  If the 40K figure is too high for you, don’t estimate 1 year.  Assume an average life of client of 7 years and calculate the dollar difference name recognition makes.  Just 1 extra million dollar account per year can add up.  Coke spends hundreds of millions a year on brand and name recognition, if it doesn’t matter why are they wasting all that money?  I think a big name and big advertising (if done correctly) is a big deal but you might disagree.  If independent to wirehouse makes no diffence at all, answer this:  Why is the average independent broker production is around $140,000 average wirehouse producer at $500,000 or more.  My point is that if the spread on payout nets to about 11% (that’s 17% less 6% extra Social Security tax), why not have the big name?  Thanks to independents and the apparent ease of going that direction, I feel payouts at the big firms will now have to be close enough to be just below the net payout from going independent.  That’s a good thing.  I feel as though WS recognized this trend and opened up choices of independent, profit formula, or the standard grid to brokers.  Here’s what I see down the road:  Million dollar producers will eventually receive over 55% on average at wirehouses.  I could be wrong but that’s the way it seems to be going.  I also feel that WS and Wells will start a big advertising campaign after the December merger date.  The new company should be very well capitalized and thats a great thing.  So, if the payout spread is minimized, the wirehouse approach seems to me to be better for business at this point. So things are good and we just recvd a big raise with the elimination of that horrible ticket charge (if you don’t discount equity trades) thats a significant amount of money in payout for many. But no one on the board has said anything good.  I think its great however everyone on this forum is talking about boiling frogs.  No one has said anything positive.  Again, it seems to me that even if these people were getting 120% payout they’d find something to gripe about. 

Sell High,

Friendly word of advice.  If you really want people to read and respond to your posts, you should consider employing that old convention called paragraphs, or at least randomly insert breaks every now and then. 

As it is, to paraphrase Winston Churchill, your post, by it’s very length and presentation, defends itself against the risk of being read. 

[quote=Sell High]I spoke with a person at an independent firm, one of the bigger independent firms… He confided that if you cast aside all the BS his payout after expenses such as rent, computer, staff, etc… it was about 55% - 63% gross before taxes.  It never went over 64% or so he said and he’d been in it for about 22 years.  I don’t think that included the additional 6% in social security you have to pay out in taxes.  Am I accurate with those numbers?  Next the new payout plan eliminates ticket charges on non-discounted trades - so, as I said, 40K seems to be paying 43.5% - isn’t that somewhere in the area of AGE?  Finally, in the past I moved from a real big firm to a smaller one.  The smaller was eventually taken over and became a real big firm once again.  I prospect more than many and the difference in response from a big well known firm to a smaller but still recognizable firm was nauseating.  When we were acquired and became big again, I said Thank God for that.  My business then increased substantially.  Maybe it was all in my perception but numbers are numbers.  My point is, if your business is based on new money, even a 10% perceived difference in status of the firm you work for can add up to $40,000 a year in revenue.  If the 40K figure is too high for you, don’t estimate 1 year.  Assume an average life of client of 7 years and calculate the dollar difference name recognition makes.  Just 1 extra million dollar account per year can add up.  Coke spends hundreds of millions a year on brand and name recognition, if it doesn’t matter why are they wasting all that money?  I think a big name and big advertising (if done correctly) is a big deal but you might disagree.  If independent to wirehouse makes no diffence at all, answer this:  Why is the average independent broker production is around $140,000 average wirehouse producer at $500,000 or more.  My point is that if the spread on payout nets to about 11% (that’s 17% less 6% extra Social Security tax), why not have the big name?  Thanks to independents and the apparent ease of going that direction, I feel payouts at the big firms will now have to be close enough to be just below the net payout from going independent.  That’s a good thing.  I feel as though WS recognized this trend and opened up choices of independent, profit formula, or the standard grid to brokers.  Here’s what I see down the road:  Million dollar producers will eventually receive over 55% on average at wirehouses.  I could be wrong but that’s the way it seems to be going.  I also feel that WS and Wells will start a big advertising campaign after the December merger date.  The new company should be very well capitalized and thats a great thing.  So, if the payout spread is minimized, the wirehouse approach seems to me to be better for business at this point. So things are good and we just recvd a big raise with the elimination of that horrible ticket charge (if you don’t discount equity trades) thats a significant amount of money in payout for many. But no one on the board has said anything good.  I think its great however everyone on this forum is talking about boiling frogs.  No one has said anything positive.  Again, it seems to me that even if these people were getting 120% payout they’d find something to gripe about. 
[/quote]

I think the new payout is better for legacy WS brokers, ticket charges and payout went up for you guys, you are already used to teh rediculous minumum commission and zero payouts so that is now change. What you are missing is the fact that you cant simply add 24% on teh first 10k and 50% over taht and come up with your payout, if 20% of your biz ends p with ticket charges and or zero payout those figures drop FAST and are no where close to 40%

Your post makes some sense and I'm sure you'll see a some of responses on this forum.  However, I agree with Morphius, it's very hard to read.  Almost like an old bank customer that just rambles endlessly.

I think that billion dollar team that left ML to go to Ray Jay will improve their numbers.

[quote=Gordon Gekko]I think that billion dollar team that left ML to go to Ray Jay will improve their numbers.

Sell High,

Friendly word of advice.  If you really want people to read and respond to your posts, you should consider employing that old convention called paragraphs, or at least randomly insert breaks every now and then. 

