Edward Jones' Incentive Trips
I've heard Edward Jones FA's have the opportunity to go to some pretty cool places on their incentive trips. I'm just curiouse about where some of the coming up places are and what the trips have been like in the past. Is it realistic for a first year FA to qualify for the trips?
Thanks!Europe, Bahamas, Germany, Rome, just to name a few…and yes your first year is the easiest to qualify.
It gets easier to qualify as your production grows…
It was always great when the newbies made the trip because of bonus points and all of the 10 year drones were asking him what he was doing to be so uber-successful in his first year!
I remember my first trip, i was the only one that had less than 5 yrs experience who won a trip starting from scratch, everyone else walked into a 30-50 million dollar office. Those pikers actually acted like they earned something…Oh well, good memories…
Are you free to do what you want on those trips, or does the company have events everyday that you’re expected to attend?
You are never free unless you are independent.
Sorry Spiff. I couldn't resist... At Jones, especially your first trip, you are expected to make the meetings. To be fair, there aren't many meetings, almost always in the morning. And if you get a smart GP, they make it as short as possible (as long as they satisfy all the rules). I will say that the trips are one of the few things I do miss. I am happy to report though, that with the help of a travel professional. I am taking 9 people to Hawaii to celebrate our first indy diversifcation trip. It costs a bit more, and because I am seeing a client over there, much of the trip will be deductible according to my CPA. A big difference there, because the trips are taxed at 50%!!!!Make sure you save enough money for the taxes they charge you with. My hit on the paycheck was $800 per month for the next 3 months. There after I referred to them as disincentive trips. You take a week off, lose the production, you pipeline is down, and they charge you for the trip on your pay check for the next 3 months. What a rip off.
In your first two years, you receive some bonus points to help you win the trip. I wouldn’t call it easy, but the first two years may be easier than the two following. Other trips have included the indy 500, NCAA final four, Mercedes golf tournament and the US Open tennis tournament. There are always trips to Europe, the beach and Disney. There is only one meeting to attend and it is done before lunch.
The trips are great. Yes, the taxes hit your paycheck and you take a week out of production, but so would a regular vacation. I think the second contest is the easiest one to hit. You still have some bonus points, but a few months of ramping up your pipeline to get things going.
The trips for this period are: New York, NY - Christmas shopping trip w/$700 shopping allowance. Daytona 500 St. Thomas, USVI Cruise Barbados Cruise Maui Sorrento, Italy Orlando, FL - Disney trip where you stay at Disney and they give you Park Hopper Passes Kauai Beijing, China Borneo, Malaysia Deauville/Normandy & Paris, France - Think D-Day invasion trip for a history buff Nuevo Vallarta, Mexico Breckenridge, CO - Ski Trip Chile & Argentina Malta St. Kitts, USVI Berlin, Germany In addition to just getting to go on the trip they also have breakfast and dinner allowances (cash they hand you), two planned dinners with the group, and typically some other things they throw in. You can choose to participate with the group or not. Nobody takes roll, except for the morning meeting the first full day you are there. Credit Onion calls them a rip off. He's evidently not priced a fancy vacation like the Jones trips. My first trip was to Lake Como, Italy. I checked into extending it a day on the front and back. It would have cost me $500 a night to stay over at the . So, 6 nights of that would have cost me $3000, plus airfare, plus meals, plus stuff I bought, plus the time and trouble of planning it all and worrying about it. I think they are a great deal, even if they do hit your paycheck for taxes. But the Onion probably thought the profitability bonuses were a rip off too because they taxed them at the same rate. noggin - ALL of them took over $30-50 million? Really? You had conversations with them in depth enough to find out all of their backgrounds and how much of a book they took over? Congrats on winning yourself, but c'mon.[quote=Spaceman Spiff]
The trips are great. Yes, the taxes hit your paycheck and you take a week out of production, but so would a regular vacation.
[/quote] This is one of those issues that Jones calls a point of compensation, but eventually you realize that it is not really compensation because as Spff says, they are really just a vacation that you pay for. I too admit they were nice, and you are getting a great discount bottom line compared to taking your own trip, but they are hardly "free" as you think they are early on. If calculating the net net to bottom line, two $4000 trips= $8000-2600 taxes = 5400. Equal to about 2% of a 250k producer, 1% of a 540k producer. They are what they are.They’re still better than anything I’ve heard of in the rest of the industry. Most firms have something similar for top producers, but you are talking about the top 5% of that saleforce. The little guy like Noggin (again, good job) wouldn’t have a chance to go. And it’s not really a contest. So if you work for ML and there’s a production contest for the top 50 producers and you’re #51, you’re out of luck. Not at Jones.
Jones breaks down the trip taxes for anyone who wants to read the book. Their math is as follows: $5500 trip value - $1375 Fed taxes - $420 FICA - $165 State = $3540 So here's where the glass is either half empty or half full. If you are the half empty guy, Jones just screwed you out of $1960, but you got to go to Lake Como, Italy. If your glass is half full, Jones just gave you a $3540 bonus which you traded for a trip to Lake Como, Italy. Either way, you still went to Lake Como, Italy. I would say that this falls in line with some of the other discussions we've been having about Jones and perceptions. They never advertise the trips as free trips. If you get the book and choose not to read the rules, you might get suprised when your paycheck is $653 lighter than you expected that first month. But then shame on you for not reading the rules. Jones isn't trying to hide anything. People are just lazy.Spiff I’ll agree with everything you said. It’s mis-perceptions.
Make sure you save enough money for the taxes they charge you with. My hit on the paycheck was $800 per month for the next 3 months. There after I referred to them as disincentive trips. You take a week off, lose the production, you pipeline is down, and they charge you for the trip on your pay check for the next 3 months. What a rip off.
God forbid they "rip" you off for deducting federally mandated taxes.
I could be wrong, because I have yet to go on one, but from my limited accounting knowledge, a self paid vacation would be funded with after tax dollars. With diversification trips, you are being taxed for a trip you never paid for yet is still considered revenue by the IRS. The additional benefit of having to only pay the taxed portion of the trip, is that you use future PRE-tax dollars to pay your federal obligation for the trip.
Does this sound about right?
Back to the original question about how hard is it to qualify as a first yr rep.
