Edward Jones Settlement Checks

Since the money came from a settlement fund, why would they have to put it back into a qualified account. Revenue sharing comes from the Mutual Fund company, therefore the client would not have ever received that money anyway... will the clients' be taxed on this money and does anyone know why?

[quote=munytalks]

Since the money came from a settlement fund, why would they have to put it back into a qualified account. Revenue sharing comes from the Mutual Fund company, therefore the client would not have ever received that money anyway... will the clients' be taxed on this money and does anyone know why?

[/quote]

The check that I just got from EDJ is made payable to
"The Trustee of Babbling Looney IRA"   So I guess you do have to put it into a qualified account.   I supposed if I don't,I would be taxed.  But for a whole $12.94, not much of a worry.

Update:   If I had read the letter that came in the envelope I wouldn't have to update....DOH

It has been determined that .66% of your distribution amount represents interest income.  If required, you will be issued a form 1099.  blah blah blah.... consult your tax advisor.

 These checks are laughable! I too have been feilding calls on what to do with themm. It is a waste but laughable none the less.

I get asked, "what are these checks for and why?" I let them know that the previous firm I was with was less than honest and this is money that they owed to "You" for their less than honorable activity! I remind them that the famed Doug Molehill always said "Our number one objective is firm growth"..... I remind the client that my number one objective is making sure that "they, my client" retire in dignity!

Teleman-

Thanks for the improved font size. I know I am in my midlife now. I like it!

As far as the checks, my assistant is going to need a mental day off after fielding many calls in the last two days regarding the settlement checks.

 Footsoldier,

Oh yeah! This is such a great thing to share with these clients of mine. This has been yet another affirmation that leaving Ed Jones was the best thing I ever did. I would have been smarter to leave a couple of years earlier.

So what are you people telling these clients about your current firm's revenue sharing practices?  Or are you leaving out the fact that Jones was absolutely NOT the only firm that did and continues to do revenue sharing?  Moving from Jones to another firm doesn't mean the revenue sharing stopped also. 

Am I the only one annoyed by this?  Almost all of my clients who were with me at Jones are getting checks ranging from $1 to $300.

So, instead of being on the phone and selling, I'm having to field calls on "I got this check for $5.98, what do I do with it?" 

For the regular accounts, I'm telling them to cash the checks and enjoy the cash.  For the qualified accounts, I'm recommending they put it back into their IRAs.  I'm assuming these are trustee to trustee transfers, anyone else doing it differently?

Yes, i have the same problem.  I'm depositing the checking into their IRA/regular accounts.  And submitting a letter with it.  It holds my firm harmless.  I have to add.  EJ, what a firm?  It's great to be Indy.  Best of all, no regional meetings!

Spiffy,

No RS at my firm but I was happy to share that I was the guy who made the checks possible.  Unlike Jones, every MFD wholesaler can call on me and they can tell me about ALL of their funds not just the ones on Jones list...not that I want to talk to them all. 

What exactly is the EJ company line on this?  They must have given you guys a script...but I'm sure you're too intimidated by EJ and embarrassed to share that with us.

Having said all that, you're one of the few EJ guys who still using his own brain...my hats off to you.

spiff -

problem is not rev shar but failure on part of incompetent legal/compliance to disclose.

small inconsequential checks indicative of overall edj experience -

catering to small inconsequential “investor”.

no problem with that approach tho. somebody has to serve

the unsophistocated little guy.

I was told EDJ would prefer that the clients put these checks into the clients' IRAs, although they are not issuing 1099's, so no consequences if we don't.  My question is for clients maxing out their IRA, how do we add this additional $10 or whatever?  The mutual fund applications don't have a box to check for EDJ screwed up.

How is everyone else handling this?

Thanks.

Just deposit them into the ira's. My client checks are running any where from the puny 10 to a few hundred. Many of these checks are in non qualified accounts. I tell them to spend it if they want or we can drop it in their account asnd put it back to work "THE RIGHT WAY" this time.

A word to Spiffy- The word independent means, "NO PREFERRED FUND FAMILIES" It means, I can use anyone I want. Revenue sharing is heavily employed by Ed Jones as their "Shelf space fee". Ej has a desirable distribution channel and most of the fund families will prostitute themselves to this extortion method by Jones. Even  their sacred American Funds.

Spiffy-

All along you have been right on the mark that EDWARD JONES is not alone when it comes to kickbacks.