As it is, to paraphrase Winston Churchill, your post, by it’s very length and presentation, defends itself against the risk of being read. 

I think you listed your three choices in terms of respectability: RJF, SF, Finet. I am even wrestling with the timeframe of making a move. Do you:

There is always 100% payout (and even 20% performance allocation if you so desire) if you set up shop and go RIA. 

My experience with Schwab Institutional has been great so far.

My A number is A1.

I’m waiting to see what the package is for FINET owners.  Maybe nothing at all, but we’ll see.  However, it is REALLY difficult to weigh out the options while things are still unknown.

Good point, Vet20. At this point we are weighing 50% of the options (the “leaving” options) with the other 50% unknown. The rumor mill seems to indicate we’ll know something anywhere from today through year-end. Have any high profile AGE guys left the firm lately?

The hardest part is to wait.  If we're going to have to re-paper our clients due to WFC, then it might as well be done upon leaving.  I would hope that we'd know what the package might look like before the re-papering...

Anyone want to buy an established practice?  Maybe that's the answer.

[quote=Gordon Gekko]Good point, Vet20. At this point we are weighing 50% of the options (the “leaving” options) with the other 50% unknown. The rumor mill seems to indicate we’ll know something anywhere from today through year-end. Have any high profile AGE guys left the firm lately? [/quote]

A huge team in my region left or is about to leave for Ray Jay top 10% prodcer at AGE

If the big guy from Rochester NY ever leaves, it will get real interesting.

I apologize for being wordy – I just rattled it off… The point is what is the REAL net after expenses percent payout for an average independent and how does it compare to 43.5% or more at WS?

[quote=Gordon Gekko]If the big guy from Rochester NY ever leaves, it will get real interesting. [/quote]
Mark Dick?

You got it. That guy is still the gold standard on the Legacy AGE side.  By the way, would it be tacky to have my own business cards printed with “Legacy AG Edwards” on it? I am sure St. Louis, San Francisco, whoever would love it!

[quote=Sell High]I apologize for being wordy – I just rattled it off… The point is what is the REAL net after expenses percent payout for an average independent and how does it compare to 43.5% or more at WS?
[/quote]
It wasn’t the wordiness that made it painful to read it was running everything together with no paragraphs.  The return key is your friend.  Like this.

Amazing what a little bit of white space will do for you!  But I digress.

If you do a search you’ll find a couple recent threads about this same topic about nets.  Short answer is it varies tremendously mainly based on your revenue level and  - critically - how much you choose to spend.  This is, after all, a business, and your results depend on the decisions you make.

If you want a large staff and a huge Class A office outfitted with top of the line furniture, your net will be much lower.  However,  the guy you mention sounds to me like he would certainly be on the lower end of the net spectrum.  Either he spends more than most, or his gross isn’t sufficient to cover enough of his fixed costs, i.e. if his rent is $30,000 per year, that represents only 3% if his gross is $1 MM, but 10% if he grosses only $300K. 

Percentages alone can be deceiving, and averages don’t get you very far in this, just as using average production numbers where you are now don’t mean much for you individually.  You need to run proformas for your projected gross and your projected expenses.

Fortunately you’re used to doing financial projections and plans … right?

Morphius, you must have taken extra writing courses in college as you clearly write well. That might sound smart-assy but I am serious.

Thanks, Gordo - not so much for the unnecessary compliment but for the laugh I got when I saw your “{Return Key}.”  That was great! 

Class A office space is just a category of the fanciest/most expensive office space.  Actually it doesn’t necessarily have to be fancy - it more refers to the amenities in a building.  Most urban high rises built in recent years would generally be Class A.  Not surprisingly, Class B space is generally in older buildings and rents for less, and so on.

Here’s another down and dirty exercise that some might find simpler: calculate the dollar amount that your B/D currently takes from you, using rough averages such as your 60% based on your gross.  Calculate a specific dollar amount.  Write it down.  That’s your bogey.

Now that you know what you are paying them to provide you with everything they provide you, you can estimate how much you would choose or need to spend to replace those things you want to replace.  Pay particular attention to staff costs and rent costs, as well as your new B/D overrride (if any) as those represent the lions share of your future expenses.  Anything left over potentially is yours to keep for taking the effort to do the rest.

If the additional amount available to go into your pocket doesn’t seem like it’s enough to compensate you for the hassle and whatever you feel you lose, don’t move.  If it does, do.

Didn’t some of the rochester guys go to RBC?

Didn’t some of the rochester guys go to RBC?

I would think the few regionals left (RBC, Stifel, Hilliard, Ray Jay) will get the bulk of the departing AGE guys, not including the indy converts. All of them will say they are just like AGE used to be, which from what I recall is a debt-free b/d with high marks from its client base and brokerage force. If someone without the name James takes over at RJF, watch out (reference Tad Edwards).

Tom James has two sons both in the business.  On top of that the people right under Tom are first class not like Bagby.

At least 3 $million+ producers left northeast in last 2 weeks

[quote=Vet20]

The hardest part is to wait. 

[quote=YHWY] [quote=Vet20]

The hardest part is to wait. 

I’m happy as a clam, but thanks for concern, shreddder. I made a great decision that, in hind sight, was made to look even better, almost prophetic. My friends (and the rest of you) that are still at WB post AGE are working for an insolvent parent company and are being slowly screwed to the wall and are just taking it. I feel badly for them (and some of you) now that I see what the business looks from this side and am intentionally being provocative to try to help those who might benefit greatly from a move to quit taking shit and just do it. This WB situation is BAD for legacy AGE folks. That is a fact.

