Jones Secrets Revealed, Part IV

But you said you don’t check the facts so that might not be correct?

[quote=spikedkoolaid]

... minus 1% for the National Advertising program.  [/quote]

Ugh, you mean the FAs have to pay for those pathetic ads? wow...

Yes Mike....my life, my world, it all begins with a dream.....urrp. Just threw up a little in my mouth.

At least now, they have funnier ads. Better than the my life, my world crap.

If you sell a fixed annuity you don't have to look at the Jones' Reccommended vi,31333.  Different companies offer different commissions for fixed products.  For example, AIG may be offering a 4% commission even though their rate is lower than the Hartford product only offering 2% commission.  You have to delve into the fine print in order to find these gems.  Jones doesn't want you to find out that certain companies are offering a higher commission for the same products.

Spiked - you are the type of broker that when leaving, the remaining IRs say “he was a compliance issue” You are a joke, and if only your clients could find out whose pocket you were looking out for.

[quote=Incredible Hulk]Spiked - you are the type of broker that when leaving, the remaining IRs say "he was a compliance issue" You are a joke, and if only your clients could find out whose pocket you were looking out for.[/quote]

And just whose pocket are you looking out for?  Did you get into the brokerage business to wear a hair shirt and do good works for the poor?  Do you put your earnings into the EDJ poor box and preach the gospel according to St. Louis?

[quote=Philo Kvetch]

[quote=Incredible Hulk]Spiked - you are the type of broker that when leaving, the remaining IRs say "he was a compliance issue" You are a joke, and if only your clients could find out whose pocket you were looking out for.[/quote]

And just whose pocket are you looking out for?  Did you get into the brokerage business to wear a hair shirt and do good works for the poor?  Do you put your earnings into the EDJ poor box and preach the gospel according to St. Louis?

[/quote]

Spiked-

You have been very bad... you will now recite 3 Our Bachmann's, and 4 Hail Weddle's....

(Borrowed this from Devoted....)

P.S. On the annuity stuff they don't tell you.... AIG also has a "C" share annuity with a minimum guarantee. No upfront, no surrender fees... if the Market Value doesn't go up, death benefit still pays 3% compound interest. Up to age 90!  They call it the 'super CD".

Spiked - nice story.  I love how incredible comes out to say it was just you - that's a surprise.  Here's another incredible:  THIS WAS THE SAME TYPE OF TRICK my RL taught me when I was at Jones; his way of building recurring revenue. 

Doing what's right for the client - it's crap like this that causes us formers to be so bitter at Jones but on cloud 9 as independent.

[quote=Philo Kvetch]

And just whose pocket are you looking out for?  Did you get into the brokerage business to wear a hair shirt and do good works for the poor?  Do you put your earnings into the EDJ poor box and preach the gospel according to St. Louis?

[/quote]

 Philo you crack me up. But WHAT'S a hair shirt? Would

I’m lovin this, Big Lew

Me too, this is some good schidt.... Hey, thanks to a big mouth RL/GP in your area, Jones is already ponying up to the table with a couple of fat checks... why not make it three?

Now, see- you guys know how to use the internet, bring on e-mail!

[quote=Philo Kvetch]

[quote=Incredible Hulk]Spiked - you are the type of broker that when leaving, the remaining IRs say “he was a compliance issue” You are a joke, and if only your clients could find out whose pocket you were looking out for.[/quote]

And just whose pocket are you looking out for? Did you get into the brokerage business to wear a hair shirt and do good works for the poor? Do you put your earnings into the EDJ poor box and preach the gospel according to St. Louis?

[quote=munytalks] [quote=Philo Kvetch]

[quote=Incredible Hulk]Spiked - you are the type of broker that when leaving, the remaining IRs say “he was a compliance issue” You are a joke, and if only your clients could find out whose pocket you were looking out for.[/quote]

And just whose pocket are you looking out for? Did you get into the brokerage business to wear a hair shirt and do good works for the poor? Do you put your earnings into the EDJ poor box and preach the gospel according to St. Louis?

[/quote]

Spiked-

You have been very bad… you will now recite 3 Our Bachmann’s, and 4 Hail Weddle’s…

(Borrowed this from Devoted…)

P.S. On the annuity stuff they don’t tell you… AIG also has a “C” share annuity with a minimum guarantee. No upfront, no surrender fees… if the Market Value doesn’t go up, death benefit still pays 3% compound interest. Up to age 90! They call it the 'super CD".

THIS WAS THE SAME TYPE OF TRICK my RL taught me when I was at Jones; his way of building recurring revenue.

How about spelling his last name by starting future posts with the next

letter in his name. I’d love to look up his U-4.

Incredible, if you truly wanted to do what’s right by your clients, you’d send them to a broker who knew what he or she was doing.  (In the event that you miss the subtlety, that ain’t you.)

[quote=Philo Kvetch]

Incredible, if you truly wanted to do what’s right by your clients, you’d send them to a broker who knew what he or she was doing. (In the event that you miss the subtlety, that ain’t you.)

I’m OK with it, as long as you’re willing to accept the fact that in doing so, you are by definition a blunderer.

Incredible, if you truly wanted to do what’s right by your clients, you’d send them to a broker who knew what he or she was doing. (In the event that you miss the subtlety, that ain’t you.)

[quote=Incredible Hulk] [quote=Starka] Incredible, if you truly wanted to do what's right by your clients, you'd send them to a broker who knew what he or she was doing.  (In the event that you miss the subtlety, that ain't you.)[/quote]

cood u splain me y i aint no gud at brokerin?[/quote]

Certainly, my benighted little friend.