Well, I started my office from scratch in the big city in the early 90's, I finally qualified in my 3rd yr. So we took 2 trips a yr for the rest of the 90's. But since Jones called them "Diversification" trips, besides the Mutual Funds & Annuities sales, which was 90+ percentage of my business, I had to sell my clients Margin, fixed income, insurance, etc... stuff which I wasn't too sure were appropriate for some of my clients, to hit 6 or so goals in order to qualify. The trips were very nice. Great locations, great hotels, great networking w/ other Jones IR's. Everything's wonderful, until the tax hit over the next 3 months. In the 90's, it varied from $500 - $600 per month for next 3 months. Guess it's up to $800 a month now. Jones valued the trips anywhere from $5000 - $7000 for 2 travelers. Not about you guys, but I'm in the Chairman's Club at LPL now, & when we have to pay for the trips ourselves, we still don't ever spend even half that much for a family of 4. We've just booked for an All-Inclusive resort in Cancun, airfare included, for us 4 this summer for under $2000. And another trip to Hawaii for less than $3000. All tax-deductible, & no taxes due to the firm afterwards. LPL also have the Master's trips (to Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Phoenix, & Hawaii for next yr) for 2 people, no taxes due afterwards. We love the Jones trips, but for a young IR to pony up the taxes for 3 months afterwards sorta hurts. One yr, we just took the money, around $1600, instead of the Jones trip for 2, & booked a cruise for our family of 4 instead. With money left over, & no taxes due afterwards....If you just take the money though, how’s it taxed? I think I’ve heard now the money option is $2,000. How much of that would be take home?
If you just take the money though, how’s it taxed? I think I’ve heard now the money option is $2,000. How much of that would be take home?
That depends on your personal (or household) federal and state tax brackets.
After doing some research, you also have the option of reporting the trip yourself on your personal tax return but must notify EDJ that you are doing this.
My first trip was a SuperTrip to Greek Isles Cruise. I was a new to the industry and new to my territory(nothing given to me). I made every trip and my wife and I loved the trips.
Brazil, Germany, Paris, Maui, Tahiti, New Zealand, Monaco, Japan, etc.
The one thing I didn't like is the organized stuff...My wife and I decided after our trip to Paris, that if it entailed any group activity we would not go...That's when we really started to enjoy ourselves. I also started to pre-extend our trips and get our own flight reservations. That's when it became really fun. I could find better flight times on my frequent flyer airline and cheaper. I was always amazed by that.
All in all, it was a great experience, but at LPL they pay all my expenses and I don't get taxed. Much more of a meeting but I don't have to go to anything if I don't want. No GP's taking notes in the back of the room.
Back in the good old days you actually got more points for selling some fund families over others. That was great. And I am sure all of the new disclosure requirements are being followed to the letter. I remember when they sent us the memo saying we had to read this lengthy disclosure to clients. Something along the lines of ‘I may be recommending these investments so I can win a trip, I may get a bonus just because you open an account, everything I am telling you is hinging upon a conflict of interest.’ Does anyone have copy of that fun full page disclosure the EDJ folks are supposed to be reading to the client before opening an account, I wish I kept that one for the hallway of shame.
[quote=Spaceman Spiff]
The trips are great. Yes, the taxes hit your paycheck and you take a week out of production, but so would a regular vacation. I think the second contest is the easiest one to hit. You still have some bonus points, but a few months of ramping up your pipeline to get things going.
The trips for this period are: New York, NY - Christmas shopping trip w/$700 shopping allowance. Daytona 500 St. Thomas, USVI Cruise Barbados Cruise Maui Sorrento, Italy Orlando, FL - Disney trip where you stay at Disney and they give you Park Hopper Passes Kauai Beijing, China Borneo, Malaysia Deauville/Normandy & Paris, France - Think D-Day invasion trip for a history buff Nuevo Vallarta, Mexico Breckenridge, CO - Ski Trip Chile & Argentina Malta St. Kitts, USVI Berlin, Germany In addition to just getting to go on the trip they also have breakfast and dinner allowances (cash they hand you), two planned dinners with the group, and typically some other things they throw in. You can choose to participate with the group or not. Nobody takes roll, except for the morning meeting the first full day you are there. Credit Onion calls them a rip off. He's evidently not priced a fancy vacation like the Jones trips. My first trip was to Lake Como, Italy. I checked into extending it a day on the front and back. It would have cost me $500 a night to stay over at the . So, 6 nights of that would have cost me $3000, plus airfare, plus meals, plus stuff I bought, plus the time and trouble of planning it all and worrying about it. I think they are a great deal, even if they do hit your paycheck for taxes. But the Onion probably thought the profitability bonuses were a rip off too because they taxed them at the same rate. noggin - ALL of them took over $30-50 million? Really? You had conversations with them in depth enough to find out all of their backgrounds and how much of a book they took over? Congrats on winning yourself, but c'mon. [/quote] Actually that is the truth. We went to Bejing for our first trip and there was not anyone out lee than 5 years with the exception of my self that didn't take over at least 30M. How do I know, well I talked to everyone on the trip. My week may have been the exception but it is the truth. My wife said the thing she would miss most are the trips and in all seriousness the trips are topnotch. The taxation hurts but the trips are compensation plain and simple. We stayed at the St Regis in Bejing and by far the nicest hotel I have ever stayed at.....Let me clear up a couple misconceptions that I am noticing.....
First, the trip is valued at what EDJ spends on your trip. They withhold 30% federal tax, but get money back if you fall in a lower tax bracket when you file for the year. I don't pay FICA because I max that out in around 3 months.
Second, if you buy the airline tickets yourself, Jones reimburses you, and doesn't tax that portion of the trip.
Third, Jones gets a HUGE economy of scale discount on all the trips, otherwise they won't book it. I've been on around 20 trips, and to book the trip yourself would average around double if you tried to do it on your own.
Fourth, for some reason I don't think WestH's trip for 4 for $2000 to Cancun quite measures up to a week in the Four Seasons in Costa Rica or 8 days in the Grande Hotel Timeo on the Sicilian Coast.
Rank:
Let's see: Jones withhold 30% of what they think is the "comparable market value" of what they think your trip might be worth, meanwhile they're getting a "HUGE economy of scale discount". For $2400 in taxes that you pay afterwards ($800 x 3 months), that's 30% taxes paid on an $8000 trip for 2 people. Do you really think Jones actually paid $8000 for your trip? & Did Jones actually gave you a "HUGE economy of scale discount" on your $2400 worth of taxes? How many of us here, if it's your own money, will actually go & book an $8000 trip for 2? & do you actually stay a full 7 day week at the Four Seasons? & is the 8 days on the Sicilian Coast actually a SuperTrip (combine 2 trips into one SuperTrip)? We've actually priced the exact same trip iteniaries as the Jones trip & we're nowhere near the "....and to book the trip yourself would average around double if you tried to do it on your own. "Then you really have to be an idiot to spend $16,000 for a trip for 2.... So OK, I took you up on it: http://www.fourseasons.com/costarica/rates_and_availability.html?in_day_of_week=+Sat&IN_MONTH=200809&IN_DAY=06&number_of_nights=6&out_day_of_week=+Fri&OUT_MONTH=200809&OUT_DAY=12&rooms=1&adults=2&children=0&adults_2=2&children_2=0&adults_3=2&children_3=0&adults_4=2&children_4=0&segment=basics&PropertyID=69&package_id=&short_url=&package_type=&acronym_offsite_check_availability= At the Four Seasons Costa Rica at $445 per night for 6 nights, w/ the "Stay Longer, 5th night free" promo = $2225 Airfare to Costa Rica from gateway cities of Houston, Miami, or LAX, $500 times 2 is $1000. Add in hotel taxes, food, & other incidentals, your trip will still be under $4000. No meetings to attend. No taxes due afterwards. OK, you may spend more or less on your trip depends on where & how far in Podunk you live away from the major gateway cities. But you still don't come up to "...average around double if you tried to do it on your own. "
Guess what? I just did it on my own in less than 10 minutes! Amazing, the internet! Guess again that I'm lucky to live in a major gateway city & a quick 4 day weekend trip w/ my family of 4 on a chartered package sale to Cancun on the weekend of summer vacation for less than $2000 in an all-inclusive hotel (although not as good as the Four Seasons). Again, it's a trip for a FAMILY of 4.......PRICELESS... (And no taxes afterwards....)
