Edward Jones Article WSJ
Did anyone see the Wall Street Journal article on Edward Jones Jan 10, 2009. The writer puts Jones FA’s in a bad light. Makes them look like small town hicks that go door to door commision only pushing investments. I know, I know, this is all true. I can’t believe Jim Weddle let this writer in to a training class and let a one sided story get published. Then did not give the FA’s a warning it was going to be run.
Rumor has it(heard an FA in my old region) that EDJ might actually lose money for the first time… Having trouble selling advisor program to vets(it takes 5 days to rebalance because a client has to sign new papers to reallign).
The story was more or less fair, and anyway, any publicity is good publicity. Jones didn’t like it, though.
[quote=Squash1]Rumor has it(heard an FA in my old region) that EDJ might actually lose money for the first time… Having trouble selling advisor program to vets(it takes 5 days to rebalance because a client has to sign new papers to reallign).
Are you referring to their new fee-based platform? Why all the paperwork and delay? Compliance CYA and tech problems?
My son who is a business major, laugh and laugh at the article. It is soooooo degrading to edj. I was there, it really is true. They forgot the part about going out to shovel the walks of old ladies with the hopes of being paid for with there statements!!! (below zero wind chills really help) You must do whatever it takes to "gain" their confidence. The crazy thing is, it does work. Door knocking is cheap advertising! If you door knock a new area it is not too bad. But door knocking and being the 4 or 5 to come by their door is almost a joke and appears very desperate. Have a great day! The only good thing is EDJ customer don't read the WSJ!
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123155200027870311.html#articleTabs%3Darticle Here is the link…enjoy!
I didn’t think it was a terrible article, although I did laugh at the mental image of Jim Weddle cowering behind a tractor after being chased by a bull. There were a couple of statements that surprised/amused me:
"Edward Jones follows much the same model it did when it was founded in 1922. It features a combination of high fees and relatively conservative investments." (I've never thought of Jones as a "high-fee" firm) "They are taught to hold a golf ball in their hands so that knocks are loud and knuckles don't wear down." (Isn't that hard on doors?) "Advisers take notes on tablet PCs that they carry with them. Before they got the computers, they carried books and were sometimes mistaken for missionaries." () All in all, what I read is a pretty good description of local Jones reps, and other than the "high-fee" comment and the rehash of the 2004 settlement, I didn't find it all that negative. I did take issue with the assertion that Jones missed the tech stock bubble, as I saw a lot of Lucent and Worldcom in Jones portfolios. I'll give Jones the auction rate argument, but gee, I avoided that one too, although to be honest, I was taking a hard look at them before they collapsed. All in all, not a bad article, IMO, although I think I'll reprint that article, highlight the "high-fee" comment and put it in my war book...I thought the part about the training hurt EDJ a little. They made it sound as if they pull guys off the street and teach them how to approach a dog for 5 days then put FA on their business cards!
Having worked at the firm, I think the article is accurate... But don't you just get the impression that this is a southern hillbilly firm.... I know it's not, but some of the people they interview at Jones are just terrible at giving quotes and one liners...
Glad I left..[quote=LA Broker]I thought the part about the training hurt EDJ a little. They made it sound as if they pull guys off the street and teach them how to approach a dog for 5 days then put FA on their business cards![/quote]
...I remember that tripI’d say the article was spot on…they do pull people off the street and teach them to sell products. Its a sales organization …thats it…nothing more nothing less.
Did anyone see the Wall Street Journal article on Edward Jones Jan 10, 2009. The writer puts Jones FA’s in a bad light. Makes them look like small town hicks that go door to door commision only pushing investments. I know, I know, this is all true. I can’t believe Jim Weddle let this writer in to a training class and let a one sided story get published. Then did not give the FA’s a warning it was going to be run.
Weddle doesn't care. Heck its on our UPTICK page today for the world to see. I didn't have time to read the article this morning but after reading these comments I went back and read it. I don't think the article was bad at ALL. I also disagree that it will discourage people from Jones I think that it was a fair view of Jones and nothing bad. I tell my clients how I started to build my business I am proud of my hard work. Since most of my clients are business owners they agree you have to do the hard work to be successful. No shame here.
WSJ could have followed around the wirehouse brokers.. That would have entailed them sitting in a cubical or an office all day while the brokers cold called people out of the phone book. That might have made for a boiler room environment.. Much more entertaining.
Miss J
[quote=LA Broker] Did anyone see the Wall Street Journal article on Edward Jones Jan 10, 2009. The writer puts Jones FA’s in a bad light. Makes them look like small town hicks that go door to door commision only pushing investments. I know, I know, this is all true. I can’t believe Jim Weddle let this writer in to a training class and let a one sided story get published. Then did not give the FA’s a warning it was going to be run.