Today in the WSJ, Chevron while admitting no wrongdoing admitted to participating in kickbacks to Saddam Hussein in the United Nations food for oil program. Revenue sharing is in most industries, and ours is no different.

Maybe its time to own up to our indiscretions, instead of implying that since everyone in every industry does it, it is OK.

I am sick of revenue sharing and all that it brings. I say lets ban the practice and throw the jokers in the pokey if they participate. Let's clean up our house so others don't attack us (are you listening Mr. Spitzer?). And most of all let's be adults and show some integrity and police ourselves better so that the lawyers go elsewhere to make their dough. It's greed that got us to this point, hopefully someone smarter than me can figure out how to clean it up. Spiffy are you ready to leave Jones to champion our cause!!!

I’m still not clear on this.  If I have a client who has already put $4,000 in for 2007, and he puts in another $20, won’t that trigger a notice to the IRS that he put in $20 over the contribution limit for 2007?

I code them as transfers, which, is what they are.

[quote=Teleman]

A word to Spiffy- The word independent means, "NO PREFERRED FUND FAMILIES" It means, I can use anyone I want. Revenue sharing is heavily employed by Ed Jones as their "Shelf space fee". Ej has a desirable distribution channel and most of the fund families will prostitute themselves to this extortion method by Jones. Even  their sacred American Funds.

[/quote]

So Morgan, Merrill, AGE, RJ, LPL, Schwab, UBS, SB, and a host of others aren't using this same tactic?  I think it was Smith Barney, I could be wrong, who has on their website a list of fund families who have broker access because they revenue share and a list families that revenue share but don't have broker access.  Why do you think that is?  I honestly don't know, but I'll bet it has something to do with the amount of money the families kick back.  Now you tell me if that's a list of "preferred fund families" or not.  

I had a client who left me when the revenue sharing thing hit the papers here in STL in 2004.  Said he was going to Schwab because they don't revenue share.  They were above that.  His words.  The account ACAT'd the next day and I spent 5 minutes searching Schwab's website for their revenue sharing disclosure statement.  I think there was something like 70 different fund families that did revenue sharing with them.  I printed it and mailed to it the guy with that paragraph highlighted.  Your attitude is the same as his and it reeks of hypocrisy. 

I'll agree that Jones should have disclosed it more, but at the time we were in compliance with all of the regulators.  The rules changed midstream and we got caught in the cross hairs. 

I don't know who you work for, LPL or Ray Jay I'd guess, but before you start telling your clients that Jones did something evil, I'd push a copy of your own disclosure statement across the desk at them.  I'd hate to see you have to come back later and tell them again that yet another company that you used to be affiliated with did something wrong. 

BTW, fix the font.  That's really annoying.  

Oh, and another thing for Spiffy regarding rev share......Your firm is the only one writing checks. No other firms are doing this because no one else does this quite like the boys in STL.

 Son, "Here's your sign!"

Spiff, Jones didn’t get slammed because they were the only one with revenue

sharing…they got it because of the ‘holier-than-thou’ letter in the WSJ.

Bachmann should have kept his yap shut.

[quote=midtown]spiff -
problem is not rev shar but failure on part of incompetent legal/compliance to disclose.
small inconsequential checks indicative of overall edj experience -
catering to small inconsequential "investor".
no problem with that approach tho. somebody has to serve
the unsophistocated little guy.
[/quote]

No, the checks were a result of trying to split $75 million between 2.1 million people.  What kind disclosure did anyone do before Jones got hit?  None that I saw or heard.  Does that mean everyone's legal department was incompetant? 

Can you send me a list of your clients that have "inconsequential" money invested with you?  Would that be anything under $250K, $100K or $50K?  Would you actually use the word "inconsequential" with them or tell them they're not sophisticated enough to work with you?  Do you give them a test before you sit down with them?  Some of the largest accounts I've seen belong to people who don't know what their doing letting brokers do whatever they feel like to their accounts.  Pitiful. 

My philosophy...everyone needs help.  The uneducated are only uneducated because they've been snubbed by the "advisors" who are chasing the HNW crowd.  Some of my biggest referrals have come from some of my smallest accounts who I choose to not ignore.  People like you piss me off.  See that thing you're sitting on.  It's called a high horse.  You need to climb off of it.  

