How did the retention bonus for AGE/WS?
I am trying to get a handle on how the retention bonus for AGE brokers worked when WS bought the firm. Was the bonus paid in one lump sum? Was it broken up? Any input would be helpful.
Thanks.I meant to ask..."How did the retention bonus for AGE/WS work?"
Sorry.why?
I do not work for WFC. However, I believe the new package may by very similar to the AGE/WS package with adjustments for the AGE people who already have a package. I heard that they are calling it a "Capital Infusion" and not a retention package...
Thanks for the sarcasm though... Any real answers?So if you dont work for WFC or WS/AGE why do you care?
Such hostility. Make sure you take care of yourself in these difficult time as it seems to wear a broker's patience thin.
Guess we will all see soon. Hope you get a big fat check...lots of buying opportunities out there these days.
[quote=punkbynature]
Such hostility. Make sure you take care of yourself in these difficult time as it seems to wear a broker’s patience thin.
[/quote]No hostility, I was just wondering why it matters. I don’t care what MER reps are getting because I dont work there, so it is odd that someone would be so concerned…maybe you are just bored.
BTW a search of this forum will answer all your questions.
To say that AGE advisors have been thru more is simply not a factual statement. I sympathize with the fact that you guys have now gone thru multiple name changes in a short amount of time, but I would wager what some of us have gone thru, being DIRECTLY on the front lines is comparable, if not worse. In regards to the packages that AGE got, I have no idea, and really don’t care, it is none of my business. What I am curious about is the package that WS brokers will get going forward. I agree that it should be uniform across the board, and the idea of upfront money sounds just fine by me, although I fear it won’t be. Speaking from my personal point of view, I had expectations of doing 700K this year in a flat market, the reality is I will now do 600K this year (hopefully), and everything else being equal, I would consider myself fortunate to do 500K next year. Just my 2 cents.
I had expectations of doing 700K this year in a flat market, the reality is I will now do 600K this year (hopefully), and everything else being equal, I would consider myself fortunate to do 500K next year. Just my 2 cents.
One of the first times I have ever seen anyone forecast a drop off in gross on this board. Your numbers about 30% higher than mine, am I too am wondering how in the hell next year is not going to a rude awakening. If I look in the mirror, I can only say that CD's and treasuries are going to be the place to be for awhile, but tough to keep the gross coming that way.I am getting a rollover in the next week and at best I will get the client to dca into some funds over the next year plus buy some cds. I have little confidence in VA's these days, especially given the cdsc's and the fact that nobody knows who will be around down the road.
To say that the former AGE brokers have not been through a shittier previous 16 months than the WB brokers is a crock of Bob Bagby. You cant possibly be an AGE broker. You have no clue of the explaining to clients that we have had to do to justify why the firm is now always in the news with negative publicity, the decline in our stock price, the new merger with WFC, and the golden parachutes our CEO’s have gotten which includes what Bob Steel is going to get for putting the WFC deal together. I have lost assets, clients, and goodwill simply due to the Wachovia name, because my clients have feared this name for a while now. I calmed their fears to a point, but it boiled over when the Wachovia name was the next one predicted to fall to the FDIC. It does not matter if you have FDIC, SIPC, NCUA… If the clients have fear, they will run to what they feel is a safer place. My clients did not choose to be with WB before AGE was bought, that is why they were with me and not a WB broker. If we were still AGE, we would only have had Bob Bagby to deal with and not all of the WB bullshit. That being said, you bet your ass the AGE brokers deserve a little more incentive to stick around with the firm at this point. If it don’t happen, there will be a lot of very good brokers leaving and I am talking about the crest++ level producers. WB does not care anything about the below crest level producers, these guys are going to be pushed out of the company anyway because they are considered deadweight in the firm. It has already been mentioned by mid-level managers at WB that they are not going to tolerate these lower brokers as AGE had done in the past. If you are in this category and have a good offer elsewhere, you better get serious about taking it…
