Jones #1 again?

Weep about what?

Webster-  D-E-N-I-A-L-

not seeing or understanding the truth, willingness to hang on, resistant to change..... or in simple man's terms, just not very informed.

Oh Suzie shut up already.

hey "candy" bar,

Why can't you stay on topic ....does your firm have "technology" envy along with your own "other" envy     (a little small in that department are we??? nudge nudge wink wink.... say no more!)

sorry posted the above in the wrong forum.  

"The appeal of this good-neighbor approach, which smells of hot dogs"

They said your approach smells of hot dogs....Aloha!

"Equal parts Wall Street and Main Street, Jones reps work in one-broker offices with a single assistant, offering financial guidance to mostly small-time and, in some cases, first-time investors. (According to Kiplinger's Personal Finance, Edward Jones clients have an average income of $54,000 and a net worth of $383,000."

In other words, experimental lab rats...

http://www.hawaiibusiness.cc/hb42005/default.cfm?articleid=2

I find these the criteria that is used for this article (and others)  laughable.  Please go away with this story.  It is a step up from an ad. 

Why any vet would stay at this firm just continues to amaze me.  Maybe it's the imitation wood or plastic awards that are given out in June?  I have to chuckle when I think of all the noob brokers who read this article and think what a great firm they are a part of.

The only tears I have shed have been tears of joy....from the day i have left, I've never felt better about this business and my career than I do now.

"Equal parts Wall Street and Main Street, Jones reps work in one-broker offices with a single assistant, offering financial guidance to mostly small-time and, in some cases, first-time investors. (According to Kiplinger's Personal Finance, Edward Jones clients have an average income of $54,000 and a net worth of $383,000."

Sounds like the only way you could run a book of business like that is to sell 'em all 'jes three mutual funds. Keep it super simple and sell them there funds to everyone having lunch at the Subway sandwich store next to your office.

Stan,

You are closer than you may think with your comment.

Yes Stan, you are closer than you THINK…why don’t you just run the ominous music now too, Zack. Guess what, customers like Edward Jones. I am obtaining about 15 new clients a month and guess what…they ain’t broke people sitting in Subway. That is a such a ridiculous comment, it barely merits mention. The clients I am GAINING are existing brokerage clients who are fed up with the crap they’ve been sold, and the lack of service. Hey,news flash, the Jones idea of suburban branches WORKS. No amount of misplaced ridicule will change any of that. People like us. Ex-brokers don’t. Pretty simple.

bilbo,

You are constantly cracking me up.  People LOOOOOOVE Edward Jones..... especially the ones that are in on the class action suits.

Bill you still don't get it do you ?????  These new clients don't care a rats backside about your preciousss Edward Jonesss, believe it or not they are interested about Bill Fakkland.

"Guess what, customers like Edward Jones. I am obtaining about 15 new clients a month and guess what...they ain't broke people sitting in Subway."

They're not living the high life either. Or, more accurately, the odds aren't as good that they are as say, people eating lunch at a private golf club. Then again, that crowd's not Jones' demographic.

"The clients I am GAINING are existing brokerage clients who are fed up with the crap they've been sold, and the lack of service. "

I have no doubt you're picking up some clients like that. The thing I wonder, since your (well, Jones', if not your) book is filled with large numbers of small accounts on a largely buy and hold basis, just what sort of service could they be getting?

"Hey,news flash, the Jones idea of suburban branches WORKS."

Given how frequently I see their offices open and close, I have my doubts about that. OTOH, I have no ill will towards you or any other Jones broker. In fact, when I see those offices close I feel bad for the reps involved.

Bill,

Since you are a vet, you will tend to have larger accounts.  The typcial Jones broker with 2-3 years tenure is not working with sophisticated or HNW clients.  The AUM per broker on a firm basis at Jones is among the lowest (if not the lowest) in the industry. 

It's the product mix and the culture that is force fed that lends itself to the attracting "jones client".  As your business grows--and it sounds as if you are doing well so it has--you will begin to feel limited in what you can offer and the jones culture will wear thin when you realize that you can do better for yourself and your clients elsewhere.  

I think both you and guest1 will leave one of these days.  It may be a year or two.  Something will trigger it--I can't say what or why, but I would bet that since you have been exposed to certain truths on this forum and perhaps elsewhere, that you will someday you will begin to realize that this business is about you and YOUR clients.  You will get sick of the bs and leave.

I have a feeling I might be waiting a long time for my handwritten thank you note though. 

Zacko, if I ever leave I WILL send you a green thank-you note (…if I can ever be of any service to your or your family…) AND I will even buy you a cigar at the Ritz

[quote=Guest1]Zacko, if I ever leave I WILL send you a green thank-you note (...if I can ever be of any service to your or your family....) AND I will even buy you a cigar at the Ritz[/quote]

spoken like a true gentleman guest1 !

Guest1,

AND if you decide to come to RJFS...they will pay me 2% of your first years gross as a referral fee (you will have to use my real name though as they don't know Zacko).

BTW, heard that a large office left Jones last Friday (RJFS) 180 milllion AUM if memory serves.  Somewhere in IL I think.....

Nothing like pressure to perform! Did not hear about the IL office. MPC was last week, good timing with all the partners otherwise busy…

They don't exactly advertise when a large office leaves. 

I do miss MPC...nothing like walking through the entire building getting cupholders and pens for a few hours to take the edge off.

Going to Nevis, Briish West Indies next week for an RJFS Leaders trip.  Yes, they have trips here too!  And, I still am taxed on them too.