[quote=Starka]Spiff, Jones didn't get slammed because they were the only one with revenue
sharing...they got it because of the 'holier-than-thou' letter in the WSJ.
Bachmann should have kept his yap shut.[/quote]

Yeah, that did paint a big target on John's back didn't it.  Maybe he should have asked someone besides Doug if he should send it. 

Spiff, I believe it’s your firm which should get off the Holier than thou train.  Look at your companies balance sheet…isn’t it wonderful how much money can be made (upfront or underhanded, you pick) from the unsophisticated investor…Great business model.  The investors in the know…don’t use EDJ’s.  If EDJ wanted to do what’s right…let go of revenue sharing, open up the platform to alll that is out there…let the brokers mingle with other brokers (outside of the cult meetings)…THis fine was a drop in the bucket…EDJ didn’t flinch… moved on as a cost of doing business.  You guys print money in Stl. All at the expense of the unsophisticated investor. Reminds me of…hmmm…Primevest maybe?  How about the payday loan companies…You should only use us for emergency’s(but we won’t turn you down otherwise)…profitting off the unsophisticated loan applicant…YOU GO SPIFFY!!

Are you serious?  Have you seen how many times other brokerage firms have been fined big money or small money time and time again for things like failure to supervise or something like that.  You're right, Jones didn't flinch when we had to write a check.  It is a part of doing business.  I don't think anyone at Jones will argue that it's better to disclose the revenue sharing than try to hide it.  It is better the client knows everything upfront.  

I suppose your going to tell me that all of the "smart" investors go seek out some indy broker somewhere.  That because someone is affilitated with LPL or RJ that it automatically makes them a better broker and that the smart investor knows and understands this.  How do other companies like Merrill or UBS survive?  They must all have stupid, unsophisticated clients too.  Can you tell me what firm all the smart people invest at, cause I'm tired of working with the stupid ones out there.  Boy, I hope that company doesn't have a healthy balance sheet, cause I'd hate to see that they're making any money off of those intelligent investors.

Yes, we make money off of our clients money.  Upfront from comissions, through revenue sharing, from fees and interest from different places.  It's called running a profitable business.  Yes, we do print money in STL.  And we're getting better all the time.  Last I heard this was a country where you were allowed to do that.  I hope I never hear anyone at Jones apologizing for the amount of money we make.  I hope we make so much money that they start raising salaries for home office associates and BOAs.  I hope the GPs continue to make the money they do.  Some of them are friends of mine and I like hearing that their hard work and sacrifice has paid off for them. 

At the end of the day I don't think my clients give a rip if the name on my door says EDJ/Spaceman Spiff, FA or Spaceman Spiff's Investment firm as long as at the end of the year their statement has bigger numbers than on Jan 1.  Sophisticated or unsophisticated everyone has goals and dreams and plans.  Someone has to help them acheive them.  This pissing match about mine is bigger than yours because I'm affiliated with this or that is stupid.  This experience is about finding the right group of people you can help acheive those goals and doing it to the best of your ability.  Indy, wirehouse, or regional firm is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.    

To be fair, independent firms do have revenue sharing agreements. Here is LPL's blurb about it on their website.  One big difference is that the rep receives NONE of the revenue sharing payment that goes to LPL.  The only benefit to the rep is that the ticket charge ($23) is either waived or reduced.

*******************************************

Sponsorship Programs

The mutual fund families that participate in the Sponsorship Programs are listed in the chart below.

The payments made under the Sponsorship Programs are calculated based upon the assets that are held at the participating mutual fund family, excluding assets held in fee-based advisory programs at LPL. LPL may receive compensation of up to 0.15 percent of the assets held at the mutual fund family. For example, if you held $10,000 dollars with a participating mutual fund family for one year, LPL could receive a payment of up to $15 from the mutual fund sponsor. LPL Financial Advisors do not receive any part of these payments.

LPL also assesses Financial Advisors a $23 ticket charge for automated purchases of mutual funds. Generally, the mutual fund families that participate in the Sponsorship Programs subsidize some of these ticket charges. As indicated on the chart below, in some cases the ticket charge is waived completely, and in other cases it is discounted. Every mutual fund offered by LPL also may be purchased without a ticket charge by processing the transaction with a check and application sent directly to the mutual fund company. We believe that these programs do not compromise the advice your Financial Advisor gives you.