[quote=WestH]
[/quote]
You have already paid taxes on this money.
Rank-
One other small issue you omitted... The link between Maritz and EDJ GP's. It's there you just have to dig a little... Just a small wager between us that somewhere along the way Jones is getting something in return for using Martiz all these years. Makes you wonder. They do it with everything else they touch their hands on, why not recieve other compensation from vendors like Maritz. Check the fine print, its in there somewhere.... I would bet on it. Spiff, are the GP's exempt from sharing this revenue????How many gazillions a year do they pay Maritz for these first class trips? Maybe a GP's wife is a director. By the way, as an employee, why are you required to pay for the toilet paper? Or does this fall under the category of a reimbursable expense under the new plan.[quote=footsoldier] Rank-
One other small issue you omitted… The link between Maritz and EDJ GP’s. It’s there you just have to dig a little…
Just a small wager between us that somewhere along the way Jones is getting something in return for using Martiz all these years. Makes you wonder. They do it with everything else they touch their hands on, why not recieve other compensation from vendors like Maritz. Check the fine print, its in there somewhere… I would bet on it. Spiff, are the GP’s exempt from sharing this revenue???How many gazillions a year do they pay Maritz for these first class trips? Maybe a GP’s wife is a director.
By the way, as an employee, why are you required to pay for the toilet paper? Or does this fall under the category of a reimbursable expense under the new plan.[/quote]
My last two flights booked by Edward jones was done through Carlson Wagonlit.
Yes, there is a link between EDJ and Maritz. I’m not sure what it is, but it’s obviously there. They do the diversification trips and all of the regional meetings. They also book a lot of the flights and hotels for trainings classes and other misc stuff. Jones probably gets something in return. That’s the way it works.
I just wasted some time on Expedia to try to book a trip like the Kauai trip in this contest period. Same hotel for the same amount of time. That trip includes a mid sized rental car. Through Expedia that trip costs me $6847. Now, add food and incedentals to that and you're easily over $7000. If I spend more than 3 minutes can I get a cheaper deal? Probably. Now, if I do my job well and earn the trip through Jones, I'll pay about $1400 in taxes to go. They will feed me breakfast every day (7 meals for two @ $25 = $175). They have two nights of planned dinners at no extra cost to me (2 meals for two at $50 = $100). There are three "dine around evenings" which means they hand you CASH to go out to dinner with (3 meals for two @ $50 = $150) . Plus they have a family activity planned ($100). How much of it do I have to plan? ZIPPO. Sorry, I made a mistake. I have to spend some time picking between the 17 different destinations and I have to register. Beyond that, I spend zero time worrying about where to go on vaction this year. So, WestH, you go right ahead and spend your $4000 on your trip to wherever. I'll take my extra $2600 and put it in my kid's college fund. And I won't care for a second if Jones gets a kickback from Maritz or not.Read my tagline…
You know, spears, you really should stop looking in the mirror so often. It really makes you look vain.
I was just mimicking Weddle…ITs a bogus incentive, that you get charged for. It’s on the edge of unethical…do you tell your clients when your selling them a 25 year bond about your trip incentive or your growth and income mutual fund??
Maybe I’m just ignorant on the process, but how in the hell is a tax withholding in any way bogus, unethical, or a profit motive on the part of a company? They pay their own taxes on your total income as well am I right?
Is it bogus for them to withhold child support garnishments just because an employee thinks it is too much?
When a Mary Kay(or whoever) awards a saleslady one of their coveted pink cadillacs she has to pay tax, title, and license. Is that unethical?
Thats a new one…Jones being compared to the Mary Kay ladies…YAHOOOOO…you made my point…
I am comparing the tax obligations of two different revenue items recognized by the IRS. Are you really that glib? Or just dense?
Maybe you should 'spear’head a class action suit against Wal-Mart for it’s use of sales tax to scam it’s customers.
For your sake, you better hope your self-quoted tagline is not true.
oooohhh...another piker in line to get slammed. Why do you consistently ask dumbass questions? I don't get your dumbass remarks. Are you even in the industry. I was commenting on the batter with Spiff on the sales trips. It has to be shown as revenue to the IR..so yes they will pay taxes on it. I never questioned this you dumbass. Are you at Jones? Do you understand the sales trip setup? Please, re-read my tagline.
[quote=bspears] ITs a bogus incentive, that you get charged for. It’s on the edge of unethical…
I wholeheartedly apologize for misconstruing your opinion of the tax withholdings as being bogus and unethical, it was so stupid of me.
The remark was based on the trips themselves, not the taxes.
This is a great discussion.
Is it unethical to create categories and tell brokers that they must put a certain amount of money in certain categories, or sell certain products to earn a trip? If you do what's right for your clients 100% of the time, meet or exceed the expectations of your firm, but don't sell enough of certain types of investments and thus don't win a trip, are you being treated unfairly? These contests have presented me with situations where I've really had to do some soul-searching. An advisor who's on the brink of getting a trip with a prospect sitting in front of them holding a check in their hand that could put them over the top for the trip can really create a dangerous conflict-of-interest situation. I've heard of some very creative (and criminal) ways to invest the money to get the credit and then move it to the asset class that the client was told they would be buying into, etc. I never cease to be amazed at how shrewd people can be when there's a carrot hanging in front of their faces. A few months after I'd started here, I heard my wife telling her parents and some friends that they needed to get a credit card and open a CFO so we could go on a trip. I've never felt cheaper (or filthier) in my life. (Had my life deteriorated to the point that I was going to be selling credit cards, and other things people don't need?) Her motive was pure--the trips were all she'd heard about from the local FAs' wives--but as you can imagine, I put a stop to her "sales pitch" very quickly. I was in a class a while back where a very successful new FA told us that he's been successful selling credit cards by having his BOA call and tell the clients that she gets $10 for every card she sells and the FA gets a chance to go on a great trip. You can imagine the look of horror that was on the ATL's face as he uttered, "Nooooooooooooooooooooo!"I think that's going to be my biggest problem, pushing credit cards. For most people it's a horrible thing to have. You're giving people the opportunity to play with fire. It would be completely different if you could push debit cards for money market accounts or something like that. Do you think that'll ever be an option rather than credit cards?
