Leaving Jones
Has anyone left Jones after can sell date during the first year. Will they go after you for the $75000 if you sign with and indy, but don’t go after any customers that you have ?
Check SEARCH.
Left after second year, and they did send a letter from their law firm in St. Louis reminding me of the contract I signed, but have not heard anything else from them. Meanwhile 4 brokers have gone through my office.
What was your reason for leaving ?
Usually there are many reasons someone leaves a firm. I think the biggest frustration with people at EJ is the BS spewed by Regional Leaders and the fact that new advisors with no clue get handed large offices, do absolutely no prospecting, but get all of the credit for being "fast starters."
Spiffy-
Where are you? The firm is in need of defense. You are being attacked.....again. Ron14- There isn't much you have said that I can dispute after 9 years at that firm. Indy is by far a better option. You have to have moxy, gonads...whatever you want to call it, but in the end there is no comparison. And no bs that you speak of from RL's, GP's, etc.[quote=Ron 14]
Usually there are many reasons someone leaves a firm. I think the biggest frustration with people at EJ is the BS spewed by Regional Leaders and the fact that new advisors with no clue get handed large offices, do absolutely no prospecting, but get all of the credit for being "fast starters."
[/quote] Seriously, how many times have you actually seen that happen? Sure, some guys get to walk into "big" offices. Sometimes they are new people. However, there are dozens of people who start with relatively nothing for every one of those people. I've seen people who walked into those big offices fall flat on their face because they DIDN'T know how to prospect and didn't grow the book. I have started to believe this is a Jones only issue. Simply because of how they have structured the business format. Where else do you have a single FA in an office who can't sell their book to the highest bidder? Indy? No. They sell the book. Wirehouse? No. When a wirehouse FA leaves they either sell the book or the BOM splits it up as he sees fit. Am I right in my thinking? If you get that bent out of shape about something that a RL says, then you have thinner skin than necessary. Those guys are some of the best salespeople in the world. They'll tell you the sky is purple if they think it will further their agenda. I love my RL, but I don't believe everything he tells me. I have a brain and I excercise my free will to use it.In my region, there has been a grand total of ONE large office (defined as more than $15mm in AUM) given to a rookie. Actually, there have been no large offices vacated. I take that back, my former mentor took over about 20mm, but he was a producing transfer from AGE. The one guy was like a 40mm office, and it was taken over by an existing FA (about 3 years in) who opted to move here to take the office. Good guy. The regional leader gave his son like a 40mm GK plan. I actually like that. It’s basically passing your business on to your family.
Other than that, there have been a few 5-10mm officed taken by rookies, but that’s probably worse for your career than starting from scratch.
Paducah,KY need I say more.
[quote=Spaceman Spiff][quote=Ron 14]
Usually there are many reasons someone leaves a firm. I think the biggest frustration with people at EJ is the BS spewed by Regional Leaders and the fact that new advisors with no clue get handed large offices, do absolutely no prospecting, but get all of the credit for being "fast starters."
[/quote] Seriously, how many times have you actually seen that happen? Sure, some guys get to walk into "big" offices. Sometimes they are new people. However, there are dozens of people who start with relatively nothing for every one of those people. I've seen people who walked into those big offices fall flat on their face because they DIDN'T know how to prospect and didn't grow the book. I have started to believe this is a Jones only issue. Simply because of how they have structured the business format. Where else do you have a single FA in an office who can't sell their book to the highest bidder? Indy? No. They sell the book. Wirehouse? No. When a wirehouse FA leaves they either sell the book or the BOM splits it up as he sees fit. Am I right in my thinking? If you get that bent out of shape about something that a RL says, then you have thinner skin than necessary. Those guys are some of the best salespeople in the world. They'll tell you the sky is purple if they think it will further their agenda. I love my RL, but I don't believe everything he tells me. I have a brain and I excercise my free will to use it. [/quote]Spiff and B24 - let me preface this by saying you two guys are usually right on the money and honest about the things that happen at Jones, but my experience with assets being handed out is much much different.
Since I started 2 years ago not 1 person has made it in my region as a new new. I got a goodknight from afar which provided me with 2mil. Everyone else has done a 10mil goodknight or took over an office of 10mil plus. One guy in my region took over 15 mil and has not brought in 1 single prospect from the area in which he took over the assets, NOT ONE. He is just working with existing clients and walk ins. Obviously, he won't last very long with zero prospecting but he is the new "hero" in the region. Our entire region follows the regional leader around like dogs and what he says goes. Its a miserable environment that most guys don't want to be a part of. If you go your own way you are labeled as not being a "team player." I know this because my goodknight FA pulled me aside to tell me this, along with the fact that I should only wear blue or white shirts, nothing else. Every region and every RL is different, but there is nothing wrong with being fed up or bitter regarding this type of BS. It is a reality and although EJ has a great culture overall it is difficult to put up with regional crap when you are out there on your own island. EJ isnt really your own business, its more of a franchise and you dont know that until you are a few years in.[quote=Ron 14] EJ isnt really your own business, its more of a franchise and you dont know that until you are a few years in.[/quote]
Really? It took you a few years to figure that out?
[quote=Ron 14]Spiff and B24 - let me preface this by saying you two guys are usually right on the money and honest about the things that happen at Jones, but my experience with assets being handed out is much much different.
Since I started 2 years ago not 1 person has made it in my region as a new new. I got a goodknight from afar which provided me with 2mil. Everyone else has done a 10mil goodknight or took over an office of 10mil plus. One guy in my region took over 15 mil and has not brought in 1 single prospect from the area in which he took over the assets, NOT ONE. He is just working with existing clients and walk ins. Obviously, he won't last very long with zero prospecting but he is the new "hero" in the region. Our entire region follows the regional leader around like dogs and what he says goes. Its a miserable environment that most guys don't want to be a part of. If you go your own way you are labeled as not being a "team player." I know this because my goodknight FA pulled me aside to tell me this, along with the fact that I should only wear blue or white shirts, nothing else. Every region and every RL is different, but there is nothing wrong with being fed up or bitter regarding this type of BS. It is a reality and although EJ has a great culture overall it is difficult to put up with regional crap when you are out there on your own island. EJ isnt really your own business, its more of a franchise and you dont know that until you are a few years in.[/quote] Geeesh. That is pretty extreme. My region is NOTHING like that. My guess is that your region is much more saturated with offices, and has been around longer. Our most tenured FA has been with the firm like 17 years, and he was the first office in the state. So most FA's are in the 6-10 year range in my region. Very young region. And FYI, I never once felt that I "owned" my business. Unlimited income potential, yeah. I guess because of my background in business, I understood what they meant when they said the opportunity to "run" your own business. I look at it like being the General Manager of a business, not the owner. I always felt we were pretty much the same as any other wirehouse or regional other than our office structure. IMHO, only knuckleheads took the "business owner" thing to the extreme in thinking that they actually owned something. Anyone that thinks someone else is going to shell out all this money upfront for you to own your own business is just naive. If I ever gave the impression that I felt that way, then I mispoke. And to be honest, how other regions are run - I don't really care. I really only care about myself and how my region operates and how it affects me. My clients don't know or care that in your region you have to wear a blue suit or go to productivity meetings all the time. To be honest, if I were in your region, and what you say is really true, I probably would have left years ago (or maybe after my 3 years if I stayed in the business). Although, and not to put down you or anyone else, I am a bit more "thick skinned" when it comes to business than most people, and I don't take much crap from people above me or beside me. Years in a very tough corporate environment de-sensitized me to that stuff. So how they prop up the "new guy that got a 15mm office" sort of whining - doesn't really get to me. I have to build my own business, not worry about what other little piss-ants got handed to them. So unless someone is inhibiting my ability to build my business my way, I could care less.I know a couple of the people that took chunks of that office when David Lane left. But you probably have some feelings on the issue, so before I tell you what I know, I'd like to hear what you think about the split of David's office. I will say that the history of that office is a great story. Paducah used to have one advisor. Tom Bartow. Then David Lane came in and instead of sitting on his butt and managing a $100 mil office, he darn near tripled the AUM while he was there. Today there are 11 offices in that town. And Jones has an almost unheard of 8% market share. Those Jones FAs are just shy of $500 MM in AUM cumulatively in that county. Not too shabby considering that David could have had a really good life just calling his inherited clients and taking the trails as they roll in. Would it have pissed you off more if they just would have picked someone from the home office to come out and take over the whole office?Paducah,KY need I say more.
Ron - you know what I’ve realized over the years is that the only people who complain loudly about what some other guy got at EDJ are the ones who aren’t working as hard as they should to get it for themselves. I’m not saying that you should work hard so that you can get a big office when it comes around. I’m saying that if you’re working hard and making good money you won’t care what happens outside your office.
I'm one of those guys who took over a book. $9 mil. Buddy of mine started new/new, but about a year and a half in, had the opportunity to take over a $30 MM book. Suddenly, he's got just a few more assets than me. Now, I can either be bitter about it, or realize that it has absolutely no impact on my business and not worry about it. What he does or what the region says about him at regional meetings has ZERO impact on how many phone calls I make or how many new people I meet this week.[quote=iceco1d]
He was living with a girlfriend for a year and she finally kicked him out - had had no money for food or heating oil. I bought him $150 worth of groceries he b, and gave him $100 to get a small delivery of oil -ought weed with it. /QUOTE] Is that wrong?I don’t know…I started as a Goodknight with $4.5MM in assets…If I get to 100+ million and large production numbers as well…I don’t think you can hold that against me…on the other side, if someone is given a $50MM non-competative branch and they are being held up as rainmakers…i agree with you.