I just talked to a friend of mine who left Jones about a year ago.  He had done a goodknight with his good friend and had naturally spent hours training him and getting him started (on his own time).  His GN friend left with him to come to RJFS.  Funny that Jones is now suing the GN and him also for training costs of 75k when it was he who provided the training to the GN without additional pay.  Quite a move by Jones considering how much time and the sacrifice a broker who takes in a goodknight must go through.  It didn't surprise me knowing Jones--but he is preparing a countersuit to my knowledge on the advice of his attorney.

20 years with the same woman, too. I have considered other offers, but there is always that pesky issue of a contract  and a promise before God and witnesses and all. Although for some people a contract is just a piece of paper. I’ll retire with Jones and golf with my first and only wife, God willing. I’m sure we’ll have enough money although  with every backswing I’ll be saying…“damn, if I had only gone Indy I would be so much happier right now.” You guys seem to equate bigger payouts and all the BS you talk about as if it brings job satisfaction or eternal happiness. It doesn’t. I like my office, I like my job, and no one bothers me. I’m not like you. Can you grasp that concept?

Bill-

I think your loyalty is great, and I am glad you are happy at EDJ.

I have just one comment.  Sometimes I hear you say things that make me feel like you are either one who accepts the status quo as "as good as it gets", or have some deeply internal belief that maximizing your income is somehow inherently wrong or means that you automatically must sacrifice your happiness.

On the other hand you could just be sick of being hassled about your firm.  I would be careful though not to subconciously equate Indy with selling your soul.

Bearcat, going indy is not selling your soul. In my book, taking a check is selling your soul! I think Bill is happy where he is at becasue money is not his God (sorry Ted Jones, you said it best). Sometimes IRs leave because of a purely financial reason. Some never realize that they have the opportunity where they are to create and be part of something bigger than themselves. (Nick Murray said that better too!)

Zacko, I did see the powers of being huddled with a IL rl on Friday..Think I know who it was. Some hurt some are best for all involved. Thanks for the compliment Joe, Sometimes I can be a gentleperson

Guest1

Read my post man!  I said it's NOT selling your soul!

For what it worth, I don’t care whether you leave and go elsewhere. I just wonder why there is this desperate complulsion to drag every other Jones IR with you as though you are saving us from the burning flames of Hell itself. From where I sit, there is no lake of fire. In fact, all I see is trees and the odd old-timer zooming by in one of little golf-cart type deals heading for the mall to have coffee. Do your job, switch jobs, switch wives, switch your car, switch your damn golf clubs iof thats what makes you happy. I don’t care. It’s still the same guy staring you in the mirror every morning and you still put your britches on one leg at a time.

Bearcat, I was agreeing with you! Taking the check is selling your soul  ! On installment even…

Hey Bill,

You're still a dying breed, and that's a transactional broker. Good or bad, and I think there's alot of conflict of interest with it. It's sure not keeping up with the industry.

I stand corrected!  Evidently my reading comprehension deteriorates markedly torward the end of the day.

Ez, I guess your signon says something about your style of business? There is room in this indutry for a lot of different styles. Why throw rocks at any particular one? I am 100% commission based (about 5mil in managed money) and I do not feel as if I am pushing transactions and neither do my clients. A lot of planning, estate and insurance work etc… You mentioned one time you are newer in the business, keep an open mind. There are a lot of “right” ways to do things

[quote=Bill Fakkland]20 years with the same woman, too. I have considered other offers, but there is always that pesky issue of a contract  and a promise before God and witnesses and all. Although for some people a contract is just a piece of paper. I'll retire with Jones and golf with my first and only wife, God willing. I'm sure we'll have enough money although  with every backswing I'll be saying..."damn, if I had only gone Indy I would be so much happier right now." You guys seem to equate bigger payouts and all the BS you talk about as if it brings job satisfaction or eternal happiness. It doesn't. I like my office, I like my job, and no one bothers me. I'm not like you. Can you grasp that concept?[/quote]

Mr Bill, and you other Jones Drones....How about HONESTY?

If Edward Jones Investments are so HONEST, WHOLESOME, AND A GREAT PLACE TO WORK,  why haven't they leveled and told the WHOLE TRUTH, to their IR'S, and what about to their IR's CLIENTS, or do they belong to the FIRM?   

Mr. Bill talks about his loyalty to the FIRM, and his one and only wife, well Mr Bill are you as Truthful to her, as your beloved FIRM is to your CLIENTS?

Just because they don't read the "WSJ" according to 3 "Mill" Bill Hill, doesn't mean they don't need full disclosure, does it ?

Just when will Edward Jones  Tell their clients the TRUTH

just do it..................................

Mr. Bill, why haven't you....................said so on here, or to you accept they have done nothing wrong at all?

Bill,

To compare a marriage to your employer is ridiculous.  For that comment alone, you deserve to stay at Jones.  You might be loyal to Jones...but if push came to shove--the returned loyalty would surely not be present.  I'd certainly hope you would have come to expect more from your wife than that.  You should be ashamed of yourself for that comment. 

I too like my job.  I like having more products and services.  I like owning my own business.  And yes, I like being paid more now too.

I think it might be time for you to again leave the forum for another month or two and go find yourself again.  You might have a few years on me Bill--but that's all you have on me.

Hey Bill,

Your "wife" is cheating on you...it's time to trade "her" in!