And it seems like any question of ethics could be eliminated if they just based the trips on your level of production. Think they'll ever make that change?It’s really all about what you want. I’m at Jones (counting the days) and although I’ve qualified for the last four trips, my wife and I took the cash on all of them. Why?
We pretty much hate Jones people. Sometimes I have to include myself in that as I open my office door. I’ve seen it remarked time and again on here about Jones being a cult - and the only thing missing are women wearing dresses from the sixties and men pulling their pants up around their chest.
But I digress. I was talking about preference. The places Jones has you going are awesome! And the deal is sweet, even if you pay the taxes.
My wife and I prefer to plan our own trips, and we go about once a quarter for two weeks. For instance, in March we sailed from Ft. Lauderdale to Key West - just the two of us. January we took a ski trip to Germany - before that in September we spent three weeks in Austrailia - dined at the Sydney Opera House; trekked to the outback; white water rafted in Cairns and dove along the great barrier reef (near Cairns - not the best diving, but still beautiful).
The year before that we went to Chamonix to climb Mt Blanc. This July we’re going to Paris for three days on our way to two weeks in Greece (Athens & Santorini).
And if you plan well enough, you can get it pretty cheap, take the money that Jones gave you and enjoy your trip even more. And guess what? No Jones people, no meetings and no making my wife nauseous.
So you're taking 2 months of vacation time each year? Do your clients or any of the management ever comment on that? That would be nice but I'd imagine it takes a big hit on your production.we go about once a quarter for two weeks…
Similar stories when I was at EDJ, another IR would tell clients to write a check to themselves to take out margin, then pay it off the same day by mailing him back a check. I don't know how he told people to do that, but he was 'honest', he told them this was just so he could win a trip. Any harm done? Questionable, but there were several other reasons why that whole trip thing disturbed me. Was a time when the matrix was favorable for selling some fund families over others. Hey anyone at jones, do you guys still get SPIF's for selling low rated high yield bonds the last few days of the pay cycle?
It’s all about planning - I work at Jones and really as long as your producing and you go to their “required” meetings (summer regional, etc.) you can leave when you want. I’m probably not producing what I could be, but when I’m at work, I don’t spend my time reading the registered rep forums:). I bust my ass and work my tail off.
My clients comment on it occasionally - but I make sure I give them enough TLC before I leave that it’s never negative. Plus, I’ve built my book on former and current military families that live around the world. Only a small percentage of my clients even live in the state I live in. The important ones have my phone number - and some of the places we’ve gone (Germany, Austrailia) they are stationed.
Pushing credit cards was a problem for me also, but to make the matter worse, I then found out that Jones sells MBIA or whoever the current card issuer is, my client information. They then solicted my clients and I was out of the loop, but I was expected to service these card by assisting the client with any issues they had. No compensation except maybe a P&L credit(not sure about that) which was no value to a new broker.
So do you think they might switch or at least add Debit Cards to that list? I’d feel much better recommending a client get a debit card for access to his or her cash in a money market than I would recommending they get a credit card, knowing it’s a tool for accumulating debt rather than wealth (not good financial advice from a FA it seems).
It has only been very recent that EDJ allowed reps to be called FA’s. That is because they aren’t really FA’s. They are IR’s, and that was a strategic legal issue, as an IR you are operating under a buyer beware situation. Putting yourself out as an FA creates the potential to be seen as a Fiduciary, that is something EDJ is scared of. So don’t worry about giving good or bad advice as an FA, you really are an IR in their cataract covered eyes.
I think Jones perspective with the credit card is that everybody has one, why not a Jones one? The fact of the matter is it’s not that great of a card.
I had a client get turned down for one the other day. He has about $1mil in liquid assets and they turned him down because he hasn’t used a credit card in 20 years. And Jones was less than helpful getting it for him.
Anyway, that’s their story and they are sticking to it - "everybody uses a credit card - it should be an Edward Jones cc - and diversification points for you and a benefit for your BOA, wow!"
Sounds unethical to me.
Magician, that is a very good point, I had the same thing happen to me, and almost lost a good client. I spent alot of time in phone calls to resolve the situation, and all of it was for no measurable gain for me. Odds are better of losing a client, than geting or keeping one when credit cards are involved. It is obvious why they push them, but as far as I was concerned they shuold be available and not be pushed. When I was there they even printed an application with every new account. The most serious issue I had was the direct mail solititation after I told the client that their info was private. Of course they got around that by disclosing on the account agreement that vendors may have access. Most people assumed that it was necessary vendors such as record keeping etc.
Is it possible to go on the trip without ever pushing a credit card on anyone? Can you make up for not doing that by doing more or something else?
I’ve got one better.
Some guy actually says when he opens a new account, “Your Edward Jones account comes with a credit card” and when he’s filling out the app, he gets the maiden name.
Not sure on the ethics of that one either.
[quote=IsOldSpiceRightForMe]Is it possible to go on the trip without ever pushing a credit card on anyone? Can you make up for not doing that by doing more or something else?[/quote]Yes you can…all you have to do is hit four categories…Taxable Income, Non-Taxable Income, Growth & Income, Growth, Aggressive, CFO, or Credit Cards. Successful FAs dont have to worry about hitting the categories because their production is high enough and diversified enough to hit at least 5 with out credit cards.
I think its funny how everyone is crying about offering Credit Cards…no one is putting a gun to your head saying you have to sell them or your out plus the requirement to hit the “trip” category is like 2-3 a month, big deal. And believe it or not credit cards can be a good way to get a 30 interest free loan. If your a good advisor you should be able to explain this to a client. And its only unethical if you dont disclose the card details. If your pushing through applications without informing the client thats a whole different ball of wax.
LPL’s qualification for their annual Master’s trip for last yr is $450K. They don’t care if it’s 100% Growth, or G&I, or insurance or fee based, or all stock. They don’t care, just gross over $450. Just don’t push “Aggressive” to your 70 yr old clients just to qualify for a trip.
I remember back in the 90's, I had to figure a way to sell $___ of fixed income or loans or whatever in order to qualify for a trip. Magician: If you were w/ LPL, you could still take those trips to Germany, Australia, or whereever, & as a REAL business owner (1099), you could deduct most of the trip as a business expense, since you're seeing your clients while traveling there. Not sure you can do that as a W-2 employee at Jones.WestH - that’s why my time with Jones is short. Not just because of the trips, but for a lot of the other reasons people have re-hashed on here. Great place to start… yadda yadda… kool-aid…stupid meetings… taking all of my production and not getting much back…not being an actual business owner…
I spoke with my accountant though, and she told me that lift tickets are non-deductible
I'm glad I'm not the only voice on here as more and more and more and more Jones people open their eyes....makes me feel good. Magician, I thought my wife and I took some great trips..but woooww.......WAGES WILL MAKE YOU A LIVING....PROFITS WILL MAKE YOU A FORTUNE....GO INDY....