You see, by keeping your customers at Jones, you are limiting their options to perhaps 20% of the investing universe.  By doing so, you're limiting their ability to a) preserve their assets, and b) increase the value of their portfolios.  Now if you're simply unaware, we can just chalk that up to stupidity, but if you're willfully ignorant of the facts, that's tantamount to negligence.

As to your next post, it's clear that I'm superior to you in many, many respects.

Anything else that I can help you with? 

Starka - you remind me of my college roommate. He would write a paper and then use the thesaurus to plug words in to make himself feel smart. I’m very impressed with your vocabulary.



Boy, I feel really dumb after reading your post. I guess I’ll go ahead and quit a couple of months before my 3 month anniversary. I AM doing my clients a disservice. Wow, thanks for opening my eyes. Maybe Broker Recruit can get me a job with a real firm.



Could you walk me through just how I have limited my clients ability to preserve their assets and increase the value of their portfolios? Use small words so I can understand please.

[quote=Incredible Hulk]Starka - you remind me of my college roommate. He would write a paper and then use the thesaurus to plug words in to make himself feel smart. I'm very impressed with your vocabulary.

Boy, I feel really dumb after reading your post. I guess I'll go ahead and quit a couple of months before my 3 month anniversary. I AM doing my clients a disservice. Wow, thanks for opening my eyes. Maybe Broker Recruit can get me a job with a real firm.

Could you walk me through just how I have limited my clients ability to preserve their assets and increase the value of their portfolios? Use small words so I can understand please.[/quote]

I just did explain it. 

Get your dictionary out and use it.

I’m kinda slow, could you walk me through what investments I don’t have that that "limit their ability to a) preserve their assets, and b) increase the value of their portfolios."



Thanks for all the help!

Sure.

To start with, tell me about your experiences so far with options.  Have you done many butterfly spreads?  Then tell me all about the trust work you've done.  How about health insurance?  Who are you appointed with?  Have you done much with untraded REITs?  How's your research department on small and mid-cap equities?  How's your portfolio analysis software?  How about your financial planning stuff?  Why do you only buy and sell bonds through the Jones inventory?  Do you have many foreign bonds in said inventory?  Although there are breakpoints on bonds in your system, why doesn't that savings get passed on to the customer?  Why does Jones insure AAA rated bonds, and pay the customer a lower coupon rate than the uninsured version of the same AAA rated bond bought and sold in the open market?  Why is Jones the only firm interested in buying these insured bonds back, albeit at a significant discount?  Who keeps the 250bp haircut on VA sales?  How does an A share annuity benefit the client?  Why are you encouraged to sell fund families such as Federated, Goldman Sachs and Hartford, when they are clearly lower-tier managers who regularly underperform their peers?  Why are your money market rates so laughably low?

That should be a good start towards your education.

Incredible - what the trick was moron was:

Drop a portion in a UIT that matures in 5, 7, 10 years - reinvest the dividend into another product.  Coming from Jones we all should discount everything you say out right - IRREGARDLESS.

Keep denying the reality it only keeps us chuckling stupid.

and let me just go one more step as I anticipate your inability to understand what I am trying to illustrate.

That 1/3 of the $ that was sent to the UIT comes due and as my old RL taught me, there's another $100k or whatever that you get to reinvest into something again with another fat commission - and NO, we were encouraged not to roll it into the new UIT issue but into something that did pay us.  And also on the reinvested dividend, another form of recurring revenue in that it would go into a fund for a little commission there too.  Given the typical 2000 client book of Jones advisors, after time that would eventually add up too.

CS, Starka,

You forgot the most laughable program of all. The mandatory CE class on ethics.

[quote=Incredible Hulk] [quote=munytalks] [quote=Philo Kvetch]

[quote=Incredible Hulk]Spiked - you are the type of broker that when leaving, the remaining IRs say "he was a compliance issue" You are a joke, and if only your clients could find out whose pocket you were looking out for.[/quote]

And just whose pocket are you looking out for?  Did you get into the brokerage business to wear a hair shirt and do good works for the poor?  Do you put your earnings into the EDJ poor box and preach the gospel according to St. Louis?

[/quote]

Spiked-

You have been very bad... you will now recite 3 Our Bachmann's, and 4 Hail Weddle's....

(Borrowed this from Devoted....)

P.S. On the annuity stuff they don't tell you.... AIG also has a "C" share annuity with a minimum guarantee. No upfront, no surrender fees... if the Market Value doesn't go up, death benefit still pays 3% compound interest. Up to age 90!  They call it the 'super CD".

[/quote]

If a Jones broker doesn't know about this annuity, it is their fault. It has nothing to do with hiding it from us. I have a number of these on the books. BTW there is a 1% CDSC on that for a year.[/quote]

Did not mean to imply that the firm "hides" it from you, I was simply letting others know it is there.... I knew a 14 year Vet who did not know about it.

Okay, quiz for you then... does Jones have a Bonus Annuity Product available?  

Starka raised a valid point about A share annuities. If they are in the best interest of the client, then why, particularly in today's regulatory oversight environment, is Jones the only shop of any size to offer them? And there's another practice at Jones that also should bring some inquiries: When a client goes into a margin debit situation, Jones does not transfer $ from the cash money market to cover the debit. They charge the client interest on the debit at a much higher rate than the money market pays. I am not aware of other firms doing this, but it seems the best interest of the client is again ignored here.