Bill,

True to the nature of a good Jones salesperson, you make biblical references and direct references to God a couple posts ago.  Good for you.  I think you should stay at Jones.  After all, God is on your side.  All the rest of us heathens who went to the dark side and jump ship whilly-nilly are just evil people.  Jones is the only true firm that does the right thing for its clients.  One day, as a house of cards, all these other bad people and bad firms and loosers who left Jones because they couldn't hack it will be brought down.   When you make a decision, you don't go back on your word Bill.  Not like the rest of those evil ones out there.   

Don't ever even consider leaving Bill.  You are where you belong.  In fact, I bet you'll become a GP if you are still there 10-12 years from now.  

That actually sums things up pretty well, Malcolmtent. I am where I belong. My career is actually very much like a marriage. If you don't have a long term view, you just keep jumping around at the first sign of choppy water. That's all I'm saying. I find it interesting that the 2 guys who left here last year and took a big cheque to do so had both been divorced and remarried in the last year or so before leaving. I actually believe it's a character flaw to move from firm to firm, unless there is a very compelling reason to think so. So, in summary, I don't see you as a heathen, but I do see you as being weak willed. Your opinion of me has been duly noted.As for Dr. PhilZack, thanks for the mental health tip. I'm not 40 yet, but will keep your sage advice in mind for future reference.

You should have called me Malcontent...would have been a better name and I think that was the meaning you were trying to convey  Malcolmtent makes me sound like a guy who lives in a tent.   Actually I live in a nice house, not a tent. 

Also, for Zacko you should have done a play on Wacko Jacko since he is in the news so much.  PhilZack???  Come on.  That's bad.  Were's your creativity? 

Anyway, best of luck.  There's nothing wrong with staying at EDJ if that is where you are happy.  I do look forward to more banter with you in the future.  

Bill,

You have been married 20 years plus and have yet to see 40?  So, based upon what you have told us in this thread--you got married while still in high school?

Jones is a wonderful company for those of, shall we say, limited ability.  You can be told what to do, yet still live above poverty level!  They even tell you to feel OK about yourself!

All in all, it's a place where mediocrity reigns supreme.

20 exactly, actually. I was 20, yes. Would you like my birthdate? Where I come from 20 was about right for trailer park trash like me. How about a blood sample. Excellent detective work, Zack. You are another Magnum PI in the making. As for Phule, I would guess that I live a bit over the poverty line, but stick to your own ideas if that works for you. I wonder if the little voices in your heads tell you that slamming EJ daily and ridiculing their brokers will make you feel better about your inability to be comfortable with your decisions. Jones is a good fit for a guy like me, and I plan on sticking around rather than leaving for 20 pieces of silver.

Please tell me that Fakker didn't just equate leaving Jones to Judas' betrayal of Jesus.

Now that is......something.........

Ridicule??? Nonsense!  It’s to your credit that you recognize your incapacity for higher thought. 

Christ was betrayed for 30 pieces of silver (Matthew 26:15).  I suspect that BF was alluding to that, in his own charminly illiterate way.

Interesting that you should incorrectly type the word "charmingly" before the word "illiterate". Not surprising, mind you,.

You're so right.

I've misspelled a word, and you've mistaken our Lord and Saviour for a second rate securities firm out of Missouri.

My error is far worse.

Bill,

I was just pointing out a fact.  So if you aren't forty yet and you said you have been married twenty years..and got married at 20.  You must have lied about something.  Both cannot be true....

I have come to the conclusion that you do in fact belong at Jones.  In fact, you just might be the perfect Jones broker.  Being indy isn't for everyone.

As far as religion goes....hmmm should I touch this one?  Sure why not? 

I think Jones tends to attract those that are of "greater faith"  In my view--people who become very involved with their faith tend to make good Jones brokers.  Why?  Because they can be more easily manipulated than an independent strong minded thinker would be.  And no one is more loyal than someone who believes very strongly in their faith and can be a part of a group who has similar beliefs.  One could argue that many corporate cultures facilitate this.  Jones is just better at it than most.  How else can you explain the number one ranking in RR every year?  Jones clearly is not the number one firm in the industry..but the reps rate it so?  The culture of Jones is much like a religous cult and it has often been compared to such.  Whether you are of faith or not, I don't think you can deny these observations as being accurate.

That's why someone like Bill is a perfect fit.

[quote=Jonestown]

"Equal parts Wall Street and Main Street, Jones reps work in one-broker offices with a single assistant, offering financial guidance to mostly small-time and, in some cases, first-time investors. (According to Kiplinger’s Personal Finance, Edward Jones clients have an average income of $54,000 and a net worth of $383,000."

In other words, experimental lab rats…

http://www.hawaiibusiness.cc/hb42005/default.cfm?articleid=2

Whoa! Zacko, I like a lot of what you say but, the above is way off base. Because someone is a Christian and has a strong faith they are easily manipulated?

If you recall the RR survey is the #1 firm to work for according to the Reps. So, obviously Jones Reps think so. So we are all in a cult because of a strong corporate culture? Guess IBM is a cult, surely Emerson electric is one and don't forget about MMM. these are all companies with a strong culture that employees and associates would walk through walls for.

I am a Christian and I chose Jones because of a lot of the core values of the firm match my faith. but then, a lot of firms profess those values also. I just chose one I was comfortable with. Your comments are alarming.

Guest1,

You said christian...I said faith.  You said easily manipulated.  I said more easily manipulated than another might be.  Please don't take me all the way out of context.  There is some truth to what I am saying.  I don't think you are that way guest1, but many at your firm are.