Funny that all of you people who are mouthing off about “pushing” credit cards and “pushing” aggressive to 70 year old clients had to worry about things like that. If you just simply DO YOUR JOB you don’t really have to worry about the categories that much.
The way it works in my office is pretty simple. Clients have 3 basic parts to their portfolio - Income, Growth and Income, Growth (which may or may not mean aggressive growth). Just by doing what I normally do I'll qualify for 3 categories without even thinking about it. I usually hit the non taxable income pretty easily too. Munis, fixed annuities (a rare thing for me), some balanced funds, portions of my VA business all hit that category. If you are doing any LTC or LI biz that category is pretty easy to hit too. So, you never really have to worry about pushing credit cards or the CFO or even hiring someone to fill the categories. Just do what you are supposed to. Spears, what's the fundamental difference between the LPL trips (gotta do $450K to qualify) and the Jones trips? What makes the Jones trips a bogus incentive and not the LPL trips? Perhaps I'm missing something that I need clarification on.When you force someone to sell something (category) to win something(trip), it causes conflict. Hey, get off my ass…this thread has been hijacked by Jones people…
Sorry. You made the comment. I’ve never felt forced to sell anything at Jones, but maybe that’s just me.
And CIB hijacked the thread. Not Jones people.He’s right.
The thread was a question directed at Jones people, if it's been hijacked by anybody it's been hijacked by the "Jone's haters."this thread has been hijacked by Jones people…
Okay…you’re right…damn the jones hater’s…You never did answer my question about telling your clients about the investments you sell them filling a category for the trip…well…don’t you think they should know…just like revenue sharing…that this particular investment not only pays you in the rears…it also qualifies me in winning a trip for my family and I to go on…that you, dear client, get to pay for…and, of course, this doesn’t persuade me in anyway to my recommendations…cause see…I have this wonderful bar chart that shows you need some of this anyways…
I see what you’re saying, but unless a FA puts a client into something just to qualify for a trip when there’s a better option for the client available, I don’t think there’s any issue.
Would it really be any different than you saying, "Client, thank you for your business, a fraction of the money you've given me is going to be used to pay my mortgage, take my wife out to dinner, and by tickets to the game next week."
I would wager to guess that the vast majority of advisors make no consideration of “categories” when investing money. Yes, there are the knuckleheads out there (as there are at every firm that do knucklehead things for other reasons) that base decisions on trips or whatever. But I have never actually heard a discussion about it among people I have talked to at Jones. Again, I know it happens, but you guys seem to paint with a rather broad brush.
And although I think the CC category is a little lame, we are a financial services firm. We are a for-profit business, that is in the business of providing financial services. As such, like a bank or other B/D, it is our job to sell financial services and products. Incenting us to do it should not be seen as unethical. That's how the industry works. All of us are "incented" to sell investments. Is that any less "ethical" than providing a financial service?? I for one never "sell" credit cards. I have about 10 cards in my branch - I always mention it, but most of my clients already have credit cards that suit their needs, thus don't need another. I do utilize CFO accounts for several people, as they can be cost effective and take the "pain" out of charging for various services. But to me it only makes sense if they have a real need for multiple services (IRA's, bill pay, div reinvest, etc.). So I guess the categories leave a little to be desired for the contests. But I think Jones' intentions are in the right place. If they weren't, they would just base it on production and be done with it. It is just one small way of encouraging diversification. I also don't think the trips should be listed as "compensation", but rather as a "benefit". I think the perception would improve. But nobody can argue that theay are great trips that you basically go on for a discount (the cost of taxes). But Jones certainly doesn't try to "hide" the taxes anywhere. Everyone is fully aware if it.And........that's all I have to say about that.
Not that I have a mortgage, but I seriously can’t see the comparison, spicey. Whenever you have something (preferred funds, categories) tied to a gift (revenue sharing, trip) you cause an uneeded conflict. Yes, you can all say…"we don’t look at the trip categories…if I win great…if I don’t oh well…I only use the best funds and if they happen to be in the preferreds,great…but THEY (management) have these for a reason…and its not about financial planning for the client…
Superior performance is rewarded in many ways, one of which is through incentive trips. Trips are awarded when you succeed in meeting the long-term goals of your clients through diversification of their assets. There are two opportunities to earn trips each year. You also may combine the two into one “Super Trip.” Destinations include top-notch resorts in places such as Hawaii, Switzerland, the Caribbean, Africa and Paris, to name just a few. All trips include spouses and many welcome families, too.
All Financial Advisors who meet the criteria earn a trip. There is no limit on the number of Financial Advisors who can participate. We’re proud to say that, typically, more than half of our Advisors qualify for each trip. Trip value typically ranges from $4,500 to $6,000 for two people or $10,000 for a “Super Trip.” Please note that all trips are taxable. To qualify, all you have to do is gross $135,000 in six months." Now it's an "Incentive travel trip" It's also a recruiting tool: http://careers.edwardjones.com/us/fa/ExperiencedFinancialAdvisors/AreWeRightForYou/MeetOurPeople/jWEB_004061.html "Believe it or not, one of the vets used to send my husband diversification trip brochures to show him where we could be going if I worked at Edward Jones." Check out SEC's view: http://www.sec.gov/litigation/admin/33-8520.ht 15. Edward Jones further offers "diversification contest" trips to its IRs two times each year. During these contests, the IRs can qualify for a trip by earning points based on, among other things, their sales of mutual funds. Once an IR earns a specific number of points, the IR "wins" a trip. Although the IRs generally can earn contest points for selling any mutual funds or other investment product, for a ninety-day period in the fall of 2002, Edward Jones only gave mutual fund contest points for the sale of a subset of mutual funds from the Preferred Families. One or more of the Preferred Families always participate in the sponsorship of the diversification trips and make one short training presentation for the IRs during each trip. Sponsorship of these trips and other meetings provide the Preferred Families with exclusive access to and visibility with the IRs. Can you say: Pay to Play?
WestH-
I agree with 100%. You mis-read my post. I said (or meant to say), that I think they SHOULD consider them benefits, not compensation. My point was that I don't like how they position them as part of our compensation.It does make one wonder why Jones hasn’t changed it to a revenue only contest. At least then, it would remove any appearance of conflict. I have to agree with Spears on this issue.
Spiff- You are smarter than the average Jones rep. (That's why some of us think your headed out.) You remind me of me. I was a staunch supporter of the firm until something inside caused me to question management. Soon I was conflicted representing a firm because I did not believe in their ethics. Ultimately the pain of staying was worse than going through the pain of transition. Please, please don't label this response as another disgruntled FA who offers frequent diatribes about how great indy is and how crappy working for Jones was. Jones is a great place to start, learn the biz, and how to run a biz. I am sure if it weren't for the training I received at Jones, the transition would have been much more challenging when I left to go indy. Your time is coming. It's just a matter of when not if...Jones hasn't changed it because they want to encourage diversification. It's a reward for doing what is right.