You guys can label me a cry baby or bitter, that is fine. If you guys don't believe there is anything wrong with bootlickers and people who are full of BS, that is also fine. I have been successful in business before Jones and I will be after Jones. I made it a point long ago that I will not subject myself to situations where I am controlled or situations in which I am getting smoke blown up my rear. I definitely wont start now in the name of the green machine. You guys will have long prosperous careers at EJ and the firm will love you. All tyrants love people below them that ignore various forms of injustice.
Foot,
You're misudnerstanding me. I get tired of hearing FA's (at any firm) whine about others getting assets, teams, etc. This is not really a pro- or anti-Jones thing. I am just talking about the individuals. Did I get assets? Yeah, just under 5mm. It has contributed a grand total of maybe 10% to my gross production. I probably would have peformed better with zero, as I would not have wasted 6 early months focusing on those "clients." Unfortunately, about 4mm was all in stocks in 2 accounts, and has contributed close to zero to my bottom line, and I got like 250 accounts. You do the math. And I didn't get those assets until about 8 months into selling. As far as holding those people up, you're right. They do that. My point was, why the fuch do you care? Grow up, pull up your bootstraps, and keep working. What if those people never got assets? Would you all of a sudden be doing better because everyone else started from zero? Other than the random FA that gets more than 15mm handed to them, after a few years, it doesn't matter whether you started from zero or not - it all depends on you. Foot, I would be saying this whether I worked at Jones, Merrill, or LPL. I just freakin hate whiners. I hated it when I was an athlete, and I hate it in business. I don't even like my two kids whining. Now that that's over - how is the financial advisory platform biased? Seriously. I have just started looking at it, so I am curious on your thoughts.[quote=Ron 14]
You guys can label me a cry baby or bitter, that is fine. If you guys don't believe there is anything wrong with bootlickers and people who are full of BS, that is also fine. I have been successful in business before Jones and I will be after Jones. I made it a point long ago that I will not subject myself to situations where I am controlled or situations in which I am getting smoke blown up my rear. I definitely wont start now in the name of the green machine. You guys will have long prosperous careers at EJ and the firm will love you. All tyrants love people below them that ignore various forms of injustice.
[/quote] Injustice???? Are you freakin serious? Because Johnny got soem assets and you didn't, and now they're giving him plaques and praise, THAT is injust? Jones didn't hire you to hand you something. Would you blame LPL if they didn't hand you assets?Ok…ok…I’m trying to hold it together. A client of mine just came in to my office to let me know the Jones broker stopped by yesterday. He was there talking with his wife about investing…blah blah blah…and at the end of the conversation…he said…“my wife is selling avon now and wanted to know if you have an avon rep”…no shit…Is St Louis teaching multi tasking…NICE…“If your not interested in this Household Finance bond, how about this shade of red for your lipstick”…
From a different place or perspective. Maybe it the wear and tear on my life’s tires. Some of the members have mentioned individuals that got the GK program for whatever reason/s and essentially sat on the assets and did nothing. Others I am sure worked the clients and continued to build upon what was given to them. Fair or unfair that is just a reality.
To the point of holding up these " One Year Wonders " and using as role models. I suspect that everyone with the least amount of knowledge in the group knows what is what!!! In my business career, I have seen many come and go including the " Golden Boys " and girls. Funny thing with all their advantages they could not make it. Unfair you bet but the footsoldiers somehow survived. Does it bother people ....yes ....but in the end I have always been concerned about my survival. Even when the " Wonder Kids " struted around and spouted how smart and capable they were....my response was talk to me in about 10 years when you have paid your dues and survived the GOOD , BAD and UGLY.Amen!
Spears, as far as I can tell we are diametrically opposed on every conceivable topic....but you are funny as shit!
Spears…" That’s called Cross-Selling" Vertical Intergration Business Model.
I am thinking of an office that was close to 225M and was split between the RL GK and a rep in the red from a different region. The GK rep was struggling at the time (I think he may have been red at the time, too) and was contemplating leaving the industry.
And then the office opened up. Not one of the 5 brokers in the town was offered it and most if not all had more tenure. To be fair, he was NOT held up as an example. Life ain't fair, and this situation wasn't isolated. I can think of another situation where a rep who failed, came back after succeeding at a bank, and was given 100M (becuase he was close friends with RL/GP). And never once did he do anything for the region while I was there. B24- When faced with paying your bills (transaction model) or developing the strategy that uses the best funds/assets from many sponsors but pays you over time you can't help but be biased. It's human nature.Foot - Yesterday I spoke with an individual that was in the State Farm Agency Program and we were discussing business in general. In the recent past … a local well established Agent had passed away and an opening became available. The son of one of the local State Farm Agents applied to the program and he got the Established Agency. Whilst in training other Agents babysat the Clients and upon graduating he opened his New Office and an Instant Producer. He had no assets and his father had to lease. He just recently returned from an Incentive Trip to Hawaii for Agency Production. Fair probably not but everyone knew what the situation was / is for the young Agent.
They had hired other Trainees that were opening offices in the city....what did they get probably nothing and struggle to succeed . My point is and this is my yearts speaking this goes on everywhere ....do I personally like it ...of course not ...I simply focus on my situation.Foot, now I know what you mean. I thought you meant the platform itself was biased. But that is the case no matter where you are. Most people have to start with transactional business unless they have some leg up - a lengthy salary, enough assets to survive off, a team, a working spouse, whatever - nature of the beast in the beginning. I am fortunately in the position to be able to show client’s both ways of doing it, and use whatever they feel most comfortable with. I think most people will either have a biased for or against commissions, or will just plain ask you what you think is better. I am still wrestling with how to move going forward. I am considering going all-fee (I already use C shares exclusively under 100K), but I run into too many situations where commissions make sense; for example, someone comes to me with a mutlitude of accounts, annuities, CD’s, bonds, etc., and you cannot neatly package it all into an advisory account. I recently met with a guy that has mostly has American Funds A-shares already. I can’t in good conscience sell someone out of that to fee them up, since I really like what he has. But I guess for the guy that comes with a 500K rollover, that will go into advisory.
What are your thoughts, and how do you run your business from a revenue standpoint - fees/commissions?[quote=footsoldier]I am thinking of an office that was close to 225M and was split between the RL GK and a rep in the red from a different region. The GK rep was struggling at the time (I think he may have been red at the time, too) and was contemplating leaving the industry.
And then the office opened up. Not one of the 5 brokers in the town was offered it and most if not all had more tenure. To be fair, he was NOT held up as an example. Life ain't fair, and this situation wasn't isolated. I can think of another situation where a rep who failed, came back after succeeding at a bank, and was given 100M (becuase he was close friends with RL/GP). And never once did he do anything for the region while I was there. B24- When faced with paying your bills (transaction model) or developing the strategy that uses the best funds/assets from many sponsors but pays you over time you can't help but be biased. It's human nature.[/quote] Ya know, I've been thinking about it (due to this thread). What would actually be the fair way for all concerned to split up a big office? You could theoretically split it up among all the offices in the area. Fair to them, but doesn't make ANY business sense to Jones. Give it to new brokers to make sure they survive and new offices are born. Makes total sense for Jones, but not real fair to existing advisors - not to mention a dis-incentive to prospect and grow the book (unless you are good and grow by referral). So I guess it's tough to split up an office and make it fair to everyone and still amke good business sense. There may be no right answer here, since it can also depend on proximity. For example, in my region, if there were a large office, you could not POSSIBLY split up the office, since there are very, very few offices with another office within 10 or 15 miles. That would not be fair to the clients. So what would you do in that case? What if there were no newbies waiting to open? Look for a transfer broker? Open it up to people wanting to transfer from another office? I don't know. It's never happened in my region, so I don't know what they'd do. Our most tenured advisors are rather young (early 50's), so there are not going to be any retirements or anyone jumping ship anytime soon (they're all pretty "comfortable" at Jones and with their lifestyles). The only ship-jumpers we'll see are real small producers (like under 15mm in AUM. Interesting to think about. I guess it's a conandrum with our model.B24 , see my post on State Farm. I know a number of well established agents that have mentioned they would have been happy to take on the clients. State Farm for whatever reason decided to retain clients and give to the New Agent. Why…his father is a State Farm Agent. Others in the class had more experience but no connections? The New Agent was NOT in the business before , a new perspective? Is it Corporate Politics?
Again , I say fair not really but the footsoldiers ( despite the ups and downs ) continue to succeed despite not geeting the " Deal ".You’re right Norway. I don’t know how it will ever be fair. It’s even like that at wirehouses sometimes. If you think about it, a rookie gets pulled into a team, is given 15-20mm under his number so the seniors don’t worry about him missing his bogey, adn can keep cranking it out for them. Meanwhile, the poor new/new’s sweat away for a few years until they are fired or the salary runs out. I can’t tell you how many newbs I’ve seen through our local Merrill office (and I have only seen a fraction of them).
