Jones To Decrease Payout to Financial Advisors
In response the pending litigation on overtime abuses Edward Jones has had to revamp their compensation policies. Word is that the 40% is going to 30%! Any Word?
Seriously, where do you get your info? The proverbial Cracker Jack box?
I called Weddle and he said 28% for you Spiff.
I called a 20 year vet on the cut in commish…rumor has it…
Mr. Spiff,
On Wednesday the hammer is supposed to drop...Check your broadcast schedule, it should say it's a unrecordable broadcast. What I heard was you won't have to pay for your stamps and phone bill anymore. You will also not be charged for the errors you make. There will be a grid system that will be based on Gross Production what payout level you will be at.The good old grid system, huh??? Sounds like Wachovia…
[quote=noggin]The good old grid system, huh??? Sounds like Wachovia…[/quote]
Wachovia Doesnt have a Grid…
I would send out 10K post cards a month if that were the case
no way they do a grid. this will be about expenses (overtime lawsuit etc)
Just a little FYI…LPL raised our payouts…based on production
We should all leave and go to LPL if they go grid..
Miss JI would open my arms and my heart to you Miss Jones…
Aww… That is sweet… I think it would be a good working enviroment… Jones and Spears all over again… Just kidding… But thanks… Love you too.
I left seven months ago to LPL–Leave now before they send out new contracts for all of you to sign.
So…lets say this rumor is true. 30% payout and they pickup the tab on some of the expenses. It just shows me the payouts are over hyped from Jones. If you do the freakin math, you only get around 28%. Can we all say this out loud…28%, 28%, 28%…louder now 28%…28%…You think the P/L sucked…wait now…28%…I bet its Revenue neutral to the…who…GP’s. What a wonderful, wonderful company. I wish I were you…Make it a great day.
[quote=Spaceman Spiff]Seriously, where do you get your info? The proverbial Cracker Jack box?
[/quote] Sounds like you will know tommorow! Keep up the hard work!I don’t want to alarm any of you Jones people, but rumor has it that starting on Dec 3rd, whenever your area GP comes into the room, you must stand at attention and salute, or if at a large gathering, bend over and kiss the ring and sing…“hail to the GP”…“hail to the exhaulted one”…Does anyone know where spiffy can buy a cracker jack box??
So I take it the cease-fire has been once again broken…
Seriously, such a move would come as no surprise to me as it makes good business sense to use a carrot & stick approach to raise production and thus profitability. Of course the GP's are interested in raising profitability. I don't know too many business owners that aren't. You may think they're SOB's for wanting more money, but in that regard, they're very little different from you and me. Anger at hypocrisy I understand, but you're stating the obvious when you say that the GPs are first for the GPs.I will be civil on the truce thread. I’m trying to promote the obvious. If you’re making an average living at Jones, why not do yourself and your family a favor and go Indy. Do the same work, and make 2.5 times the money. Yes, the GP’s are for themselves, I would be to and I AM.
I think Spiffy, Maxstud and Miss Jones would make great Indy Financial Advisor's. I'm promoting the world of Independence at the expense of the GP's. The cut in payout would be all good if they would pony up for the toilet paper.BSpears–getting the GP’s to roll out TP on EJ would be OK if the FA would take a cut in pay!
Sorry I had to do it!All kidding aside, I doubt management is so dumb that they would cut payouts. I just don’t think they will be that short sighted and or stupid. It would be right up there with the Wall Street Journal ad. (FYI Spiffy actually penned that little article)
You would think so–but in the last year they have raised minimums from 14k a month to 18k a month–going to fee based in the next year (Not because it is in the client’s best interest but because they are looking for a way to be paid to issue money out to the baby boomers – their words). Next will be a consolidation of offices in cities and towns. Not all of these are bad–but cutting commissions to 30% from 40%–stop paying the LPL recruiters 10k for each one–they will be contacting LPL directly themselves.
…and I was hoping they were going to tell us that the overtime lawsuits had forced them to begin paying us some sort of minimum salary!
DANG IT![quote=Borker Boy]…and I was hoping they were going to tell us that the overtime lawsuits had forced them to begin paying us some sort of minimum salary!
DANG IT![/quote] Speaking of that has anyone heard when or even IF those will be paid out? It was big talk but I haven't heard anything about it, nor has it been published. I was back home over the holiday and ran into the local Jones guy or should I say ex-Jones guy. He switched to LPL 6 months ago and has never been happier. Says he wished he did it 5 years ago. He made it sound like Jones is in a tailspin....is it really that bad?Well…the Jones guys would answer the tailspin question, but they can’t get Jim away from the mirror…
Hill -"Jim, get the hell away from the mirror and get over here. We need for you to come up with some bullshit positive spin to the cutbacks" Jim -"Don't bother me now, I just put some new mouse in my hair, and it won't stay in control. Can we just push the old Irish guy..whats his name.....and have him talk about how good George Putnam Fund is...and how great our partners are... Hill- "He won't sober up...so its up to you Jimmy boy. Its why you get the big bucks. Now don't "F" it up or I'll shoot your ass full of holes. The company depends on it." Jim-"Okay..Okay..can I get a shirley temple before I go on air?" "You know all the Reps just love me"Seems that Jones GP’s have been having it both ways (benefits of employees and making them pay expenses/mistakes) and can’t continue the stream of income under their current structure. SSB did the same, and made the less producing brokers pay the brunt of the cost. I would expect the same from Jones.
If they don't change someone will sue again for overtime and win. And that's got to frustrate them big time. But they'll just take it from the troops on the frontline and keep the kumbayah rollin. Spiff...hearing anything from the inside?[quote=bspears]Well…the Jones guys would answer the tailspin question, but they can’t get Jim away from the mirror…
Hill -"Jim, get the hell away from the mirror and get over here. We need for you to come up with some bullshit positive spin to the cutbacks" Jim -"Don't bother me now, I just put some new mouse in my hair, and it won't stay in control. Can we just push the old Irish guy..whats his name.....and have him talk about how good George Putnam Fund is...and how great our partners are... Hill- "He won't sober up...so its up to you Jimmy boy. Its why you get the big bucks. Now don't "F" it up or I'll shoot your ass full of holes. The company depends on it." Jim-"Okay..Okay..can I get a shirley temple before I go on air?" "You know all the Reps just love me"[/quote] Dude, you are strange.Not strange…but funny, very funny. Not sure how long you’ve been with Jones, but all I ever remember of Fess S is his George Putnam fund spew…all the time. He’s a pretty funny guy, but not sure I’d have him manage a CD ladder.
I don’t think there is a timeframe or a dollar amount per FA on the overtime settlement yet. At least nothing that has hit our system.
Jones is not in a tailspin. There have been several lawsuits that have been settled recently, but that money came out of a fund set up specifically for that purpose. While it probably did affect the bottom line to some extent, it did not put the company into a tailspin. The former FA you spoke with is just plain incorrect. I don't just say that as a kool aid drinker, but with some facts to back it up. If a company starts struggling they start to look at options to save money. Jones doesn't do layoffs, but they will do home office hiring freezes. That's not happening. They would look at cutting benefits like profit sharing. That's not happening either. LP and GP returns would be going down or they would only be receiving the guaranteed minimum. I'm sure GP earnings were something above 70%, that's just a pure guess. LP earnings were something like 25% when I got the 3rd quarter LP letter. They would stop spending money on trips. Yes, they changed the qualifications, but not enough to matter to many people. From a profit standpoint net revenues were up 20% year over year at the end of the third quarter and net income before unusual items was up 49%. If you folks want to call that a tailspin, so be it.[quote=footsoldier]Seems that Jones GP’s have been having it both ways (benefits of employees and making them pay expenses/mistakes) and can’t continue the stream of income under their current structure. SSB did the same, and made the less producing brokers pay the brunt of the cost. I would expect the same from Jones.