While I was that while at Jones I was exposed to prayer breakfasts and prayers at regional meetings.  Uncool in my view.  It is Jones who wants the "joiner or the herd" mentality.  Strong religious beliefs practiced in an organized fashion can be compared to many corporate cultures.  You are right.

Jones just seemed to attract and promote this more than I thought.  Maybe all corporate cultures are like this?  I'm clearly not and i do not stand alone in my view I can assure you.

You can be a good person and NOT be a christian.  There are many good people who are atheists, agnostics, hindus, etc..  In my time at Jones I observed many "born again" views, many IR's who would intertwine their religous beleifs and their blind dedication to their firm.  Ridiculous...but true.  All I am saying is that the cultish mentality that exists at Jones can be compared to that of a zealot.  Well, maybe not that extreme...but not as far off as you might otherwise think.

BTW, I have met many many dishonest people in my life who claim to be christians.  Sorry, but it's also true. 

Jones is about as close to a cult as it gets.  BF needs an intervention or a marriage counselor.  He doesn't even know he's getting $crewed by the GP's. 

Jones is a very closed society as evidenced by the lack of exposure to other fund and VA families.  Another example is all the pressure to find new recruites...for FREE.  Train new guys...for FREE.  Give away part of your book...for FREE.  The firm actually uses phrases like..."give back to the firm"...Jones GAVE me nothing...I did the work...WE took a risk...Jones always comes out ahead.

Exactly!  Good points ball roller!

Starka exposes himself as a Canuck with his “u” in savior…Zack exposes himself as a prejudiced prick for his comments about Christians…uwe is still the same idiot he always was. Last time I checked, Bush #2, Clinton, Reagan and Carter all were professing Christians. So is Warren Buffett and a few others . My intellect has nothing to do with my religious faith, and the above comments were the worst kind of bottom level thinking.

Zacko your post are right on the money!

I think the point which I cant help but chime in on is that fundamentalist Christians seem to think their way is the only way and every other faith is wrong if not bad and evil. 

This ignorant school of thought fits in perfectly at EDJ.  Close minded, uninformed, blinder-mentality.  I was very uncomfortble with it while  at EDJ.    

What would this world be though with out the nonindependent thinking worker sheep.  This is what EDJ attracts.  As for me, I want to fly with the eagles.   

Ring the bell!!! ding ding ding ding! malcolm wins the award for the lamest comment I have ever read on this forum with his “eagle” schlock crapola. Well done, you doofus. While you’re up there with the eagles, watch you don’t smack into the wall of your own stupidity.

EDJ, if memory serves, is predominantely Roman Catholic, not fundamentalist Christian.

It's true that eagle may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

I can tell where this discussion is going.

Can I get an amen?

I am not walled in at my practice Bill so I don't have to worry about that.  You're the one with walls to worry about. 

Thanks for ringing the bell for me though.   

Bill,

It's all your fault for quoting the bible.  A dedicated & loyal servant of Jones who happens to quote scripture on a forum about the brokerage industry?

My case & point.

BF or should I say DF (dumb #$%^)

I'll put my intellect up against yours any day of the week.  For some reason you're blinded by Jones, I hope you get a clue some day.

Don't you have some rookies to train...FOR FREE?  Jones will be very angry with you for using their system to post on this forum...compliance is watching.

HALLELUJAH brotha uwec

Release the Hounds of Hell… aka Devil Dogs!

[quote=Bill Fakkland]Starka exposes himself as a Canuck with his "u" in savior...Zack exposes himself as a prejudiced prick for his comments about Christians...uwe is still the same idiot he always was. Last time I checked, Bush #2, Clinton, Reagan and Carter all were professing Christians. So is Warren Buffett and a few others . My intellect has nothing to do with my religious faith, and the above comments were the worst kind of bottom level thinking.[/quote]

A Canadian?????

Clearly Bill, you have no intellect.

Do so....

I can’t believe you guys are letting Zacko get away with the comments he does. The simple fact of saying that a person of spiritual principles is more easily manipulated is absolutely insane. A better comparism would be one that may fans have towards their favorite football team, perhaps something like the Husker fans… I just don’t care for the spiritual angle being thrown in, I have never found anything done at the regionals that would make me feel that any religon or no religon is preferred…

noggin,

How long you been at EJ?

Noggin, 

Probably half the people here agree with me on that.  That's my opinion.  You share a different view and that's ok.

Bill brought up the bible...NOT ME.  In our regional...there used to be a prayer breakfast and a prayer said at the final evening awards ceremony.  That in itself is not proper business conduct.  But that's not even my point.

Many..but NOT ALL people who are of religous faith are also "joiners".  They have a strong belief in their faith as well as a need to be a part of a group who shares identical views. 

It's much more than just being a "football fan".  I am a huge football fan--but I am just as happy watching a game alone as I am with friends.  "joiners" not only would want to watch the game--they would want to watch the game with other fans.  They would also want to recruit others to love their team as they do.  They also would give of their own free time to support the team in other ways when asked.  And, no one dare disagree or voice dissention--even when they didn't like what they saw.  Look at Amway for example....many people who are involved in Amway are "born again".  Not all--but many.  Amway specifically targets churches as well due to the joiner mentality that's prevalent. 

Whether you like it or not--being at Jones and doing the things they expect of you is akin to being in a cult of sorts.  And, anyone who would rather put money in the hat on Sunday to help make the Pastor's BMW payment before they fed their own family is in a cult and is being manipulated.