Never has been or will be fair. If the split could be done …who gets what client that becomes the next debate. See how the problem/s continues?
The injustice isn't the fact that people get offices with more assets than others. Someone has to get those assets, they aren't going to give the closest 15 guys a million each! The injustice is the time wasting, mind numbing call sessions and regional events where these "fast starters" are now in leadership positions where they are talking, teaching, and preaching. Meanwhile, I could be home with my kids or building my business. If you don't go to these events the region is all over you, but if you go you are also miserable.
I am a GK advisor, meeting expecations, and won all of the queer awards. What I am saying is to give someone assets is one thing. To then have them leading the region and preaching to me pisses me off and you would have to be brain dead to not be bothered by it.Too bad Charles Darwin never had a chance to see some of this thread. We could have an extra theory. Lets see. Evolution of the Species. Survival of the Fittest. Natural Selection. The Great and Evil Unfairnesses Against Those Who Surely Deserved Fairness Wrapped with a Bow. Pfffffttt. Isn’t capitalism economic Darwinism? My theory has always been if I am not smart enough to convince someone to “give” me something then I’ll just get off my butt and get it myself. Either way, I am getting it! I now realize I had a third option. WHINE. Thank goodness I did not know this when I got skipped over in the “fairness” line and built it on my own. Rationalizing success or failure as someone else’s fault is unproductive and a waste of time. Last check time is all we have and we can’t get it back. Go build a huge practice anywhere you want (even Jones) and make sure your son/daughter, friend, cousin, uncle, gets the fairness you did not when you pass it to them. That is what I will do and people will say my son did not deserve it as he provides for my future grandkids.
ytrewq
Receiving assets happens everywhere all the time and at every firm. In every business you have people who get ahead because of better situations or circumstances. Again, that isnt my point.
Would you attend a seminar where a lottery winner is teaching people how to earn money? No. That is what my region does at EJ. It may not happen everywhere, but it is happening in mine and that is fact.I would dispute the “everywhere every time” quote. I got handed a big fat zero. I’ll bet most people here got the same or less than me. If they have been here a while I bet they are a success in spite of and maybe because of a big fat zero. My point is not to argue with you. My point is to argue that it does not matter. We all chose the hardest (and most rewarding) damn career we could find. We “sell” a hope and a guess and a I think maybe probably could be 5 or 10 or 30 years down the road. Oh, did I mention the rules change constantly?
If we truly base our success on what the other guy got we all win. Is it 95% of them failed and we are still here? At the end of the game when we count the chips there could be a guy or gal who has more than us because they started with more (probably not many of them). Who cares. We don’t need help. We make our own help. Nothing given to you will make you succeed at this business. You gotta be born with it.
I know a couple of the people that took chunks of that office when David Lane left. But you probably have some feelings on the issue, so before I tell you what I know, I'd like to hear what you think about the split of David's office. I will say that the history of that office is a great story. Paducah used to have one advisor. Tom Bartow. Then David Lane came in and instead of sitting on his butt and managing a $100 mil office, he darn near tripled the AUM while he was there. Today there are 11 offices in that town. And Jones has an almost unheard of 8% market share. Those Jones FAs are just shy of $500 MM in AUM cumulatively in that county. Not too shabby considering that David could have had a really good life just calling his inherited clients and taking the trails as they roll in. Would it have pissed you off more if they just would have picked someone from the home office to come out and take over the whole office? [/quote] Spiff- The version that I have heard is this. BTW, I have gone to a Bartow session before and he is not a guy I like but DEFINITELY a guy that can teach you how to do the work. I heard that there was a lot of posturing and several guys out 4-7 years that could have used more assets but instead of making that decision they opted to split the assets up and bring 2 guys into town that were in the PASS program. I find that Jones many times has a habit of rewarding the PASS program rather than the people who have actually shown that they can build a business. I think the history of the Paducah market is nothing short of impressive penetration but I would imagine that the region has some issues. I do think that anytime that you put yourself in the employee mold you can either take the slop that is given you or leave and not take it. I have a friend in my old region who has moved and taken over 2 offices in 6 years and he and I were discussing the fact that my clients are actually mine and that the office he has now are Jones clients because all he really is the 2nd or 3rd jones broker that they have had. Would I have refused 40M in assets if it was given to me? Probably not. You just have to realize that there is a price attached to it, that price is your future freedom. After you have been in the business for awhile you realize that if you built a business once you can do it again and why not do it and OWN it? Once again, I do respect you and your views and certainly have no grudge against Jones. They started me in business and they have a certain gratitude in my heart for that. That being said, they have ruined several people I know because they think that they have to accept the gruel that is dished and served to them. Is that fault of Jones? No. When i first joined the company after having dinner with the RL, my wife commented that I was joining "The Firm" like the Grisham novel. There certainly are some similarities........[quote=noggin]Paducah,KY need I say more.
Options are fairly simple don’t you think…Either grin and bear it or leave.
Where I come down on this argument is that most Jones brokers only know what they have been told by management. Even if they had success in other industries, they can't be posssibly be objective because most FA's only have experience in the Jones employee model. I agree it does know one any good to bitch about how others get treated. Life at Jones or anywhere else isn't fair especially if you work for someone else. That why I left. I am coming up on 2 year anniversary this week of independence from Jones and I could never ever go back to working to line the pockets of people I could not trust. For me the thought of ever becoming one of them (after all isn't that the goal Spiff/B24 etc.)was a compromise of my integrity that I was unwilling to make. Ron...I'll make a wager within a couple of years you will leave Jones. In fact, I would encourage any advisor that makes it 5 years to do their due diligence and survey the marketplace.Even if you did become “one of them” you would spend your entire career battling with people that didn’t listen. This too was why I decided life was too short to be spending all of my time trying to convince an organization to improve against its will. Now I only have to convince myself.
foot - You are absolutely correct. I was in the financial industry before but not as an advisor. I was considering going indy from the start but on a part time basis. Further investigation led me to the conclusion that part time wasnt going to make sense. I then heard about Jones and decided it would be a good place to go. Initially I thought that I wouldnt leave because overall I liked the culture and I didnt know any better. As time went on and I began pulling the wool off, I became less and less sold on Jones. The problem was the money I had on the side to make this transition has almost disappeared in 2 years. This led me to frustration and limited options. Now its basically a team or a bank because the 2k paychecks after taxes and insurance is absurd.
Ron, that has nothing to do with Jones. You would run into the same thing at a wirehouse or indy by yourself. You SHOULD go to a bank or join a team, that way you don’t have to work hard to build your book. You are simply blaming Jones for your lack of production. You are truly a whining pansy.
I read the post by footsoldier and luvindy atleast 12 times and I keep coming to the same conclusion. Both of you have set a world record for the most words ever used without saying a damn thing. Good God, put yourselves out of each others’ misery.
Ron 14. Since this is the internet and I have no chance of meeting you personally would you do me a favor? Please hit yourself in the head with a hammer. I hope I add a highlight to your miserable life by making you mad and you posting some stupid response that makes you feel like you put me in my place.
We can only pray the earth gets hit by another meteor.
I am off to hit myself in the head with a hammer.
That is some great stuff. Its not only my numbers that are frustrating me. I have talked to others in my region and we can see everyones production numbers via our regional newsletter. 5 yrs in without taking over an existing office the top dude/gal is doing 22k gross. What I am saying is this industry (especially EJ with the lowest in salary help) is difficult to succeed in if you dont take over assets or have a natural network.
B24 - You are truly a punk. You sit on this site and act like some big EJ producer, which you obviously are not because you are always posting, and defend everything Jones does. Just because you are bent over your regional leaders desk each month and you are too big of a pud to make a change ( probably because your wife won't let you) doesnt mean you have to rip everyone who leaves. I know you are probably 6 yrs out, barely Seg 4, licking every rear you can see to get your 20k in LP next time around so you can tell your friends and family you are a "Partner" in the firm. Most long term Jones guys are hard workers without an original thought and you are that guy. Dont be angry because I feel I can find a place that will put me in a better position to make real money. An advisor can find success in this business without door knocking and blowing guys in the stall at chamber after hours.Ytr-
I would have figured by the 11th time I was full of shit.
15 years in THIS INDUSTRY. STFUfoot
I never said you were full of sh!t. Read slower. I was only pointing out that comments like “… most Jones brokers…”, …they can’t possibly be objective…", …especially if you work for someone else…" are meaningless words. If you have actually conducted some scientific study to back up these ridiculous claims it would be different. Thousands of people work at Jones and work for other companies in many industries. You can’t possibly claim to know what they think or feel or know.
BTW if you have 15 years in THIS INDUSTRY I know I have more experience than you and I do not claim to know what others are thinking.
ytrewq - Are you still commenting? I figured after I didnt address your hammer comment you would have got the hint.
YTR-
I got handed a big fat zero. I'll bet most people here got the same or less than me. Your post earlier....Yogi would be so proud. 9 years at Jones chump. 4 years indy/insurance based prior and now 2 years indy both fee based and transactional. My comments are meaningless to you because you haven't had the experience to think for yourself yet in this industry. Your MO is to attack the messenger. The fact you admit you read the posts 12 times might indicate other issues...Where is tough guy B24? This is the longest he has been off the site in months? He is probably cleaning his RL’s pool.