If they don't change someone will sue again for overtime and win. And that's got to frustrate them big time. But they'll just take it from the troops on the frontline and keep the kumbayah rollin. Spiff...hearing anything from the inside?[/quote] Lower producing brokers will always pay the brunt of the cost. That's why they don't get profitability bonuses. I've also heard it said, on this board, that GPs like those brokers who are profitable, but not bonusable. That way they get max $$ coming into the firm, but nothing leaving. Not a bad gig. If you factor in profitability bonuses, larger producing FAs get a higher payout than lower producing FAs. I believe they are going to have to make changes regarding the overtime issues. Maybe they will stop making me pay for postage and the phone. Who knows. That's all nickel and dime stuff in the big picture. Cutting payout to 30% without some sort of corresponding boost from somewhere else would be catastropic to Jones. Way more stupid than the WSJ article (that I had nothing to do with). I told my BOA today that if they announce that they are going to reduce my income by 25% I'll be either heading back to the home office or going indy. We'll have to see what happens. Hey spears, want to share rent?Spiff,
Just curious what changes were made to the trip qualifications? Was it an extra category or just gross production? It used to be $107,500 every 6 month trip, what is it now?Spaceman,
the truce is still on, but it is hard for anyone who works there to see the situation objectively. It might be a recoverable tail spin, but to force a paycut on the company's "only profit center" is a logical move of a company that is in trouble. Look at the financial sector as a whole. I wouldn't doubt it if there are a few more consolidation mergers in the near future.So you are saying if you make a mistake at EJ you dont pay for it now?
[quote=Spaceman Spiff][quote=footsoldier]Seems that Jones GP’s have been having it both ways (benefits of employees and making them pay expenses/mistakes) and can’t continue the stream of income under their current structure. SSB did the same, and made the less producing brokers pay the brunt of the cost. I would expect the same from Jones.
If they don't change someone will sue again for overtime and win. And that's got to frustrate them big time. But they'll just take it from the troops on the frontline and keep the kumbayah rollin. Spiff...hearing anything from the inside?[/quote] Lower producing brokers will always pay the brunt of the cost. That's why they don't get profitability bonuses. I've also heard it said, on this board, that GPs like those brokers who are profitable, but not bonusable. That way they get max $$ coming into the firm, but nothing leaving. Not a bad gig. If you factor in profitability bonuses, larger producing FAs get a higher payout than lower producing FAs. I believe they are going to have to make changes regarding the overtime issues. Maybe they will stop making me pay for postage and the phone. Who knows. That's all nickel and dime stuff in the big picture. Cutting payout to 30% without some sort of corresponding boost from somewhere else would be catastropic to Jones. Way more stupid than the WSJ article (that I had nothing to do with). I told my BOA today that if they announce that they are going to reduce my income by 25% I'll be either heading back to the home office or going indy. We'll have to see what happens. Hey spears, want to share rent?[/quote]You would room with sourpuss spears?
They are going to drive out the 10 yr. guy doing 250k. This person should already be considering independent.
My bet is 300k and up differnce is nominal.[quote=advisor28]Spiff,
Just curious what changes were made to the trip qualifications? Was it an extra category or just gross production? It used to be $107,500 every 6 month trip, what is it now?[/quote] It is now 108,000 but you have to be averaging at least 18K to sign up for the trip. That is the yellow line now if you are out past 4 years. Hope that helps.Spiff, if Miss Jones doesn’t take the rent offer, then sure…no problem. I’m not a sourpuss, just love to have a little fun every now and then. Just like the couple who transferred 360k yesterday…“Jones is a joke”…with the referrence to the turnover in my old office. Their words…not mine.(this time)
I do have some caution criticizing the rumored pay cut. So far LPL has done a lot of good things, but who knows if someone comes in and buys them out. Things can change on a dime in this industry...look at E-trade. Also, LPL still has backoffice problems. Long wait times, things slipping through the crack. Nothing my client sees, but something I'm definately aware of. So maybe today Weddle announces a 25% pay raise and not a cut.Yes, Fes is one of the funniest guys I have met. I would assume he was more put together in front of clients. He built a pretty big business.Not strange…but funny, very funny. Not sure how long you’ve been with Jones, but all I ever remember of Fess S is his George Putnam fund spew…all the time. He’s a pretty funny guy, but not sure I’d have him manage a CD ladder.
Wrong again. No change in commisions.In response the pending litigation on overtime abuses Edward Jones has had to revamp their compensation policies. Word is that the 40% is going to 30%! Any Word?
I know you guys had high hopes for bad news coming out of the home office, but it was...get this...GOOD NEWS!!
One correction, five states will have different plans because of state laws, California being one of them. So maybe spike is partially correct.
Dang. I was hoping to recruit from the Jones camp. Dang the bad luck. Oh well, back to normal.
Just talked to an IR who said a grid is coming. Elimination of the 1% national advertising also, and the broadcasts today are telling them to go a website to see how they will be affected.
He's in CA and expects some changes according to the memo he read. Sounds reasonable that the line of employee/independent rep are becoming more clear for Jones. You can't have it both ways, so those that say nothings happening or only good news should be careful. It sounds more ominous.California, north and south dakota, montana, and new hampshire will be different. No grid for me.
No real significant changes. No grid for most advisors. Same payout. No more 1% National Advertising expense. No more local phone bill cost. JOnes will pay for basic office supplies if purchased through Corporate Express. Advisor now pays 100% of postage (other than statements, trade confirms, etc., which are 100% firm paid). Biggest change really is the bonus structure. St. Louis will no longer allocate overhead to P&L, so the bonus threshold goes up. Net effect is that higher producers will get larger bonuses (marginally larger), and FA’s that have a higher bonus in relationship to their gross will see their bonus go down slightly (because the St. Louis allocation used to be a function of your total gross). Net effect here; about 80% of advisors will see no material change to compensation. 10% will see more, 10% will see less. However, it could have a larger impact if you happen to be an office that does a larger proportion of mailings (i.e. seminar mailings to thousands every year), as the postage subsidy has gone away for marketing efforts. Slightly negative impact to Jones’ bottom line.
All-in-all, it's mostly a non-event for me. Not sure exactly how the grid thing effects those 5 states. They increased their expense reimbursements, so I imagine it is largely cost neutral for them.Spiked- I for one want to thank you for the fact that you got nothing right. Some of us who are at Jones like to get a truthful perspective from outside Jones. Can you at least provide that? Come clean and at least say you goofed…
Just to hear the other side if that’s possible.
Any FA's from the 5 states affected care to comment. It seems that the only commentary so far are from FA's who aren't affected YET. Slippery slopes start with minute changes. One thing I learned from my 10 years at Jones, was whatever they said, by and large, was tweaked to their benefit ALWAYS. I say let the dust settle and let's make a friendly wager Mr. Noggs and Spiff et al, that it ain't over by any stretch, and if management is posturing that only 10% are affected, the proof will be in the attrition numbers down the road. Just for the record...I am not buying Spikes argument that the firm is spiraling. When you have interchangeable parts it doesn't matter who is sitting behind the desk. They may not be growing in numbers as fast as they want, but clearly the GP's are making dough, so the big green machine moves on. But change seems to be in the wind because the A share model has flaws.[quote=footsoldier]J
Slippery slopes start with minute changes.........They may not be growing in numbers as fast as they want, but clearly the GP's are making dough, so the big green machine moves on. But change seems to be in the wind because the A share model has flaws.[/quote]
You know how to boil a frog, right?
[quote=Broker24]No real significant changes. No grid for most advisors. Same payout. No more 1% National Advertising expense. No more local phone bill cost. JOnes will pay for basic office supplies if purchased through Corporate Express. Advisor now pays 100% of postage (other than statements, trade confirms, etc., which are 100% firm paid). Biggest change really is the bonus structure. St. Louis will no longer allocate overhead to P&L, so the bonus threshold goes up. Net effect is that higher producers will get larger bonuses (marginally larger), and FA’s that have a higher bonus in relationship to their gross will see their bonus go down slightly (because the St. Louis allocation used to be a function of your total gross). Net effect here; about 80% of advisors will see no material change to compensation. 10% will see more, 10% will see less. However, it could have a larger impact if you happen to be an office that does a larger proportion of mailings (i.e. seminar mailings to thousands every year), as the postage subsidy has gone away for marketing efforts. Slightly negative impact to Jones’ bottom line.