Wow! Good vent! Feel the exact same way. Here is the bottom line and I think most "legacy AGE"people feel the same way: 1. Danny and Sr. Management have no credibility. That's 0. Who can beleive a single stutering umm that comes out of his mouth. Even the WS FA's I know are feed up w/ the constant spin and corp line of BS. He knows as much as we do = nothing. So quit pretending that "this is what you dream of".... 2. We need to take back this firm and it's soul. Stop listening to this "Universal Bank Model" BS. Let WFC management know we are fed up with the Danny crap and will walk if he and Sr. Management continue to run the show. They need to be kicked to the side walk. Go back to the roots of both AGE and Wheat, that means put the client first and foremost. We don't need to be a "power house" to accomplish what has worked for over 125 years. 3. Listen to what your top producing FA's are telling you. Don't just pay lip service, listen and then do what you say you are going to do. Stop the spin, we have seen thru it already. 4. Understand that all AGE FA's have now sat in the same chair for the past 17 mo's and in effect undergone 3 name changes and story lines. I am not even going to include our 4 days of "independance under the safe harbour" BS. Clients are asking us when we are leaving! WS FA's have one less on us and I also feel their pain. 5. Let me do my job w/o all the outside distractions. Leave me alone. Don't tell me that you know what's best for my clients. Pay me a far % and get the h#ll out of the way. You already get 60%, leave me alone. 6. And don't you dare take away my incentive trips! (WS has cxl'd a recent PR trip for purely PR reasons) And if you dare to cxl it, I'll sick the wife on you and god bless your soul, she likes the trips. By the way, I earned it and it has always been part of or comp pkg so if you get rid of it, I want to be fairly compensated. First class all the way....besides, this was the last true AGE trip and we were all looking forward to the last hurrah. At least let us have our trips..... 7. And since all our grants are worth next to nothing.... Hey, maybe all those things should be reloaded too, yeh, that's the ticket. Vent complete......To say that the former AGE brokers have not been through a shittier previous 16 months than the WB brokers is a crock of Bob Bagby. You cant possibly be an AGE broker. You have no clue of the explaining to clients that we have had to do to justify why the firm is now always in the news with negative publicity, the decline in our stock price, the new merger with WFC, and the golden parachutes our CEO’s have gotten which includes what Bob Steel is going to get for putting the WFC deal together. I have lost assets, clients, and goodwill simply due to the Wachovia name, because my clients have feared this name for a while now. I calmed their fears to a point, but it boiled over when the Wachovia name was the next one predicted to fall to the FDIC. It does not matter if you have FDIC, SIPC, NCUA… If the clients have fear, they will run to what they feel is a safer place. My clients did not choose to be with WB before AGE was bought, that is why they were with me and not a WB broker. If we were still AGE, we would only have had Bob Bagby to deal with and not all of the WB bullshit. That being said, you bet your ass the AGE brokers deserve a little more incentive to stick around with the firm at this point. If it don’t happen, there will be a lot of very good brokers leaving and I am talking about the crest++ level producers. WB does not care anything about the below crest level producers, these guys are going to be pushed out of the company anyway because they are considered deadweight in the firm. It has already been mentioned by mid-level managers at WB that they are not going to tolerate these lower brokers as AGE had done in the past. If you are in this category and have a good offer elsewhere, you better get serious about taking it…
[quote=Bud Fox]To say that the former AGE brokers have not been through a shittier previous 16 months than the WB brokers is a crock of Bob Bagby. You cant possibly be an AGE broker. You have no clue of the explaining to clients that we have had to do to justify why the firm is now always in the news with negative publicity, the decline in our stock price, the new merger with WFC, and the golden parachutes our CEO’s have gotten which includes what Bob Steel is going to get for putting the WFC deal together. I have lost assets, clients, and goodwill simply due to the Wachovia name, because my clients have feared this name for a while now. I calmed their fears to a point, but it boiled over when the Wachovia name was the next one predicted to fall to the FDIC. It does not matter if you have FDIC, SIPC, NCUA… If the clients have fear, they will run to what they feel is a safer place. My clients did not choose to be with WB before AGE was bought, that is why they were with me and not a WB broker. If we were still AGE, we would only have had Bob Bagby to deal with and not all of the WB bullshit. That being said, you bet your ass the AGE brokers deserve a little more incentive to stick around with the firm at this point. If it don’t happen, there will be a lot of very good brokers leaving and I am talking about the crest++ level producers. WB does not care anything about the below crest level producers, these guys are going to be pushed out of the company anyway because they are considered deadweight in the firm. It has already been mentioned by mid-level managers at WB that they are not going to tolerate these lower brokers as AGE had done in the past. If you are in this category and have a good offer elsewhere, you better get serious about taking it…[/quote]
I understand your frustration, Bud, I really do, but let’s be frank. You have made it clear in earlier posts that you are not willing to take the risk of actually leaving AGE or WB or Citi or WF or whoever takes you over next. And you are in very good company. Methinks he does protest too much.