Zack, the only one trying to recruit people on this forum is you. It’s almost an obsession. You have issues.

Zacko, first time for a disagreement with you -- and a big one!  I believe you're making some pretty prejudicial comments about Christians by coloring us (yes, I know you said not ALL of us) as essentially cultists and  "those that need to be a part of a group that shares identical views".  For one, why are you focusing being a part of a group w/ identical views as a faith-related thing?  This applies to all sorts of people in all sorts of ways, not just because they have a strong religious faith.  (And, by the way, you're wrong if you believe that even all Christians have "identical views" of Christianity.)

There are just as many others (liberals, conservatives, blacks, Greeks, Irish, rednecks, college alumni, etc., etc.) who may like to join clubs, socialize, etc. with others of their common backgrounds & beliefs where they do share a common bond.  That's not to say they're cultists, joiners, don't have tolerance for others, and/or don't also participate & socialize with many others of different backgrounds or beliefs.  It's just a normal part of life where there are times and circumstances where you choose to be with others sharing a common passion or belief. 

I'm a Christian and go to a church that's with other Christians where we can share our faith and continue to learn and grow in it.  For that part of my life, it would do me little good to worship in another environment.  But, my church and my faith are not my exclusive circle of friends and business associates by any means.  It doesn't make me a cultist or a "joiner".  Also, within my church and probably all others, there are many differences represented even about Christianity.  There are differences of opinion on the formality/informality of the service, the choice of music, the interpretation of the Bible, our involvement with missions, how church funds are to used, etc..  For the most part, all we do share are the basic tenants of Christianity -- and there are even some within the church that are still struggling with accepting those.  The latter are not shunned, considered "damned to hell", or whatever.  They're loved, served, and ministered to no different from the majority attending my church who have fully accepted Christ.

Zacko, you're with RJFS as an independent contractor.   As you well know, independents are people who have chosen not to be employees of broker-dealers that puts them in a more restrictive & closed environment.  They don't want or need to be part of a typical branch office structure.  They want greater freedom & flexibility and don't want to be grouped in the herd. They've chosen to go their separate way, to own their own businesses, to operate under their own business names, etc..  You're a part of our industry that is made up of people who are anything but "joiners".  For the most part they are "fiercely independent". 

Yet, being at RJFS you also know that at all the RJFS National Conferences there is also a Prayer Breakfast (like your prior Regional Meetings w/ Jones).  RJFS has chosen to provide a formal venue for those who wish to come together to share a meal with other Christians, to pray, to hear a devotional, and to sing Christian songs together with others of the same faith.  That is these RJFS reps' choice to participate or not in the breakfast.  But, that Prayer Breakfast is full to the rafters with "independents", certainly not joiners or cultists.  Most of these Prayer Breakfast attendees would do anything for you or others at RJFS to help them with their businesses, to share ideas, etc.  They don't limit their sharing to just other Christians.  The faith your RJFS peers share is just a part of their lives.  It doesn't make them any less or more of a "joiner" or "cultist" than you are.

Zacko, perhaps your prejudicial feelings have come from running across some closed-minded, intolerant Christians.  But, that's no different from running across intolerant people of any belief, race, or football team loyalty.  Some of your feelings may have also stemmed from your Jones "cult" experience, and realizing that you felt duped by them as it related to your business.  Whatever it may be or not, all I suggest is that you be more careful about prejudicially coloring elements of life you may encounter based on whatever or whomever you may have encountered in the past.  That makes you come across as closed-minded as you profess others are with whom you may find disagreement.

XEJ1984- Almost 3 years. I am studying for the CFP now.

Duke #1 - A much better post than I had written.

Zacko- I understand where you are coming from, I really do. I just didn't appreciate the tone of the diatribe. I thought the most recent post clarified your position. Thanks for all your input.

When you finish that CFP, you’re going to want to put it to use.  In other words, time to leave Jones??

So you are a CFP, Sooth?

[quote=BigPayDay]So you are a CFP, Sooth?[/quote]

Soon.

What’s your minimum account size you’ll take on?

[quote=BigPayDay]What's your minimum account size you'll take on?[/quote]

No minimums.  I treat other people the way that I would like to be treated.  If they're serious about the process, then I'm serious about helping them.  I'm embarassed by the snob appeal of the wirehouses.  It represents a disservice to the professionalism of the industry.

[quote=Soothsayer]

[quote=BigPayDay]What's your minimum account size you'll take on?[/quote]

No minimums.  I treat other people the way that I would like to be treated.  If they're serious about the process, then I'm serious about helping them.  I'm embarassed by the snob appeal of the wirehouses.  It represents a disservice to the professionalism of the industry.

[/quote]

Please spare me. We could have a roaring debate about professionalism and the indies wouldn't have clean hands. Indies, for all the good things about them have massive compliance holes and in this day and age that's a major problem. The regulators have rightfully gone after the biggest fish first and attacked some long ignored business practices at wirehouses.

The next step will be cleaning house at all the places where there's no real "business restraint" office and the big hurdle to entering the business is the price of a shingle to hang out and a local business license.

[quote=Soothsayer]When you finish that CFP, you're going to want to put it to use.  In other words, time to leave Jones??[/quote]

Shouldn’t you actually earn your CFP before you tell others, erroneously, where they can and can't "put it to use"? Come on, Sooth, you're better than that.