Mutual Fund Sponsors

AIG SunAmerica
AIM Investments
Alliance Bernstein*
Allianz Global Investors
BlackRock
Columbia Funds*
Delaware Financial
Dreyfus (load)
DWS Scudder Investments*
Eaton Vance Managed Investments
Federated
Fidelity Advisor
Franklin Templeton Investments
Goldman, Sachs & Co.
ING Funds
IXIS Asset Management
John Hancock Funds
Lord Abbett
Oppenheimer Funds*
Phoenix Investments
Pioneer Investments
Prudential Financial
Putnam Investments*
Sun Life Financial Distributors, Inc.*
The Hartford (Planco/Hartford)*
Van Kampen Investments*
WM Group of Funds

*Ticket charges for purchases of mutual funds offered by these families are paid for by the mutual fund sponsors.

Purchases of mutual funds offered by the mutual fund families above without an asterisk are subject to reduced ticket charges.

******************************************

I find it funny how WE make all this money. WE are ok with the money. Don’t you mean they and them?

[quote=now_indy]

To be fair, independent firms do have revenue sharing agreements. Here is LPL’s blurb about it on their website.  One big difference is that the rep receives NONE of the revenue sharing payment that goes to LPL.  The only benefit to the rep is that the ticket charge ($23) is either waived or reduced.

*******************************************

Sponsorship Programs

The mutual fund families that participate in the Sponsorship Programs are listed in the chart below.

The payments made under the Sponsorship Programs are calculated based upon the assets that are held at the participating mutual fund family, excluding assets held in fee-based advisory programs at LPL. LPL may receive compensation of up to 0.15 percent of the assets held at the mutual fund family. For example, if you held $10,000 dollars with a participating mutual fund family for one year, LPL could receive a payment of up to $15 from the mutual fund sponsor. LPL Financial Advisors do not receive any part of these payments.

LPL also assesses Financial Advisors a $23 ticket charge for automated purchases of mutual funds. Generally, the mutual fund families that participate in the Sponsorship Programs subsidize some of these ticket charges. As indicated on the chart below, in some cases the ticket charge is waived completely, and in other cases it is discounted. Every mutual fund offered by LPL also may be purchased without a ticket charge by processing the transaction with a check and application sent directly to the mutual fund company. We believe that these programs do not compromise the advice your Financial Advisor gives you.

Mutual Fund Sponsors

AIG SunAmerica
AIM Investments
Alliance Bernstein*
Allianz Global Investors
BlackRock
Columbia Funds*
Delaware Financial
Dreyfus (load)
DWS Scudder Investments*
Eaton Vance Managed Investments
Federated
Fidelity Advisor
Franklin Templeton Investments
Goldman, Sachs & Co.
ING Funds
IXIS Asset Management
John Hancock Funds
Lord Abbett
Oppenheimer Funds*
Phoenix Investments
Pioneer Investments
Prudential Financial
Putnam Investments*
Sun Life Financial Distributors, Inc.*
The Hartford (Planco/Hartford)*
Van Kampen Investments*
WM Group of Funds

*Ticket charges for purchases of mutual funds offered by these families are paid for by the mutual fund sponsors.

Purchases of mutual funds offered by the mutual fund families above without an asterisk are subject to reduced ticket charges.

******************************************

Spiff…your drunk again!

bspears,

Cut my boy Spiff a break...at least he uses logic and put some thought into his responses..."The kook-aid is not strong in this one."

Spiff does seem to speak with logic, but maybe this is a home office ploy to get us to believe that Jones has returned from the dark side, and now they are using the force on us to make us just forget. LOL!!!

Sorry, they’re not using the force, they’re using the “kool-aid” HA!!

Okay…Spiff your just buzzing…your not drunk yet.

To be fair, independent firms do have revenue sharing agreements. Here is LPL's blurb about it on their website.  One big difference is that the rep receives NONE of the revenue sharing payment that goes to LPL.  The only benefit to the rep is that the ticket charge ($23) is either waived or reduced.

Now-Indy is right.  I think that all broker/dealers have some sort of an arrangement like this.  I have disclosures to hand out to explain the same thing to my clients.  Some "Partner" fund give me a reduced ticket charge.  Seriously, even though we independents need to control costs as any business owner does, the difference in ticket costs is not enough to make me choose one fund over another.

If ticket charges are an issue on commission accounts for small trades, I just de-network the account and send it back to the fund family where there are no ticket costs.