Good thing the water temperature in the pot is increasing so slowly, otherwise the frogs would have all jumped out of the pot by now.
It isn’t all that complicated. Either accept whatever crap comes your way or leave.
Well said Bud and Shred!
Couple of points…the origin of this thread was “How did the retention bonus for AGE/WS??”. Some/Most/None of us think the package will be similar this time with WFC as it was with AGE/WS. I think all that was being assked was, was it upfront money with a amortization schedule, or was it all deferred, did it include stock?? I think this is a very foar question, seeing as how I work for WS, and would be curious what to possibly look forward to. For those of you who are going to bombard me with long winded responses about how I should do what is in the best inerest of the client. To that point, I say, how is me making sure I am doing the proper thing for me financially in the wrong?? I can service my clients on virtually any platform that facilitates managed money, assuming they are not a super small boutique shop. I would advise any of my clients to do the same thing that I am doing, and that is; entertain any and all viable offers.
If I am an AGE guy, and I can move my business, I would be doing it. Why not?? Many of you complain that it is not the same as it was before, so why wait around?? I know there are a lot of you with "loans" outstanding, but the deals are so big, it has to still be worth it. Finally, I work in affiliation with the bank branches (ISG), so to tell me that things have been tougher on you old school AGE guys is a tough pill to swallow. Has it been tough on all of us?? WITHOUT A DOUBT!!! So, in an effort to not let the question get washed out with all the other BS, what was the package like for the AGE guys?? I look forward to the open-minded responses.a % upfront in cash, with forgivable loan over 6 years and a % in defered comp w/ 10 year vest. YOur payout was determined by your gross. I am sure you can find those data points in these threds or Infomax.
With respect to what AGE FA's have been through the last year and a half, you've had plenty of time to see Wachovia's "Best Practices" and all of the rest of the bull you were fed from the day 1. If you don't have the guts (or sense, some may say) to be seriously considering other avenues at this point, then you deserve everything you (don't) get. I didn't stick around one more minute than I had to, and I haven't looked back since. By the way, has anyone heard from Bagby since he sold out for $90/share ($90/share!!!) ?[quote=Bud Fox]
It isn’t all that complicated. Either accept whatever crap comes your way or leave.
Everything I’m hearing from folks I know at Wells in SF is that Wachovia folks need to be ‘prepared’ to be disappointed with the retention package. One of my best friends wife is pretty far up the Wells Fargo ladder at HQ in their HR group. I’m told the culture at Wells and the view of Wachovia is that there is a ton of cost cutting to come to the Wachovia world. I’d guess Profit Formula will probably be first to go or get a major re-design due to razor thin impact if not losses on too many branch P&Ls as well. I’ve heard nothing yet that makes me think the masses at Wachovia are going to be so happy about things down the road. I wish it were otherwise.
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HR? HR doesn’t know how to run a business. Sure there is always plenty of fluff in management but to think that HR has any input into a retention pkg is laughable.
I could not agree more. HR could not run a popsicle stand imho. That’s why I hope it’s hearsay, not factual. We shall see.
Just talked to a buddy of mine from College who is doing big numbers at WFC as a branch broker, he has been on the miserable side there for awhile but hard for him to walk from the 50K month trailers..he said payout cuts coming to all WFC brokers and WB guys would get 1 year grandfather to old WB grid, then transition to WFC grid, which he says he was too embarrassed to tell me. Also thinks retention package will be low to non existant for most...Not in the culture there to give $$$, and their main focus on the merger was to get east coast branches, not more brokers. They are already encouraging all tellers to get 7's and that has hurt his gross already pretty good this past year. He says even with him doing 7 figures there they do not care of he leaves, in their eyes on of his 3 assistants will just step right in and service the book. Anyone thinks that this is going to be a great scenario for WB brokers is probably going to surprised.Everything I’m hearing from folks I know at Wells in SF is that Wachovia folks need to be ‘prepared’ to be disappointed with the retention package. One of my best friends wife is pretty far up the Wells Fargo ladder at HQ in their HR group. I’m told the culture at Wells and the view of Wachovia is that there is a ton of cost cutting to come to the Wachovia world. I’d guess Profit Formula will probably be first to go or get a major re-design due to razor thin impact if not losses on too many branch P&Ls as well. I’ve heard nothing yet that makes me think the masses at Wachovia are going to be so happy about things down the road. I wish it were otherwise.