[quote=midtown]

Starka raised a valid point about A share annuities. If they are in the best interest of the client, then why, particularly in today's regulatory oversight environment, is Jones the only shop of any size to offer them? And there's another practice at Jones that also should bring some inquiries: When a client goes into a margin debit situation, Jones does not transfer $ from the cash money market to cover the debit. They charge the client interest on the debit at a much higher rate than the money market pays. I am not aware of other firms doing this, but it seems the best interest of the client is again ignored here.

[/quote]

Are you saying that if I run a debit balance at Jones, but have a money market account with a positive balance, that Jones will NOT transfer money from my MM account to pay off the debit?

Will NOT do it, or is it up to the rep to request a journal entry or some other mechanical step?

Also, regarding A share annuities.  Are you saying that Jones will not allow you to sell anything else, or are you saying they push you in that direction by the way they compensate you?

Jones pushes you in that direction for A shares. Why? It is simple. They

were pro-active in defending the widespread sales of VAs, in particular

inside of IRA accounts. All of this prior to living benefits becoming a huge

selling point. Not knocking them here but it really has nothing to do for the

client’s interest.

The propoganda we always heard was that no others wanted to sell it but it was available to them.

I have to question what we are told at EDJ, whether A share annuities are always best for the client. When they first came out, they was dissension in the ranks for awhile. Now it seems its the norm. The wholesalers come into my office  lead with the DCA rates and invariably they will say, that the annual rate on the dca will cover our commission.

Truth- Forgive me, but what living benefits do you give up with an A share over the others?

You don’t give them up. That was not what I was referencing. What I was

saying is that Jones was concerned with the volume of annuities they were

selling pre- living benefit riders. They went with the A share version to

show that commissions were not the driving force behind the number of VAs

sold.

there are a very low amount of VAs sold at Jones especially in IRAs. If you want to bust people on VAs go to other companies like AMEX, AXA, NW Mutual. Bust Jones on what they are bad for, there are plenty of them, but not on annuity sales.

[quote=midtown]Starka raised a valid point about A share annuities. If they are in the best interest of the client, then why, particularly in today's regulatory oversight environment, is Jones the only shop of any size to offer them? [/quote]

You Jones haters are really reaching on this one.  If A share annuities are bad, why aren't A share mutual funds also bad?  Franklin doesn't even offer B shares anymore and most MF companies and B/Ds won't allow investments over $50k into a B share.  If you want to rip on Jones, from everything I have read, there is plenty of ammo - limited (and crappy) products, cult-like culture, awful tech, etc.  But to rip on the A share annuity, that just shows you are motivated more by spite than logic.

peanut broker, why did you bring up VAs in IRAs?

[quote=lawsucks]

[quote=midtown]Starka raised a valid point about A share annuities. If they are in the best interest of the client, then why, particularly in today's regulatory oversight environment, is Jones the only shop of any size to offer them? [/quote]

You Jones haters are really reaching on this one.  If A share annuities are bad, why aren't A share mutual funds also bad?  Franklin doesn't even offer B shares anymore and most MF companies and B/Ds won't allow investments over $50k into a B share.  If you want to rip on Jones, from everything I have read, there is plenty of ammo - limited (and crappy) products, cult-like culture, awful tech, etc.  But to rip on the A share annuity, that just shows you are motivated more by spite than logic.

[/quote]

As I've asked on another thread, how does an A share VA equate to A share mutual funds?  You're arguing apples v oranges. 

Peanut-



Go to the head of the insurance department at Jones and get the figures.

You will find relative to your peers your firm sells a high number of VAs,

especially inside of IRA accounts. Thus the primary reason for the A share

product. Firm being proactive and for that I do not fault them. Other name

firms just make it more difficult to sell.

[quote=Philo Kvetch]As I've asked on another thread, how does an A share VA equate to A share mutual funds?  You're arguing apples v oranges. [/quote]

I'm not comparing an annuity to a mutual fund as an investment, I'm just comparing the way we get paid as advisors.  Personally, I welcome the trend we are seeing towards either charging an up front, A share,  type commission or an ongoing, fee-based or C share, type charge.  More transparent, which is good for the client, the advisor, and the industry as a whole, in my opinion.

So Big Lew thinks he knows my name:  I guess that validates everything I’ve said…I guess it’s all true!  So to those who doubted the words I’ve spoke, please ask Big Lew to ellaborate.  I’m waiting…

As for A-Share Annuities they are great for missing breakpoints.  So a client comes in with $250,000.  You put $100,000 into an A-Share Annuity with Protective and then put $85,000 with A-Share American Funds (because Protective doesn’t have American Funds in their VA product) and then $65,000 into secondary UIT’s (net 4.5) and DCA the interest into the A-Share American Funds.  That’s what they call diversification at Jones!

NASD Newbie -

I believe the rep has to manually journal the $ to cover the debit.

If not done, the interest will continue to be charged while the cash
sits there. Can anyone explain why these mechanics can’t be set so it
is automatic? Client can carry $ mkt at lower rates than interest
charged to the account. What is rationale?

NASD, yes of course if a client runs a debit balance a rep can "float" funds from Margin (provided there are securities to create a margin loan) or journal from another account. At Jones, however if a client is a constant "bad check" writer the rep has the choice to revoke the debit balance and not pay it -or- if the rep does not respond prior to 8:30 am PST (i.e. if you cannot reach Mr. Mrs. Client) then Jones has no choice but to revoke the debit.