WestH - I love the SEC example. Way to pull something so far out of Jones history that it's not even relevant anymore. Jones did something for half of a diversification contest period and changed it. Quickly.
You've been gone from Jones so long that most of your examples of things you don't like about Jones aren't relevant anymore. I've told others that if you haven't been at Jones in the last 2 years, you really don't know what you are talking about anymore.
foot - I love working for Jones. If management changes or goes a direction that I'm not comfortable, I'm going to see if Joe has an empty room in his new office. But until then I'm sticking. If I were a cowboy they'd say I was loyal to the brand.Spiff:
You're exactly right. I have left Jones a long time ago, exactly 9 yrs ago in 2 wks. My Independence day was June 4th. Spent 7 yrs w/ Jones, & would like to thank them for the all they've done to get my career off the ground. I also spent 4 yrs in college & also served 9 yrs as a military officer before Jones. Although none of those org are perfect in any way, I still love the fact that they all have a profound impact on my daily life today. That I still live the high standards & morals they instill in me. But that doesn't mean I don't have an opinion either way, good or bad, just because I've left them more than 2 yrs ago. Still very involved in those collegiate & veteran organizations locally. I can see the massive amount of change that our educational system & the military are going through over the years. But besides adding the fee-based platform, how/what has really changed at Jones in the past 2 yrs? & Is it change for the better or worse? Let's see, I was the very first Jones IR to move over to LPL Independent channel in our city 9 yrs ago. Today there's over 30 ex-Jones guys over at LPL just inside our city limits. How many LPL reps left to join Jones? Zero.[quote=WestH]Spiff:
...Let's see, I was the very first Jones IR to move over to LPL Independent channel in our city 9 yrs ago. Today there's over 30 ex-Jones guys over at LPL just inside our city limits. How many LPL reps left to join Jones? Zero. [/quote] It's just a matter of time. They'll see the light one of these days.Technology, management, mindset, investment options - you name it, it has changed. For the better. Still not perfect, but then what firm or situation is?
I wouldn't expect anyone from LPL or RJ to leave that setup and go back to being a w-2 employee. The change in thinking would probably make your head explode. You have a right to your opinion, but you have formed that opinion based on information that was valid in 1999. It's like talking about the Rams and saying they're a great football team since they won the Super Bowl in 2000. Sure, football is basically the same game, but the Rams/Sheep sucked last year.Don't kid yourselves, there are tons of IR's who when the contest period is nearing an end sell certain categories to get their trip. This is a FACT.
It is a conflict of interest however you look at it, and it affects some clients portfolios.Still wondering, does EDJ still offer sales incentives in the form of a higher commission for selling certain bonds at the end of the commission cycle? I remember seeing low rated bonds with higher than normal commission in the last 2 or 3 days of the cycle, they would sell really fast. Amazingly they were the same bonds in inventory all month at a lower commission, and nobody would sell it. Can anyone comment on whether or not this is still a practice followed at Jones?
About the bonds, been gone for 18 months so could be different:
New brokers got access to a NEWIR inventory back then that had a higher payout and they would reserve a pile of them for the rookies for call nights, can sell dates etc. Otherwise there really wasnt much of a variance. Jones had a basic chart that said this much markup for this size and or this maturity date.
The biggest mistake about the bond inventory is the markup and selling the new issue bond. When you sell they price you first to their own internal inventory with a markup and they will price outside of Jones if you request it. If you are a Joneser you are better off calling the bond desk and asking them to do some lite shopping for you. The bond you sold last quarter with a 3 point markup as a new issue can be had for a lot less. Your GP’s wont like it because its unconventional and they want to move their own bonds they helped underwrite and/or participated in first to maximize profits that you really dont see to your P&L but do see as a partner.
One side note, if you sell a lot of bonds as a Joneser you will be eating your lunch when rates rise a few years from now and you have to explain those lower auction values. But if you are a good joneser you will take advantage of that to sell them and make 1 and then put them into your new mutual fund fee platform.
Spiff:
At least we both have a warped sense of humor. But what has really changed about Jones' incentive, oops I mean diversification, trip over the past 2 yrs vs. 10 yrs ago? (besides trip location choices)WestH,
Need I remind you only 1/2 of LPL brokers even GROSS 100k? Your comparing apples and oranges. Also, your previous post mentioned a taxable amount for a trip of $8000, where did you go to get a Jones taxable equivalent that high? Most of mine are from $4500-5500. Your cost for a flight to Costa Rica was $500, mine would be twice that. Don't forget about the free dinners, coctails, happy hours, and cash they usually kick in as well. There is no way you could set up the same trip for the same price they tax you on. Sorry, you are wrong on this one. Of the 30 brokers that switched to LPL, I would venture a guess that all but one or two were either fired or below Seg 4 when they switched. There is a reason the median production at LPL is 100k, the same amount I did my second year at Jones. After you pay boh sides of FICA, E&O insurance, an office assistant and her and your family's health insurance, 10% ticket charges, 10% affilliation fee, office rent, postage, software, telephone, marketing, utilities, publications, annual state security dues, insurance CE, and other expenses.....somehow I just don't see a 90% payout.Rank,
That’s what I’ve always heard from the region. But you know, we’ve got quite a few guys who were below Segment 4 numbers, who left, and are now grossing 400-500k.
Do you really think people are leaving for the higher payout? It’s unlikely. They are leaving because they are tired of people blowing smoke up their butts and tired of having to explain to clients why they can’t handle certain transaction/types of accounts.
The same people at LPL grossing 100k are the same people at Jones that have been stuck in Seg 3 for 12 years. Their are at least 10 brokers like that in my region. Some have been in Segment 2 for 5 years and the firm hasn’t fired them. Let’s get real. You’re going to succeed wherever you are, or you are going to fail where ever you are.
And let’s not forget… there are Jones people on Jones trips. I think you have to ask yourself is it worth it? Let’s talk about opportunity cost. While you are at a Jones trip at a Jones dinner, drinking jones cocktails with Jones people, think of the opportunities that you are missing in Bejing, or London, or on the Galapagos Islands.
Also, let’s talk about the encouragement to “do the right thing”.
Scenario 1: Jones broker who needs the tax free income category. He needs $2000 gross to get there. He is out of luck. Client does NOT need tax-free income. He’s got an IRA with the Jones guy. He just inherited some money. He is in a low tax bracket. What does the Jones guy do?
Scenario 2: Broker needs $2000 gross to go on a trip. Same scenario.
Which one has a conflict of interest?