[quote=nestegg]

[quote=Gordon Gekko]If the big guy from Rochester NY ever leaves, it will get real interesting. [/quote]
Mark Dick?
[/quote]

Mark is the real deal, fo sho.

I spoke with a person at an independent firm, one of the bigger independent firms… He confided that if you cast aside all the BS his payout after expenses such as rent, computer, staff, etc… it was about 55% - 63% gross before taxes.  It never went over 64% or so he said and he’d been in it for about 22 years.  I don’t think that included the additional 6% in social security you have to pay out in taxes.  Am I accurate with those numbers?  Next the new payout plan eliminates ticket charges on non-discounted trades - so, as I said, 40K seems to be paying 43.5% - isn’t that somewhere in the area of AGE?  Finally, in the past I moved from a real big firm to a smaller one.  The smaller was eventually taken over and became a real big firm once again.  I prospect more than many and the difference in response from a big well known firm to a smaller but still recognizable firm was nauseating.  When we were acquired and became big again, I said Thank God for that.  My business then increased substantially.  Maybe it was all in my perception but numbers are numbers.  My point is, if your business is based on new money, even a 10% perceived difference in status of the firm you work for can add up to $40,000 a year in revenue.  If the 40K figure is too high for you, don’t estimate 1 year.  Assume an average life of client of 7 years and calculate the dollar difference name recognition makes.  Just 1 extra million dollar account per year can add up.  Coke spends hundreds of millions a year on brand and name recognition, if it doesn’t matter why are they wasting all that money?  I think a big name and big advertising (if done correctly) is a big deal but you might disagree.  If independent to wirehouse makes no diffence at all, answer this:  Why is the average independent broker production is around $140,000 average wirehouse producer at $500,000 or more.  My point is that if the spread on payout nets to about 11% (that’s 17% less 6% extra Social Security tax), why not have the big name?  Thanks to independents and the apparent ease of going that direction, I feel payouts at the big firms will now have to be close enough to be just below the net payout from going independent.  That’s a good thing.  I feel as though WS recognized this trend and opened up choices of independent, profit formula, or the standard grid to brokers.  Here’s what I see down the road:  Million dollar producers will eventually receive over 55% on average at wirehouses.  I could be wrong but that’s the way it seems to be going.  I also feel that WS and Wells will start a big advertising campaign after the December merger date.  The new company should be very well capitalized and thats a great thing.  So, if the payout spread is minimized, the wirehouse approach seems to me to be better for business at this point. So things are good and we just recvd a big raise with the elimination of that horrible ticket charge (if you don’t discount equity trades) thats a significant amount of money in payout for many. But no one on the board has said anything good.  I think its great however everyone on this forum is talking about boiling frogs.  No one has said anything positive.  Again, it seems to me that even if these people were getting 120% payout they’d find something to gripe about. 

[quote=ryedog123] What we gain in monthly cash pay, we lose with the elimination of our annual cash bonus and the addition of ticket charges (for disc. trades). 

What are the managed money incentives? I don’t do any and don’t plan on changing to fit into Ws’s model but I am curious. I know I can look this up at the office tomorrow but hook a brother up!

What are the managed money incentives? I don’t do any and don’t plan on changing to fit into Ws’s model but I am curious. I know I can look this up at the office tomorrow but hook a brother up!

Thanks. For me, it’s not enough to change how I do things. For guys that were already managed money disciples, it’s gravy.

[quote=nestegg]

[quote=Gordon Gekko]Did anyone catch the full page ad on the last page of USA Today? It was a Ws ad but had the AGE logo as well and mentioned AGE in the ad. Seemed sort of odd, like they were bringing it back from the dead for stability purposes. Two out of three (AGE and WFC) aint bad, right?[/quote]I was thinking the same thing, if only they had kept it to begin with…that would have helped during this fiasco a little bit…[/quote]



Oh please… No major firm has a pay plan as good for lower end producers (under 750K) than WS.

[quote=WSxAG] Re: What was the last Ray Jay ad you remember seeing during the Superbowl? How about any Ray Jay ad?

Finet is still under Wb’s umbrella, regardless of what the kool-aid drinkers say.

[quote=Jeroxide] I work in a large Wachovia office and there has been considerable talk over a proposed retention package in regards to the Wells Fargo acquisition. One interesting point to keep in mind is that the Legacy AGE employees received a decent upfront (50% of trailing 12 for $500k level) whereas the Wachovia Securities brokers did receive a check to stay in their seats, but at a smaller amount.

Hello, Newbie.

[quote=BukiRob2] [quote=WSxAG] Re: What was the last Ray Jay ad you remember seeing during the Superbowl? How about any Ray Jay ad? 

what if you don’t want to put all your clients in fee-based?  It works for many, maybe even most, but not all. 

WOW…I produce 750 and never considered myself low end…   Thanks   

WOW…I produce 750 and never considered myself low end…   Thanks   

If anyone considers Ludeman a good CEO, they must be adding some serious drugs to that cool aid.  The guy has no credibility and for good reason, he is an idiot.

I don’t think he is an idiot, he just believes in a business model that is different from the AGE model. 