[quote=STL Sucks]I find it funny how WE make all this money. WE are ok with the money. Don't you mean they and them?[/quote]

No, I mean we.  As I see myself as a part of the whole at Jones, I use the inclusive pronoun we instead of the exclusive pronouns they and them.  While the they and them make a lot more of the money than I, I'm still OK with the way I put it. 

Revenue sharing, even when we actually got paid based on the fund families we sold, has never been a reason to pick one family over another, ie Hartford vs. American.  Unless you had a huge office, the difference in profitability wasn't enought to matter.  I do know that some brokers did look at it, but not my office.  In fact, I'd say the majority of us didn't look at it that way.  Just look at the amount of money that goes to American and you have your proof. 

Hey spears, are you going to answer my question about where all the "sophisticated" investors go? 

Spiff,

The issue with RS is the closed society you IR's work in at EJ.  You have to work really hard to find info. on other non-preferred families.  Yes...it can be done but goes against human nature...i.e...98% of EJ fund sales are in the preferred families.  You EJ guys can tell me all day about how you can use other families but when it comes down to it...98% of the funds are preferreds (this stat came from EJ about 5 years ago but I'm guessing it still applies)

Pay to Play…Spiff…don’t kid yourself…the sophisticated investor is NOT seeking you out, or Primevest either.  Plain and simple. Have you seen the portfolio review tool being used by LPL?  Ex…I have a client who, by the JONES BAR CHARTS, was well diversified.  When we ran the portfolio through LPL’s, I find  77% of her money is in Large cap growth and value. No midcaps…no smallcap value…no reits…and yes it was all in American Funds because of breakpoints.  Now, the reason Jones doesn’t break it down that far for allocations…is welll…you guessed it…they would have to offer more funds than they do…and then they would have to have pay to play arrangements in place.  SO to answer your question…sophisticated investors go to anyother B/D, independent or wirehouse, that trully works on investment planning and not SELLING.  Good day and Good SELLING SPIFFFFFY!!

[quote=bspears]Pay to Play…Spiff…don’t kid yourself…the sophisticated investor is NOT seeking you out, or Primevest either.  Plain and simple. Have you seen the portfolio review tool being used by LPL?  Ex…I have a client who, by the JONES BAR CHARTS, was well diversified.  When we ran the portfolio through LPL’s, I find  77% of her money is in Large cap growth and value. No midcaps…no smallcap value…no reits…and yes it was all in American Funds because of breakpoints.  Now, the reason Jones doesn’t break it down that far for allocations…is welll…you guessed it…they would have to offer more funds than they do…and then they would have to have pay to play arrangements in place.  SO to answer your question…sophisticated investors go to anyother B/D, independent or wirehouse, that trully works on investment planning and not SELLING.  Good day and Good SELLING SPIFFFFFY!![/quote]

The only tool you used was the bar charts?  Wow, did you ever look at the REIT’s that Jones follows or the REIT mutual fund list that is on the system or use instant x-ray to see where you fell in the style boxes?

You beat me to it Max.  Every new guy that I can get to listen I try to teach them that the bar charts are a great basic tool.  They can work their entire career and not look past that and do very well for their clients.  However, if you really want to know what is going on in a portfolio, or where the holes are in the other guys portfolio you're trying to steal, you have to use the X-Ray tool.  That tool is the major reason I don't send every dollar I get to American Funds anymore.  Too much overlap, too much large value and growth.  Not enough of everything else.  To be fair to American Funds though, I believe you can build a good portfolio using their funds and for basic investors, they are hard to beat.  And if you put some real thought into it, and not just toe the company line, you can fill all of the Morningstar boxes with the appropriate amounts.  And Jones doesn't have to add more fund families to do it.  

It's not Jones' fault that you weren't a think outside the box kind of guy while you were here.  Maybe it took leaving for you to figure out that there's more to investing than bar charts.  I'm sure you're clients are better off now for your leaving. 

I'm curious.  When you refer to an investor as sophisticated, what qualifies that person as such in your mind?  Is is the amount of money they have?  Is it a stock vs. mutual fund vs. ETF investor?  The reason I ask is that out of the thousands of people I've met in my short career, only a small handful of them I would classify as sophisticated.  And they weren't looking for advice from advisors at any firm.  They have a Schwab or Vanguard account and they are doing it themselves. Teach me what to look for, Oh Wise One, in my search for intelligent investors. 