All-in-all, it's mostly a non-event for me. Not sure exactly how the grid thing effects those 5 states. They increased their expense reimbursements, so I imagine it is largely cost neutral for them.[/quote] If they are eliminating Overhead Allocation on the P&L are they going to continue to credit for assets and retirement fees, etc.? If so, I assume they adjusted the bonus bracket to a higher number to compensate? Are bonuses essentially going to be based on lgain now? If this is the case, this is a huge step in the right direction. That Overhead Allocation was the biggest BS charge and created disparity from one branch to another, and was something I campaigned to have eliminated a long time ago. Looks like they listened after I left. Frankly I can't imagine them going to a full-out grid like a SB and hitting so many lower producers when they are pushing for growth like they are.Mr. Spiff and Noggin,
I do believe I was correct. Jones did reduce the payout. I just didn't know the whole story and therefore I was trying to ellicit a response from the insiders on this forum. EVERYONE that I have read is leaving out a big part of the new compensation plan. The eradication of the BUSINESS EXPENSE PLAN is a huge loss to a w-2 employee. My last year at Jones I was putting $56,000 into the BEP and therefore I was not subject to AMT where the business expenses phase out. This one benefit will cost you w-2 employees a lot more than the Jones execs are leading on. I am so glad they got rid of that 1% advertising expense. That was so unfair.[quote=spikedkoolaid]Mr. Spiff and Noggin,
I do believe I was correct. Jones did reduce the payout. I just didn't know the whole story and therefore I was trying to ellicit a response from the insiders on this forum. EVERYONE that I have read is leaving out a big part of the new compensation plan. The eradication of the BUSINESS EXPENSE PLAN is a huge loss to a w-2 employee. My last year at Jones I was putting $56,000 into the BEP and therefore I was not subject to AMT where the business expenses phase out. This one benefit will cost you w-2 employees a lot more than the Jones execs are leading on. I am so glad they got rid of that 1% advertising expense. That was so unfair. [/quote] They didn't eliminate the BEP. At all. In fact, there are some items that they have ADDED to the plan. They eliminated it for those 5 states, but that's because Jones is now required to reimburse all those expenses (thus no need for a BEP). Not sure where you got your info.I think Spiked speaks as someone from one of the five affected states and I have a hard time believing that Jones will reimburse ALL amounts that were previously in the BEP, particularly in the case of someone like Spiked who was maxing it out to the tune of $56K/year. My guess is that more likely, expenses will be reimbursed within prearranged spending limits…probably less than $56K/year.
Then again, that's just a guess. Anyone from one of the five states have any number limitations for reimbursed business expenses going forward?Think about it Spiff. You are an employee and they were making you (and me for many years) pay for brand advertising. What about mistakes? Who should pay those? When I was with Jones, I remember a conversation with a GP who commented either the rep or the client pays. Jones would be kind enough to spread the cost over several months (earning interest I might add).
BTW. At SSB they have changed their policy recently and the firm pays for mistakes. What say you Mr. Spiff...This is all great reading , but what about the toilet paper. Is Weddle going to pay for toilet paper in Spiffy’s office?
No TP from the GP’s
I would leave then…
Then I quit. I must go through at least two rolls of TP a month, and at $0.56 a roll, that adds up.No TP from the GP’s
Nah, I'm next to a Subway. I just go use their bathroom. Saves me on water and on TP.
foot - I've always agreed with you on the brand advertising cost. I'm glad it's going away. As far as errors, how much money do you think the average FA spends on errors annually? It can't be that much. Too many incorrect trades would either A) throw up a red flag to the HO and get that FA in hot water or B) really piss me off enough to make sure the trades I place are good. If it truly is a mistake on my part, I'd expect to pay it myself. If Jones screws something up, then I would expect them to pay for it. What's the problem with that scenario?It’s covered if ordered through Corp. Express. Well, reimbursed and that is fine by me.
I LOVE JONES!!!![quote=Indyone]I think Spiked speaks as someone from one of the five affected states and I have a hard time believing that Jones will reimburse ALL amounts that were previously in the BEP, particularly in the case of someone like Spiked who was maxing it out to the tune of $56K/year. My guess is that more likely, expenses will be reimbursed within prearranged spending limits…probably less than $56K/year.
Then again, that's just a guess. Anyone from one of the five states have any number limitations for reimbursed business expenses going forward?[/quote] They are paying for "ordinary and neccesary expenses" (i.e. office supplies, postage, phone, etc.). I assume the $56K Spiked spent was largely due to marketing efforts (seminars, mailings, etc.). Keep in mind, those 5 states now have a grid, but they also added an additional bonus program for them, so fairly revenue/cost neutral. I think everyone has to accept that the whole plan was virtually neutral for most people. I know it was great fodder for all of you Jones bashers, but I would be the first to raise @#$% if they cut my compensation. After reviewing the thing in detail, it just doesn't affect me very much. I do a fair amount of mailings, so the postage thing was a bummer, but it will cost me less than $1,000 extra this year, which is more than offset by them paying for local phone and taking away the national ad expense. I might actually benefit a little bit.Yea- I just asked my BOA to order 6 rolls of postage so we can stock up half off…
Miss JSpiff-
Do you know many business models that hold employees personally accountable for errors? I don't. Ask yourself is SSB has changed their policy in CA (and probably the other 5 states) because of the employee/independent rules, how long before Jones has to. It shouldn't matter how many mistakes are made. There are very few reps at Jones who haven't paid for something along the way.I'm not sure why this is a big deal to you. Because SSB changed their policy doesn't mean that Jones is going to follow suit. Maybe they will have to in order to stay compliant with state laws. I don't know. Not my job.
How much did your errors cost you this year? I've had to pay $422 in errors. I can't even tell you when they were or what they were for. It was so insignificant to my cash flow that it doesn't matter. I think it's a legit charge to my paycheck. If I screw something up I believe I should have to pay for it. But, maybe you have a different idea of right and wrong than I do. BTW, when SSB was gracious enough to start picking up the tab for errors and some other things, they also cut payout on the first $5000 gross to 20% for anyone under $125K gross for the year. I didn't hear a single word about that on this board. Why is it such a big deal that Jones isn't picking up that tab? If you're the new guy at $100K gross which do you think you would prefer, the extra gross or your company to pay for the few errors you make?Who gets the money when an error results in a profit?
[quote=Philo Kvetch]Who gets the money when an error results in a profit?[/quote]
The orphans at Boys Town, Father Mahoney does wonderful work.
[quote=Philo Kvetch]Who gets the money when an error results in a profit?[/quote]
THE GREEDY BASTARD GPS GET THE MONEY, ALL THE MONEY BAA HAA HAA HA!!!
[quote=Philo Kvetch]Who gets the money when an error results in a profit?[/quote]
I believe the money goes to the “Elect Ron Paul” committee.
[quote=Philo Kvetch]Who gets the money when an error results in a profit?[/quote]
Its used to pay off JD Powers for favorable surveys.
Now that was funny. I rock.
Absent the sophomoric nonsense, wouldn’t it make sense for firms to use the funds to offset the losses?
Spiff-
Why is it you have such a hard time understanding the issue? Its not about you dude, its the premise that any employee could have their pay dinged because of an error no matter who is responsible and no matter how much it cost. When I was with Jones I had two unfortunate errors one specifically that I recall cost me almost $1000. My position was that the Jones system caused it and management agreed, but still I paid because in their eyes I should have know about the glich. As I recall it had to do with an order being canceled because assets were in type 2 and I placed the order in type 1 and I wasn't notified of the cancellation (it was a fund liquidation , had it been a stock I would have been notified) . And I had no one who supposedly was my manager overseeing it, so I paid to make the client whole. Spiff, tell me of a company, any company, that could get away with deducting business losses on their employees paychecks. Now if I were an owner, this argument would be moot. And if it was a small issue don't you think the firm would just absorb it. It just hasn't happened to you YET.I think SSB’s new payout structure eliminated the haircut on the first 5k with payout around 42%, they just increased these about 3 weeks ago. Not sure when it kicks in. And all big firms pick up or share in errors.