Weddle doesn't care. Heck its on our UPTICK page today for the world to see. I didn't have time to read the article this morning but after reading these comments I went back and read it. I don't think the article was bad at ALL. I also disagree that it will discourage people from Jones I think that it was a fair view of Jones and nothing bad. I tell my clients how I started to build my business I am proud of my hard work. Since most of my clients are business owners they agree you have to do the hard work to be successful. No shame here.
WSJ could have followed around the wirehouse brokers.. That would have entailed them sitting in a cubical or an office all day while the brokers cold called people out of the phone book. That might have made for a boiler room environment.. Much more entertaining.
Miss J[/quote]
Have you ever seen "The Devil in Miss Jones"?
Did anyone think that the comment “the average salesperson, including some women, make $65,000 per year…” was bit sexist?
[quote=advzrguy]Did anyone think that the comment “the average salesperson, including some women, make $65,000 per year…” was bit sexist?[/quote]
No. It explains the downward pressure on the average.
I thought the depiction of the training was horrible. I thought the comment about high fees was way off base. And I thought the comments about the couple of prospect “turndowns” were obviously written from someone who doesn’t really understand the business at all. Turndown implies something negative happened. He got two new prospects out of those contacts. That’s actually a good thing. I’m actually shocked that Kevin Alm would be quoted to say that 60% of our trainees drop out in the first 6 months. Two years, yes. But not 6 months.
Monopoly - I'm glad your wet behind the ears, not yet in the workforce, theory educated, son got a good laugh at Jones' expense. My personal opinion is when he's walked a mile in those shoes (or anyone's shoes) he can laugh at it. Until then, don't knock what you don't understand.Spiff…are you saying Alm was telling a lie when he stated 60% washout in the first 6months? Are you privey to the numbers? After reading the link, I just shook my head in disgust…what a horrible way to make a living…and the poor sole keeps hounding those people…basically begging them to do business. I guess if I was unemployed, a few months on EDJ’s dollar wouldn’t be to bad until I got a new gig. Sucks in this weather though…
[quote=monopolybet]
First account I opened was over 200k, when I asked for help my field trainer, he said "just put it in American Funds". So I did I pick 4 funds and put 25k in each!!!! That what a week of training does for ya!! [/quote] I guess the training skips math and the hiring process doesn't require much either (?).I dunno. Upon first read I got the impression they were describing the company in a folksy way.
On a second read it seems like they're selling Amway on the set of Green Acres. A dog rescue, a kid stuck in a tree and a bull chasing you in circles around a tractor? Bible stores surrounded by hay bales on Honeysuckle Street? If I was a customer considering using Jones services, this would definitely put me off. The product is described as high-fee (is it, compared to others?) and the description of the training program is ridiculous. They mention Dog Approach 101 and nothing about passing the same exams as everyone else in the industry? The Wall Street Journal certainly didn't do Jones any favors. Oh, and somebody please tell me that humiliating yourself in 20 degree weather for 60 hours a week pays better than $65k a year.They need bodys, that’s it… Put them in some “special funds” make them pay upfront and charge them for everything. That way when the broker fails after 6 months, the next guy know exactly where to start…
Spiff... We have all been through the "training" in STL(or Tempe-heard they had better food). The training for taking the tests good, training for the rest crap. They rely on wholesalers(read American Funds) to train them on what to sell and what allocations, most of the twits(mean that in the best way possible) have no idea what they are doing... But there are an equal number who are very qualified, but they did the research on their own... Which is probably why they are still there..Monopoly - First, I wasn’t referring to you as wet behind the years. It was a reference to this statement: “My son who is a business major, laugh and laugh at the article.” I understand why you might chuckle, but what reference point does your son have that makes him chuckle?
Spears - so you talk to someone once and then forget about them? That explains a lot. It's a pretty common sales process in general to talk to people more than one time before they become a client/customer. And if you're that good that you can talk to people once and open accounts with them or decide it's not worth your time, perhaps I have a lot to learn from you. And maybe the attrition rate is 60% in the first 6 months these days. It sure wasn't during my years in those classrooms. Those numbers would mean, assuming out S7 pass rate hasn't plunged along with the market, that of 100 people hired we lose 10 to the tests and then 50 once they hit the field. 6 months in barely gets you past PDP. I'd be suprised if those numbers are accurate. And as far as being privey to those numbers, no, they don't send me an email, but I can get the info with a phone call or two. Which I will probably do tomorrow. Perhaps the writer of the article didn't write down her facts correctly. You'll notice that she didn't put it in quotes. So, I'm not inclined to believe everything written in an article with an obvious bias against Jones. And since I don't know this writer, I wouldn't take her at her word. After all, she can't even spell advisOr correctly.[quote=bspears]Spiff…are you saying Alm was telling a lie when he stated 60% washout in the first 6months? Are you privey to the numbers? After reading the link, I just shook my head in disgust…what a horrible way to make a living…and the poor sole keeps hounding those people…basically begging them to do business. I guess if I was unemployed, a few months on EDJ’s dollar wouldn’t be to bad until I got a new gig. Sucks in this weather though…[/quote]
Spears…you’ve been away for a while now. It’s time to let go of the whole bitter anger thing. Really.