[quote=Ron 14]
That is some great stuff. Its not only my numbers that are frustrating me. I have talked to others in my region and we can see everyones production numbers via our regional newsletter. 5 yrs in without taking over an existing office the top dude/gal is doing 22k gross. What I am saying is this industry (especially EJ with the lowest in salary help) is difficult to succeed in if you dont take over assets or have a natural network.
B24 - You are truly a punk. You sit on this site and act like some big EJ producer, which you obviously are not because you are always posting, and defend everything Jones does. Just because you are bent over your regional leaders desk each month and you are too big of a pud to make a change ( probably because your wife won’t let you) doesnt mean you have to rip everyone who leaves. I know you are probably 6 yrs out, barely Seg 4, licking every rear you can see to get your 20k in LP next time around so you can tell your friends and family you are a “Partner” in the firm. Most long term Jones guys are hard workers without an original thought and you are that guy. Dont be angry because I feel I can find a place that will put me in a better position to make real money. An advisor can find success in this business without door knocking and blowing guys in the stall at chamber after hours. [/quote]
[quote=B24][quote=Ron 14]Spiff and B24 - let me preface this by saying you two guys are usually right on the money and honest about the things that happen at Jones, but my experience with assets being handed out is much much different.
Since I started 2 years ago not 1 person has made it in my region as a new new. I got a goodknight from afar which provided me with 2mil. Everyone else has done a 10mil goodknight or took over an office of 10mil plus. One guy in my region took over 15 mil and has not brought in 1 single prospect from the area in which he took over the assets, NOT ONE. He is just working with existing clients and walk ins. Obviously, he won't last very long with zero prospecting but he is the new "hero" in the region. Our entire region follows the regional leader around like dogs and what he says goes. Its a miserable environment that most guys don't want to be a part of. If you go your own way you are labeled as not being a "team player." I know this because my goodknight FA pulled me aside to tell me this, along with the fact that I should only wear blue or white shirts, nothing else. Every region and every RL is different, but there is nothing wrong with being fed up or bitter regarding this type of BS. It is a reality and although EJ has a great culture overall it is difficult to put up with regional crap when you are out there on your own island. EJ isnt really your own business, its more of a franchise and you dont know that until you are a few years in.[/quote] Geeesh. That is pretty extreme. My region is NOTHING like that. My guess is that your region is much more saturated with offices, and has been around longer. Our most tenured FA has been with the firm like 17 years, and he was the first office in the state. So most FA's are in the 6-10 year range in my region. Very young region. And FYI, I never once felt that I "owned" my business. Unlimited income potential, yeah. I guess because of my background in business, I understood what they meant when they said the opportunity to "run" your own business. I look at it like being the General Manager of a business, not the owner. I always felt we were pretty much the same as any other wirehouse or regional other than our office structure. IMHO, only knuckleheads took the "business owner" thing to the extreme in thinking that they actually owned something. Anyone that thinks someone else is going to shell out all this money upfront for you to own your own business is just naive. If I ever gave the impression that I felt that way, then I mispoke. And to be honest, how other regions are run - I don't really care. I really only care about myself and how my region operates and how it affects me. My clients don't know or care that in your region you have to wear a blue suit or go to productivity meetings all the time. To be honest, if I were in your region, and what you say is really true, I probably would have left years ago (or maybe after my 3 years if I stayed in the business). Although, and not to put down you or anyone else, I am a bit more "thick skinned" when it comes to business than most people, and I don't take much crap from people above me or beside me. Years in a very tough corporate environment de-sensitized me to that stuff. So how they prop up the "new guy that got a 15mm office" sort of whining - doesn't really get to me. I have to build my own business, not worry about what other little piss-ants got handed to them. So unless someone is inhibiting my ability to build my business my way, I could care less.[/quote] Also B24 what do you mean by lack of production? You dont even know my numbers. Mine probably wouldnt make the cut at ML or SB but they are just fine for EJ.Exactly what I said. No, I have no idea what your production is. But if you were producing a lot, you wouldn’t be on here whining like a b1tch.
And if you were producing a lot you wouldn’t be on here asking about how to best use the “Welcome Wagon”.
That’s correct, sir. Never claimed to be a million dollar producer.
And I’m not whining like a little beeaaaaatch.
I know a couple of the people that took chunks of that office when David Lane left. But you probably have some feelings on the issue, so before I tell you what I know, I'd like to hear what you think about the split of David's office. I will say that the history of that office is a great story. Paducah used to have one advisor. Tom Bartow. Then David Lane came in and instead of sitting on his butt and managing a $100 mil office, he darn near tripled the AUM while he was there. Today there are 11 offices in that town. And Jones has an almost unheard of 8% market share. Those Jones FAs are just shy of $500 MM in AUM cumulatively in that county. Not too shabby considering that David could have had a really good life just calling his inherited clients and taking the trails as they roll in. Would it have pissed you off more if they just would have picked someone from the home office to come out and take over the whole office? [/quote] Spiff- The version that I have heard is this. BTW, I have gone to a Bartow session before and he is not a guy I like but DEFINITELY a guy that can teach you how to do the work. I heard that there was a lot of posturing and several guys out 4-7 years that could have used more assets but instead of making that decision they opted to split the assets up and bring 2 guys into town that were in the PASS program. I find that Jones many times has a habit of rewarding the PASS program rather than the people who have actually shown that they can build a business. I think the history of the Paducah market is nothing short of impressive penetration but I would imagine that the region has some issues. [/quote] OK, let's stick with this Paducah issue. I don't know the whole story, just like you don't, but I do know that they did a couple of things. One, they split up a huge book between lots of different FAs. One was the guy I know. He took over about $90MM if I remember my facts correctly. He was not a PASS program guy, but he wasn't straight from HQ either. They took him out of his office here in the STL area and transplanted him down there. He was from Paducah and knew David. I think that was in the cards the whole time. Now, they could have split the office 9 different ways, but when you do that you upset client's expectations. See, when you're a client in my office, you expect to come to this office and see me. What if I leave? Do you also expect to have to start going across town to see another guy? Or do you expect to work with the new guy in that office? It might upset me a little if all of a sudden I have to go to a new office AND talk to a new guy. They're already upset that David left, now they have to try to find that new office too. Granted, Paducah isn't a huge metropolis, but still it's one more change that clients have to deal with. Jones has to look at a lot of different issues, so I'm sure it's not always the ideal situation when these mega offices get split up. Nor is it perfect when they assign an FA to a regular sized open office. And I share your frustration about the guy who was handed a big office all of a sudden becoming the region superstar. Nothing bugs me more than to hear the guy who took over $50MM talk about how he "built his business." Talk about portfolio construction or technology, but don't talk to me about doorknocking if you didn't do it for more than 3 weeks. The PASS program is a different deal. In my area those guys might get $10MM if they're lucky. I know that if they are willing to move they might get more than that. That's the purpose of that program. Jones doesn't move client assets around from office to office very often. So, just because the office 250 yards away from me (I'm not kidding) doesn't have an FA, but does have $40MM, doesn't mean that I'm gonna get it. Chances are some new FA or someone from the PASS program is going to walk into a sweet deal. Sucks for me, but good for him. It is what it is.[quote=Spaceman Spiff][quote=noggin]Paducah,KY need I say more.
I know a couple of the people that took chunks of that office when David Lane left. But you probably have some feelings on the issue, so before I tell you what I know, I'd like to hear what you think about the split of David's office. I will say that the history of that office is a great story. Paducah used to have one advisor. Tom Bartow. Then David Lane came in and instead of sitting on his butt and managing a $100 mil office, he darn near tripled the AUM while he was there. Today there are 11 offices in that town. And Jones has an almost unheard of 8% market share. Those Jones FAs are just shy of $500 MM in AUM cumulatively in that county. Not too shabby considering that David could have had a really good life just calling his inherited clients and taking the trails as they roll in. Would it have pissed you off more if they just would have picked someone from the home office to come out and take over the whole office? [/quote] Spiff- The version that I have heard is this. BTW, I have gone to a Bartow session before and he is not a guy I like but DEFINITELY a guy that can teach you how to do the work. I heard that there was a lot of posturing and several guys out 4-7 years that could have used more assets but instead of making that decision they opted to split the assets up and bring 2 guys into town that were in the PASS program. I find that Jones many times has a habit of rewarding the PASS program rather than the people who have actually shown that they can build a business. I think the history of the Paducah market is nothing short of impressive penetration but I would imagine that the region has some issues. [/quote] OK, let's stick with this Paducah issue. I don't know the whole story, just like you don't, but I do know that they did a couple of things. One, they split up a huge book between lots of different FAs. One was the guy I know. He took over about $90MM if I remember my facts correctly. He was not a PASS program guy, but he wasn't straight from HQ either. They took him out of his office here in the STL area and transplanted him down there. He was from Paducah and knew David. I think that was in the cards the whole time. Now, they could have split the office 9 different ways, but when you do that you upset client's expectations. See, when you're a client in my office, you expect to come to this office and see me. What if I leave? Do you also expect to have to start going across town to see another guy? Or do you expect to work with the new guy in that office? It might upset me a little if all of a sudden I have to go to a new office AND talk to a new guy. They're already upset that David left, now they have to try to find that new office too. Granted, Paducah isn't a huge metropolis, but still it's one more change that clients have to deal with. Jones has to look at a lot of different issues, so I'm sure it's not always the ideal situation when these mega offices get split up. Nor is it perfect when they assign an FA to a regular sized open office. And I share your frustration about the guy who was handed a big office all of a sudden becoming the region superstar. Nothing bugs me more than to hear the guy who took over $50MM talk about how he "built his business." Talk about portfolio construction or technology, but don't talk to me about doorknocking if you didn't do it for more than 3 weeks. The PASS program is a different deal. In my area those guys might get $10MM if they're lucky. I know that if they are willing to move they might get more than that. That's the purpose of that program. Jones doesn't move client assets around from office to office very often. So, just because the office 250 yards away from me (I'm not kidding) doesn't have an FA, but does have $40MM, doesn't mean that I'm gonna get it. Chances are some new FA or someone from the PASS program is going to walk into a sweet deal. Sucks for me, but good for him. It is what it is. [/quote] In my Visions class there was a PASS program guy who got a 40M office and was trying to tell all of us how to do things. I finally had to tell him at the wrap up dinner " when you build an office rather than inheriting an office let us know". He stayed quiet the rest of the evening. On the other side I am sure that there are those that go through the PASS program that get very little in assets. Frankly the very reason that they are in the PASS program is that they either are very young, 1st job or they failed at an office and a regional leader went to bat for them. So one of the guys wasn't from the home office, wasn't in the PASS program, right? What about the other guy? The guy that came down that had an office in St L, I am betting he had less than 15M right? Tell the whole story, now you can do it.....[quote=noggin][quote=Spaceman Spiff][quote=noggin]Paducah,KY need I say more.