Ok, here's the one I love--

Jones' technology is so archaic that when you buy a bond or secondary income UIT and DCA the interest into mutual funds there is no way to check for breakpoints.  The reinvestment always went in at full boat 5.75%.  There was no way to even track this through the Jones system. 

Jones' systems also did not allow for aggregrating people's holdings.  The breakpoint system was up to the IR.  When you had your annual "surprise" audit, the audit person would ask why didn't you give this person a breakpoint on this trade and the answer was always, "I thought the system would catch it."  The audit person would then ask you to correct it manually.  This seemed odd to me, that they were the Field Supervisor but they weren't catching stuff until months later.  The $1000 or $10,000 trades they never even cared about.   As long as it was just a couple you were given a satisfactory grade.

Spiked,  Not to defend Jones, but after the $75million fine, they did fix the systematic trading platform, so the client does get the correct b/p on systematic trades. 

The system for manual trades is still the same, though.  The rep enters the order for a certain breakpoint, and if it's not correct, then the system might catch it a week later or so, causing cancelled and re-entered trades (at a loss to the IR, I might add).

Why can't the system just automate the breakpoints like it does on systematic trades????? Who knows.

Spiked,  Keep the "Secrets" coming.  I do enjoy them.

Dudley

Mr. Dudley,

It sounds like they have closed some loopholes in the technology.  They still haven't corrected the sandbagging that a lot of the newbies do in order to hit certain segments.

For example, if an IR receives a check on Friday and the end of the pay period is Tuesday, a lot of IR's simply wait to put their trades in until Wednesday, thus pushing their commissions into the next pay period, so as to look good to their RL, DL, and others.  I think this completely F#%#cks the customer. 

What if the market moves up 200 to 300 points on Monday or Tuesday.  Oh I forgot, Jones suggests you DCA the money into the market over time.  I want to know one Jones IR who is sitting on a $100k+ ticket and they suggest to the client to put it in over 12 months.  There is no one, because then the IR wouldn't get paid. 

Jones claims they are doing what's right for the customer but they breed a culture that allows IR's to perceive to look good instead of being good.  If the IR waits to put trades in then they look better the next month. 

[quote=spikedkoolaid]So Big Lew thinks he knows my name:  I guess that validates everything I’ve said…I guess it’s all true!  So to those who doubted the words I’ve spoke, please ask Big Lew to ellaborate.  I’m waiting…[/quote]

Where did this happen?  Was the post deleted?
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[quote=Starka]

Sure.

To start with, tell me about your experiences so far with options. Have you done many butterfly spreads? That’s 1



Then tell me all about the trust work you’ve done. I have 3 Accts with our Trust Dept



How about health insurance? Who are you appointed with? Are you kidding?



Have you done much with untraded REITs? That’s 2



How’s your research department on small and mid-cap equities? If you’re independent, it’s better than yours - I have access to our “research”, S&P, and BCA



How’s your portfolio analysis software? Am I wrong to think that Goldman Sachs/Morningstar X-Ray is not very good?



How about your financial planning stuff? It’s getting better and will be just fine by year end.



Why do you only buy and sell bonds through the Jones inventory? Our bond desk will go out to the secondary market with a simple phone call - Sorry!



Do you have many foreign bonds in said inventory? That is 3.

Although, for my typical client, we are better off buying a foreign bond fund than an individual one.



Although there are breakpoints on bonds in your system, why doesn’t that savings get passed on to the customer? I’m not following you here. Do you discount your services? Should I make 1 point on a 15 year bond? Oh, I see, I should charge a 1% wrap on a 15 year bond instead.



Why does Jones insure AAA rated bonds, and pay the customer a lower coupon rate than the uninsured version of the same AAA rated bond bought and sold in the open market? You are mistaken, my friend.



Why is Jones the only firm interested in buying these insured bonds back, albeit at a significant discount? The traders look at the open market and if there is a higher bid than ours, then the bond is sold elsewhere. Unfortunately there isn’t a large market for 10-25k pieces.



Who keeps the 250bp haircut on VA sales? This is a good question, but does not pertain to the initial comment.



How does an A share annuity benefit the client? In the same manner that a B share annuity does, with lower ongoing expenses.



Why are you encouraged to sell fund families such as Federated, Goldman Sachs and Hartford, when they are clearly lower-tier managers who regularly underperform their peers? Goldman Sachs is a lower tier firm? Tell that to Bill Gates. While both Hartford and Federated have some lower tier funds, they have a couple of very fine funds. But again, how does this pertain to the initial comment?



Why are your money market rates so laughably low?

That should be a good start towards your education.

As for A-Share Annuities they are great for missing breakpoints. So a client comes in with $250,000. You put $100,000 into an A-Share Annuity with Protective and then put $85,000 with A-Share American Funds (because Protective doesn’t have American Funds in their VA product) and then $65,000 into secondary UIT’s (net 4.5) and DCA the interest into the A-Share American Funds. That’s what they call diversification at Jones!

[quote=csmelnix]

Incredible - what the trick was moron was:

Drop a portion in a UIT that matures in 5, 7, 10 years - reinvest the dividend into another product. Coming from Jones we all should discount everything you say out right - IRREGARDLESS.

Keep denying the reality it only keeps us chuckling stupid.