I appreciate this as one must know this is the worst market to be transactional.

Legacy AGE, remember those days when management said if we were ever to be taken over we would walk across the street and resume business as Albert G. would have expected? RE really cheap now…    

NCGNTO, I think 3/4 of Legacy AGE guys would love to be a low end producer like you. How do you make ends meet on $300k+ a year? 

Lizard my friend…I do agree. By the way, what color are you today???

[quote=NCGNTO]Legacy AGE, remember those days when management said if we were ever to be taken over we would walk across the street and resume business as Albert G. would have expected? RE really cheap now…     [/quote]
Lots of us have long since done that.

What are you waiting for? 

Since you did mention the election… may I dare say… MAVERICK!

I don’t believe the Stiefl is any answer or resolution or comparison to AGE if this is what you might be leading to…

I've written off Stifel as they have not been responsive and they don't even have an office in our town. Morphius was probably referring to going indy, not Stifel.

[quote=NCGNTO]I don’t believe the Stiefl is any answer or resolution or comparison to AGE if this is what you might be leading to…[/quote]
What is with people recently?  I quote a direct statement.  Your statement.  That statement has no reference to Steifel.  None.  I respond to that exact statement.  I make no mention of Steifel.  None.

So what does your response above regarding Steifel have to do with anything? 

For the record, when I quoted that statement, and responded to that statement, I was ALSO not agreeing with any of the other thousands of posts on this forum that I did not quote or refer to.   Just in case that wasn’t clear.

Maybe this has already been answered, has WFC signed the protocol?

I’ve written off Stifel as they have not been responsive and they don’t even have an office in our town. Morphius was probably referring to going indy, not Stifel.

[quote=Morphius] [quote=NCGNTO]I don’t believe the Stiefl is any answer or resolution or comparison to AGE if this is what you might be leading to…[/quote]What is with people recently? I quote a direct statement. Your statement. That statement has no reference to Steifel. None. I respond to that exact statement. I make no mention of Steifel. None.So what does your response above regarding Steifel have to do with anything? For the record, when I quoted that statement, and responded to that statement, I was ALSO not agreeing with any of the other thousands of posts on this forum that I did not quote or refer to. Just in case that wasn’t clear.[/quote] This is an open discussion platform is it not? My statement is just merely a reflection of my thought process. Geesh, lighten up.

Morphius goes all “Matrix” when you allude to the idea that he works for a wirehouse.

[quote=Gordon Gekko] Morphius goes all “Matrix” when you allude to the idea that he works for a wirehouse.

This website is more addictive than Facebook, NCGNTO. Run away while you still are a Newbie!

He’s not kidding, NCNGTO. I submit as evidence the same dozen or so folks who post here multi-daily, religiously. Spend your spare time calling clients and prospecting. 

You cats can’t scare me!!! I’m here to stay…like it nor not!!!

Please keep in mind I am a big producer, female I must add…so grrrr to u…what u got???/Maverick!

Using Nick Murray’s data, if I cold called every time I posted on this site, I would have like 30 new clients with a million dollars each. Of course, unless I shorted the market or bought CDs, all 30 would be burning me in effigy when they got their October statement.

I know several former AGE people that went to Stifel, so far I have not heard anything negative…Have any of you?

Only the fact that most clients have never heard of them, kinda similar to when WB took over AGE. My clients that knew WB were asking "You got bought by a bank in Florida?"

[quote=Gordon Gekko]Morphius goes all “Matrix” when you allude to the idea that he works for a wirehouse.

[quote=NCGNTO] Morph my friend…SN took and opened up shop pretty much next door as the “new” AGE. They recruited my guys and gals as the new AGE. This they are not. They (SN) represent themselves as us. Again they are not. I will say that because of our regional disconnect this is what I have to go by.   Please do post to me with what I am missing in this picture. SN in my region believe that they are the new AGE. I however will never believe this to be fact.[/quote]
NCGNTO, We’re talking at cross purposes.  I have no problem with your contention that SN is not AGE, although they may be closer to the old AGE (my former home) than many others.  But that doesn’t make them AGE. 

Stick around.  We need more female posters of the opposite gender (intentional double negative of sorts there, FWIW).  Poor Babs and Miss Jones need some reinforcements!

[quote=Bud Fox]

Only the fact that most clients have never heard of them, kinda similar to when WB took over AGE. My clients that knew WB were asking "You got bought by a bank in Florida?"

“Oh, we have an AG Edwards at the local strip mall. I met the young man walking door-to-door in our neighborhood”.

Back to the topic, I don’t care so much what the Wells offer looks like. I want to know when they are going to let us know what it is. Is everyone hearing sometime around Thanksgiving?

[quote=Gordon Gekko]Back to the topic, I don’t care so much what the Wells offer looks like. I want to know when they are going to let us know what it is. Is everyone hearing sometime around Thanksgiving?[/quote]

If you don’t care what the offer looks like, why does it matter when they present it?  I’m confused. 

That makes two of us!

[quote=Gordon Gekko] “Oh, we have an AG Edwards at the local strip mall. I met the young man walking door-to-door in our neighborhood”.

[quote=Gordon Gekko] “Oh, we have an AG Edwards at the local strip mall. I met the young man walking door-to-door in our neighborhood”.

I was joking that we would often get confused with Edward D. Jones.

I was joking that we would often get confused with Edward D. Jones.