All of us had to “beat the streets” in some form or another to get our start, whether we were with Jones or not.
Hell, I’ll give the guy shoveling sidewalks a lot of credit if that’s what it took to get their statements and get them talking about the nitty gritty of their finances. Like Nick Murray says, "People don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care."
How long can it take to shovel someone’s sidewalk? 15 minutes? That’s probably a lot more productive than cold calling in this environment. 25 cold calls and maybe you get one contact who says you can send your card and call back again in a few weeks to share an idea and learn a little more about them…or shovel a sidewalk and walk away with copies of their statements…I think I’d put on my boots and go shoveling if I thought I could make that work.
The point is moot !
EDJ clients don't read the WSJ. The firm has control. They can order reprints or just let it go.
When I went to the training, the golf ball was optional.
Nick Murray also said today in a conference call with WB/AGE brokers that this industry will have 25-35% less brokers in it by end of 2009. Who could it be…hmmmm…I can think of a few pikers on extended time right now because our manager did not have the nads to say see yah… Well, he did have the compassion to let them make nearly minimum wage for the last several months/quarters. Really, 7-9 years in the biz and only turning a buck and a half on t12… I’m sorry, I think it is time for these guys to be lookin for a new gig.
[quote=Cowboy93][quote=monopolybet]
First account I opened was over 200k, when I asked for help my field trainer, he said "just put it in American Funds". So I did I pick 4 funds and put 25k in each!!!! That what a week of training does for ya!![/quote] I guess the training skips math and the hiring process doesn't require much either (?).[/quote] ...maybe he put the other 100K with Madoff...[quote=Indyone][quote=Cowboy93][quote=monopolybet]
First account I opened was over 200k, when I asked for help my field trainer, he said "just put it in American Funds". So I did I pick 4 funds and put 25k in each!!!! That what a week of training does for ya!![/quote] I guess the training skips math and the hiring process doesn't require much either (?).[/quote] ...maybe he put the other 100K with Madoff...[/quote] the 4 x 25k was for the beakpoint calculation and I think Madoff had only FU shares not A shares.Maybe the other 100k are the aforementioned “high fees”!
Oh, boy never make a mistake on this forum…you all, do not miss anything! Sorry I meant 100k…either way, to just tell a newbie to just put it in american funds with a wave of the hand and not help to meet the clients needs. We all know how EDJ puts the client first!!! So sorry I made a mistake. I just get soooooooooooooo upset when I think back to those early years!!!
We just had a EDJ trainee knock on our door recently. Unfortunately, I wasn’t home to enjoy the encounter. Next time I tell my wife to ask the IR trainee to shovel our driveway or pull some weeds out of the garden. She could say something like my husband will be home in two hours. He makes a good living. Can you do some work around the house until he comes home? (wait…you’re not IRs anymore you are Financial Advisors now - Congrats on the promotion!)
But seriously, as a former Jones IR, and former Wire house guy and now an Independent I do have a great deal of respect for the effort being made by the WSJ profiled Jones FA. His military background and pension will likely allow him to keep up the good fight for awhile. He is following orders well. The thing is he was only trained one way. Hopefully, he will learn to add working smart to working hard. Here is a secret the Jones home office won’t tell you - The reason the wire house FAs control more money and make much more than the 60K or so Jones seems to be averaging is that they work with their brains. Sticking to it with discipline can help lead to great things. Combine that, with lifting your head up to think once and awhile for yourself, and you will find you eventually out grow EDJ.
Hyman, I’m not bitter, just having a good time with Jones. I’ve not doorknocked once since I’ve been indy, not once…and my business is doing fine. I look back and cringe at the thought of walking down streets begging people to do business with me. It screams desperation…servicing my current clients to the max and casually sending clients to the local CPA and probate attorney has reaped far more for my practice than walking down a street when its 5 degrees asking old people to open a door.