[quote=munytalks] [quote=Incredible Hulk] [quote=munytalks] [quote=Philo Kvetch]

[quote=Incredible Hulk]Spiked - you are the type of broker that when leaving, the remaining IRs say “he was a compliance issue” You are a joke, and if only your clients could find out whose pocket you were looking out for.[/quote]

And just whose pocket are you looking out for? Did you get into the brokerage business to wear a hair shirt and do good works for the poor? Do you put your earnings into the EDJ poor box and preach the gospel according to St. Louis?

[/quote]

Spiked-

You have been very bad… you will now recite 3 Our Bachmann’s, and 4 Hail Weddle’s…

(Borrowed this from Devoted…)

P.S. On the annuity stuff they don’t tell you… AIG also has a “C” share annuity with a minimum guarantee. No upfront, no surrender fees… if the Market Value doesn’t go up, death benefit still pays 3% compound interest. Up to age 90! They call it the 'super CD".

[/quote] If a Jones broker doesn’t know about this annuity, it is their fault. It has nothing to do with hiding it from us. I have a number of these on the books. BTW there is a 1% CDSC on that for a year.[/quote]

Did not mean to imply that the firm “hides” it from you, I was simply letting others know it is there… I knew a 14 year Vet who did not know about it.

Okay, quiz for you then… does Jones have a Bonus Annuity Product available?

Starka raised a valid point about A share annuities. If they are in the best interest of the client, then why, particularly in today’s regulatory oversight environment, is Jones the only shop of any size to offer them? And there’s another practice at Jones that also should bring some inquiries: When a client goes into a margin debit situation, Jones does not transfer $ from the cash money market to cover the debit. They charge the client interest on the debit at a much higher rate than the money market pays. I am not aware of other firms doing this, but it seems the best interest of the client is again ignored here.

As for A-Share Annuities they are great for missing breakpoints. So a client comes in with $250,000. You put $100,000 into an A-Share Annuity with Protective and then put $85,000 with A-Share American Funds (because Protective doesn’t have American Funds in their VA product) and then $65,000 into secondary UIT’s (net 4.5) and DCA the interest into the A-Share American Funds. That’s what they call diversification at Jones!

Incredible, go back and do your homework again.

"You're worng" is not a valid response when 1) You can't rebut a point and 2) I'm correct.

Nice try though.  When you can't defend your position, obfuscate.

(Wow.  Three whole accounts with your trust department.  You don't even know what you were asked, do you?)

Incredible - you just proved my point with your rebuttal - thank you.

The "trick" stupid was just what the JONES RL was teaching us new guys.  The "trick" is one of the many bullsh*t stories that takes place with Jones yet they continue to preach "what's best for the client" - maybe if you just opened your eyes you would have seen how I phrased that.

BTW - your rebuttal to Starka was  - have another glass because you are almost Jones green.

Incredible, why do you think you need a dictionary (which you've admitted that you're 'too lazy' to go retrieve) to have a minimal command of the English language?

When you muster the energy to go find your dictionary, look for that copy of the dictionary of financial terms that you were given at KYC class.  You apparently need a lot of help there as well.

[quote=Incredible Hulk] [quote=munytalks] [quote=Incredible Hulk] [quote=munytalks] [quote=Philo Kvetch]

[quote=Incredible Hulk]Spiked - you are the type of broker that when leaving, the remaining IRs say "he was a compliance issue" You are a joke, and if only your clients could find out whose pocket you were looking out for.[/quote]

And just whose pocket are you looking out for?  Did you get into the brokerage business to wear a hair shirt and do good works for the poor?  Do you put your earnings into the EDJ poor box and preach the gospel according to St. Louis?

[/quote]

Spiked-

You have been very bad... you will now recite 3 Our Bachmann's, and 4 Hail Weddle's....

(Borrowed this from Devoted....)

P.S. On the annuity stuff they don't tell you.... AIG also has a "C" share annuity with a minimum guarantee. No upfront, no surrender fees... if the Market Value doesn't go up, death benefit still pays 3% compound interest. Up to age 90!  They call it the 'super CD".

[/quote] If a Jones broker doesn't know about this annuity, it is their fault. It has nothing to do with hiding it from us. I have a number of these on the books. BTW there is a 1% CDSC on that for a year.[/quote]

Did not mean to imply that the firm "hides" it from you, I was simply letting others know it is there.... I knew a 14 year Vet who did not know about it.

Okay, quiz for you then... does Jones have a Bonus Annuity Product available?  

[/quote]


MetLife has a 403b program with a 6 or 7% bonus. I haven't worked the school system much, but it's a pretty good program for teachers that will retire in 5 years or so (there is a clause that the owner can get out after only 5 years if they retire)...
[/quote]

Hulk- A+ - good work. And you are right, the only problem with this product is it mainly applies to teachers - though it can be used for County/Non-profit as well. Good product, though.

Good luck in trying to get a school teacher to decided to do anything!

[quote=Starka]Good luck in trying to get a school teacher to decided to do anything![/quote]

Except to do something stupid.

Like cash out Roth-TSA & buy EIA from lunch-n-learn guy, or cash out IRA to buy REAL ESTATE b/c it can ONLY go up, or insist on buying municipal bonds in an IRA b/c then I can take the money out tax-free. (yes I know this makes no sense)

We hate teachers more than we hate Real Estate agents.

[quote=Starka]

Incredible, go back and do your homework again.

“You’re worng” is not a valid response when 1) You can’t rebut a point and 2) I’m correct.

Nice try though. When you can’t defend your position, obfuscate.

(Wow. Three whole accounts with your trust department. You don’t even know what you were asked, do you?)