When do we think we will have any communication with WFC… A conference call perhaps to welcome us with open arms??    

That’s right.  In the field, (outside of St. Louis) we have not heard anything from our new WFC owners.

[quote=Vet20] That’s right. In the field, (outside of St. Louis) we have not heard anything from our new WFC owners.

[quote=Vet20]That’s right.  In the field, (outside of St. Louis) we have not heard anything from our new WFC owners.

[quote=shredder] [quote=Vet20]That’s right. In the field, (outside of St. Louis) we have not heard anything from our new WFC owners.

Great point NCGNTO.

Our team spent some time looking at the new compensation package this morning.  We have been discussing the Profit Formula option pretty heavily.  The details of the new pay package push us even further in that direction.  Did anyone happen to notice that the minimum ticket to get paid is now $95 for equity and $55 for options?  We are looking into what impact this will have on us, but it is not an exciting prospect. Our team is made of a large advisor and two of us mid level guys.  He will see a small pay increase (but not much when you factor in the lost production bonus) and the other Crest Clubber and I will see a cut factoring the bonus.  If we go PF, we all get a nice raise.

Anyone have experience with PF?  What questions do I need to ask?  What am I missing?  Are they still going to keep it after WFC rules the roost?

[quote=Vet20]Great point NCGNTO.

anyword on retention package out there?  we lost 6 brokers in 3 month an seeing empty offices everywhere.   

We keep hearing about all the new FC’s the firm is hiring.  Any idea what WS is paying to attract these people?

[quote=skbroker]

anyword on retention package out there?  we lost 6 brokers in 3 month an seeing empty offices everywhere.   

IMO its pretty simple.   If WFC wants to retain the majority of producers the package will be fairly similar to what AGE was offered when WS aquired them.  If WFC isnt as concerned about attrition the package will not be that progressive.

[quote=Mucker][quote=skbroker]

anyword on retention package out there?  we lost 6 brokers in 3 month an seeing empty offices everywhere.   

Why didn’t they just look at the trailing 12 of the MER brokers?  Go figure.

We keep hearing about all the new FC’s the firm is hiring.  Any idea what WS is paying to attract these people?

[quote=Morphius] [quote=Vet20]Great point NCGNTO.

[quote=CommonSense] Our team spent some time looking at the new compensation package this morning. We have been discussing the Profit Formula option pretty heavily. The details of the new pay package push us even further in that direction. Did anyone happen to notice that the minimum ticket to get paid is now $95 for equity and $55 for options? We are looking into what impact this will have on us, but it is not an exciting prospect. Our team is made of a large advisor and two of us mid level guys. He will see a small pay increase (but not much when you factor in the lost production bonus) and the other Crest Clubber and I will see a cut factoring the bonus. If we go PF, we all get a nice raise.Anyone have experience with PF? What questions do I need to ask? What am I missing? Are they still going to keep it after WFC rules the roost?[/quote] Don’t quote me here but my understanding with PF is that at least one of the team members needs to gross 1 to 1.5 mil at least and this number may be greater after the forced marriage. No one team member producing over a specific gross may reduce their gross to bump another team member to clear the ceiling. They have us by the ******'s. - so to speak. You find out otherwise plz advise… We may look really good as bank tellers or door greeters …

I was going to start a whole new thread for this but here is the question:

[quote=Gordon Gekko]I was going to start a whole new thread for this but here is the question:

Also have you seen the new fees and charges brochure…

[quote=Gordon Gekko]I was going to start a whole new thread for this but here is the question:

[quote=NCGNTO] [quote=CommonSense] Our team spent some time looking at the new compensation package this morning.  We have been discussing the Profit Formula option pretty heavily.  The details of the new pay package push us even further in that direction.  Did anyone happen to notice that the minimum ticket to get paid is now $95 for equity and $55 for options?  We are looking into what impact this will have on us, but it is not an exciting prospect. Our team is made of a large advisor and two of us mid level guys.  He will see a small pay increase (but not much when you factor in the lost production bonus) and the other Crest Clubber and I will see a cut factoring the bonus.  If we go PF, we all get a nice raise.Anyone have experience with PF?  What questions do I need to ask?  What am I missing?  Are they still going to keep it after WFC rules the roost?[/quote] Don’t quote me here but my understanding with PF is that at least one of the team members needs to gross 1 to 1.5 mil at least and this number may be greater after the forced marriage. No one team member producing over a specific gross may reduce their gross to bump another team member to clear the ceiling.  They have us by the ******'s.   - so to speak.  You find out otherwise plz advise… We may look really good as bank tellers or door greeters … [/quote]

Thanks for the info.  My senior partner will qualify, so that won’t be a problem.  We are going to have the numbers ran by the PF team, so I will have more details when we get that info back.  I was just trying to get some insight into what to look for and what questions to ask.  Positive or negative experiences??? Any thoughts out there???

I guess I need to look at every transaction for the next few months and see where I'd stand. If you don't discount stock trades, it's real easy to get it over $95 as the standard rate is absurd in most cases.

[quote=CommonSense]

[quote=Gordon Gekko]I was going to start a whole new thread for this but here is the question:

Is there a way to see your monthly run as it stands now? I know production profiles breaks it down by category but doesn’t show each transaction and the corresponding commission.