Fortunately people are not as gullable as they may have been back in the 70-80's or even the 90's. They understand the false front of "acting" like they are genuine about helping them...THEY WANT YOUR MONEY is what it is screaming.Spears, I agree with you. However, let’s put it into perspective. We are talking about scratch starters, not people in the business for several years. Most people on this board like to talk about how JONES people get their business started. Let me ask you, if you started over from scratch, but didn’t have any of your current contacts, knowledge, etc., how would you get started without cold prospecting? It’s pretty tough to make it at any firm in the first few years without (essentially) begging. Whether it be over the phone or face-to-face, the first few years are pretty humbling (assuming you don’t have some natural market or network to turn to right away). I’m not really trying to defend Jones, I’m just saying that most Jones FA’s don’t really doorknock after the first year or two. Some do (some are good at it, or are in areas where it works well). But most, once they develop a client base and a process, and start networking, etc. move past doorknocking. Sometimes the folks on this board focus so much on how Jones FA’s get started. I just don’t know how many alternatives there are when starting out cold at any firm.
And after all, aren't most of us acting to a certain degree? And do people think Jones FA's are "acting" any more than at any other firm? I really agree with Wired when he said that too many Jones FA's don't think for themselves. This is one pet peeve I have with Jones people sometimes. Jones does sort of brainwash some people into thinking there is only one way to prospect. My experience is that about half the veterans at Jones move past that philosophy, and the other half will always bleed green. That's why sometimes, although Jones FA's seem to be very helpful, their "help" becomes less and less valuable as you progress through your career (how many times can you listen to a veteran tell you to "call on a good bond"?).[quote=B24]
I really agree with Wired when he said that too many Jones FA's don't think for themselves. This is one pet peeve I have with Jones people sometimes. Jones does sort of brainwash some people into thinking there is only one way to prospect. My experience is that about half the veterans at Jones move past that philosophy, and the other half will always bleed green. That's why sometimes, although Jones FA's seem to be very helpful, their "help" becomes less and less valuable as you progress through your career (how many times can you listen to a veteran tell you to "call on a good bond"?).[/quote] And unfortunately when a newb does try to do this they are accused of "going against the grain." It is not easy to do, and that is the culture issue Jones needs to fix.[quote=bspears]Hyman, I’m not bitter, just having a good time with Jones. I’ve not doorknocked once since I’ve been indy, not once…and my business is doing fine. I look back and cringe at the thought of walking down streets begging people to do business with me. It screams desperation…servicing my current clients to the max and casually sending clients to the local CPA and probate attorney has reaped far more for my practice than walking down a street when its 5 degrees asking old people to open a door.
Fortunately people are not as gullable as they may have been back in the 70-80's or even the 90's. They understand the false front of "acting" like they are genuine about helping them...THEY WANT YOUR MONEY is what it is screaming. [/quote]No offense intended, but to a regular reader it comes across as bitter.
Is it "acting" if you really care about people?
Geez, here is ANOTHER EJ article, this one in the Registered Rep January issue which just arrived.
How can you care about anyone when you've never met them? ITS ALL A FACADE...
Spears, we all act like we care about our clients even before they are clients. It’s human nature. It has nothing to do with Jones. You mean to tell me that you DON’T act like you care about your prospects/clients?
You would be correct. See…you act like everyone you doorknock are dumbasses and can’t see through why your there. Instead of training on coming up with bullshit conversation, why don’t you try to be upfront and say…hey I’m a Financial Advisor starting a practice here locally and wanted to introduce myself, do you already work with someone. Instead…its "hey I see you have some palm trees in your yard…wow you do a great job with that wonderful looking tree. You must be a master gardener…oh really…oh by the way…CAN I SEE YOUR STATEMENTS SO I CAN RUN A HYPO WITH ANY DATES I WANT TO MAKE SURE IT LOOKS BETTER THAN YOUR INVESTMENTS…PLEASE…PRETTY PLEASE…and then I can sell you out of them and buy A shares in American funds…please…please…the months about up and I don’t have shit on the books.
You must have really sucked at doorknocking. Otherwise you wouldn’t have the opinion of it that you do. The only time you can’t tell some that you’re a financial advisor starting a practice, blah, blah, blah is between KYC and the week before Eval/Grad. And even during that time you don’t need to have a conversation about their flowers, you just can’t ask them about their investments. After that short window, you SHOULD be telling them the whole I’m an advisor thing.
This whole arguement you're making is completely between your ears. It's YOUR perception that what you were doing was begging people for their statements. Perhaps you were naive enough to believe that you were fooling them with the whole flower conversation, but I don't believe Jones ever told you that you were trying to do anything but introduce your business to them so that you could get to their money. It's pure marketing. The reason training can't come up with anything better is because they are training you, at least during KYC, to be able to have a conversation with someone before you are technically licensed. They are trying to get one or two of those 5-7 contacts out of the way before you can even sell anything to them. You have to start somewhere and a non confrontational conversation about their kids, job, etc is a whole lot better than nothing. If these last few posts of yours are any indication of your career at Jones and how you handled yourself as an advisor while you were there, it's no wonder you have such a poor opinion of Jones FAs. You must have absolutely turned your brain off and plugged it into the Jonesnet instead. Cause if that was the way you ran your business you sure weren't thinking for yourself. But since you weren't thinking for yourself, obviously the rest of us aren't either.As I’ve stated before I grew a 2.5mil business to a 34mil bus in 5 years and IT WASN’T FREAKIN DOORKNOCKING…I DON’T DOORKNOCK…its rude…its slimy…its smells of desperation…I didn’t doorknock when I was there…I took names out of a phone book and put in bogus bullshit to get by the training. I was the 7th jones guy to blow through my old office…give me a break…how many times do you need to bother someone and feed them the same lame line.