[quote=Incredible Hulk]But I'm only 3 months out so what do I know.[/quote]

Not much, but time and education can fix that.  You'd be wise to listen to Starka with an open mind and without so much hostility.

At three months out, you have no clue how much you don't know.

Just keep your eyes open Hulk and the truth will set you free.

Hulk you really need to get some perspective outside of Jones.  Go make a friend at a wirehouse.  You'll find out that most people in this business want to use the resources avail to them to do the best thing for their clients.  I have a few things to say about your so-called rebuttal below.

[quote=Incredible Hulk] [quote=Starka]

Sure.

To start with, tell me about your experiences so far with options. Have you done many butterfly spreads? That's 1

Then tell me all about the trust work you've done. I have 3 Accts with our Trust Dept

How about health insurance?  Who are you appointed with? Are you kidding? Are you talking to your self employed clients about high deductible plans with an HSA?  It might be a good idea to know something about health insurance.

Have you done much with untraded REITs? That's 2

How's your research department on small and mid-cap equities? If you're independent, it's better than yours - I have access to our "research", S&P, and BCA You don't even have access to all the S&P research.  I was just in a Jones office the other day and had the IR pull up a report on a certain stock.  About a third of the info was missing.  Apparently Jones only gives you guys the dumbed down version of S&P.  And who ever told you that independent reps have no access to research?  Clue in man, you just sound dumb with this kind of stuff.

How's your portfolio analysis software? Am I wrong to think that Goldman Sachs/Morningstar X-Ray is not very good? I don't know what exactly your point is here, but I would consider Morningstar's X-ray better than "Portfolio" and even that is given to you by a vendor. No Conflict there!

How about your financial planning stuff? It's getting better and will be just fine by year end. Welcome to the developed world.

Why do you only buy and sell bonds through the Jones inventory? Our bond desk will go out to the secondary market with a simple phone call - Sorry!

Do you have many foreign bonds in said inventory? That is 3.
Although, for my typical client, we are better off buying a foreign bond fund than an individual one.

Although there are breakpoints on bonds in your system, why doesn't that savings get passed on to the customer? I'm not following you here. Do you discount your services? Should I make 1 point on a 15 year bond? Oh, I see, I should charge a 1% wrap on a 15 year bond instead.

Why does Jones insure AAA rated bonds, and pay the customer a lower coupon rate than the uninsured version of the same AAA rated bond bought and sold in the open market? You are mistaken, my friend.

Why is Jones the only firm interested in buying these insured bonds back, albeit at a significant discount? The traders look at the open market and if there is a higher bid than ours, then the bond is sold elsewhere. Unfortunately there isn't a large market for 10-25k pieces.

Who keeps the 250bp haircut on VA sales? This is a good question, but does not pertain to the initial comment.

How does an A share annuity benefit the client? In the same manner that a B share annuity does, with lower ongoing expenses.

Why are you encouraged to sell fund families such as Federated, Goldman Sachs and Hartford, when they are clearly lower-tier managers who regularly underperform their peers? Goldman Sachs is a lower tier firm? Tell that to Bill Gates. While both Hartford and Federated have some lower tier funds, they have a couple of very fine funds. But again, how does this pertain to the initial comment?
Man you need to repeat that Goldman story garbage to people who don't know better(your clients and prospects)  Bill does not own Goldman Mutual Funds.  On a side note, the expenses on the A shares of many of the "pref funds" are as high if not higher than the total expenses of my fee based advisory accts.  No Loads with an 85pb annual fee is pretty cost effective.  And since Dodge and Cox, Vanguard, et al don't so much as give me a free pen, I dont have the conflict of interest you have.
Why are your money market rates so laughably low?

That should be a good start towards your education.

[/quote]

Thanks for the uh, lesson. I counted 3 "options in the investment universe" that I am lacking. If that is 80% of the investment universe, how many investments are there? I'm sure someone more informed than you could come up with a few others, but good luck finding 80%. Either you read and believe the bs that is posted by ex jonesers or you didn't do your due diligence when you were with us. [/quote]

"My Friend" as you respectfully say, maybe you should do some real due diligence for a change and quit repeating the mantra. 

Exdrone —



At what did I say that the A shares were the best, or my way is best, or your way is bad and more expensive?



Hartford Cap Ap has higher fees that I would like, but you can’t argue with the return AFTER expenses.



A pen IS the only thing American funds is handing out these days albeit one at a time.



I believe you should quit repeating the same old tired "mantra."



Sigh…

[quote=Indyone]

[quote=Incredible Hulk]But I’m only 3 months out so what do I know.[/quote]

Not much, but time and education can fix that. You’d be wise to listen to Starka with an open mind and without so much hostility.

At three months out, you have no clue how much you don’t know.

exdrone -



insert point in my first line



line 2: that = than



line 3: you = YOU

On the contrary, Hulk.  Your comments are VERY funny.

Starka,



Could you make a comprehensive list outlining the 80% of the investment universe I don’t have available?



You make a statement that is clearly incorrect. When you are called on it, you deflect time after time. I find your ignorance funny. But, apparently ignorance is bliss.



Please come up with a better line than I know you are but what am I.

Incredible,  With due respect.  I'm a fellow Jonesy, and whatever 80% of unavailable investments they're talking about is irrelevant.  The main thing that matters is that we have no fee-based platform.  Yes, I know MAP is supposed to suffice, but as you know, it's way too expensive, and of the managers available, none have superior performance. 