Bloomington, MN... Need I say more?
Oops, that's right, it wasn't a top five office at the Green House but probably a top 1000, say top 10%, with about $90mm in assets so who'd ever know? On Monday November 19, 2007 a 14 year vet drops dead at age 65. By the end of the week two "new" FAs are in his office, the most veteran one was licensed for 7 months and the other one licensed for 90 days. Gee as a client of a 65 year old guy with a decade and a half's experience, how am I going to feel about dealing with a kid who was in junior high when I started doing business with my recently deceased FA? IS THIS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE CLIENTS? Heck no, but it's a non-competitive situation and dead men dont mind. Congratulations KIDDIES, you really won a lottery. His obituary stated he "took great pride in his successful career as a financial advisor for edward Jones where his clients became friends and his associates became family to him" and asked "In lieu of flowers, memorials can be made in your own IRA in his honor." By the way, what did his widow get? Some flowers and a kind word... Boy we're really gonna miss ol whatshisname". Now he can rest in peace (or spin in his grave).Nog - I frankly don't know how many assets the STL guy had. I never asked him. I do know that he had a degree in Finance, interned with Jones in college, worked for a short time in HQ, opened an office in STL metro, got to Seg 3 or 4 (I don't remember which), and then moved to KY. He is intelligent, professional, and has the southern accent that helps him fit right in. Yes, he caught his golden ring. The last time I saw him I asked him if he had caught any flak over it. He said of course he had. He said he also knows he's one of the luckiest people in the country. David Lane could have said the same thing at one time. Now Jones looks at him like some sort of uberbroker. So, he's got the same choice David did. He can either sit on his $90 MM and do nothing but keep his clients happy or he can turn his $90 MM into $150 MM and enjoy life just that much more.
The PASS program is what it is. You are correct that most of the guys in that program are either too green for the field or didn't make it the first time. So, they get some training and then get back at it. The design of the program is for all of them to take over books. The size of office they take over varies. Some will take over large books, some will take over virtually nothing. It's not a perfect program, but it works.SupermanFan - I know absolutely nothing about Bloomington, MN. I can only assume that the RL and the area leader in STL looked at the situation and did the best they could with the people they had. My guess is the two new guys didn’t have offices yet, so it was easy for them to drop what they were doing and take over. They probably also didn’t have an existing book of business to deal with either. Would it have pissed you off if Jones would have given the one guy in town who had been with Jones since 2000 the whole book? Just moved those clients over to him?
This open office thing has got to be a Jones anomoly. If that guy would have passed away while working for ML, by the end of the week his accounts would have ended up with who knows how many different advisors in the local branch. Since that's not the Jones model, it doesn't work that way now does it? I don't know what his widow got. Probably some life insurance, his LP dollars, his 401k. Jones didn't buy her out. He made a choice not be an indy advisor, so he didn't own his book. That doesn't mean Jones is some big evil company. It's just the business model. I know that if I died today, my wife wouldn't be able to sell my book to the highest bidder. She wouldn't know how or where to start and my clients would suffer in the time it took her to figure it out. So, let's say you're an indy. Today at lunch you choke on your Big Mac and keel over. Dead at 50. Who services your clients? Who pays your rent check? Who pays your secretary? Who do your clients call? How long does it take for LPL, RayJay, or whoever to figure out you're dead? Who takes care of your book until all that gets figured out? Does LPL have Transitional Reps who will come out and sit in your office until someone buys your book? Do your clients have to move their accounts to a different office? Do they get to keep talking to your secretary? Does she stay? Now, granted, your wife will have something of value to sell. So, perhaps she's willing to do the due diligence to make sure she gets a fair value for the book. How long does that process take? Does LPL help her figure out what her deceased husbands book worth? What if she just simply doesn't want to deal with it? Is all of that in the best interest of clients?I will say, this is one of those issues that I wish firms would address (most of the wirehouses are in the same boat as Jones, I believe). It seems to me that the right thing to do is to essentially “Goodknight” or “Sunset” the office, and give a % of the gross over the next X years to the deceased estate, with the balance of the gross going to the advisor taking over. That doesn’t take any money out of Jones’ wallet, it is fair to the deceased’s family, and it is also fair to the guy that was handed the book.
It seems to me that it is such a rare event for an FA to pass away during his career, that they should offer this to FA's families. It seems to me that no more than a dozen or so FA's pass away each year.It’s going to happen more and more, as the boomers get older.
But a more important issue is retirement. When you retire, can you sell your book? That's a substantial asset that a lot of advisors will lose, because they don't own their book to sell.Spiff and B24-
This was exactly my issue/reason for leaving Jones. There was no succession plan, then, just promises of a plan. I saw two large offices come and go to others non-deserving (even outside the company let alone the region) and friends/goodknights of the RL. And it really isn't a succession plan because you must remain working for 3 years to receive the commission earned on a declining split. The real issue for me was the desire to bring in a family member or two over the next 15 years. And if it didn't happen, then as you and others have said now, we can sell our assets because we own it. This week marks two years of independence. I was there 9 years and am thankful for the experience, and grateful for the opportunity to be the GP of my firm.Foot,
I don't disagree with you. The program Jones has for "retiring" FA's is similar to at some of the wirehouses (I know Merrill does it anyway). However, you are right, it's odd that you still have to work for those 3 years (at Merrill you leave). Although, I always wondered how much the retiring FA actually "works" during those 3 years. It may be a way to maintain benefits, etc. Jones has done an 'OK' job of implementing the retirement policy. However, I think they still have a ways to go. I can't for the life of me understand why it isn't richer for the departing FA. It costs Jones nothing - it comes out of the pocket of the new FA taking over. I would love to see a richer split, and for 5 years, and no working requirement (well, maybe a year or two to transition clients - even if you sell a book as an indy, you usually have to stay on for some time as part of the P&S Agreement). I am willing to bet during the next several years, Jones will improve that plan.Retirement is still a bit different than dying, like the other post was about. I have some sort of control over when I retire. Not so much when I die. I too believe that Jones could do a better job with this issue. I’m not saying there needs to be some sort of golden parachute, but at least some recognition of the hard work you’ve put in for those years. Of course, they’ll argue that you don’t own your book and that when you retire, you should have done a good enough job saving that you don’t have to worry about your book being sold. I like B24’s commission split idea. You should put that in a Suggbox and see where it goes.
foot - what happens if you die tonight on the way home from the office? How does it work at indyworld? Let's assume for the sake of discussion that there are no kids or partners with a buy/sell agreement. So, there's no quick out for your wife.It’s our responsibility as Indy’s to have an agreement on file in the event of our death. I do.
When I first started I had nothing in place, but I recently agreed to a buy/sell with another advisor and we are currently getting the life insurance in place.
My book is currently worth approx 500K (looks like trailing will end up close to 150K and transaction of 2-250K this year)and the tricky part was dealing with a biz that's growing, I chose to insure the biz for more (1M) and will have to evaluate along the way if its adequate. My calcs are 2X for trailing and .8 for transaction.
At first I thought I would license my wife, but now I think its better for all if she gets cashed out if I croak. Spiff- Don't belittle the retirement issue. One of the benefits of indy vs employee is 45K deferral vs 15.5K, and everything related to the biz is deductible. I think I have mentioned that I employ my wife part-time, another benefit.Responsibility or requirement? There’s a difference. If it’s a requirement, you’re telling me that every indy office on the planet has a contingency plan in place in case of death. If it’s a responsibilty there are going to be some pretty upset clients out there at some point in the future.