I feel ripped off, I just went to KYC on 1/5, and my ATL left out both the golf ball trick and the dog whisperer training. Mickey’s eased the pain, but their seasonal brew kicked the bejesus out of my intestinal tract.
That's actually pretty much what I did "hey I'm a Financial Advisor starting a practice here locally and wanted to introduce myself, do you already work with someone." I agree, the goofy "you're garden is great" stuff screams of pathetic. I guess when i went out introducing myself, I was just myself, and I generally like people. So I was not "faking" kindness or sincerity. But even in my past career, I was the same way. Treated people with respect. This was sort of a dumb thread.You would be correct. See…you act like everyone you doorknock are dumbasses and can’t see through why your there. Instead of training on coming up with bullshit conversation, why don’t you try to be upfront and say…hey I’m a Financial Advisor starting a practice here locally and wanted to introduce myself, do you already work with someone. Instead…its "hey I see you have some palm trees in your yard…wow you do a great job with that wonderful looking tree. You must be a master gardener…oh really…oh by the way…CAN I SEE YOUR STATEMENTS SO I CAN RUN A HYPO WITH ANY DATES I WANT TO MAKE SURE IT LOOKS BETTER THAN YOUR INVESTMENTS…PLEASE…PRETTY PLEASE…and then I can sell you out of them and buy A shares in American funds…please…please…the months about up and I don’t have shit on the books.
OK, great. Good for you. Now, just think what that biz might have been had you not had this ridiculous notion that doorknocking is rude, slimy, and smelling of desperation. What's desperate about ringing someone's doorbell and asking them to do biz with you? Is it any more slimy than calling them on the phone and asking the same question? Is it different to walk into a business and ask the same question? How about the guy sitting next to you at your kid's soccer game. Is it slimy to hand him your business card and offer a review of his investments? How about the fishbowl at the local mexican restaurant? That slimy too? My impression was to get prospects no matter what. A new client is a new client. You know what I find interesting about doorknocking vs. cold calling. No caller ID. No DNC lists. Fresh air. Excercise. Looking people in the eye rather than at my computer screen. I can't wait until it's more than 30 degrees around here. All this talk about doorknocking reminds me that I haven't done it in a while. My last doorknocking day landed me two new clients worth over a million. Only 10 more days like that this year and I've hit my AUM goals. And the answer to your last question...until they tell you to drop dead or until they say yes.As I’ve stated before I grew a 2.5mil business to a 34mil bus in 5 years and IT WASN’T FREAKIN DOORKNOCKING…I DON’T DOORKNOCK…its rude…its slimy…its smells of desperation…I didn’t doorknock when I was there…I took names out of a phone book and put in bogus bullshit to get by the training. I was the 7th jones guy to blow through my old office…give me a break…how many times do you need to bother someone and feed them the same lame line.
Great for you..I counter your desperation walking with a courtesy call from a local attorneys' secretary last week. She wanted to let me know they gave the son of a deceased client my card. He called Tuesday to set an appt. I get me excercise by running and clients by referrals. NEVER EVER happened when I was at Jones...NEVER. It may be one business owner trying to help another...who knows and who cares. I guess if I was a client of yours and I was driving around during market hours and there you are walking down the street...I would have to wonder...business must be bad.
It wasn’t desparation knocking. It was just too nice a day to sit at my desk. Hard to beat 75 and sunny with low humidity in August. It was either golf or doorknock.