'
This is all very simple. If Wells Fargo wants to retain some of the best Financial Advisers in the business, we will see a retention package similar to what the WB/AGE deal was.
If they are not interested in the billion dollars that we produce each year, then they will offer us a crappy retention bonus and they will see a MASS exodus. So far I respect WFC and I hope they respect us.
Is that Billin dollars t-12 or going forward..Can tell you my buddie did not want to go motivational speaker pep talk last week, and they pretty told him he is "replaceable". He does well over 1 Mill and they do not care about him, so what does that say..he has been there 15 years.This is all very simple. If Wells Fargo wants to retain some of the best Financial Advisers in the business, we will see a retention package similar to what the WB/AGE deal was.
If they are not interested in the billion dollars that we produce each year, then they will offer us a crappy retention bonus and they will see a MASS exodus. So far I respect WFC and I hope they respect us.
Just talked to a buddy of mine from College who is doing big numbers at WFC as a branch broker, he has been on the miserable side there for awhile but hard for him to walk from the 50K month trailers..he said payout cuts coming to all WFC brokers and WB guys would get 1 year grandfather to old WB grid, then transition to WFC grid, which he says he was too embarrassed to tell me. Also thinks retention package will be low to non existant for most...Not in the culture there to give $$$, and their main focus on the merger was to get east coast branches, not more brokers. They are already encouraging all tellers to get 7's and that has hurt his gross already pretty good this past year. He says even with him doing 7 figures there they do not care of he leaves, in their eyes on of his 3 assistants will just step right in and service the book. Anyone thinks that this is going to be a great scenario for WB brokers is probably going to surprised.[/quote][quote=burtonfinancial1]Everything I’m hearing from folks I know at Wells in SF is that Wachovia folks need to be ‘prepared’ to be disappointed with the retention package. One of my best friends wife is pretty far up the Wells Fargo ladder at HQ in their HR group. I’m told the culture at Wells and the view of Wachovia is that there is a ton of cost cutting to come to the Wachovia world. I’d guess Profit Formula will probably be first to go or get a major re-design due to razor thin impact if not losses on too many branch P&Ls as well. I’ve heard nothing yet that makes me think the masses at Wachovia are going to be so happy about things down the road. I wish it were otherwise.
'
I would not pay much attention to what HR or a WFC bank broker says. I would look to what BAC pays MER as a starting point. Listen its been hard on both WS and AGE brokers over the past year. WB screwed the pooch and it employees have paid for it. Now that there is some stability you need to get on the phone and touch your book. If you don't someone else will.
It’s not apples to apples to compare the branch brokers to whatever it is they call us Legacy AGE guys. That being said, I would not be shocked if they offer a small amount given the condtions.
I don't even know what I'd compare a million dollar branch broker to at a wirehouse. The TT is impressive but I think they are expected to double the average production given the handouts they get. Those clients are stickier to the bank versus wirehouse clients I would think. These days, I don't profess to know a whole lot...Wells Fargo does not have a track record of running a large scale brokerage firm like WS. What makes anyone think that they will get this integration right? They are first and foremost bankers and I wouldn’t expect them to change their 100+ year old banking culture because they just picked up 14,000 disappointed brokers.
And there is always the possibility they (WFC) sells off WS to the highest bidder. Hence, I and a lot of fcs are doing our homework elsewhere. I've found with all the crud going on these days, the competition is too busy dealing with their own crud to worry about recruiting.
[quote=Gordon Gekko]It’s not apples to apples to compare the branch brokers to whatever it is they call us Legacy AGE guys. That being said, I would not be shocked if they offer a small amount given the condtions.
I don't even know what I'd compare a million dollar branch broker to at a wirehouse. The TT is impressive but I think they are expected to double the average production given the handouts they get. Those clients are stickier to the bank versus wirehouse clients I would think. These days, I don't profess to know a whole lot... [/quote] Dont think in their eyes it matters, but interesting note from you..I have seen about a dozen rookies who did not or could make it at wirehouses Ive been at and couple other producers go to bank..and what ive seen is someone who could not do 50K in production will do 300K at the bank and guys doing 200K at wirehouse can do about as much as they want at the bank, their own ethics are the only thing controlling of they do 500K or 1 Million, the non stop stream of suckers walking though you door lets you decide what product is right, CD paying 4% or a fixed annuity and then flip them into another one as fast as you can.You don’t seem to control your own destiny as much at the branch versus wirehouse in my opinion. A premium is paid for individuals who can grow a business on their own versus having it semi-handed to them.