So, you have one. Who else knows about it? How long does it take for it to go into effect? It may take a few weeks before a death certificate is available. A couple more weeks before you can get it from the surviving spouse. A couple more weeks on top of that to run it through the appropriate parties. Does your B/D have any way of knowing that you've passed on or that you have an agreement in place? Do they have copies of those records on file somewhere? What kind of legal issues are there? Is it like an estate that has to settle? Now, I'm not saying that the Jones way of doing things is perfect. Far from it. But if I'm a Jones client and my FA passes away I'm going to get a phone call from the new guy or the Transitional Rep to tell me that everything is OK. Sure I have to meet a new guy, but at least I still have the relationship with the BOA. My statement still looks the same. The office hasn't changed. People don't like negative change in their investments/plan.foot - I’m not belittling the retirement issue. I think I said that I agree with B24 that it is something Jones needs to address. I figure I’ve got 20 years or more for them to figure it out. I also get the deferral differences.
My issue here is with the complaining about the way Jones handles an FA leaving or dying. I've taken the steps (life insurance) to make sure that my spouse is taken care of if I die prematurely. I understand completely that if I die today, they'll probably have a new guy in my desk next Monday. Just the facts of working for EDJ. I would assume there are a whole lot of other issues when you die as an indy. I'm also going to guess that whatever plans you make, might not be all that kosher with your clients. Again, the change thing. So, what would have happened with your clients if you had died last month before this b/s agreement was in place?[quote=Spaceman Spiff]foot - I’m not belittling the retirement issue. I think I said that I agree with B24 that it is something Jones needs to address. I figure I’ve got 20 years or more for them to figure it out. I also get the deferral differences.
My issue here is with the complaining about the way Jones handles an FA leaving or dying. I've taken the steps (life insurance) to make sure that my spouse is taken care of if I die prematurely. I understand completely that if I die today, they'll probably have a new guy in my desk next Monday. Just the facts of working for EDJ. I would assume there are a whole lot of other issues when you die as an indy. I'm also going to guess that whatever plans you make, might not be all that kosher with your clients. Again, the change thing. So, what would have happened with your clients if you had died last month before this b/s agreement was in place? [/quote] Not to drone on into infinity but you mentioned 1 guy that went to Paducah, i was under the impression that 2 went into that area. Was or was not the 2nd guy a pass program person?I don't know. I told you in one of the posts that, like you, I didn't know the whole story. Why does it matter?
Spiff-
If you are implying that my wife would have to deal with the tremendous grief of losing her soul mate (i.e., she tolerates me) of 25 years, keep our 3 girls on their paths to success (hopefully) and try to find a buyer and calm clients fears at the same time, yeah I agree it was a serious void in our plan to protect ourselves and our business. A risk that I believe in hindsight should be part of the process sooner than 2 years after a transition to independence. One result of independence, is no one tells you what to do, you have to seek out competent legal and tax advisors who should direct you to deal with the tough issues. I'll take a stab at a guess as to the percentage of reps that actually finalize these important issues. Probably less than 25%.Congrats for being in that probable 25%. I would imagine that your wife sleeps a bit easier at night knowing that at least one more part of your life is protected and planned for.
I'm still curious about the procedures if an indy broker dies without a plan in place. At this point I'm not even concerned about the debate we were having earlier. My curiousity has been peaked and I'd like to know how it works. All of these conversations we have about indy vs Jones go into my memory banks and get stored away for possible future use. Call it an emergency contingency plan. Probably never going to get used, but you never know.[quote=Spaceman Spiff]
Congrats for being in that probable 25%. I would imagine that your wife sleeps a bit easier at night knowing that at least one more part of your life is protected and planned for.
I'm still curious about the procedures if an indy broker dies without a plan in place. At this point I'm not even concerned about the debate we were having earlier. My curiousity has been peaked and I'd like to know how it works. All of these conversations we have about indy vs Jones go into my memory banks and get stored away for possible future use. Call it an emergency contingency plan. Probably never going to get used, but you never know. [/quote] I don't recall the specifics, but one issue is that the business can't be transferred to another advisor unless there is written instruction to do so. The spouse would own the business through the estate, and then I believe would have to go through some process with the firm to allow the business to be transferred to the new advisor. This could be done immediately if there was a plan, if there wasn't and she has to find an advisor, I imagine it would be done after that agreement is finalized. Certainly under the circumstances it wouldn't be the most attractive purchase, but from what I gather it is not hard to sell a financial planning practice these days. ETA: It is clear to me RJ sees this as an issue and they are working very hard to make sure their advisors have plans in place.She could techincally own the business. However, if there was no licensed FA to receive the commissions/fees, then there would not be much income coming into the business. I believe the commissions would have to revert to the B/D until a licensed broker was in place. However, there may be ways that a B/D works around this in these circumstances.
I still like it at Jones and am not thinking of leaving.
The way the firm handles inherited assets though sometimes can be galling. Asset inheritors, in general, tend to act like because they were doing good at the time of the "hand off" that they would have never hit the 3 or 5 year slump. Also, asset inheritors tend to downplay the effect of the extra trails they receive. In effect, the have much less risk then the average newbie. I've been out about five years. My town has been rocked by the foreclosure crisis. Honestly, I don't know if I'll make it. My office is on the cusp. It's galling to me that I might wash out and all the asset inheritors remain. My region is loaded with asset inheritors. There are so many of them - it's hard to tell who's accomplished what. Let me say, I hold no grudge against these people personally. They saw a good opportunity and took it. I would have done the same. I have to wonder what the HR people are thinking when they literally grease the skids for some people and ignore others. Anyone can post good numbers for a year or two. I was a star out of the gate too. Common sense tells you that if you have five employees and you line four pockets (with inherited dough) and one person is left standing in the cold - morale might suffer a bit. I'm litertally surrounded by asset inheritors in my region. Everyone tells me it doesn't matter. Maybe it doesn't - but it gives you a complex after a while. You think, "They got behind everyone else - why couldn't they have give me a break as well". I'm trying to be the good guy and work my way through it. The big handoffs happened two years ago. About 140 (mil) was passed out. Three of my surrounding brokers hit the lottery and we got goose egged. My numbers were good at the time. Though I've tried to put it out of my mind - it stayed with me. Ironically, my noble attitude of trying to be the good guy might come back to bite me because this current downturn is so severe many of the small guys are starting to wash out. Maybe I should have bailed when my numbers were good. One thing that makes me feel better. They can't take away what I've accomplished if I do go down. I've won three production awards in five years and have built my branch from scratch. If I go down - it's been a noble fight. To be surrounded by inheritors though sometimes cuts. I'm in this literal fight to survive. I was much happier when I was surrounded by people like myself - people fighting to grow their businesses. When they all struck gold and we were goose egged it's never really been the same for me. What lifts me above all the political BS (and yes it is BS) is my genuine love for my clients. Even though Jones botches inherited assets, overall I still think they're a pretty good place to work. Thanks for listening..... Glass ManThis is an ongoing issue. However, I don’t know what the right answer is. It’s not that big an issue at wirehouses, because it’s always limited to those within the branch offcie of the departing broker. But even there, senior brokers get preference, and it all depends on the BOM. Sometimes the producing BOM will take any good accounts and give out the rest. It’s not just Jones. It’s the freakin’ industry. It’s just that at Jones, everyone knows everyone’s business, so you can’t help but focus on what everyone else is doing and been handed. One of my best friends at Jones inherited a 25mm office. Nothing huge, but that is basically the point of a “self sustaining” office. Your focus changes when you inherit big $$.
Keep one thing in mind…I have found, almost without fail, that the guys that inherit money (GK, office takeover, whatever) do not work as hard or prospect as hard. Their businesses are strong in the beginning, but they tend to “plateau”. The “scratch” starters have a prospecting mindset that tends to carry with them. There are exceptions, but the point is that what you are building now is stronger than what the “inheritors” have built. That’s not a rah-rah speech, it’s more factual. You know every client. You sweat for every account. You will get the referrals. Just keep building it. They will come (just kidding).
Feel free to PM me if you feel like ranting.
For the record, Glass Man and Soothsayer are not the same person posting under different identities. I think we just had an eerily similar Jones experience.
What I can tell you, Glass Man, is that the feelings you are having now will not go away--ever--period! The feelings of resentment, rejection, inadequacy, envy, jealousy, anger, obstinence, disassociatation, apathy, etc., etc. etc. will only grow deeper and stronger from here on out. Do yourself, your family, and your clients a tremendous favor--start making your exit strategy tomorrow. Make a timeline, set goals for yourself again (not standards that are unfairly applied to both you and asset inheritors), become your own man, and get ready to stick it to the man. 18-24 months later, you'll be able to look your former colleagues in the eye, and you may not quite yet be making f-you money, but you'll have an f-you confidence and heir that they'll sense and feel and respect. In short, you'll get your swagger back because in fact you are the man! For the record, 5 years later, I've got the f-you money, too. Jones is a pimple on my ass today. I still hate the bastards. (It helps to motivate me.) But, for the most part, it is a firm of pikers and wannabes that serves as a puppy mill for people who want to take their careers and clients to the next level. Best of luck to you, my brotha!Sooth - it seems really pathetic to me to read that five years after the fact you are still thinking about Jones enough that it gives you some sort of motivation. Pikers and wannabes? Really? Puppy mill? Again, really?