The class action suits established that the firms CANNOT charge FA's for errors. Any firm that does is taking their chances.
SB eliminated the haircut on the first $5000 effective Jan 1, 2008. Payouts for the better producers went up, payouts went down for those doing less than $300k. SB pays all errors, registration fees, Fedex, etc, etc.[quote=Philo Kvetch]Who gets the money when an error results in a profit?[/quote]
It is standard practice on Wall Street that the house gets the profits on errors. You pretty much have to do it that way because otherwise you create an incentive for an FA to carry an error hoping for it to trade up to a profit. That almost never happens, and creates the potential for all kinds of problems.
[quote=Philo Kvetch]Absent the sophomoric nonsense, wouldn’t it make sense for firms to use the funds to offset the losses?[/quote]
Absent you lack of intelligence, see joes answer.
[quote=footsoldier]Spiff-
Why is it you have such a hard time understanding the issue? Its not about you dude, its the premise that any employee could have their pay dinged because of an error no matter who is responsible and no matter how much it cost. When I was with Jones I had two unfortunate errors one specifically that I recall cost me almost $1000. My position was that the Jones system caused it and management agreed, but still I paid because in their eyes I should have know about the glich. As I recall it had to do with an order being canceled because assets were in type 2 and I placed the order in type 1 and I wasn't notified of the cancellation (it was a fund liquidation , had it been a stock I would have been notified) . And I had no one who supposedly was my manager overseeing it, so I paid to make the client whole. Spiff, tell me of a company, any company, that could get away with deducting business losses on their employees paychecks. Now if I were an owner, this argument would be moot. And if it was a small issue don't you think the firm would just absorb it. It just hasn't happened to you YET. [/quote]Any company that has sales people with the authority to directly lose money for the company. Seriously foot did you just fall off the turnip truck? Your naivety is laughable. You and CIB should get together and try to figure out real life.
[quote=Maxstud]
[quote=Philo Kvetch]Absent the sophomoric nonsense, wouldn’t it make sense for firms to use the funds to offset the losses?[/quote]Absent you lack of intelligence, see joes answer. [/quote]
Absent your lack of understanding of how your own firm does things, Jones claims that they donate the monies to local St Louis charities.
[quote=joedabrkr]
[quote=Philo Kvetch]Who gets the money when an error results in a profit?[/quote]It is standard practice on Wall Street that the house gets the profits on errors. You pretty much have to do it that way because otherwise you create an incentive for an FA to carry an error hoping for it to trade up to a profit. That almost never happens, and creates the potential for all kinds of problems.[/quote]
Joe, your reasoning is flawed here.
If I had said, “Why not let the broker keep the money if an error leads to a profit?”, you would have been correct. What I had asked though, is why not let the profits under these circumstances go towards offsetting the losses? This does not incent the broker to do anything either way.
It happens more frequently than you might imagine, Joe.
[quote=Philo Kvetch] [quote=Maxstud]
[quote=Philo Kvetch]Absent the sophomoric nonsense, wouldn’t it make sense for firms to use the funds to offset the losses?[/quote]Absent you lack of intelligence, see joes answer. [/quote]
Absent your lack of understanding of how your own firm does things, Jones claims that they donate the monies to local St Louis charities.[/quote]
If you already knew the answer why did you asked the question?
It was intended to stimulate thought. It was directed at those who are capable of thinking Max, and as such has nothing to do with you.
Why don’t you just quit while you still not too far behind?
Far behind what? Is this some sort of competition?
Wow…do a little work for 1/2 day and look at all I missed. Its wonderful to see Spiff and Max so happy and full of themselves. Makes you feel good when for a day or so you thought your lovely firm was going to screw you again. In retrospect, I would feel the same. Enjoy!!
Max-
Someone signs off on everything you do. Jones has to change their policy on losses/errors or they'll be writing more large checks to lawyers. It would be interesting to see a mountain chart over the last 10 years of Jones legal costs. I bet it oupaced the market by tenfold![quote=Philo Kvetch] [quote=joedabrkr]
[quote=Philo Kvetch]Who gets the money when an error results in a profit?[/quote]It is standard practice on Wall Street that the house gets the profits on errors. You pretty much have to do it that way because otherwise you create an incentive for an FA to carry an error hoping for it to trade up to a profit. That almost never happens, and creates the potential for all kinds of problems.[/quote]
Joe, your reasoning is flawed here.
If I had said, “Why not let the broker keep the money if an error leads to a profit?”, you would have been correct. What I had asked though, is why not let the profits under these circumstances go towards offsetting the losses? This does not incent the broker to do anything either way.
It happens more frequently than you might imagine, Joe.[/quote]
PK if you allow dollar for dollar offset of losses on a per-broker basis, it can still create a ‘moral hazard’. Consider this example: Joe Broker reports an error for a loss of 1000 on Jan 2. On Jan 15 a client DK’s a trade for the purchase of ABC stock, and the security is flat at the moment but the market, in Joe’s view, is strong. If he is staring at a $1000 loss against his next paycheck and he actually thinks ABC is going to go up, he has a pretty strong incentive to take his sweet time reporting the DK and busting the trade.
Perhaps if you allowed for offsets on an aggregate basis(say at the branch level for an organization with multi-advisor branches, allowing offsets could work without creating the potential for trouble. Either way, you have to be careful that you don’t create an environment where a broker is tempted to “trade with someone else’s money”…effectively that is what they are doing by not promptly reporting an error. They are either trading with the firm’s capital or the client’s capital in that situation.
[QUOTE]
Joe, your reasoning is flawed here.
If I had said, "Why not let the broker keep the money if an error leads to a profit?", you would have been correct. What I had asked though, is why not let the profits under these circumstances go towards offsetting the losses? This does not incent the broker to do anything either way.
It happens more frequently than you might imagine, Joe.[/quote]
Joe, I'd have to imagine that if PK's proposal were implemented, there would not be a situation where a person was about to lose $1000 from their paycheck.
Remember, the profits would go toward offsetting the losses, so the brokers wouldn't be responsible for their errors.[quote=footsoldier] Max-
Someone signs off on everything you do. Jones has to change their policy on losses/errors or they’ll be writing more large checks to lawyers.
It would be interesting to see a mountain chart over the last 10 years of Jones legal costs. I bet it oupaced the market by tenfold![/quote]
Probably no worse than any other financial services firm.
[quote=Spaceman Spiff). I told my BOA today that if they announce that they are going to reduce my income by 25% I’ll be either heading back to the home office or going indy. We’ll have to see what happens. Hey spears, want to share rent?[/quote]
Spiff......is that a fall back plan?Yes.
Good thing I didn't have to make either one of those stupid decisions.I wondered what was going on at Jones this week. I got four EDJ brokers call me and tell me how wonderful life is at Jones. Funny thing is that I have been gone for 8 years now and really couldn't care less. Here is a thought, if you keep telling yourself you married the right girl after 16 years of marriage, something really is wrong! Happily employed by the guy in the mirror for four years now. Indy EDJWow…do a little work for 1/2 day and look at all I missed. Its wonderful to see Spiff and Max so happy and full of themselves. Makes you feel good when for a day or so you thought your lovely firm was going to screw you again. In retrospect, I would feel the same. Enjoy!!
Amen...
I think California FAs really need to work the numbers on the new grid. It just doesn’t add up up unless you’re already Seg 5.
Jones should just sell the California business. Cut the losses. If they are having to rework the P&L to make California offices profitable now, how will it work when the IRFA’s start doing fee buisness. Spiff and Max seem to think fees are the holy grail, cash cow, garden of eden etc, but there is substantial cost during start up when you aren’t getting those A share commissions you are used to. Paying California rent and California BOA wages while transitioning to fees wont be fun. Just sell the whole state to LPL. Better yet sell it to Allstate or State Farm.