Anyone who gets it would agree with you... But who knows how smart people are. My shop paid 200% for a 2 million T-12 team of 3 from Wamu..after 6 months they are at around 225K..My common sense would be not to pay bank brokers any up front money, all back end based on whether they can do it with bank customers.You don’t seem to control your own destiny as much at the branch versus wirehouse in my opinion. A premium is paid for individuals who can grow a business on their own versus having it semi-handed to them.
Is that Billin dollars t-12 or going forward..Can tell you my buddie did not want to go motivational speaker pep talk last week, and they pretty told him he is "replaceable". He does well over 1 Mill and they do not care about him, so what does that say..he has been there 15 years.[/quote][quote=Jeroxide]This is all very simple. If Wells Fargo wants to retain some of the best Financial Advisers in the business, we will see a retention package similar to what the WB/AGE deal was.
If they are not interested in the billion dollars that we produce each year, then they will offer us a crappy retention bonus and they will see a MASS exodus. So far I respect WFC and I hope they respect us.
If he works in a bank branch than he is very replacable, the assets came to him becasue of WFC and will stay becasue of WFC....the legacy AGE, and non bank WS reps did not get any business that way...so if WFC doesnt understand that then the brokers and assets will walk away...that may work for a crappy broker that sits in a bank branch waiting for referrals...but not for a broker in a branch office.
The hate for the bank broker is unbelievable. If SOME of you guys are so angry that we (yes, I work for ISG) get these “lay-ups” why would you not do the same thing. I guess nobody wants an endless referral source, huh?? For what it is worth, I do not work in a branch anymore, 50% of my business is managed money (or at least it USED to be 50%). For a lot of guys, working in the branch still makes sense, but once you have been in the same place for more than 5 years, it becomes more of a nusance than anything else. My referral come from my top clients, and I would assume that is true for most people in my position. I also believe that my clients are loyal to me, not the bank. If I move, we will soon find out for sure, but to assume that WS Bank Brokers are doing mostly fixed annuity business is simply not true. We as a collective do more Managed Money every month than anything else.
You're right duster but I don't believe it's hate for the bank broker I believe it's either envy or ignorance that is prevelent on this board. There seems to be this prevailing attitude here on the RR forums that working in a bank & being handed an endless referral source (at LEAST a dozen a week in my case) is some how dishonorable. Last time I checked there was no dishonor is working smart & being successful.
Many on here are of the belief that the bank brokers only product/tool is the fixed annuity and all of his clients automatically get slammed into a fixed or equity index annuity...they don't understand that my broker/dealers plateform is unresticted & wide open & many of us can sell whatever is most appropriate for the client just as any independent rep would do. True there are wide variations and many bank brokers do have limited access to products & services but some of us are as flexible as any independent with respect to our product offerings. Like anything else there are positives/negatives to woking in the bank channel...I simply believe that the business is big and diverse enough to accomodate a number of different channels & no one has a lock on "mine is best". Fortunately we are all free to select what is best for our clients and ourselves and run with it. That's the beauty of the business - there's more than one way to skin a cat.I agree with you in concept, that they need to come up with a good retention package to compensate us for the pain of the last few months, but then I wake up. Here’s the reality: times are crazy! Look at the public outcry over the AIG $400K executive trip. I can just see the headlines now “Taxpayer Money From Bailout Goes Directly To Give Millions To The FA’s Who Just Lost You 40%”. Now matter what the money is really for, the public will not like it. Nor will Congress. If you think that they have limited executive pay and won’t limit our packages, wake up.
Not trying to be a pessimist, but I just don’t see much coming. I think that is why BAC/MER has been delayed so much. They are trying to guage public opinion.
However, I really hope that I am wrong.
I dont work for either ML or BAC…but the only logical reason for waiting this long is they want as many ML brokers to leave as possible so they dont have to give $$$ out. From what I have heard is there is some serious regret about their purchase of ML.
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