And you know what you do with pimples? You pop them and they go away. It's time to stop looking in the mirror at your butt. Glass man - you wanna "be the man"? Do it where it makes you happy. If it's at Jones, stop worrying about what the other guy got and go make something happen for yourself. This whining about the other people in your region getting something that you didn't isn't helping you succeed long term. YOU are what will make you successful. You could inherit a $50 mil office, do nothing with it, and still fail. Now, if you think you can "be the man" better at LPL, go right ahead. Knock yourself out. But you'll probably find other things to whine about over there. It's not a perfect world and you can find excuses for failure all over the place.This is an entertaining thread guys…
Someone might of said it earllier but here's my .02..having never worked at Jones I can tell you glass man that what you're experiencing happens all the time in the wirehouse environment. Doesn't make any diff wheather you're at ML, WB, Morgan Stanley or Jones they all have one thing in common & that is there is a branch manger or equivalent type guy who decides who he's going to feed & who he's not going to feed. Often the person whom he feeds first is his own book if he a producing bom. Keep in mind that if you're struggling with this concept at Jones try working in a wirehouse in this environment when a big hitter resigns & the bom drops $60 mill in one of his boys lap. It happens every day & it's just something you live with.Difference with Jones is that the RL’s don’t get to take over books like that. They can’t assign assets to themselves. And there are generally rules about who can take over assets and who can’t. Generally, you get one shot at taking over assets. So, make it a good shot.
Thanks guys. Good advice all the way around.
I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I'm going to regroup a little bit. Part of what's going on is old fashioned burn out. I haven't taken a week off in two years. With my numbers weak I'm afraid to take a week off. I see both sides of the issue. It's not good to be a grumbler. It's not my style. On the other hand, I've found once a situation starts to turn bad it's hard to turn it around. I've got to get energized again. I hate to admit it - but I wasn't ready for bear market two (who was). I was just starting to get to where the job was getting good and then I was thrust back into the bad old days. I thought maybe we'd have a down 5% or a down 8% this year. Who expected this apocalyptic end of the world stuff. Realistically, I know the market will survive. Will my branch? What I may do is buy a leads list. With a fresh list I can turn my brain off, start pounding the phone, and see what happens. I door knock as well but I live in a rural town. I have to burn miles to doorknock. It's real spread out. I got to get back to where I'm enjoying the job. My mind has been racing with what else I would do if I were to leave. I have two degrees. I have a BS in Business and I have an MBA. I do enjoy sales but I'm not a fanatic. I get tired of chasing people around sometimes. I've done a lot of client retention this week. I've made a lot of phones calls. Hand holding isn't very profitable though - at least not in the short term. I went into production in 01 and switched firms in 03. I did about 2 and a half years at Merrill. Too be honest I really enjoyed my time at Merrill. I came close to getting over the top there but got divorced in 03. The divorce plus the bad market took me out. At Merrill you knew where you stood. They didn't have this group "mythology" about everyone starting from scratch. Actually that clarity was a good thing. If you were a pion - you clearly knew it. Clarity is good I think. I really appreciate the feedback. I still would prefer my branch to survive and I know to do that I need to get energized. What I have is this high stress and sluggishness. The job hasn't been fun for a while. If I were to leave - at least I made it to the five year point. I notice in the brokerage industry alot of people have an "all or nothing" mentallity. With five years in I couldn't call it a complete failure if I left. It would be a move in another direction. The part of the business I like best is my clients. Sorry for the long ramble. It helps to vent. Glass ManHey Ice,
When I switched firms I botched my switch. I lost some assets and it set me back a year. No, I'm not on drugs. The job would probably be easier if I were. My office is located in a town that's been rocked by the sub-prime mortgage crisis. I know I can't use that as an excuse but the largest city next to me has the highest rate of foreclosure in California. The largest industries in my town are Real Estate and Construction. The economy here is not diversified. I know the dogmatic idea that all towns are equal. Jones has a religious zeal about pretending that all towns are equal. This isn't religion though and nobody at Jones is going to save my soul. My town for all intents and purposes is shut down right now. I think overall Jones rural and small town strategy work pretty good. I think the town my office is in is a marginal town. It's a very spread out commuter town. I'm working on sinking my teeth into the town but it's been hard to get it over the hump. Also, I work hard to network my out of town clients for referrals. I'm actually quite happy to have the new feee based format at Jones. It hasn't been around long enough to do me any good. Overall the long haul it should be another quiver in my arrowcase. I have no illusions. I'm not a natural salesman. I must have done something right to survive five years but I need to re-evaluate my game plan to keep surviving. Actually, I pay my bills fine. It's the quota I'm struggling with. Last year I was smoking the quota. This year has been a literal nightmare. I haven't thrown in the towel but it's almost like the job is completely different. I think the burnout is caused by this prolonged struggle. You get tired of being in a state of "perpetual emergency". I don't mind stress. I normally work quite well under pressure. At points this year has been so tough sometimes changing jobs does seem like the solution. Going back to the asset inheritors, I was holding my own with them before they struck inherited asset gold. I know I got to forget about them now because they have nothing to do with my business. Hopefully this bailout will go through and it will be easier to prospect with conviction. I am sure some of the increased stress is just the result of the unique market phenominon that we are witnessing. I hope that this is just like all the other pullbacks and that in two years we are back to normal. Later. GlassGlass,
As an outsider looking in, you seem much too focused on outside forces ("JONES'S religious zeal about all towns being equal", or what someone else inherited has NOTHING to do with your business. Another firm will not solve either of those problems. Instead of focusing on that stuff, pretend you ARE independant. What would you do then? Other than the financial structure, nothing would change. You would still haev to prospect, you would still have to find new clients, you would still have to convince people to work with you. Honestly, I virtually ignore the fact that I am with Jones. To me, they are a platform. But I don't expect a single thing from them other than their platform (and the services that go with it). And despite what anyone says, a different platform will not make me more successful with what I am doing RIGHT NOW. Maybe some day if my client base shifts, or I need something different I would need a different platform. But today, I am the only thing standing in the way of my success. Point is, just make sure you aer focusing on the right things.B24
That's good advice. I'm going to try to simplify my business and get back to basics. G[quote=glass man]Thanks guys. Good advice all the way around.
I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I'm going to regroup a little bit. Part of what's going on is old fashioned burn out. I haven't taken a week off in two years. With my numbers weak I'm afraid to take a week off. I see both sides of the issue. It's not good to be a grumbler. It's not my style. On the other hand, I've found once a situation starts to turn bad it's hard to turn it around. I've got to get energized again. I hate to admit it - but I wasn't ready for bear market two (who was). I was just starting to get to where the job was getting good and then I was thrust back into the bad old days. I thought maybe we'd have a down 5% or a down 8% this year. Who expected this apocalyptic end of the world stuff. Realistically, I know the market will survive. Will my branch? What I may do is buy a leads list. With a fresh list I can turn my brain off, start pounding the phone, and see what happens. I door knock as well but I live in a rural town. I have to burn miles to doorknock. It's real spread out. I got to get back to where I'm enjoying the job. My mind has been racing with what else I would do if I were to leave. I have two degrees. I have a BS in Business and I have an MBA. I do enjoy sales but I'm not a fanatic. I get tired of chasing people around sometimes. I've done a lot of client retention this week. I've made a lot of phones calls. Hand holding isn't very profitable though - at least not in the short term. I went into production in 01 and switched firms in 03. I did about 2 and a half years at Merrill. Too be honest I really enjoyed my time at Merrill. I came close to getting over the top there but got divorced in 03. The divorce plus the bad market took me out. At Merrill you knew where you stood. They didn't have this group "mythology" about everyone starting from scratch. Actually that clarity was a good thing. If you were a pion - you clearly knew it. Clarity is good I think. I really appreciate the feedback. I still would prefer my branch to survive and I know to do that I need to get energized. What I have is this high stress and sluggishness. The job hasn't been fun for a while. If I were to leave - at least I made it to the five year point. I notice in the brokerage industry alot of people have an "all or nothing" mentallity. With five years in I couldn't call it a complete failure if I left. It would be a move in another direction. The part of the business I like best is my clients. Sorry for the long ramble. It helps to vent. Glass Man[/quote] As I mentioned earlier, the fact that a broker can just slowly wither away is terrifying. I've always taken solace in the often-repeated Jones quote that says "if you'll work harder than most will for five years, you can live better than most can for the rest of your life." Obviously, there should have been a disclaimer attatched to that quote. There are a few five-year plus folks in my region who are sucking serious pond water and fighting to keep their jobs right now. I guess it proves that you must never quit prospecting...the part of the job that is most distasteful. During a conference call yesterday afternoon, one of the GP's made a great suggestion to run a list of our most used funds in the branch and then run a hypo from 01/14/2000 until now. I ran Investment Company of America. $10,000 is now $12,809 with a 2.91% average annual return. Uh oh. How about Growth Fund? $10,000 is now $12,831 with a 2.93% average annual return. Oops. I had to move way down the list and grab good ol' CAIBX and CWGIX to find something that has actually beaten CD's over that period--and CDs are 100% risk free. Just how long is long term? I agree with Glass Man. It's very difficult to sell with conviction right now. Especially when your father- and mother-in-law are yelling at you over the decline in their portfolio. They want to know just how flippin' long is long term? Anyone? Anyone? Common guys, let's go ahead and push that bailout package through. Who cares what four generations from now have to pay back?I think if I look back at my first 5 years, I will be honest and say I didn’t work every evening, every Saturday, hand a card to anyone who would take it. I didn’t knock on every door I could have or called every prospect at least 7 times. I trully believe if you do make the total, 110% comittment to this industry, you can hit the ball out of the park. Most of us think we work that hard, but in reality, if we did, or if I did, I would be making 300-400k at my 7 year in the business.