A true fee-based platform would allow us to sit on the "same side of the table" as the client and allow us to select the best possible investments, and not be tied down by the "breakpoint monster".  Until Jones considers adopting that model at least as an alternative, I'm concerned.  Sure, a fee-based model isn't always best, but shouldn't we, as the advisers who know our clients needs the best, at least have it available?

Thanks,

Dudley

[quote=Incredible Hulk]Starka,



Could you make a comprehensive list outlining the 80% of the investment universe I don’t have available?



You make a statement that is clearly incorrect. When you are called on it, you deflect time after time. I find your ignorance funny. But, apparently ignorance is bliss.



Please come up with a better line than I know you are but what am I.[/quote]

OK Hulk I’ll help with a few ideas…

1.  Non-traded REIT’s
2.  Managed Futures Funds
3.  Fee-based mutual fund program.
4.  Senior Loan/Floating Rate Mutual Funds
5.  Auction Rate Preferreds


I’m sure there’s quite a few more, but that’s a good start…
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Hulk, that fact that you say I'm wrong about my statements does not make it so.  You are unaware of much that goes on at Jones so you scoff when it's pointed out.

You don't have to believe me...do the homework and ask the questions like I did.  If you chose to be willfully ignorant, that's fine too.  Good luck at EDJ.

Dudley-

I agree with you. We should have all tools available. More vets will have to leave to make them take notice.

I would bet the family farm against it happening under Weddle's tenure. I know they are others out there that think he will change the course. Time will tell.

[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=Incredible Hulk]Starka,

Could you make a comprehensive list outlining the 80% of the investment universe I don't have available?

You make a statement that is clearly incorrect. When you are called on it, you deflect time after time. I find your ignorance funny. But, apparently ignorance is bliss.

Please come up with a better line than I know you are but what am I.[/quote]

OK Hulk I'll help with a few ideas....

1.  Non-traded REIT's
2.  Managed Futures Funds
3.  Fee-based mutual fund program.
4.  Senior Loan/Floating Rate Mutual Funds
5.  Auction Rate Preferreds


I'm sure there's quite a few more, but that's a good start....
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//–> [/quote]

Here are some more. Investments I didn't have at Jones that I do now.  Also items where the selection was so very limited at Jones

Things I don't have that I did at Jones.  A share annuites and access to IPOs.  Most indy firms don't have an investment banking department.

What IPO’s did you have access to at Jones?

Hulk,

I agree with Hart Cap Ap having great track record but explain to me how you put Cap Ap into a portfolio and avoid the Hart funds with a less than attractive record when a client brings in 50,000 or 100,000; and avoid an FSPEND or St Loius calling your client to explain to them that they could have hit a breakpoint by purchasing Hart Stock fund.

Cap Ap is the only thing from Hart my clients own (fee based) and I can pair it up with better funds to fill in the almighty investment pyramid

[quote=The Truth]What IPO's did you have access to at Jones?[/quote]

A few years ago, EDJ would get a few shares of IPOs from Goldman.  (Payback for having GS as a preferred fund family?)

At any rate, there would be an office lottery, and if selected, the winning office would get perhaps 200 shares of the IPO.  UPS is one that comes to mind from that period.

[quote=The Truth]What IPO's did you have access to at Jones?[/quote]

There were a very few. I can't remember which because it was some years ago.  More of the offerings were secondary.  In addition a lot of corporate bonds as new issues were available.  In my currenty indy world, I have only had access to a few secondary offerings. 

I forgot to mention that I can now do 1031 exchanges.  They are rare occurances but very lucrative.  I work with a couple of CPAs and Attorneys who have high net worth clients with commercial real estate holdings who need to defer their cap gains and have grown tired of dealing with the actual property. 

[quote=Starka]

[quote=The Truth]What IPO's did you have access to at Jones?[/quote]

A few years ago, EDJ would get a few shares of IPOs from Goldman.  (Payback for having GS as a preferred fund family?)

At any rate, there would be an office lottery, and if selected, the winning office would get perhaps 200 shares of the IPO.  UPS is one that comes to mind from that period.

[/quote]

The Jones IPO system is an office lottery.  If your office is chosen you are alloted 100 shares of the stock.  If you had more than one client with an indication then an additional lottery took place to decide which of your clients would receive the 100 shares!  Working the issue was a complete waste of time.  Making calls to get one client no more than 100 shares is a joke.  Also, the IR has no control over which client gets the shares.

Sounds like the best way to serve a client - "I have a great IPO, but unfortunately, you were second in the drawing to purchase 100 shares.  Thus, Mr. Smith will be the one reaping these benefits, not you.  Want to buy some more Am. Funds, though?  And by the way, did you see our JD Powers & Assoc. award?"

BR-

Drum roll please.

And now for only $60 I can purchase a hand made replica of the JD award. Thanks to the marketing department for coming up with the ultimate door stop, and of course due to the economies of scale, i.e., the suckers I mean IR's, will pay less than the average joe because there are so many of us who will be waiting in line for the opportunity.

Whew. I am out of breath with excitement.

[quote=footsoldier]

BR-

Drum roll please.

And now for only $60 I can purchase a hand made replica of the JD award. Thanks to the marketing department for coming up with the ultimate door stop, and of course due to the economies of scale, i.e., the suckers I mean IR's, will pay less than the average joe because there are so many of us who will be waiting in line for the opportunity.

Whew. I am out of breath with excitement.

[/quote]

If putting that award in your office wins a single convert it will have been money well spent.

There are thousands of Jones brokers who are making very attractive livings, caring for their families and enjoying their communities.