[quote=Gordon Gekko]Is there a way to see your monthly run as it stands now? I know production profiles breaks it down by category but doesn’t show each transaction and the corresponding commission.[/quote]

Go in FC Inquiry and there is a commission reports tab and you can pull up every trade for each month…it will list gross and net for each trade as well as totals. Easiest way is just to look at your gross and net for the month, do the math and that is your payout. However the reports come in handy when looking back to see how many ticket charges or zero payout trades you would have done under the new system

thanks!

Thanks for the info.  My senior partner will qualify, so that won’t be a problem.  We are going to have the numbers ran by the PF team, so I will have more details when we get that info back.  I was just trying to get some insight into what to look for and what questions to ask.  Positive or negative experiences??? Any thoughts out there???
[/quote]

Is there a way to see your monthly run as it stands now? I know production profiles breaks it down by category but doesn’t show each transaction and the corresponding commission.

Well, ignorance is bliss!

[quote=Gordon Gekko]I am burned out listening to various firms and I am sitting tight for the time being. How’s that for avoidance behavior?[/quote]
Ribbet ribbet!!  Ribbet ribbet!!

Morphius, I am like the dude from “The Matrix” who sees how the world really is but decides he wants to go back to fantasyland.

[quote=Morphius]

[quote=Gordon Gekko]I am burned out listening to various firms and I am sitting tight for the time being. How’s that for avoidance behavior?[/quote]Ribbet ribbet!! Ribbet ribbet!![/quote]



I think most of us are in a state of “what the heck!” But good news is that there is medication for avoidance behavior!!!     We should take advantage of the “mental health” program at WB I’m sure it is very popular…This is exactly why our windows at our branches do not open!

From what I am hearing dont spend too much time doing the calculations as WFC will have a simpler leaner formula next year.  The bright side is it is very easy to understand, the negative is it has two payout %'s…Lw and Lwer.

VA’s, trails on fund, new fund purchases, managed futures trails -currently 40% or higher

[quote=Gordon Gekko]Well, ignorance is bliss!

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/597/story/302174.html

[quote=Gordon Gekko]http://www.charlotteobserver.com/597/story/302174.html

[quote=Gordon Gekko]Morphius, I am like the dude from “The Matrix” who sees how the world really is but decides he wants to go back to fantasyland. [/quote]
"This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the
blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you
want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you
how deep the rabbit-hole goes."

What will it be Gordo? 

Life is short.  Some opportunities don’t knock twice, much less three times. 

Ribbet, ribbet.

[quote=Gordon Gekko]VA’s, trails on fund, new fund purchases, managed futures trails -currently 40% or higher

That was the line I was thinking of, Morphius!

First yr they ding you on payout in FiNet but that’s minor.

[quote=nestegg]

Go_Long, I agree on most counts, I am growing assets, prod and fees every year, so that is great…I just like gettign paid now not later, and prefer not to nickel and dime my clients, and I expect my firm to not do that to me either. 

[quote=dizzy]First yr they ding you on payout in FiNet but that’s minor.

I’m hearing we should expect an accelerated payout plan, a higher payout for 2 yrs for ex.

[quote=dizzy]I’m hearing we should expect an accelerated payout plan, a higher payout for 2 yrs for ex.

Go_Long, I agree on most counts, I am growing assets, prod and fees every year, so that is great…I just like gettign paid now not later, and prefer not to nickel and dime my clients, and I expect my firm to not do that to me either. 

[quote=nestegg]Go_Long, I agree on most counts, I am growing assets, prod and fees every year, so that is great…I just like gettign paid now not later, and prefer not to nickel and dime my clients, and I expect my firm to not do that to me either. 

Am I the only FA here who has this opinion?

1) PF will be one of the first casualties of the WF/WS deal- my opinion!
2) PF is not profitable…it’s killing small branch P&Ls where it’s in place and most small market managers don’t want anyone on it. They regularly turn opportunities to bring PF teams aboard!
3) Big branch managers who have teams in PF want them gone because they are neutral at best on the branch P&L and only a few in the system are worth having from a BM comp standpoint.
4) Wells Fargo is KNOWN for it’s very cautious and careful view of every facet of a business it operates. How in the world will the super low margin and unprofitable PF get past their microscope?  They are going to slash and burn. PF is an easy target and not the first or last.

I love Profit Formula and I think it’s a great platform for a larger producer or team. The model is solid for the advisors. Will is be part of a Wells Fargo future?  I think not a chance.

[quote=iceco1d]

Too bad firms have to play games like this.  Why not just a  simple - 30% here’s your payout.  No admin fees.  No tickets.  No minimum to get paid out.  So stupid.

[quote=Gordon Gekko]http://www.charlotteobserver.com/597/story/302174.html

[quote=BukiRob] The issue isnt stay because there will be no change.  Change IS coming… the only thing WS brokers have to decide is if the retention is meaningful enough to endure the change.[/quote]
Generally good points you make, BukiRob, but I would nit pick over the above comment.

I agree that change is coming regardless, but disagree that the only thing brokers have to decide is if the retention is enough to endure the change.

It’s not just the hassle of the transition - it is what exactly are you changing TO?  I know lots of American just demonstrated that they are more concerned with the idea of change per se, but this still begs the question: change to what?  If the retention is enough to endure the transition headaches, that is only a small part of the equation.

What will you be changing to over the long term, especially once the transition period is over (for this merger)?

FAs face change all right.  But they ought to recognize that they need to decide much more than you mention - they need to decide where they choose to work, which in turn will determine what type of change they need to “endure” or not.