Stan, in all fairness I must say that I’ve found compliance to be stricter from a regulatory standpoint that when I worked at EDJ.  It is, however, easier to stay compliant, due to the fact that through my indy channel, the rules are much more clearly codified and applied in a more even-handed manner.  Further, when something new comes down the 'pike, there is an explantion with it, which does help.

Stan-

My point was that EDJ is not super keen on brokers earning their CFP.  They prefer brokers get the lightweight AAMS.  Jones knows many of the principles in the CFP training run counter to their own philosophy.  As far as all the regulators and regulation goes, I don't need to be threatened or have the threat of regulation hanging over my head to do the right thing.  My dad had many, many sayings that he repeated often as I was growing up.  Two that are appropriate in this case are, "Do the right thing when no one is looking," and "When you don't tell a lie, then you don't have to remember what you said."

[quote=Soothsayer]

Stan-

My point was that EDJ is not super keen on brokers earning their CFP.  They prefer brokers get the lightweight AAMS.  Jones knows many of the principles in the CFP training run counter to their own philosophy.  As far as all the regulators and regulation goes, I don't need to be threatened or have the threat of regulation hanging over my head to do the right thing.  My dad had many, many sayings that he repeated often as I was growing up.  Two that are appropriate in this case are, "Do the right thing when no one is looking," and "When you don't tell a lie, then you don't have to remember what you said."

[/quote]

Thanks for the insight on Jones' view of the CFP. I suppose others can chime in with their take on it.

As to honesty and running a clean business, I agree completely with your Dad. OTOH, that's not the issue.

The issue is that everyone in the business is human, and subject to human frailties. That applies to people at indies as well as any wirehouse or anything in between. You don’t have to be a fan of regulators or feel the need to be personally supervised to know there are plenty of bad apples among us.

<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 

Wirehouses deserve ALMOST every bit of flack they’ve received recently, even though there are thousands of honest, ethical people in their ranks. It boiled down to a tough review by regulators of long accepted, but less than 100% ethical business practices.

When it comes down to the unethical acts of specific reps, or of some firm practices, the problem is that in some environments there isn’t a strong system of reviews. That’s what we just saw with RJ’s flat fee account problems. I’m certainly willing to see wirehouses take their knocks, what I’m not willing to do is cede some sort of moral high ground to indies. There are plenty of rocks there that have yet to be overturned.

Wait until the SEC and others get around to looking closely into the backgrounds and histories of reps that indy B/D have been willing to take on with little to no compliance supervision. The indy ranks aren’t just full of entrepreneurs, there are plenty of guys there who simply have U-5s that are too dirty to work in any other channel.

Stan--

You're right on the mark.  Again.  I think you've said in the forum before that you expect the absolute number of brokers to shrink some in the years ahead.  Some of these regulatory issues will force the less than ethical brokers out when they have to look like they're at least trying to do the right thing.  For the guys and gals who have always done the right thing, not much will change other than the recordkeeping. 

Sooth- I am paying the cost for the CFP myself for the very reasons you mentioned. It is certainly not a substitute for hard work but it is valued at other firms more than at mine.

[quote=Webster]

Jones is #1 place to work in…

Drum Roll please…

http://www.hawaiibusiness.cc/hb42005/default.cfm?articleid=2

Jonestown Envy, read it and weep.

I’m at a loss to understand a) how this would translate into ANYTHING good for anyone on the mainland, and b) given that, why anyone outside of Hawaii would even care, let alone be envious?

Fool,



I’m at a loss why you would take the time to read my posts. But you do.



Who says I’m on the mainland?



BPD

I read your posts simply for the amusement value and nothing more.  And the humor value of your stupidity is even draining out.

Fool,

Some reading for you:

http://www.buyandhold.com/bh/en/education/history/2000/dowjo nes.html

Who started your firm?

That's a different Edward D. Jones.

Nice try though.

So if Jones is such a terrible firm then why have they grown so quickly under such terrible management?



http://www.edwardjones.com/pdf/COM-101D.pdf#search='edward%2 0jones%20hawaii’



A difficult question to answer, huh.



BPD

candy bar,

To explain your firm's "rapid growth" P.T. Barnum said it best about suckers.  You may wish to explain why your firm's "burn rate" of new applicants is probably only second to Primerica.

When I started with Jones our revenues / net earnings were 1/20 of Edwards. Today our revenues are higher. I know, I know terrible management, low net worth customers, yadiyada, yadiyada…



Just because YOU didn’t make it at Jones doesn’t mean we have a high “burn rate”. Too bad you got caught in the fire in 1984.



BPD

Primerica touts that it has over 100,000 reps.  It’s forerunner (A.L. Williams) started sometime in the late 70’s I believe.  Using BPD’s logic of “growth=superiority” I guess we’d all have to say Primerica is the best firm in the industry.

[quote=Duke#1] Using BPD's logic of "growth=superiority".[/quote]

To quote my favorite BSD vet, close but no cigar.  BPD actually said that Jones "revenues / net earnings" and rapid increase of same were evidence that its management is not as bad as you claim - i.e., that profitiability=superiority. 

So, if you want to stick with the analogy thing in your posts, a more accurate statement would be something like this:  Using BPD's logic of profits=superiority, company x, which is very profitable (and has been rapidly increasing its profits) must be superior.

Actually, now that I have bothered to spell it out, I can see why you fibbed on the logic.   

[quote=Webster]

Fool,

Some reading for you:

http://www.buyandhold.com/bh/en/education/history/2000/dowjo nes.html

Who started your firm?

[/quote]

Sweet ...