Jones should just sell the California business. Cut the losses. If they are having to rework the P&L to make California offices profitable now, how will it work when the IRFA’s start doing fee buisness. Spiff and Max seem to think fees are the holy grail, cash cow, garden of eden etc, but there is substantial cost during start up when you aren’t getting those A share commissions you are used to. Paying California rent and California BOA wages while transitioning to fees wont be fun. Just sell the whole state to LPL. Better yet sell it to Allstate or State Farm.
You got 'em Drone!
Life is funny… the reason California F.A.'s have to take a pay cut is due to the litigious state in which they live… so wouldn’t it be funny if the same group of Attorney’s got together for the Next Class Action suit- Unfair pay scale to California F.A.'s compared to the rest of the Nation! I can hear it now, Why Should California F.A.'s pay for something the G.P.'s set up in the first place?
[quote=footsoldier]Max-
It would be interesting to see a mountain chart over the last 10 years of Jones legal costs. I bet it oupaced the market by tenfold![/quote] I doubt that very much. I'm sure they are up because we live in a society of people looking to get rich quick but I bet they are no different than any other companyBrian I was there 15 years and believe me–the last four were more than the prior 11
I don’t see what difference it makes, it’s not as if Jones’ brokers get paid in cash. They do it for the trips and the BOA don’t they?..Oh and those really cool P&L statements that make them feel like they are in charge of their own destiny!
Why do Jones people stay at Jones? Fear (or planned ingnorance), for many. That's why they really do it. They are too afraid to even look at other firms because it sets up the conundrum, and then the Jones lies become real. The newbies you can understand because it takes a while to figure out all the lies. When faced with the "real", they have to make an ethical choice....stay with the lie, or face it and react. They are told they are the only ethical ones. Now what when they find out different? They have to be unethical to stay. Talk to ANY broker at Jones longer than 6 yrs can sell, and you will see the fear. It is prevalent. And I can't stand Eddie Jones, let me make that perfectly clear.... And I started looking because of BAD regional leaders. They probably will never figure that role out. I don't like EDJ because they lead good people down a path of lies. Only way to know if what I am saying is true is investigate for yourself. Go visit another firm. You'll see..... or are you scared???
Why do Jones people stay at Jones? Fear (or planned ingnorance), for many. That’s why they really do it. They are too afraid to even look at other firms because it sets up the conundrum, and then the Jones lies become real. The newbies you can understand because it takes a while to figure out all the lies. When faced with the “real”, they have to make an ethical choice…stay with the lie, or face it and react. They are told they are the only ethical ones. Now what when they find out different? They have to be unethical to stay. Talk to ANY broker at Jones longer than 6 yrs can sell, and you will see the fear. It is prevalent. And I can’t stand Eddie Jones, let me make that perfectly clear… And I started looking because of BAD regional leaders. They probably will never figure that role out. I don’t like EDJ because they lead good people down a path of lies. Only way to know if what I am saying is true is investigate for yourself. Go visit another firm. You’ll see… or are you scared???
Go get 'em D-Money!
[quote=donatello]
Why do Jones people stay at Jones? Fear (or planned ingnorance), for many. That's why they really do it. They are too afraid to even look at other firms because it sets up the conundrum, and then the Jones lies become real. The newbies you can understand because it takes a while to figure out all the lies. When faced with the "real", they have to make an ethical choice....stay with the lie, or face it and react. They are told they are the only ethical ones. Now what when they find out different? They have to be unethical to stay. Talk to ANY broker at Jones longer than 6 yrs can sell, and you will see the fear. It is prevalent. And I can't stand Eddie Jones, let me make that perfectly clear.... And I started looking because of BAD regional leaders. They probably will never figure that role out. I don't like EDJ because they lead good people down a path of lies. Only way to know if what I am saying is true is investigate for yourself. Go visit another firm. You'll see..... or are you scared???
[/quote] Jones people stay at Jones because they like it. The ones that don't, leave. They go to another brokerage firm, they go indy, they switch careers. Just like you did. So, now you think that you are more ethical because your B/D is LPL or RJ? Would you be more ethical if you were at, say, Merrill Lynch or UBS? C'mon, that's weak and you know it. I'm one of those guys that has been at Jones more than 6 years. I'm still waiting to be lied to. I don't live with fear. When I think about those guys in my region that are out more than your magical 6 years, I don't see fear. I see contentment. They're a lot like me. I enjoy coming to my office, calling my clients and prospects, and helping them reach their goals. I know that I'm not going to attract everyone. I know that I'm probably not going to get a lot of $5 mil clients. Yet. I also know that for every $5 million account, there are 100 $100,000 accounts. I know that there are good and bad brokers in every firm. I do my best to not be considered one of the bad ones. I've had two RLs in my time. One is a nice guy, but not the guy I'd send my parents to if I left the biz. The other, and current, guy is great. Runs a great biz that he started from scratch. Works harder than anyone else in the region. I know three other RLs personally. All of them are stand up guys who are the model of how an office should be run. I think Jones does have that role figured out. Are there bad RLs out there? Yep. Evidently you had one. Does that mean the firm lies to us? No. Maybe I'm just naive and I've had too much of the kool-aid, but will you expound for me on this path of lies I'm being led down? I'd hate to get led astray.Spacey-Have you ever put any thought into the pyramid scheme Jones is running? Bottom feeds the top. It is one of the most successful in the nation as far a “schemes” go. How many newbies that became financial ruins did the GP call you about and express deep sorrow over his passing. You know lots of GP’s, right? You were a home office guy.
Spacey, you've been lied to many times over, but just don't want to admit it. How about running your own business? The most basic one out there. Free trips? And you don't hate to get led astray....right now it is the necessary course for you until you get bigger. If you'll notice above, I did not put myself as more ethical than you....it's usually the other way around. I think you are probably very ethical, as am I. And most RL's are running little fifedoms....the home office is trying to deal with that and has been for a very long time. It's not a secret.Donatello:
Every brokerage firm runs the "bottom feeds the top" model. When I was at Pru, we loved it when a broker died and left the business, so much more assets for the rest of us. There are many brokers that I am aware of that have entire books made up of assets of dead brokers. It happens at every firm that I am aware of. As for why they stay at Jones, I stayed for 16 years and enjoyed my life there. It was only when I saw the course that Jones was taking on fees and managed money under the leadership of Doug Hill that I packed up and left. When you don't enjoy going to work in the morning is when you should pack it in. Everybody has that time. It might be 65 or it might be 35. IndyEDJIndyEDJ-not every firm runs the Amway culture with the pyramid scheme, but that’s neither here not there. I understand why people stay…but you do see very few “smart ones” anymore. We saw ten producers out of my region leave in two years. I left when Weddle opened his mouth on his first broadcast and said: “First and foremost, we are a distributor.” I wanted more…I was bored. Doug Hill was the cake (and to some degree Bachmann)…and Weddle was the icing. I saw Doug Hill beg for his job back from the attny general and then announce it to his executive committee. Now that was history being made! Then he flew off to New Orleans on the very last day of his promise to the IR’s there. What a guy!
Agreed everyone has their time. The old Jones personality test person lingers in me... the need to save them. Forgive me. It is not their time.[quote=donatello]Spacey-Have you ever put any thought into the pyramid scheme Jones is running? Bottom feeds the top. It is one of the most successful in the nation as far a “schemes” go. How many newbies that became financial ruins did the GP call you about and express deep sorrow over his passing. You know lots of GP’s, right? You were a home office guy.
Spacey, you've been lied to many times over, but just don't want to admit it. How about running your own business? The most basic one out there. Free trips? And you don't hate to get led astray....right now it is the necessary course for you until you get bigger. If you'll notice above, I did not put myself as more ethical than you....it's usually the other way around. I think you are probably very ethical, as am I. And most RL's are running little fifedoms....the home office is trying to deal with that and has been for a very long time. It's not a secret.[/quote]Donatello...it is you who are naive...EVERY major and regional firm feeds its established producers with the leavings from failed trainees(and advisors who transfer or otherwise leave the business). In many branches it's considered to be a standard perk for top producers and producing BOM's and sales managers. Like it or not that's just how things work.