[quote=rankstocks]WestH,
Need I remind you only 1/2 of LPL brokers even GROSS 100k? Your comparing apples and oranges. Also, your previous post mentioned a taxable amount for a trip of $8000, where did you go to get a Jones taxable equivalent that high? Most of mine are from $4500-5500. Your cost for a flight to Costa Rica was $500, mine would be twice that. Don't forget about the free dinners, coctails, happy hours, and cash they usually kick in as well. There is no way you could set up the same trip for the same price they tax you on. Sorry, you are wrong on this one. Of the 30 brokers that switched to LPL, I would venture a guess that all but one or two were either fired or below Seg 4 when they switched. There is a reason the median production at LPL is 100k, the same amount I did my second year at Jones. After you pay boh sides of FICA, E&O insurance, an office assistant and her and your family's health insurance, 10% ticket charges, 10% affilliation fee, office rent, postage, software, telephone, marketing, utilities, publications, annual state security dues, insur?ance CE, and other expenses.....somehow I just don't see a 90% payout.[/quote] Rank: Where/how did you get the figures that 1/2 the LPL reps make under 100k? Can you verify that fact? or it the same Kool-Aid lies that feed you at Jones? From an earlier post, one of you Jones guys stated that they taxed you 30% of the trip's value. So if you get taxed $800 a month for 3 month, you paid a total of $2400 total, well, that's 30% of an $8000 trip. So if your trips are only $4500 - $5500, then your taxes are just $450 - $550 a month for the next 3 months? I was paying more than that 10 - 15 yrs ago. So where's the HUGE economy of scale discount on the taxes?And, Rank, Of course you don’t “see the 90% payout”…Because you’re at Jones!!!
Only us special people in the Independent world see those 90% payouts... BTW, what's your net payout after you subtract: your family's health insurance, 1/2 postage, 1/2 phone, marketing, pubs, & other expenses from 38% payout?about29-31%. I know Iv’e been there.
I was on a div. trip a couple months ago, and one of the GPs showed a PowerPoint that alleged that nearly every other firm in the country is losing advisors.
Of course, Jones is the only firm, according to him, that's growing. I got back and went to the websites of a few of the firms he'd mentioned (the ones I could remember), and they ALL showed growth in the number of advisors, year after year. Someone needs to get their facts straight.Postage is now 100%, so is long distance. A pain for me, with overseas clients.
I will say this, even the LPL recruiter doesn’t say it’s 90%. But 65-70% is still almost double.
LPL grew from approx 8,000 to over 12,000 reps over the past 2 yrs. They acquired a few smaller B/D’s. Not sure if they surpassed Jones in # of reps in the US yet.
Not sure about the #'s of sub $100K producers, but their are over 1000 of $450K+ producers at LPL. The top LPL rep, http://www.joinpeak.com/aboutus.aspx, grossed over $10 Million last yr, & payout of 98%, minus his expenses in Omaha Nebraska, is still pretty decent, at least over 90% NET. Rank: My gross is only $600K+ last yr, 93% payout, & net 89.4% after all LPL fees & ticket charges (less than 1% stock business, ticket charges are miniscule, not sure where you got the 10% figure from, guess you must be a stock jockey at Jones). After office lease, assistant salary, & other office expenses, my NET NET is 78.3%. BTW, I had a few $100+K NET months (not gross, NET) over the yrs here at LPL, that never happened at Jones...WestH,
Just pulled up my pay for April, tax was $510 for the trip for the month, for a total of $1530. The value of the trip I just finished was $5100. Not quite the $8000 you mentioned. Take a look at the Investment News 2008 broker survey:LPL 2008:
Number of reps at year end = 11089
Number of reps producing greater than 100k = 5729Percent of reps producing less than 100k = 48.3%
Median Rep production = $103,265 Average Rep production = $186,900 WestH's defense of LPL = pricelessIts funny how every time someone starts a topic about anything on Jones the non Jones guys jack the thread talking about how the company is such a fraud. Doesn’t it get old?
[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=rankstocks]WestH,
Just pulled up my pay for April, tax was $510 for the trip for the month, for a total of $1530. The value of the trip I just finished was $5100. Not quite the $8000 you mentioned. Take a look at the Investment News 2008 broker survey:LPL 2008:
Number of reps at year end = 11089
Number of reps producing greater than 100k = 5729Percent of reps producing less than 100k = 48.3%
Median Rep production = $103,265 Average Rep production = $186,900 WestH's defense of LPL = priceless [/quote]When you are done beating your chest, please let me know how this should matter to my business, ok?
[/quote] It doesn't. Get back to work!! You have an office to feed.
Spiff: You’re right, Let’s get back to work.
Rank: It's actually not Priceless, at 93% payout, Independence's exact price is 38% More Net than Jones...I just registered for the National Conference for LPL and I noticed that Maritz was doinng the registration. GMI, Inc had done it in the past. I’m a little scared. Maritz always seemed to go low cost.
BTW...LPL pays for everything for me and my wife. We are going to be staying at the Penninsula in Chicago and seeing Sheryl Crow in a private concert just for the entertainment of the advisors. Not as good as paying taxes on a cruise to the Greek Islands, but it's nice that i don't have to pay for anything!Maritz will do as good a job as LPL will let them.
Sounds like summer regional meetings to me. I don't have to pay for those for my wife and I either. Sheryl Crow? Jones would have at least been able to land Hootie and the Blowfish.Ah Spiffy the memories of summer regionals…
Let's see there is the first hand experience of a rep heaving all over the wall (after leaving his breakfast in his chair) within spittin distance of the firm GP and in full view of everyone in the room during the business meeting... Or there is the real life experience of a regional leader forgetting to tell the advisors that they would be sharing common areas of suites inlcuding bathrooms! Man, that was a delicate sell to spouses... Or how about the introduction where we were supposed to tell something about no one would know. One IR got up an said in his youth he was a woman. Another veteran IR got up and immediately responded that he dated her... Close region in Jones speak.... I am sure Spiffy would tell you anything happens at meetings, including Jones meetings. I can tell you I haven't seen anything remotely close at LPL events.foot - you should really learn how to hold it together at meetings better than that. Heaving your breakfast that close to a GP? Wow. That must have not been a good conversation for you afterwards.
What kind of place was it that you guys shared common areas? I've never been in anything other than a hotel with Jones on any trip. Did you at least get to pick who you shared the bathrooms with? There are some wives in our region that wouldn't be so bad to stumble in on, but some... I guess the joke was lost on you with the woman/man comment. Sounds like the LPL events must be pretty boring then. Too bad for you.Spiff-
I would come clean if it was me. I have nothin to hide. I will admit it was comical to see the RL and the GP try and figure out how to spin it.... And it was very embarassing for the IR who is still at Jones and by the way doing well and a limited partner. He probably won't be in line for GP before you!!! The place was a tennis camp/summer resort in Lake Tahoe. It was a one time only experience. I ended up paying for my own room.... Still trying to figure out your wit on the man/woman comment...but I was a witness to all of it... And yes LPL events are pretty boring in comparison, so far. I will say that the vendors don't close down the bar after 30 minutes like they did at Jones regional events. So more than likely somewhere in the world is a drunk independent! And they don't have American Idol sing a longs like the Jones events. LPL had Chicago last year and Sheryl Crow this, so definitely a step up from an IR's singing akapelllllllla.That sing along thing reminds me of my mentor and my first regional meeting. I'm not a guy who drinks. At least not often enough to say I do. My first mentor was THE GUY in the region who would get drunk quicker than anyone else. Well, evidently at that meeting he was way past drunk and got up and did a song that evidently shook the rafters. 5 years later I still hear about his karaoke escapade that night.