And if you say FGIC insured fast enough, that little old lady will be convinced she just bought a 30 yr gov't backed CD from the Bank of GMAC.

Jonesnewbie,



It’s amazing how many of you Jones Bashers or should I say Jones Failures have Jones in your screen name. Just can’t get Jones out of your head, can you?



I don’t think Prime America or whoever you are talking about has 100,000 offices.



BPD

Jonesnewbie,

Ever notice how many of your firm colleagues seem to resort to name calling whenever they can't come up with a witty retort? Of course Primaerica doesn't have 100,000 offices, a number of them have become EJ brokers....

CJ,



JonesNewbie is not with Jones.



I don’t understand it either, why all the Jones Bashers (a.k.a. jones failures) have Jones in their screen name. If you cut them they would probably bleed green too. They just don’t want to admit it.



BPD

[quote=BigPayDay]

JonesNewbie is not with Jones.

BPD[/quote]

Ummm... yes I am.  BPD, relax, take a couple of deep breaths, think some happy thoughts, and then go back and reread the posts.  The post where you accused me of being stan was actually a response to Stan.  And the post in this thread was actually defending Jones against a typically lame attempt to compare us to Primerica.

Newbie, I wasn't trying to compare Jones to Primerica -- they're in two very different classes of firms (with Jones being the much higher one in my opinion), so excuse me if that's what you thought.  All I was trying to say was that growth of a firm doesn't necessarily equate to quality of a firm, anymore than the growth of anything or of any company doesn't necessarily equate to its quality.

I'm not a former Jones IR, so I don't share the passionate negative feelings of former IRs.  My b/d (RJFS) has a ton of former Jones IRs and those I've gotten to know are very good quality reps who benefitted from starting out w/ Jones to get trained & build a book. 

There's good & bad to all b/ds.  The primary negative feedback I've heard from the former IRs I've gotten to know is about the old technology, lack of fee-based business, & relatively limited product lines.  These are things you probably would rather have changed yourself.  Again, no firm is perfect.

The most passionate negative feelings though (which is probably why you see so many of these on these forums) relates to the feeling like they were somewhat hood-winked at Jones.  They came in as neophytes and fell for the Jones cultural mantra that "Jones is the best", "the Jones way of doing business is the only way to do business", etc.  They felt so isolated within that culture (or cult as some would say) that they didn't realize there is a lot of greener grass in our industry.  That's why you hear so much about drinking the Jones kool-aid.  I think in good measure they're angry with themselves that they didn't see the light of reality sooner.  I remember one guy saying that if Jones had not been so adamant in preaching its culture & praising itself, that his feelings would be much more positive about the firm.  He related to having some god-like hero on a pedestal (sp?) who's so self-righteous, and then you find out he has some serious warts that he's hidden.  You feel duped, and that fallen hero is now garbage in your mind.  In reality that hero may be no lesser a man than another hero who was open in acknowledging his frailty, but that second hero is going to remain a hero to you because he was willing to put himself out there, warts and all. 

PS: Primerica I’m sure doesn’t have 100,000 offices, but they do spout out that they have 100,000 reps.

[quote=Duke#1]

Newbie, I wasn't trying to compare Jones to Primerica -- they're in two very different classes of firms (with Jones being the much higher one in my opinion), so excuse me if that's what you thought. 

[/quote]

WOW, a Jones post that is both insightful and unbiased.  I feel the need to respond in an equally civilized manner.

[quote=Duke#1]

The primary negative feedback I've heard from the former IRs I've gotten to know is about the old technology, lack of fee-based business, & relatively limited product lines.  These are things you probably would rather have changed yourself.  Again, no firm is perfect.

[/quote]

I agree with all three.  But the only one that would really give me pause about my decision to go with Jones is the lack of fee-based.  The limited product line doesn't have much affect on someone at the newbie level, and (frustrating as it can sometimes be) the dated technology is not much of a hindrance to building a business either.

[quote=Duke#1]

The most passionate negative feelings though (which is probably why you see so many of these on these forums) relates to the feeling like they were somewhat hood-winked at Jones.   

[/quote]

I think that is a dead on statement.  To become so disillusioned, you must first have been illusioned about the firm.  Maybe it is because I have worked at "the firm" type companies in the past or maybe it's just that I am more cynical by nature, but I never bought into the hype up front so I am not disappointed by the actual product in the end.

YES, NUMBER ONE FIRM ..IN DISHONESTY TO THEIR LOYAL CLIENTS,

THAT IS SOMETHING TO BE REALLY PROUD OF, ISN'T IT...

errrrrr Player

Do you think you could type just a smidge smaller. Trust me, we can read sized regular fonts.

[quote=Player]

YES, NUMBER ONE FIRM …IN DISHONESTY TO THEIR LOYAL CLIENTS,</font border=“0”>

THAT IS SOMETHING TO BE REALLY PROUD OF, ISN’T IT…

BigPayDay (BRAINWASHED)

Answer the QUESTIONS? 

Let's hear the TRUTH? 

Ask a question.



BPD

BigPayDay, Here are your answers

Jones settled because they thought it was in the best interest of our clients and our advisors. It is very difficult to fignt the U.S. Government in court or for that matter in the press. We did not admit or deny any wrong doing. Are you say JONES DID NO WRONG, YES OR NO ! no "WEASEL" words..?