My goal, starting next week, is to work at least 2 nights a week and every Saturday possible, just to see what the real potential is in this industry. Most of us don't know what the real potential is, because we won't or can't in some cases, put the needed time and focus in. My wife, for example, is a medical professional with two practices. SHE is completely focused on her chosen career and after 10 years has 7000 client files, 9 staff members and 1.4mil in production. She puts in 110%. She is in the office by 7am and is rarely home by 6pm. She then makes calls patients at night to review there progress after a procedure. Goes to 4 or 5 seminars a year in her field. She is part of two associations which meets quarterly. She eats, drinks and dreams about her profession. Even on her occasional day off, like today, she is in the office talking with our accountant, reviewing ytd production vs goals. If I had half her dedication, I would no doubt be pushing 500k in production or more. But, SHE SUCKS AT GOLF AND I DON'T.Borker.....have to agree with Ice on his observations on " negative vibes ". P.M. if you want to discuss.
[quote=iceco1d]Borker,
You need to clear your head and find a new mindset soon or you are probably going to fail out. Your negativity lately towards the industry, your job, and your firm are getting pretty overwhelming. Maybe you need to explore other options/firms, or rethink your business plan? I dunno. A few points: 1. CDs are NOT "risk free." 2. "Long Term" to me means at least 10 years. 3. Considering a "long term" time frame is not the end-all, be-all for a flawed portfolio design or poor investment strategy. 4. Fee-based business should allow anyone who makes it 5 years at a wire, or EDJ, to never fail. 5. After 5 years in the biz, you should have enough referrals to keep you fairly busy...if you aren't getting them, you are probably doing something wrong. I have less than 2 years in the biz and they are already keeping me pretty busy. As Spears mentioned above, he could have done plenty more as well, but yet, he is pretty successful.[/quote] My production's fine. I haven't had one in a while, but I just came off a net $10,000 month. It's not about the money; it's about the stress that comes from having folks I've been friends with for years yelling at me. It's about calling people and telling them they will not be getting back the $21,000 they put with Lehman Brothers that was providing income for them to pay their bills. It's about dealing with people sitting in my office who are retired and living off their investments and trying to figure out if they should go back to work: while they have their heads in their faces and are crying. I'm paying my bills. I just didn't realize that my quality of life and close relationships would be so strained in this business. We have so little control over the things we sell people, it's terrifying.One of the things I tell people, especially the DIY types, is that one of the things I offer is the ability to separate the emotion from the investing. It appears you are having a difficult time with that. It’s great to have those relationships, but it makes it more difficult to go through times like this with them.
"We have so little control over the things we sell people, it's terrifying." - Once you convince yourself of this and learn to control what you can control, like diversification, then your life gets that much easier.[quote=bspears]I think if I look back at my first 5 years, I will be honest and say I didn’t work every evening, every Saturday, hand a card to anyone who would take it. I didn’t knock on every door I could have or called every prospect at least 7 times. I trully believe if you do make the total, 110% comittment to this industry, you can hit the ball out of the park. Most of us think we work that hard, but in reality, if we did, or if I did, I would be making 300-400k at my 7 year in the business.
My goal, starting next week, is to work at least 2 nights a week and every Saturday possible, just to see what the real potential is in this industry. Most of us don't know what the real potential is, because we won't or can't in some cases, put the needed time and focus in. My wife, for example, is a medical professional with two practices. SHE is completely focused on her chosen career and after 10 years has 7000 client files, 9 staff members and 1.4mil in production. She puts in 110%. She is in the office by 7am and is rarely home by 6pm. She then makes calls patients at night to review there progress after a procedure. Goes to 4 or 5 seminars a year in her field. She is part of two associations which meets quarterly. She eats, drinks and dreams about her profession. Even on her occasional day off, like today, she is in the office talking with our accountant, reviewing ytd production vs goals. If I had half her dedication, I would no doubt be pushing 500k in production or more. But, SHE SUCKS AT GOLF AND I DON'T. [/quote] Bspears...does that mean the EDJ guy who is doing 110% will make as much as the indy guy putting in about 75% of the effort?[quote=Borker Boy][quote=iceco1d]Borker,
You need to clear your head and find a new mindset soon or you are probably going to fail out. Your negativity lately towards the industry, your job, and your firm are getting pretty overwhelming. Maybe you need to explore other options/firms, or rethink your business plan? I dunno. A few points: 1. CDs are NOT "risk free." 2. "Long Term" to me means at least 10 years. 3. Considering a "long term" time frame is not the end-all, be-all for a flawed portfolio design or poor investment strategy. 4. Fee-based business should allow anyone who makes it 5 years at a wire, or EDJ, to never fail. 5. After 5 years in the biz, you should have enough referrals to keep you fairly busy...if you aren't getting them, you are probably doing something wrong. I have less than 2 years in the biz and they are already keeping me pretty busy. As Spears mentioned above, he could have done plenty more as well, but yet, he is pretty successful.[/quote] My production's fine. I haven't had one in a while, but I just came off a net $10,000 month. It's not about the money; it's about the stress that comes from having folks I've been friends with for years yelling at me. It's about calling people and telling them they will not be getting back the $21,000 they put with Lehman Brothers that was providing income for them to pay their bills. It's about dealing with people sitting in my office who are retired and living off their investments and trying to figure out if they should go back to work: while they have their heads in their faces and are crying. I'm paying my bills. I just didn't realize that my quality of life and close relationships would be so strained in this business. We have so little control over the things we sell people, it's terrifying.[/quote] Borker, You don't want to hear this...There is NOTHING you can do to remedy the current situation. Reality is sometimes we have to accept things as they are. Clients DO know that. Of course they blame you but you're simply the drive thru operator at McDonalds that takes the abuse when the order is screwed up. As long as you've done your "job", take it for what it is. Your business dictates that you personally extract as much money from your practice as is humanly possible in the most ethical and responible manner. You want friends, get a dog. I'm no EDJ cheerleader but do what they tell you to do - you'll be fineRock solid post.
I'm having similar thoughts about ways to revitalize my branch.[quote=Borker Boy] [quote=iceco1d]Borker,
You need to clear your head and find a new mindset soon or you are probably going to fail out. Your negativity lately towards the industry, your job, and your firm are getting pretty overwhelming. Maybe you need to explore other options/firms, or rethink your business plan? I dunno.
A few points:
1. CDs are NOT "risk free."
2. “Long Term” to me means at least 10 years.
3. Considering a “long term” time frame is not the end-all, be-all for a flawed portfolio design or poor investment strategy.
4. Fee-based business should allow anyone who makes it 5 years at a wire, or EDJ, to never fail.
5. After 5 years in the biz, you should have enough referrals to keep you fairly busy…if you aren’t getting them, you are probably doing something wrong. I have less than 2 years in the biz and they are already keeping me pretty busy. As Spears mentioned above, he could have done plenty more as well, but yet, he is pretty successful.[/quote]
My production’s fine. I haven’t had one in a while, but I just came off a net $10,000 month.
It’s not about the money; it’s about the stress that comes from having folks I’ve been friends with for years yelling at me.
It’s about calling people and telling them they will not be getting back the $21,000 they put with Lehman Brothers that was providing income for them to pay their bills.
It’s about dealing with people sitting in my office who are retired and living off their investments and trying to figure out if they should go back to work: while they have their heads in their faces and are crying.
I’m paying my bills. I just didn’t realize that my quality of life and close relationships would be so strained in this business.
We have so little control over the things we sell people, it’s terrifying.[/quote]
Borker, this is one weird post.
This is not nearly the worst it’s ever been (have you LOOKED at a chart of 2000-2002?). If you have lost THAT much money for clients, then you may be doing something wrong with your asset allocations. How could retired folks have lost so much money that they have to go back to work? Granted, bonds have not been stellar, but a conservastive balance of investments might be off 10% from peak to trough right now. Yes, an all-equity portfolio will be off more-or-less double that, but a retired person??
Are things really that bad for you?
Wow, maybe you should have put them in Equity Indexed Annuities. You’d be rich and they’d be happier.
Borkerboy, you have to find a way to add value. You are down in the dumps because you aren’t adding value. If all that you do is get someone to go from fund XYZ to fund ABC, you’ve added no value. If all that you do is get someone to move from CD’s to fund ABC, it’s the market that is determining whether you have added value and not your advice.
You need to find ways in which you add value...even if you do absolutely nothing to change one's rate of return. Picking the "correct" mutual fund is not how we add value. I'm going to start another thread on this.It’s on a prorated basis. And if Jones lets you go, you aren’t obligated to pay anything. You only have to pay back if you choose to leave.
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