[quote=Spaceman Spiff]

The reason I ask is that out of the thousands of people I've met in my short career, only a small handful of them I would classify as sophisticated.   

[/quote]

That includes all of the Jones reps Spiff has met in St Louis 

[quote=Teleman]

Just deposit them into the ira's. My client checks are running any where from the puny 10 to a few hundred. Many of these checks are in non qualified accounts. I tell them to spend it if they want or we can drop it in their account asnd put it back to work "THE RIGHT WAY" this time.

A word to Spiffy- The word independent means, "NO PREFERRED FUND FAMILIES" It means, I can use anyone I want. Revenue sharing is heavily employed by Ed Jones as their "Shelf space fee". Ej has a desirable distribution channel and most of the fund families will prostitute themselves to this extortion method by Jones. Even  their sacred American Funds.

[/quote]

Uh, independent doesn't mean no preferred funds.  What about ticket charges you have to pay for "non preferred" funds.  You're telling me that doesn't push you towards the preferred funds?

I use mutual funds VERY sparingly, but the one I use when needed carries a

full ticket charge. So no, I’m not pushed towards any ‘preferred funds’.

Spiff, Max you are proving the point. X-ray is not a Jones tool.It is provided by a preferred revenue sharing vendor. I taught a part on it in my region… approximately 10% of the IR’s were using the tool. Seriously you can not debate this topic until Jones gives you the ability to utilize and download tools that allow you to be great advisors. You must backpeddle on this point or all your other salient points wil lose credilbility to those of us ex-Jonesers who try to be somewhat un-biased. You simply so not thave the same tools and platforms available to you and that is why you actually @ jones do tend to attract a certain type of client.

Britney, as an aside, I think you have PrimeVest crossed with Primerica.  PrimeVest is not a bad B/D...certainly not in the realm of Primerica.

My bad Indy…I stand corrected.  Spiffy your telling tales.  You have such a wood to become a GP, you will do NOTHING other than what is taught at jones.  You sell nothing but preferreds, and longggggg term bonds…anything that pays 2 pts or better.  You recruit the local homeless guy to fill a contest category.  I was taught to sell from the BAR CHART.  Let me say this again…I WAS TAUGHT TO SELL FROM THE BAR CHART!!  PORTFOLIO REVIEWS WERE BASED ON THE BAR CHART!!!  WHEN I TRIED TO USE X-RAY, THE PERSON AT GOLDMAN ASKED IF I USED GOLDMAN FUNDS, I SAID NO…HE SAID, WHY DON"T YOU DROP US A TICKET AND WILL GET YOU SIGNED UP TO GET IN TO X-RAY…PAY TO PLAY.  GO SELL SOMETHING…to SOMEBODY.

[quote=skolbrother]Spiff, Max you are proving the point. X-ray is not a Jones tool.It is provided by a preferred revenue sharing vendor. I taught a part on it in my region… approximately 10% of the IR’s were using the tool. Seriously you can not debate this topic until Jones gives you the ability to utilize and download tools that allow you to be great advisors. You must backpeddle on this point or all your other salient points wil lose credilbility to those of us ex-Jonesers who try to be somewhat un-biased. You simply so not thave the same tools and platforms available to you and that is why you actually @ jones do tend to attract a certain type of client. [/quote]

I also use the asset allocator tool that is part of the Sungard Financial Planning software that Jones rolled out this year.  I like the efficient frontier chart to discuss risk/reward trade offs with people.

spears - My experience with the X-Rax is completely different.  Maybe it used to be that way.  It was the Goldman guy who pointed it out to me, but it doesn't take much to figure out that it's run by Morningstar.  In fact on their website it's call the Morningstar Instant X-ray, not the Goldman Sachs Instant X-Ray.  Your internal must have been a jerk.  The only wholesaler who has ever told me to send him some tickets before he'll do anything was the Van Kampen guy when I asked about seminars. 

You're jumping to conclusions about my business based on your experiences with Jones.  Again, maybe you weren't a think outside the box kind of guy when you were at Jones.  That's your problem.  If you couldn't figure out how to get what you thought you needed in order to do your job correctly, then you needed to leave Jones.  You do what's right for your clients.  Period.  I can do what I need to do with my clients at Jones.  You might do it differently, but not necessarily better. 