Perhaps Spiffy is happy at Jones because he spent a number of years in home office before he went into the field...so he already knew the nature of the game before he went out there.
You know, I have put some thought into the “pyramid scheme” that Jones runs. And I realized quickly at what point in the pyramid I wanted to be. I started as the low man on the pyramid. A home office paper pusher. Switched jobs, got LP. Farther up the pyramid. But, I wanted more out of my life than that. So, I went to the field. A little farther up the pyramid I go. Bonuses, trips (not free if you include the taxes), etc. Just a little further. Someday I hope to see Spaceman Spiff, GP on my biz card. Close to the top of the pyramid. If you are going to live in the pyramid you have to know where the best view is and shoot for that. Or, you can go searching for different pyramids.
I do run my own business. The difference between my business and your business is the same as an Applebee's owner vs. a mom and pop restaurant. The Applebee's owner has to stick with the corporate menu. The mom and pop can sell whatever they want. Both are business owners. Each have a different set of pros and cons. RL run little fifedoms just like BOMs run their little worlds at the wirehouses. Someone has to take on that responsibility. Some think they are the master of the universe, others run a benevolent dictatorship, some (like mine) don't get a power trip on when they get the nod. You're painting all RLs with a wide brush based on your personal experience. I still don't think anyone has lied to me. When I was in the home office I used to get bonuses every trimester. Come to work, do your job, get a bonus. Kind of nice. But, the IRS took 45% off the top. Does that mean that someone lied to me about the size of my bonus? No. Did I say "I don't want the bonus because I don't want to pay the taxes"? No. You adjust your expectations for reality and move on. The same with trips. They are a bonus. They have to be taxed. Maybe you weren't able to recognize that, but it didn't take me long to make the connection. So the person out there that says Jones is lying to them about free trips didn't read the "prospectus". It CLEARLY says in every program book that we get that taxes are due. They tell you when they are taken out and they tell you about how much to expect. It's been that way for as long as I've been reading those books, which is about 8 years now. So, Jones didn't lie to you, you just didn't do your homework. I think what has happened here is that it's easier to blame Jones (or insert any other company name here) for everything negative that has happened in your brokerage career than yourself. Some other guy (like me) got an office and you didn't, so you had to start from scratch. Some guy in your region quit and you didn't get his clients, so you had to struggle a little more. You didn't read the program book and got suprised when the taxes came out, so you didn't get that $1500 and you had to work harder. I'm sure there are other things that happened that you feel Jones lied to you about. The question I'd ask you is this...did they lie to you, or did you assume you knew more than you really did?Easy Spacey-touched a nerve. You are right about a few surprises…only home office people know the ins and outs of what to do every time. They are taught by the masters… the GP’s.
Did I say what happened to me at Jones was negative?...my bad. Was I expressing blame? For what? Who said I struggled? I was stating facts, not emotions. My career was excellent and is excellent. Did I work hard? Not in the same sense you would define it---but smart. But Jones lies to all. I despise the lies. That's a fact. Not everything they tell you can be checked out unless you have an inside to the place----like you. You missed the point. I'm glad you had the smarts to get the posh office. Do I wish I was as lucky as you?---don't know...I wasn't. I built every dollar. Hopefully, because of your ingenuity, you'll be the next Weddle. That is my wish for you.It’s spelled fiefdom
I don’t see where the bottom feeds the top.
I think those of us that are profitable are feeding those offices that aren't. I am not at the very top but happy with where I am and I don't feel bad that someone else maybe works harder and does better.Hey Hulk…where have you been? Still drinking the green Kool-Aid?
[quote=donatello]Easy Spacey-touched a nerve. You are right about a few surprises…only home office people know the ins and outs of what to do every time. They are taught by the masters… the GP’s.
Did I say what happened to me at Jones was negative?...my bad. Was I expressing blame? For what? Who said I struggled? I was stating facts, not emotions. My career was excellent and is excellent. Did I work hard? Not in the same sense you would define it---but smart. But Jones lies to all. I despise the lies. That's a fact. Not everything they tell you can be checked out unless you have an inside to the place----like you. You missed the point. I'm glad you had the smarts to get the posh office. Do I wish I was as lucky as you?---don't know...I wasn't. I built every dollar. Hopefully, because of your ingenuity, you'll be the next Weddle. That is my wish for you.[/quote] Big D, I never worked in the home office. I've built my own book. Please tell me the lies I need to know about. It will be interesting to hear them. And please don't use the "you're not really a business owner" line, or the "Jones keep 60%" thing, or whatever. I know all that. I knew it all before I was hired. Yes, there have been a few little surprises. I was surprised when I found out I wouldn't have e-mail. But that has changed now (and now I realize that I don't use it very much in this job). I was surprised at how hard it is to build a book. But every person I talked to before signing on (probably 10 people) told me it would be damn near impossible to make it - but that if I did it would be well worth it. I was surprised at how this profession really, truly is a "sales" job in the early years - even though everyone told me that, and it was in big, bold print on every new-hire piece of literature they gave me. Jones is into recruiting - passionately - but less-so in my region. At first I thought it was a bit much, but after reading so much about the industry and the business, I udnerstand why we have to grow (we do it organically, other firms just buy other firms - neither right or wrong - but if you think the "newbies" that don't make it "suffer" from the merciless treatment by the Green Machine, try working for a firm that gets bought out and the bottom 25% are lopped off - again just doing it different ways). I used to think Jones was SOOOOOO different than other firms. Maybe our culture is a little different, maybe we have to control or FA's a bit more to protect the one-man office structure. But at the end of the day, we are not THAT much different than most other regional and wirehouse firms (payout, structure, product, etc.). Yes, we do not swim upstream like the big boys. But again, that is clearly stated as one of our mantras. We serve the upper middle class, and we serve them very well. I actually like that. I don't know if I want to work with the ultra-wealthy. I like serving the blue-collar guy that amassed $500K-1mm. I have larger accounts, but not many. But, most on this board don't either. I have several friends at UBS and Merrill and MS. My average account size is not much smaller than theirs - mostly due to their time in the biz (being longer than mine). The problem with many Jones guys is that they buy the doorknocking, $5K bond selling strategy hook, line, and sinker. I could not possibly make it in this business opening accounts $5K at a time. But I know that. I have done the math. It is almost impossible unless you are a machine. You need to swim upstream, even early in your career. But most guys don't get that. So, I was rather long-winded. But I am still curious what the lies are that I am living. Please enlighten me.24-You are one of the smart ones. You won’t last there, but build it big while you are there. Don’t sell Eddie too much to your clients…sell you. It moves easy.
Since this is my first and only time to blog, and I will only be on one week, I want you to know you will do well anywhere. Be picky. I didn't say YOU were living a lie....it is obvious to me from your response above that you are not. I said Eddie lies....I stand by it....and it happens to everyone who is an IRFA role. We would be proud to have you when you've built it big enough.You stand by what, exactly. What lies are you talking about? I told you I don't think I've ever been lied to and B24 said he's never been lied to, but yet you continue to assert that Jones lies to everyone and that we're all living lies. You're killing me here. I keep coming back today just to find out what kind of lies I'm being told. Please enlighten me. Open my eyes!