Jones has a hospitality room at all of the regional meetings. You can get more than enough alcohol in your system to make yourself look stupid if you want. Typically there is one new FA who misses a big part of the Saturday morning meeting because he and some of the vets stayed too long in the hospitality suite. Nothing like the RL pointing our your lateness as you stroll in with bloodshot eyes at your first regional meeting. At those big LPL meetings, are they the national sales meeting that everyone from everywhere gets to go to? If so, that's probably why the budget is big enough for Chicago or Sheryl Crow. If Jones did one big annual sales meeting for all 10K of us I'd bet they'd do something like that too. It might be more along the lines of George Strait or Billy Ray Cyrus though. Gotta know your audience.What, no weird Al Yankovic to sing parodies?
Geesh, you guys are a bunch of minor leaguers!I remember our area leader used to come to the regional meetings, and mini regionals and play the harmonica, and tell the same sad story about one of his former clients over and over.(meaning at more than one meeting) Now that was motivational! Of course he also made some motivational decisons in our region. I think this clown is still the area leader.
[quote=rankstocks]WestH,
Just pulled up my pay for April, tax was $510 for the trip for the month, for a total of $1530. The value of the trip I just finished was $5100. Not quite the $8000 you mentioned. Take a look at the Investment News 2008 broker survey:LPL 2008:
Number of reps at year end = 11089
Number of reps producing greater than 100k = 5729Percent of reps producing less than 100k = 48.3%
Median Rep production = $103,265 Average Rep production = $186,900 WestH's defense of LPL = priceless[/quote] Reconciling your numbers with the ones Icecold posted, it looks like your numbers include about 4,000 non-producing reps (perhaps like my licensed assistant), which would necessarily skew the median far below the average. If LPL has about 7,000 producing reps, most of them are well over $100K production, with the top 20% well over $700K production. All this proves is that LPL has the ability to serve reps from less than $100K production to over $10 million in production. I'd say that's the mark of a successul firm, but it's irrelevant to how LPL supports me and my business. One positive from your post is that I feel better being above average (about $300K last year) with LPL in only my third year out. I could get into a juvenile tug of war with you...change my signature line to something like "Edward Jones - working from your car, next to Subway or the dry cleaners, or out of a converted gas station - four of your five great office locations.", and although it would be a true statement (I've seen them all), it would be a silly waste of time for both of us. The bulk of the fomer Jones reps I meet at the national are very successful...far from the near washouts you are painting. If you want to resent LPL for, say, taking a lot of Jones reps from Jones, fine, but let's honestly label the source of your animosity. Maybe you've lost some nice accounts to a local LPL rep? It's fine to be angry, but be honest about why you don't like the firm. It can't be based on freedom, technology, product availability or payout as no objective person can realistically argue that Jones is superior in any of these areas. Come on, Rankstocks...tell us the real reason you don't like LPL.[quote=ednomore]
I remember our area leader used to come to the regional meetings, and mini regionals and play the harmonica, and tell the same sad story about one of his former clients over and over.(meaning at more than one meeting) Now that was motivational! Of course he also made some motivational decisons in our region. I think this clown is still the area leader.
[/quote] You've got to be talking about Jordy! I faxed my resignation in to him .Spiked:
Hey, I just booked for 4 nights at the Peninsula on the Mag Mile Chicago too! We stayed at the Four Seasons & Ritz Carlton Chicago already so trying to "diversify" our experience there. How can Maritz swing for those Peninsula rooms that normally goes for $700+ a night in Aug. Well, to have Sheryl Crow to open Mon night, Bonnie Raitt to close Thurs night, with Ted Koppel & Neil Cavuto (Fox News anchor) as featured speakers in between, I might even show up & go a meeting or two this yr. At least at LPL, there's no Jones RL or GP taking roll call attendance...EJ’s diversification trips are a stroke of brilliance. They are a huge motivator and allow travel literally all over the world. Additionally, Maritz travel has a team of advisors that handle every detail for you from your air tickets to on site problems to optioanl activities. Travelling without these guys is a drag! Since it takes only 107500 in aggregate gross seperated into 5 of 8 or 9 categories you must , ie growth, growth and income, tax free income, etc. anyone who is in the business 3 + years should qualify at least once a year.
The downside? You pay taxes on the trip because it is income, and Jones values the trips at close to 6k, taken over the next three months pay. Credit where credit is due on this one.Yes, CCs are lame as hell. A GP on a recent trip was gloating that fee income at EJ had finally met expenses, so now the FAs were “overhead!”
It seems that the firm wants 20,000 thirty somethings who feel that making 100 or 125k a year is big money and are happy to push credit cards, mortgages, etc., which have very little to do IMHO with financial planning. The dependance on fee income is very real, and that is, I think, the biggest reason EJ came out with a mutual fund fee platform...PLUS, it helps recruit experienced tarnsfers to EJ. I cant tell you how many prospective transfers lost interest over the last few years due to the lack of a fee based platform. Oh, and remember, its only for funds; there is no wrap account in the works. ..NOW_INDY
You are correct, it was Jordy.I read Spaceman's list and had a happy seizure just thinking about it. Can someone give me the latest list of places where one might be able to go if they qualify? :)
[quote=CashMonger9000]
I read Spaceman's list and had a happy seizure just thinking about it. Can someone give me the latest list of places where one might be able to go if they qualify? :)
[/quote]
Monger...stop being a wide-eyed little twit.
[quote=Donedrinkin]
[quote=CashMonger9000]
I read Spaceman's list and had a happy seizure just thinking about it. Can someone give me the latest list of places where one might be able to go if they qualify? :)
[/quote]
Monger...stop being a wide-eyed little twit.
[/quote]
Wasn't trying to be an ass. I'm seriously curious, if anyone out there knows.
Wow. Pretty interesting read, even from a few years ago.
So what’s the latest on Jones’ “diversification” trip now days?
I have to agree with WestH’s views on this.
I was formerly with Jones also, & now w/ Indy firm (not LPL).
I do miss the trips & networking w/ other IR/reps. Yes, Jones did a first rate job with those trips. But I also hate paying the taxes afterwards.
I wonder how much of the 60% Jones takes from you, that they use to pay for those trips.
As one Indy firm recruiter told me once:
“After your 90% payout, spend 1, 2 or whatever % you want & take your family on vacation trips to any damn place you want. You’re still way above Jones’ 40% payout…”
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