[quote=Gordon Gekko]

[quote=BukiRob][quote=Gordon Gekko]

I got the impression that was close to the proposal, and they expect something lower…his tone was a little differnt than in the past on the conference calls.

The vibe I am getting is that the package will probably not have any upfront money it at all.  It will probably be all deferred.  I have no factual reason to believe that, but that seems to be the resounding theme.

[quote=BukiRob][quote=Gordon Gekko]http://www.charlotteobserver.com/597/story/302174.html

WFC priced their secondary at $27 per share. That tells me that they desperately needed cash to keep their AAA rating. They are going to shell out billions to keep AGE/WS brokers in their seats? Maybe.  I might be pleasantly surprised but I am not holding my breath. 

Being WFC tried to turn down the $25b from the government, I doubt they are in desperate need of cash.  Although in this environment, who the hell knows.

RE: New payout formula - I calculated breakeven pay out at a production level of $260,000 assuming a 38% payout under the old formula. This does not included any increases due to adding fee based accounts or asset growth.

[quote=Herman Munster]

My take is that they want households in excess of $250k in fee based accounts with the envision program acting as the primary financial plan.

I'm not sure I agree.

Trust me Stumpf and more importantly Kovacevich do not think WS/AGE/PRU/First Union is the crown jewel of Wachovia. If they could they would unload it faster than you can blink an eye. Just like UBS is trying to unload Payne Webber and Citi is trying to unload Smith Barney. There are just no buyers out there right now for this business model.



A few years back my team, which does about 2.4 mil, was complaining about the support we were getting from our bank partners to our manager. Why else would we be at a bank if not for the support and referrals from our bank partners. His response was very telling as to what the retail bank thinks of us in the investment division. He said " we are just a fly on the elephants ass and we need to make sure that we don’t get swatted." And this was coming from our regional manager within the investment division.



It’s not a bad place to work, you guys just need to realize that the bank really only has the investment division so they can deepen the cross-sell and make it harder for the customer to ever leave the bank. I guess my point is that Wells wishes right now that WS was not part of the deal. They wanted the bank not the brokerage. Don’t be surprised if the offer is much less than what you expect.

If they only wanted the bank, then why not make a superior offer for just the bank.  WFC chose to make an offer for the entire company, and the investment arm is certainly the crown jewel of the bunch.  One of the big differences between BAI and WFC is the cost to purchase.  WFC basically got the brokerage for free.   Stumpf is smart enough to exploit this for profit, otherwise they would not have purchased anything besides the bank.

[quote=stocksandblondes][quote=BukiRob][quote=Gordon Gekko]

Wells is one of best companies in the world.  Unfortunately becoming one of the biggest. 

[quote=conage]

AMEN to that! 

[quote=Go_Long][quote=conage]

That quote sticks in my craw as well (the 26k quote). I don't know about yunz, but with the market off 40% this year, doing 26k per month is not a slam dunk. My Eaton Vance trails which pay monthly are down about 30% - in one month.  That's October to November. It's partly clients bailing and part the market being down almost 20% in a month.

[quote=Gordon Gekko]

That quote sticks in my craw as well (the 26k quote). I don't know about yunz, but with the market off 40% this year, doing 26k per month is not a slam dunk. My Eaton Vance trails which pay monthly are down about 30% - in one month.  That's October to November. It's partly clients bailing and part the market being down almost 20% in a month.

Where else can you go as a business owner and have a fixed profit margin of 35-40% every month? 

[quote=fritz][quote=Gordon Gekko]

That quote sticks in my craw as well (the 26k quote). I don't know about yunz, but with the market off 40% this year, doing 26k per month is not a slam dunk. My Eaton Vance trails which pay monthly are down about 30% - in one month.  That's October to November. It's partly clients bailing and part the market being down almost 20% in a month.

Where else can you go as a business owner and have a fixed profit margin of 35-40% every month? 

It’s everything to stay positive 4 sure.  and morphius who cares abt caps- maybe he’s holding a baby , like i am

[quote=dizzy]It’s everything to stay positive 4 sure.  and morphius who cares abt caps- maybe he’s holding a baby , like i am

 oh!  xfring is tranferring, my bad.

Am very surpised Ludeman hasn’t said much about the retention package.  At a time when WS FA headcount is dimishing, I would think he would at the very least say something like “it is our goal to provide you with a retention package and we are gonna try to have the details by Thanksgiving”.  I know he insinuated some things at a recent managers meeting in St. Louis, but what would be so wrong with saying that to all the FAs. 

The local business journal was quoting various recruiters as saying it will be lower than most expect, similar to Merrill’s deal. The longer they wait to say anything, the longer it holds most fc’s in their seat.

If it’s similar to Merril Deal that leaves about half of legacy and WB FA with very low package.  I am assuming they’ll take into consideration the average production numbers for combined firm.   

“the average production of both firms (old AGE, and WS)”, now THAT is what I want to know.  What is the ave production??

The Age brokers were paid for their practices a year ago.  WFC is merging with the bank side. The Securities business has a merger of it’s own going on. Because WFC owns 62% of that company instead of WB owning it we get retention? I will be suprised if retention in this situation is significant. The only reason for significant retention is to keep the AGE brokers who have been through a bunch of BS in their seats due to the BS-- Not the rescue.