Actually, I run into clients fairly often when I doorknock. I'll go back to some of the neighborhoods where I've created clients before and assume I can do it again. I've never had a negative statement from any of them. They're always glad to see me. They're also glad to stand on their front porch and tell me which of their neighbors I should go see first. Now, again, just imagine what your biz could be right now if you took just 4 hours a week and went to the wealthiest neighborhood in your town and personally put your biz card in the hands of all of those folks. I promise you that you'd see more new clients coming in than you would if you just sit on your butt and wait for that attorney's next referral. BTW, Jones will tell you that after a while, the way you're doing it is absolutely the best way to get new clients. But you have to get to the point where there are enough things like that to be able to make it long term before you can stop actively pursuing clients. I've known several Jones folks who have never doorknocked before and made it. But I know a lot more who will tell you that they survived BECAUSE they weren't afraid to go doorknocking.OK – I have lived in two exclusive areas of a metro area w/ a pop of about 2 million, $1 million houses, $150k of toys in the garages, and I have never had an EDJones person come knocking – not that I care, but the fuckin mormon missionaries do a much better job of harassing people…
no thats how ameriprize does it
You can come shovel my driveway... Did inform Jones that you had an outside job during business hours, running a snow removal service?[quote=bspears]Spiff…are you saying Alm was telling a lie when he stated 60% washout in the first 6months? Are you privey to the numbers? After reading the link, I just shook my head in disgust…what a horrible way to make a living…and the poor sole keeps hounding those people…basically begging them to do business. I guess if I was unemployed, a few months on EDJ’s dollar wouldn’t be to bad until I got a new gig. Sucks in this weather though…[/quote]
Spears…you’ve been away for a while now. It’s time to let go of the whole bitter anger thing. Really.
All of us had to “beat the streets” in some form or another to get our start, whether we were with Jones or not.
Hell, I’ll give the guy shoveling sidewalks a lot of credit if that’s what it took to get their statements and get them talking about the nitty gritty of their finances. Like Nick Murray says, “People don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care.”
How long can it take to shovel someone’s sidewalk? 15 minutes? That’s probably a lot more productive than cold calling in this environment. 25 cold calls and maybe you get one contact who says you can send your card and call back again in a few weeks to share an idea and learn a little more about them…or shovel a sidewalk and walk away with copies of their statements…I think I’d put on my boots and go shoveling if I thought I could make that work.
You can shovel my driveway... I hope you told Jones you have an outside job that you are doing during business hours.... They will fire you if you don't.[quote=bspears]Spiff…are you saying Alm was telling a lie when he stated 60% washout in the first 6months? Are you privey to the numbers? After reading the link, I just shook my head in disgust…what a horrible way to make a living…and the poor sole keeps hounding those people…basically begging them to do business. I guess if I was unemployed, a few months on EDJ’s dollar wouldn’t be to bad until I got a new gig. Sucks in this weather though…[/quote]
Spears…you’ve been away for a while now. It’s time to let go of the whole bitter anger thing. Really.
All of us had to “beat the streets” in some form or another to get our start, whether we were with Jones or not.
Hell, I’ll give the guy shoveling sidewalks a lot of credit if that’s what it took to get their statements and get them talking about the nitty gritty of their finances. Like Nick Murray says, “People don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care.”
How long can it take to shovel someone’s sidewalk? 15 minutes? That’s probably a lot more productive than cold calling in this environment. 25 cold calls and maybe you get one contact who says you can send your card and call back again in a few weeks to share an idea and learn a little more about them…or shovel a sidewalk and walk away with copies of their statements…I think I’d put on my boots and go shoveling if I thought I could make that work.
[quote=Spaceman Spiff]It wasn’t desparation knocking. It was just too nice a day to sit at my desk. Hard to beat 75 and sunny with low humidity in August. It was either golf or doorknock.
Actually, I run into clients fairly often when I doorknock. I'll go back to some of the neighborhoods where I've created clients before and assume I can do it again. I've never had a negative statement from any of them. They're always glad to see me. They're also glad to stand on their front porch and tell me which of their neighbors I should go see first. Now, again, just imagine what your biz could be right now if you took just 4 hours a week and went to the wealthiest neighborhood in your town and personally put your biz card in the hands of all of those folks. I promise you that you'd see more new clients coming in than you would if you just sit on your butt and wait for that attorney's next referral. BTW, Jones will tell you that after a while, the way you're doing it is absolutely the best way to get new clients. But you have to get to the point where there are enough things like that to be able to make it long term before you can stop actively pursuing clients. I've known several Jones folks who have never doorknocked before and made it. But I know a lot more who will tell you that they survived BECAUSE they weren't afraid to go doorknocking. [/quote] It doesn't look like desperation when the market is open and you are knocking on doors? People know...the Jones model "Buy and Forget and pick up my 25bps, til I have a bad month, then flip them into different fund families, A shares of course... Still have that BUY rating on Citi (we need them to give us bonds if they ever comeback) and Bank of America(It's a core in the model portfolio we can't take it out, cause that means we might be wrong about the rest of it too).. Sorry talked an old Jones broker from my old region today, he told me about 6 reps who are about to go on goals and get fired... Those guys were the same ones that the RL was glorifying at the last summer regional I was at..."These guys know how the business works"..Same story here. I've lived in two pretty well off neighborhoods and a Jones person has never knocked on my door. Which is why I believe them when they say the market is not saturated even though there's a Jones rep every every coupla miles on the company map.I have never had an EDJones person come knocking – not that I care, but the fuckin mormon missionaries do a much better job of harassing people…
Actually I’ve never had a Jones guy knock on my door either.