Eddie Lies, Part I
1. Running your own biz 2. No profit center other than IR 3. No proprietary products (added estate features, EDJ mmkt run by Federated) 4. Best research (I'm howling with laughter) 5. Free trips 6. Around since 1800's 7. IRFA does best for clients (30 year bond selling; no acat monitoring; no minimal fee managed accounts; extremely limited investment choices) 8. Good technology (GP's spent $250m so far, budgeted $500m. Vinnie Barbarino has his hands tied behind his back trying to use the keyboard and run dept. Just for comparison, another firm spent $1b two years ago, and is spending $1b this year to keep up....and they were already up!!!) 9. Probabalistic modeling vs. deterministic modeling in wealth outlook forecasting. Would love to see their answer to that. I'll call my "dot-race" friends to compare. 10. Equal Opportunity Employer-now that's truly funny. Class action is coming up. 11. Everybody has opportunity for GP if they do......... (fill in blank) Nepotism (probably spelled wrong, but too lazy to look up) 12. Freedom-will your commission be cut if you do something big brother doesn't want?---another sign of NOT YOUR OWN BIZ. It could be as simple as buying a C share for someone you intend to hold for a year with a small amount (%) of their portfolio. They cut Cshare payout 8% just this last month. 13. Have you ever been in a contest that Eddie changed the rules mid-stream? 14. Home office is there to serve you----really? really??? REALLY????? I would think about that one for a while. 14. Can you build your biz as big as you want? How many $2m producers exist in Eddie? 15. Can you have any account size your want? Think about that before you answer. AGAIN---Are you running your own biz? 16. How many of you, when you started with Eddie, were told they would listen to you--- where you want a new office to go, or that there would be NO new offices close to you, just to have that happen 6 mos later? 17. Did you know that there are more EDJ GPs in the St Louis biz journal in the top paid in the city than any other firm. Did you know that there are more GPs in the home office making well over $1m than any other firm in St Louis. Spacey knows...he's a home office guy. Of all the largest, oldest, most profitable firms in St. Louis, Eddie has more top paid management than any other firm....would be proven easily if they were public. Ask an honest GP ... if you can find one. Do you still think the pyramid scheme is not real or the same as other firms? Amway...move over. And Spacey... don't lie to me and tell me none of these are true. I would lose my respect for you. Same to you 24. Brian-don't bother to answer...go watch the third season of LOST instead. Never mind, I'm going to. Sorry so long--my pen is still flying off page at you drawing line in sand....but I'm bored with it. Again I say, you know this.Donatello…I’m no Jones fan, but many big firms tell those lies.
Re number 12, Jones has no monoply on that. Most of the wires and banks ‘level’ commissions on annuities by taking a piece off the top for the higher-paying contracts. Many other firms have cut payout on smaller comission tickets for stock and bond trades, or transactional biz in general.
Re number 14- How many 2 million producers are there at ANY firm are a percentage of the overall sales force? Those who are likely have a large team around them. It is true that it is probably harder to build a team like that at Jones, if not impossible.
RE 17-Those “highly paid employees” are “highly paid OWNERS”. Kinda like your decision to go indy to increase your payout…you make more because you are taking the risk and making the effort to have OWNERSHIP of your firm.
As for the nepotism issues…I ran into similar issues at Merrill and PaineWebber…maybe it’s worse at Jones since it is a privately held company.
Either way…I’m just saying keep some perspective and don’t let your bitterness overwhelm you. Move on and enjoy the good indy life.
Joe-I’m not indy and not bitter. but thanks for the comments. You’re a cool head.
[quote=donatello]Joe-I’m not indy and not bitter. but thanks for the comments. You’re a cool head.[/quote]
I try.
Sorry-I misunderstood, and stand corrected.
[quote=donatello]
Eddie Lies, Part I
1. Running your own biz - Like I said before, it is my biz. Just more like Applebee's rather than the little Italian place down the road. 2. No profit center other than IR - This one does bug me, but not enough to lose any sleep over. I hope that they have a lot of income streams coming in besides the 60% split with the FAs. 3. No proprietary products (added estate features, EDJ mmkt run by Federated) - I'll disagree with this one. Added estate features and the Federated MMKT don't equal proprietary products. An EDJ Growth and Income fund would be a proprietary product. 4. Best research (I'm howling with laughter) - I don't know that I've ever heard anyone say we have the best research. I think when you understand what type of research they are doing, you realize they are pretty good. With some exceptions. 5. Free trips - Again, this was you not reading the trip book. 6. Around since 1800's - Jones has stopped using this one. It was common practice back when they bought that company to use their starting date. But it didn't ring true anymore. 7. IRFA does best for clients (30 year bond selling; no acat monitoring; no minimal fee managed accounts; extremely limited investment choices) - There's not a brokerage firm out there that doesn't think they do what is best for the clients. And they think they do it better than anyone else. Do you really think the clients care about ACAT monitoring? Investments are a dime a dozen. At the end of the day (or year) it is about putting returns on the table. I don't believe you have to have a fancy set of investments to wow a client as long as you are growing his account at a rate he is pleased with. Managed accounts, fee based, structured products, options, blah blah blah. They're all tools to get you where you want to go. I've never had a client walk into my office and tell me they want a minimal fee managed account. Usually they don't know what they want or need, so they ask me for advice. 8. Good technology (GP's spent $250m so far, budgeted $500m. Vinnie Barbarino has his hands tied behind his back trying to use the keyboard and run dept. Just for comparison, another firm spent $1b two years ago, and is spending $1b this year to keep up....and they were already up!!!) - Our technology is catching up. I'll give you this one. We've made more changes in the last 12 months than in my first 10 years with the firm. It's quite refreshing. 9. Probabalistic modeling vs. deterministic modeling in wealth outlook forecasting. Would love to see their answer to that. I'll call my "dot-race" friends to compare. - I believe you are talking about Monte Carlo vs. straight compounding. If that is true, I agree with you. The SunGuard software we use has the tool, but they haven't given it to the masses yet. From what I've been told it is getting released after the first of the year. 10. Equal Opportunity Employer-now that's truly funny. Class action is coming up. - You know the demographic makeup of Jones? Funny, cause I don't have those statistics. I'd be willing to be that Jones doesn't look much different than most Midwest brokerage firms. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. 11. Everybody has opportunity for GP if they do......... (fill in blank) Nepotism (probably spelled wrong, but too lazy to look up) - Just like everyone at Firm XYZ has the opportunity to climb the corporate ladder. I'd love to be a GP, but there are just some things I won't do to get there. Maybe that means I won't ever get it. So be it. 12. Freedom-will your commission be cut if you do something big brother doesn't want?---another sign of NOT YOUR OWN BIZ. It could be as simple as buying a C share for someone you intend to hold for a year with a small amount (%) of their portfolio. They cut Cshare payout 8% just this last month. - Really? Huh, I must have missed that memo. Oh, wait, no I just checked. You're wrong. Still a 35% payout on C shares. Just like it has been for a long time. 13. Have you ever been in a contest that Eddie changed the rules mid-stream? - No. 14. Home office is there to serve you----really? really??? REALLY????? I would think about that one for a while. - As a former Home office guy, I would say yes they are. Most of them realize that they are there to serve me, but ultimately the clients. I'd rather they think about the clients than me. 14. Can you build your biz as big as you want? How many $2m producers exist in Eddie? - We've had a handful of $2 mil producers at Jones. Added a new one this year. How many $2 mil producers are there at other firms who did it on their own. When I read in RR about those mega producers they are usually part of a team. So the TEAM did $2 mil, not the individual FA. 15. Can you have any account size your want? Think about that before you answer. AGAIN---Are you running your own biz? - Yes, I can. As far as I know. I think I've heard (fourth or fifth person) of Jones not wanting to take on a very large account. But in my biz, if I want to start a $100 account or a $10 million account, I can. 16. How many of you, when you started with Eddie, were told they would listen to you--- where you want a new office to go, or that there would be NO new offices close to you, just to have that happen 6 mos later? - Um, nobody in the last probably 10 years. Those days are gone. 17. Did you know that there are more EDJ GPs in the St Louis biz journal in the top paid in the city than any other firm. Did you know that there are more GPs in the home office making well over $1m than any other firm in St Louis. Spacey knows...he's a home office guy. Of all the largest, oldest, most profitable firms in St. Louis, Eddie has more top paid management than any other firm....would be proven easily if they were public. Ask an honest GP ... if you can find one. - Good for them. They catch some heat about that article every year. Problem is that there aren't that many large companies whose headquarters are in STL. If I were Weddle and I were comparing my compensation package to say the big wigs who run ML or MS, I'd be pissed. Cause I'm missing some serious cash compared to those guys. Do you still think the pyramid scheme is not real or the same as other firms? Amway...move over. And Spacey... don't lie to me and tell me none of these are true. I would lose my respect for you. Same to you 24. Brian-don't bother to answer...go watch the third season of LOST instead. Never mind, I'm going to. Sorry so long--my pen is still flying off page at you drawing line in sand....but I'm bored with it. Again I say, you know this.[/quote] If you're not indy, then a lot of the lies you believe Jones told you are being told to you by your current firm. They just have a different spin on them. You just haven't been with them long enough to get pissed off at them and go searching for the lies. Whoever your current firm is I promise you that they are not perfect. If they tell you they are, you need to leave.[quote=donatello]