I AGREE COMPLETELY about the silence of Danny.  This is crazy how long it has been without any communication to the field.  What kind of deal would be presented to FINET owners?? 

Also, the retention package has to be more than what the other firms are offering.  If WFC is not looking at this they're crazy. 

I don’t know … I would rather see it in writting rather than listen to Danny try to sell us the UM UM UM ER UM UM koolaid. I’m so sick of hearing bullshit that silence is golden. I’ve got another firm that will take me on with a very nice offer. I don’t care about a retention package I just want to know the truth of where we are and going so I can get back to gathering assets.

For at least a few more weeks my strategy is when in doubt wait it out.

[quote=Vet20]

Also, the retention package has to be more than what the other firms are offering.  If WFC is not looking at this they're crazy. 

[quote=Vet20]I AGREE COMPLETELY about the silence of Danny.  This is crazy how long it has been without any communication to the field.  What kind of deal would be presented to FINET owners?? 

at this point i would rather they announce no retention so that it would make my decision easier 

I don’t know … I would rather see it in writting rather than listen to Danny try to sell us the UM UM UM ER UM UM koolaid. I’m so sick of hearing bullshit that silence is golden. I’ve got another firm that will take me on with a very nice offer. I don’t care about a retention package I just want to know the truth of where we are and going so I can get back to gathering assets.

you would add all of the legacy and ws production for the year and divide that number by number of FC.   that would be the average production.    

[quote=skbroker]

you would add all of the legacy and ws production for the year and divide that number by number of FC.   that would be the average production.    

The Age brokers were paid for their practices a year ago. WFC is merging with the bank side. The Securities business has a merger of it’s own going on. Because WFC owns 62% of that company instead of WB owning it we get retention? I will be suprised if retention in this situation is significant. The only reason for significant retention is to keep the AGE brokers who have been through a bunch of BS in their seats due to the BS-- Not the rescue.

The Age brokers were paid for their practices a year ago. WFC is merging with the bank side. The Securities business has a merger of it’s own going on. Because WFC owns 62% of that company instead of WB owning it we get retention? I will be suprised if retention in this situation is significant. The only reason for significant retention is to keep the AGE brokers who have been through a bunch of BS in their seats due to the BS-- Not the rescue.

Then expect to see people leave in droves. I keep saying this and no one seems to even acknowledge the fact that the system load will DOUBLE in February. That is when AGE brokers come on the system. The options available right now are at or near all time high pay outs and if WFC wants to stiff brokers merely because they think they shouldn’t be paid then they have no right to scratch their heads when the head count gets cut in half.   

I will not go through that mess again and not get compensated for it. I would prefer it to be at WFC but if they want to play the cheap card, Im gone.

If there’s one thing I took away from my time at WB is this. The pain and misery advisors will put up with is incredible. To this day, I continue to talk to my friends at the firm who go on and on about systems, support, etc, all of this BEFORE WFC closes the deal and starts to tweak it.

It took my some time but I could not bear it further. I don’t get the long suffering “I want to wait and see what happens” boloney so many seem to be stuck too!

Everyone’s grass has crap on it right now - that’s true, but to sit there, accept it and not get paid for it? That’s a whole different thing.

Why would anyone sit around and worry about an additional 10 - 40% retention package when other firms are offering 100%+ Upfront with backend bonuses based on amount of assets transferring over, etc.?

We had the infrastructure to handle 20,000 brokers.  That is why they moved to ST. Louis from Richmond.  What do you think is the problem with the system?  I am not liking some of the areas of transition but did not expect to worry about things keeping up.

[quote=BukiRob2]

Then expect to see people leave in droves. I keep saying this and no one seems to even acknowledge the fact that the system load will DOUBLE in February. That is when AGE brokers come on the system. The options available right now are at or near all time high pay outs and if WFC wants to stiff brokers merely because they think they shouldn’t be paid then they have no right to scratch their heads when the head count gets cut in half.   

I will not go through that mess again and not get compensated for it. I would prefer it to be at WFC but if they want to play the cheap card, Im gone.

I was being sarcastic.  I would call Danny.  He should know.  but less than merrill FA’s

[quote=BlackKnight]Why would anyone sit around and worry about an additional 10 - 40% retention package when other firms are offering 100%+ Upfront with backend bonuses based on amount of assets transferring over, etc.?

[quote=HymanRoth]
Why would anyone sit around and consider a 100% upfront in exchange for 5-9 more years of indentured servitude, and extra taxes on top of it when the loan forgiveness hits every year?




[/quote]While I am no fan of WS, what specific “extra taxes” are you talking about?

We had the infrastructure to handle 20,000 brokers. That is why they moved to ST. Louis from Richmond. What do you think is the problem with the system? I am not liking some of the areas of transition but did not expect to worry about things keeping up.

[quote=fritz][quote=Go_Long]Its looking more and more like WFC getting the WB securities is going to happen one way or another, either by taking all of WB or by giving some of the bank branches to C to get them to go away.

In my opinion, you guys at Wach/AG are floating on pipe dreams. There will be no retention package. Seriously. They just doled one out a year ago. Plus, can you imagine the PR nightmare that ANOTHER retention package will cause?

[quote=Gordon Gekko]I would not want to be the one devising a retention plan for a bunch as diverse as the current WS. However, I am thinking something less that what they paid us AGE fc’s last year. It would have to be, right? However, when you add the last package plus this package, we might be getting paid well to sit tight.

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