Squash - what does the market being open have to do with anything. I've never really understood that. 90% of the business I do isn't timing sensitive. So, I don't really care if the market is open or not when I'm trying to find new people to talk to. And in my opinion doorknocking NEVER looks like desperation. These "people" you mention who know how the Jones model works, are they clients? Or are they advisors (like yourself) who used to be with Jones and are now telling people the way the Jones model works so that they can start that wedge driving between clients and advisors? I would say that the majority of "people" out there couldn't tell the difference between the the MER model, the Jones model, or the local indy guy model if they were looking at the statements. The "people" don't know the difference between an A share or a C share or a LW A share in a wrap account. They don't know about trails, or revenue sharing, or any of the other things that go on in our industry. I think you're giving the "people" way too much credit for being intelligent. We've got some vets in our region that are just flat struggling right now. And of those guys in your old region are seg 2 or 3, they're the most vunerable. I had a conversation a few weeks ago with someone from the training area and he said that Jones isn't pulling any punches these days. You get to 40% of standard and you go on goals. That happens and it's pretty much over. So, if you were coasting at or above the bare minimum chances are you're struggling right now. And it doesn't take very long to get down to that 40% number. It takes a long time to get up to the bogeys to keep your office. That's not just a Jones thing right now. It's industry wide. Just look at all the posts on this board about pikers in the office who should have been gone a while ago. Our industry is going to contract. It's inevitable. Jones isn't and shouldn't be immune to it.I think you are right, but that's not what they are saying. The plan is to still to grow 9 or 10 percent every year, no matter what the economic or market conditions. How are they going to do that with the rising number of FAs on goals? Like you said, those FAs are gone. We're going to wind up with a firm with half our FAs being out one to three years. We can't be profitable that way, and it will put pressure on the vets to leave., Our industry is going to contract. It’s inevitable. Jones isn’t and shouldn’t be immune to it.
Half of them ARE out like 1 to 3 years. Do this…look at your Branch Footings. Look at where you are in the ranking of AUM. It will shock you. I’m only a few years in, and am ahead of like 4,000 other FA’s.
Jones will always have the conundrum of too many new reps because of the growth montra. It has always been a numbers game to them. Spiff- Do you remember the grid they used to show us that showed how the numbers of reps were exponential as they seasoned. That conversation was to bait us into believing that firm would be so wildly profitable that they would actually share some of the profits with us. Is the bonus bracket still at 0?
The flaw in that concept is apparent with so many reps that are constantly being pumped through the pipeline. If anyone can be better than 40% of reps in AUM after a few years, clearly the bar has been dropping. Now if they concentrate on the health of the sales force and focus on supporting what they have, (read very carefully Spiff) I believe that Jones will corner the smaller market over time. No one wants it, whether its clients or b/d's.Health and wealth of the sales force. A novel idea. Which is why it has never been tried. It makes too much sense.
I agree with you, I think. Jones does a poor job of supporting what they have. Sure we have Segment leaders in our regions, but the vast majority of them are just looking for their next round of LP and couldn’t give a rip about helping the struggling folks succeed. There isn’t anyone in the firm whose only job is to help a guy who has been out for a while, but just not hitting seg 4 numbers, get to that point. Another FA isn’t going to do it. They’re too focused on their own numbers. The training folks are good, but only to a certain extent. The area teams are fine for what they do, which is mostly manage those people who are on goals. I think I’ve heard from my area person once in the last 2 years. And I think I called her.
I'm in a region of over 60 people. 20 of those 60+ are out under two years. We've got 16 people in our region who are below expectations. Two of those are vets who have been out for 10+ years. And instead of sitting down with those vets who aren't healthy and trying to either A) fix the problems or B) suggest an exit strategy we just keep hiring more people. We've got new people stepping all over each other trying to doorknock with 5 or 6 more new trainees studying right now. And as I was reading Jim Weddle's note to the firm this morning on cost cutting measures I couldn't help but chuckle that they're willing to put a cap on home office staff and hiring there, but not on hiring new FAs. I find it interesting, and somewhat troubling, that they would take a guy who has been out for say 5 years who's business is struggling (read not making the firm any money), put him on goals, and then replace him with a new guy straight from Eval/Grad. Seems to me a better way would be to spend a fraction of the money you would spend on hiring, training, and paying the new FA on the existing FA to see if you can get him profitable. Unless he is absolutely a lost cause it would be money well spent. Seems you've hit one of my hot buttons.This is a problem for ALL firms not just Jones. For some reason the powers that be see someone struggling and they just say they're not cut out for the job. Instead of looking for ways to truly help them.