Eddie Lies, Part I
1. Running your own biz 2. No profit center other than IR 3. No proprietary products (added estate features, EDJ mmkt run by Federated) 4. Best research (I'm howling with laughter) 5. Free trips 6. Around since 1800's 7. IRFA does best for clients (30 year bond selling; no acat monitoring; no minimal fee managed accounts; extremely limited investment choices) 8. Good technology (GP's spent $250m so far, budgeted $500m. Vinnie Barbarino has his hands tied behind his back trying to use the keyboard and run dept. Just for comparison, another firm spent $1b two years ago, and is spending $1b this year to keep up....and they were already up!!!) 9. Probabalistic modeling vs. deterministic modeling in wealth outlook forecasting. Would love to see their answer to that. I'll call my "dot-race" friends to compare. 10. Equal Opportunity Employer-now that's truly funny. Class action is coming up. 11. Everybody has opportunity for GP if they do......... (fill in blank) Nepotism (probably spelled wrong, but too lazy to look up) 12. Freedom-will your commission be cut if you do something big brother doesn't want?---another sign of NOT YOUR OWN BIZ. It could be as simple as buying a C share for someone you intend to hold for a year with a small amount (%) of their portfolio. They cut Cshare payout 8% just this last month. 13. Have you ever been in a contest that Eddie changed the rules mid-stream? 14. Home office is there to serve you----really? really??? REALLY????? I would think about that one for a while. 14. Can you build your biz as big as you want? How many $2m producers exist in Eddie? 15. Can you have any account size your want? Think about that before you answer. AGAIN---Are you running your own biz? 16. How many of you, when you started with Eddie, were told they would listen to you--- where you want a new office to go, or that there would be NO new offices close to you, just to have that happen 6 mos later? 17. Did you know that there are more EDJ GPs in the St Louis biz journal in the top paid in the city than any other firm. Did you know that there are more GPs in the home office making well over $1m than any other firm in St Louis. Spacey knows...he's a home office guy. Of all the largest, oldest, most profitable firms in St. Louis, Eddie has more top paid management than any other firm....would be proven easily if they were public. Ask an honest GP ... if you can find one. Do you still think the pyramid scheme is not real or the same as other firms? Amway...move over. And Spacey... don't lie to me and tell me none of these are true. I would lose my respect for you. Same to you 24. Brian-don't bother to answer...go watch the third season of LOST instead. Never mind, I'm going to. Sorry so long--my pen is still flying off page at you drawing line in sand....but I'm bored with it. Again I say, you know this.[/quote] These are some really good points.. All but the AmWay bit.. That I totally disagree with you on.. Oh well- I STILL like my kool-aid stand. Miss JYep
donatello,
Jones stock research not as bad as you say. Take a look:
http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20070313005309&newsLang=en
Ahead of Goldmann, ML, AGE and Ray J. (Gosh what happened to RJ in '06.)
If you click ob above and doesn’t work. Cut and paste.
Cut and paste this:
http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20070313005309&newsLang=en
BPD-What a hypocrite! Now you’re not a “buy and hold” firm, but a 1 yr firm? Read on with your research…5 yr, 7 yr. Jones spent the last few years (especially '01,'02-were you around?) touting their 5 yr and 7 yr numbers because they are a “buy and hold” firm and that’s where they ranked in the top, but now they are up there for the 1 year (4th place) and you use that to let me/us know how good their research is??? (THE BIG LIE is here—flip your article when the tide changes!) That article doesn’t mean jack! IS YOUR TONGUE GREEN RIGHT NOW?
I didn't realize how goofy you really are until now, but should have known it by your "stage name". What is a BigPayDay to you anyway---in DOLLARS??? I would seriously doubt anyone would put your research against a "serious firm". If you SERIOUSLY would....all I can say is WOW, ...you are more of a rookie than I thought....and I don't mean in years. Just for the record, a "real" stock jockey (everybody has 1-2 at their firm) would never use only one research service. They would use 4-5 opinions from the best research firms out there who that is ALL they do, then look at their companies research, and then run it through a technical filter to determine the buy or the sell. Can you put in one symbol to buy the model portfolio? I can put in one trade at my firm to buy/sell/rebalance across all accounts that hold that strategy in stocks (growth, income & growth)...and do it at an institutional level---pre-retail pricing. The portfolios have large, mid and small companies in them. Show me an edj opinion on a small-cap. We're very serious about research....and the numbers are much higher than your Zacks states. I'm wasting my breath....moving on.Donatello,
As a matter of fact, we can buy our model portfolio with one symbol. We have an unit trust from VK that does this. Thought you would like to know the errors of your ways.[quote=henryhill]Donatello,
As a matter of fact, we can buy our model portfolio with one symbol. We have an unit trust from VK that does this. Thought you would like to know the errors of your ways.[/quote] So what you're saying, henry, is that if an analyst changes a stock in your recommended portfolio before the end date of the trust, the trust changes the the makeup of the portfolio to mirror your firm's list? I find that hard to believe.[quote=Philo Kvetch][quote=henryhill]Donatello,
As a matter of fact, we can buy our model portfolio with one symbol. We have an unit trust from VK that does this. Thought you would like to know the errors of your ways.[/quote] So what you're saying, henry, is that if an analyst changes a stock in your recommended portfolio before the end date of the trust, the trust changes the the makeup of the portfolio to mirror your firm's list? I find that hard to believe.[/quote] Philo- I will answer for good old Henry Hill. The beginning of the trust reflects the recommended portfolio but that certainly doesn't mean that a position gets removed because an analyst changes on them....they are set in stone in the trust. You are right Philo.What I don’t understand is why anybody would buy a 7 year unit trust for their client and charge over 4% for it claiming a model portfolio that will not be actively managed. Let me explain my position–many years ago at Jones I purchase some CET (Central Equity Trusts) which contained Lucent and Worldcom–though the CET’s did come in at the positive 7 years later–they did underperform a plain old growth and income mutual fund. So before we buy these things–are we doing what is best for us or our clients? Buy the way VK gets an annual management fee on these for sitting on their hands!
Why not buy the Model Portfolio, instead of the UIT? It would give you much more flexibility when it comes to dumping dogs like WCOM & LU?
BPD,
Not trying to bash EDJ, but... Do yourself a favor and DO NOT rely on EDJ research alone. Use other research firms, then make your own informed decision.Why not buy the Model Portfolio, instead of the UIT? It would give you much more flexibility when it comes to dumping dogs like WCOM & LU?
True, but I think there are some clients out there that like individual stocks, but cannot afford a well-diversified portfolio. This is the next best thing (UIT's in general) if a client does not want MFD's. I agree that UIT's can be tough if there is a problem with a few holdings. But really, over the course of a few years, the portfolios are generally fine. I don't think they are widely used at Jones. It's just an option. Of course, if Jones didn't offer UIT's, you would bash them for that. So, damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Also, depending on the circumstances, you can take the stocks in-kind at maturity (though recent tax changes have made this expensive in non-qualified accounts). I actually did this several years ago when I used to buy UIT's for my own account (directly through VK). It was at a time that I could not buy many individual stocks, but did not want funds. I still own many of these stocks (albeit small lots).
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