What did you do before Jones hired you that allows you to cast judgement on the kind of people Jones hires?  College grad with a degree in finance?  MCD's counter guy?  Business owner?  I'm sure you weren't a well qualified financial advisor with an existing book of business.  Maybe we should have hired the local homeless guy instead.   

I think the new guy in the office is!!  Not jumping to conclusions, but reading through your message.  You will NOT become who you would like to become by thinking outside the box…period.  Good luck and good SELLING.  Your a sales guy in a sales organization.  Jones could substitute stocks with vacuums and you homers wouldn’t miss a beat.  If your doing what you say…you’ll be sitting at your same office in 10 years watching others become GP’s…and you’ll be shaking your head…“I’ve done whats right for my clients, I thought thats all it took to move ahead at Jones”.  WRONG!!  You better get back into your box…bud.

If I remeber correctly, you stated you run call sessions.  All these outside the box ideas you have, did you mention these at the call sessions by chance.  We used to talk about WHATS WORKING .  You know...lets hear your sales pitch on the b of a bond we have in inventory.  Turn any of your fellow jonesies onto your out of the box investments?  THE ANSWER IS NO.  You would get blown out of the region with that type of talk.  NO THINKERS NEEDED HERE IN OUR CAMP.  Jim Jones.

You know, spears, I wonder how successful you and I would be if we stopped lobbing pot shots back and forth at each other and took that time to call a few more clients or prospects. 

I get it that you don't like Jones.  You feel you got lied to, you didn't think you had enough tools available to you to do a proper job with your clients, or the RL pissed you off, whatever.  There's something you don't like.  You say we're all salesmen who could also be selling vacuum cleaners.  Skolbrother says we need to download tools to do something different.  None of us can think for ourselves.  And Jones likes it that way. 

So here's what I'm thinking about while reading you bash Jones and Skol tell me I can't be a good advisor without some other tool I have to download.   I have access to the Morningstar X-ray program, SunGard's Financial Planning software, the Jones bar charts, Jones, S&P and Morningstar reports on stocks and funds in addition to anything available on the internet?  I can evaluate my clients retirement, education, business, and estate planning needs.  I can dig deep into their portfolio or keep it really simple for them.  I have access to stocks, bonds (munis, agencies, corporates, structured notes, treasuries, mortgage backed), funds (70+ familes are buy eligible including 8 preferred and 7 focus families), etfs, CDs, uits, life insurance, LTC insurance, mortgages,  SMAs through the MAP program, 401Ks, trust services, annuities (fixed and variable, A, B, and C share), and some others that I know I'm missing.  I can prospect by phone, in person door to door, through any networking group I choose, by mail, or virtually any other way I choose.  I can get my CFP and Jones will pay for it.  I can work whatever hours I need to get the work done I need to for my clients.  What am I missing other than a fee based platform that makes me an inferior broker to you or any other guy out there simply because I work for Jones?  Cause I'm looking at it wondering what else I should be working on with my clients. 

While I get a kick out of debating the virtues (or lack thereof) of Jones with you guys, I'll bet others are getting sick of it.  What do you say we all gang up on some other firm for a while.  I'll let you pick.  We can get off the Jones topics and on to something more worthwhile.  

My first thought was NO...but I will agree to move on.  I'm glad I decided to start my own practice, it's been the most fun I've had in years.  I was spending to much time on this forum anyway, and your right, always more clients to service and referrals to be called.  I enjoyed the sparring and I hope you win the diversification trip.  GOOD LUCK AND GOOD....well, you know!

Spiff- I assume you are doing a the best with what you have. However me debating what you do not have access to is like debating the virtues of the 3-4 defense with my 6 year old he simply has not been exposed to enough to understand advantages/disadvantages. My point simply was all the ex-Joneser biased or unbiased say the same thing: you do not have the tools available to you that I do. I am happy you feel you have everything you need. In all honesty as my friends at Jones will attest I miss the trips and a few other small things but I could not go back due to the lack of platforms or tools.

[quote=Spaceman Spiff]

While I get a kick out of debating the virtues (or lack thereof) of Jones with you guys, I'll bet others are getting sick of it.  What do you say we all gang up on some other firm for a while.  I'll let you pick.  We can get off the Jones topics and on to something more worthwhile.  [/quote]

That's just crazy talk .  They would have to shut this site down for lack of use if we got off the Jones thing.