[quote=jkl1v1n6]
This is a problem for ALL firms not just Jones. For some reason the powers that be see someone struggling and they just say they're not cut out for the job. Instead of looking for ways to truly help them.
[/quote] I agree. Wouldn't it be easier to send over some assets to those that are struggling but have stayed 3 years than to risk thsoe assets on another GK plan and another newbie??It's funny you should say that because I was just thinking the same thing. I had my final interview with EJ last week (I think it went very well) and the interviewer pulled out the income per annum visual aid, saying that at my fifth year I should be earning over $100k per year. I mentioned that I read a recent WSJ article that quoted the company as saying the average EJ FA makes $65,000 a year. He replied, "Oh well, sure. That's because half of the FAs aren't even passed their third year." For a company that's 90 years old? All that tells me is that the company experiences tremendous, bordering on ridiculous, turnover. Why not hire half as many trainees and give them twice as much support? Surely the company would be better represented by fewer, well seasoned professionals than by twice as many starving, surly, despondent newbies. Fr'instance, take the company's top ten doorknocking legends and pay them $200k per year to go out and actually doorknock with the newbies. Have them mentor and monitor them. Have them go out as much as is necessary with each and every one. Think of how much money it would save the company, which supposedly spends $100,000 per new trainee (a preposterous figure imo).I agree with you, I think. Jones does a poor job of supporting what they have. … I find it interesting, and somewhat troubling, that they would take a guy who has been out for say 5 years who’s business is struggling (read not making the firm any money), put him on goals, and then replace him with a new guy straight from Eval/Grad. Seems to me a better way would be to spend a fraction of the money you would spend on hiring, training, and paying the new FA on the existing FA to see if you can get him profitable.
I have been reading this post off and on since I started with Jones over three 3 years ago. These are some of the most real coments about EDJ, that I have every read. Weddel was on today, and his mantra was growth, growth growth. No real concern for seg 2 or 3 leaving. The growth team in our region is expecting 09 more to leave but who cares, there are 20 more newbies to take our place. For a firm who braggs about caring for the clients, it is the client who are hurt by FA's leaving. I am looking into options. There has got to be a better enviroment to do this job. So long to the volunteers who where interested in hiring me, but I went over 2 years before my field trainer called to see how I was doing? (like he really cared!!)
I think they should make it a “volunteer” mentor program, like field training is. We know how they love to help the new people
[quote=Spaceman Spiff]I agree with you, I think. Jones does a poor job of supporting what they have. Sure we have Segment leaders in our regions, but the vast majority of them are just looking for their next round of LP and couldn’t give a rip about helping the struggling folks succeed. There isn’t anyone in the firm whose only job is to help a guy who has been out for a while, but just not hitting seg 4 numbers, get to that point. Another FA isn’t going to do it. They’re too focused on their own numbers. The training folks are good, but only to a certain extent. The area teams are fine for what they do, which is mostly manage those people who are on goals. I think I’ve heard from my area person once in the last 2 years. And I think I called her.
I'm in a region of over 60 people. 20 of those 60+ are out under two years. We've got 16 people in our region who are below expectations. Two of those are vets who have been out for 10+ years. And instead of sitting down with those vets who aren't healthy and trying to either A) fix the problems or B) suggest an exit strategy we just keep hiring more people. We've got new people stepping all over each other trying to doorknock with 5 or 6 more new trainees studying right now. And as I was reading Jim Weddle's note to the firm this morning on cost cutting measures I couldn't help but chuckle that they're willing to put a cap on home office staff and hiring there, but not on hiring new FAs. I find it interesting, and somewhat troubling, that they would take a guy who has been out for say 5 years who's business is struggling (read not making the firm any money), put him on goals, and then replace him with a new guy straight from Eval/Grad. Seems to me a better way would be to spend a fraction of the money you would spend on hiring, training, and paying the new FA on the existing FA to see if you can get him profitable. Unless he is absolutely a lost cause it would be money well spent. Seems you've hit one of my hot buttons. [/quote] I was one of those struggling at jones. Was there for about 3 years. I was meeting or exceeding expectations most of the time. October and November did me in. They would not even consider past performance. I was replaced with a guy straight out of eval/grad. It makes absolutely no business sense what they are doing.The powers that be at stl said they where going to extend the legacy and goodnight program, also hold off on new store front to save money. This is a fancy way of saying they will be back filling offices. They really do only care about the seg 4 or 5 brokers, and the almighty new fa. That is their idea of growth. This is such a stupid 5 year plan. What is REALLY best for the client, the new fa or someone with 3 years experience? The seg 2-3 have absolutely no value to this company...this is crazy. If everyone is new who is mentoring or doing field training...the seg 4 or 5 have got to be sick and tired of "volunteering" when there own business if off.
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