What a shame that you whiners on this forum cannot do the same.

If the award really meant something, we would have clients coming in droves because of it. I have never seen it as long as I have been with Jones.

I will say that everyone is looking for an advantage. It isn't just EDJ. Went into my bank to make my mortgage payment and there was a picture of the award on the window. So Jones may only have the exclusive in terms of CHARGING us along with 1% gross for those ads you see on cable. So NASD maybe there is a hint of whinerism in my post, but when you see it from our  side there is a stench.

And this forum provides a sounding board. It used to be for sales ideas. In fact with all your years in this industry, why don't you start a thread about sales ideas. Can you give us any?

Are you kidding, foot?

That useless scheisskopf Put Trader couldn't sell a thing without Daddy's help.  And he ended up a failed "middle manager" even with the leg up.

Pretty boring stuff.

A new thread for sales ideas.  Ok, that sounds good.  I'll get right on that one.

Here is my sales idea.  Be outstanding for your clients accounts.  Do all the money management yourself.  Perform well, not only on a relative basis but also on an absolute basis.  ABSOLUTE BASIS

Learn how to manage stocks.  Become a skilled technician.  Learn how to short.  Assume all the responsibility for their accounts and let your performance speak for yourself.  Especially in down markets. Teach your clients about all the BS that is Wall Street.  Protect them from the scums that run the firms and run the street.

Do this year after year and you will bring in referrals on a consistant basis.  You will be treated great by your wirehouse...if that is where you work.

You will be your own king.  There's my sales idea.

[quote=Greenhills]

Pretty boring stuff.

A new thread for sales ideas. Ok, that sounds good. I’ll get right on that one.

Here is my sales idea. Be outstanding for your clients accounts. Do all the money management yourself. Perform well, not only on a relative basis but also on an absolute basis. ABSOLUTE BASIS

Learn how to manage stocks. Become a skilled technician. Learn how to short. Assume all the responsibility for their accounts and let your performance speak for yourself. Especially in down markets. Teach your clients about all the BS that is Wall Street. Protect them from the scums that run the firms and run the street.

Do this year after year and you will bring in referrals on a consistant basis. You will be treated great by your wirehouse…if that is where you work.

You will be your own king. There’s my sales idea.

[quote=bankrep1] [quote=Greenhills]

Pretty boring stuff.

A new thread for sales ideas.  Ok, that sounds good.  I'll get right on that one.

Here is my sales idea.  Be outstanding for your clients accounts.  Do all the money management yourself.  Perform well, not only on a relative basis but also on an absolute basis.  ABSOLUTE BASIS

Learn how to manage stocks.  Become a skilled technician.  Learn how to short.  Assume all the responsibility for their accounts and let your performance speak for yourself.  Especially in down markets. Teach your clients about all the BS that is Wall Street.  Protect them from the scums that run the firms and run the street.

Do this year after year and you will bring in referrals on a consistant basis.  You will be treated great by your wirehouse...if that is where you work.

You will be your own king.  There's my sales idea.

[/quote]

Why don't you start your own fund and become a money manager? An advisor's job is to advise, not manage. I spend my day creating plans, prospecting and meeting with clients and there other advisor's, when do you have time to research stocks, read 10K's etc.? [/quote]

This whole AUM idea is still too new to know with any degree of certainty how investors will react when they lose 25% of their account.

There is an old adage in the street, "When they raid the whorehouse they take the good girls in too," which means that when there is a bear market everything loses value.

That will happen--it's as sure as day follows night.  And when it does investors are going to move their money elsewhere.  First to CDs and other money market securities where they will feel safe.

Eventually, a year or two later, they will begin to realize that money market returns are not going to allow them to retire so they'll begin to venture back into growth funds and other vehicles.

What is not known is if they will make the mistake of using an "advisor" or if they'll simply go directly to the funds.

I wouldn't use an advisor because I know what a joke 99% of the advisors are, but I am not typical.

Typical is my brother.  He's a no-load customer.

Typical is my friend Stephen.  He's a Schwab client.

Typical is my next door neighbor.  She runs a small advertising agency with nine employees.  She believes--actually believes--in moving her assets from firm to firm every year to eighteen months.  In her opinion she gets a lot of attention, good ideas and so forth, while she's a new customer, but then she becomes "just another client" so she moves elsewhere.  For all I know she has her own set of ACAT forms ready to be filled out at a moment's notice.

My point is this. Unless the customer's first brokerage account is with you, you took them away from somebody else.  That means your client knows that the relationship is not predestined to be a long-term one.

The other day I mentioned my old friend with the three accounts that represent a huge portion of his AUM.  One of them alone is $60 million.  What he said about them was, "There is no way I could get them or keep them if we hadn't 'grown up' together."

What that means is that the only clients you really have a solid relationship with are those who started small but are small no more.  If you were truly instrumental in that growth they'll reward you by staying with you--but if it was really their ideas, or they inherited much of their money, they're going to be as fickle as the wind.

If you expect to keep your book through the years you must be able to persude yourself that you are in fact bringing something to the table other than a report at the end of the year regarding their gains and losses--and, of course, looking great in your country club casual wardrobe.

If you educate your clients they'll feel more comfortable leaving you, and if you don't educate them they'll conclude you're not very bright yourself.

There's a Sophie's Choice for your Thursday pondering.

Do you have anything other than your ridiculous opinions and a few little anecdotal fables or is this just more of your whimsical mental vomit Putsy?