Doug Hill took the sword for the firm. I know you won't believe this, but it is the truth. HE negotiated the settlement and as he said "There is no one person bigger than the firm." "BS", HE KEPT IS BUTT OUT OF JAIL...FACT!    You are living in FANTASY LAND, CALL THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IN MISSOURI, ASK DOUG HILL TO TELL HIM, THAT IN WRITING! CHECK OUT THE WSJ, I KNOW YOUR CLIENTS DON'T READ IT, BUT YOU NEED TO, IT'S BEEN REPORTED SEVERAL TIMES, GO READ IT! 
As far as other firms not doing revenue sharing, take a look at the following:  NOT ALL FIRMS REVENUE SHARE , YES OR NO?  i SAY NO, WHAT YOU SAY?

http://www.americanfunds.com/pdf/mfgepb-905_gfab.pdf

see page 26.

Yes there are SEVERAL indy firms on the list including Ray Jay and LPL. BUT NOT ALL, ARE THERE ?

As far as Jones being a laughing stock, I doubt it. Maybe to you Jones Failures, but our greatest critic, our clients, in a survey done in Jan and Feb of this year ranked Edward Jones #1 in customer satisfaction. We don't have to answer to the press or envious, jealous Jones failures like you. We serve our clients. Period.

Actually I was very successful at Jones, a Partner, always made top bonus level, recruited, and trained for the FIRM, I got PO'd because the GP's would not fully disclose what was going on , and kept telling us that the "SEC" CHECKING US(JONES) OUT WAS NOTHING! THAT WAS NOT TRUE, WAS IT?

THE GREED OF THE GP'S FINALLY CAUGHT-UP WITH THEM AND THE FIRM, YES OR NO ?

lthough we do not do Wrap Fees in lieu of commission, we do have a Fee Based Advisory program for HNW who are investing $500k or more. Most folks investing under $500k can invest less expensivly than a Fee Based pogram and usually aren't in a high enough tax bracket where writing off the advisory fees helps their taxes. YOU NEED EDUCATION, AND FACTS IN THIS AREA, CHECK IT OUT...THERE IS A REAL WORLD OUT THERE FOR YOU AND YOUR CLIENTS TO DISCOVER, like full discloser, of FEES & CHARGES, and JONES is not close to the lowest!

A few months ago you, Lance Legs, & uwec something or other were saying Jones didn't have enough capital to stay in business. Well guess what? We just had our best trimester in the firm's history. We are in the 40% bonus bracket, almost as high as the heydays of the late '90s. Our limited Partnership, which as averaged 22% since 1990, is at an annualized rate through the first 4 months of over 20%. Over 1/2 of our IRs went on a diversification trip last contest period. Did I mention being the Lexus of the Financial Services industry with our highest Customer Satisfaction rating in JD Powers annual survey? Jones dumped $58million into our profit sharing plan last year. (How much of that goes towards GPs? Zero!) Should I go on?

Get your Facts straight:

1) PLAYER never said such a thing as Jones had a Financial Problem, California could change that?  DO NOT PUT MY NAME WITH THOSE OTHERS

2) JD Power award never asked those clients "How would you feel if Edward Jones got fined for 75 Million Dollars by the SEC, but didn't feel their clients were important enough to tell them about it ? 

What do you think the rating would be then?

3) Your Ir's going on Trips, they pay taxes on, revenue they produced and they live off 38%, so getting back part of the 62% you left on the table is not really too smart is it ?  There is no FREE LUNCH or TRIPS, even at EDWARD JONES?

It isn't as bad as you Jones Bashers (i.e. Jones Failures) wish it was.

I LEFT WHAT IS YOUR EXCUSE?  How can you stand your FIRM , not disclosing to your CLIENTS, what has happen...or can you justify anything...like Bill 3 Mil Hill the FRAUD JUMPER? 

You need to get Jones out of your head. Move on. Life's too short. You may want to seek professional help.

BigPayDay, I have moved on but when I read Hippocrates like you touting how GREAT THE FIRM IS, when the FIRM has failed to be HONEST to their CLIENTS....I FEEL ASHAMED,for Ted & Edward Jones, they would be rolling over in their graves, wouldn't you?

I don't understand how you have put up with out demanding FULL DISCLOSURE for YOU & your clients, or DOESN'T THAT MATTER TO YOU?

ASK YOUR CLIENTS WHAT THEY THINK ABOUT IT, IF YOU HAVE THE GUTS? 

I feel us x-jonsers care more about the integrity of the Firm's past,  than you hanger on's, at least we could look our clients right in the eye and say we have explained everything they should know about our GREAT FIRM, can you really do that now?

Big Pay Day
________________________________________
The Grass is GREENER where you water it!

BigPayDay

BigPayDay (Brainwashed),

At least I can answer questions, let's see what your answers are ?

Are you AFRAID of the TRUTH?

There has never been a JONES SUPPORTER on here yet that has answered QUESTIONS, they only fire back insults...is that how they are teaching salemanship at Edward Jones......

SHOW US WHAT YOU ARE MADE OF "PUNK" make my DAY....

Good thing most of the data for the survey comes from the IRs and BOAs and not home office associates. 

OK, quick quiz: which group is more likely to benefit from getting the #1 slot, regardless of their opinion of the company?

What are the questions asked?

Are there any like:

Does your Firm always disclose everything to it's sale force?    How about to your clients?   Hows that working for you?

When your Firm gets fined by the sec, do they disclose this or try to cover it up?   How's that working for you?

Does your Firm put clients First, or it's own GP's First?        Hows that working for you?

Do you as an IR or BOA believe everything your Firm tells you?   Hows that working for you?

What would the ratings be then?  Hows that working for you?