Can i take my book? {literally}

name, yes. phone number, yes. address, yes. email, yes. SSN, ACCOUNT TITLES, ACCOUNT NUMBERS, STATEMENTS, ETC- not unless you are ready to lose you _ss!

Leave with class- call your clients over the weekend, and don't bad mouth your firm and you should be okay.

If you have ACATS forms dropping day two- then you pre-solicited and all it takes is ONE client to admit that and you are dead meat.

EVERYONE knows I am biased- but if you are looking at retail fixed income, why don't  you look at someone who has multiple inventories and access to the street with using BondDesk system?

I am not quite sure what LPL and RJ have for inventory but I know Wachovia FiNet uses Bond Desk- just a suggestion as you will see most of us have strong opinions about who we affiliate with-

jeno1000,

I came over from EJ in 2003 and have a cheat sheet of some things to do if you are coming over to Raymond James.  PM me if you want me to email it to you.  You need to fight fair...your old firm won't!

From what I hear, RJ has a better bond inventory than LPL, but my info. is a couple of years old.

oops…I meant to say:  You don’t need to fight fair…your old firm won’t.

RJ has a good record of wins over EDJ

As far as difference between RJ & LPL...my understanding is that RJ has bond inventory and LPL does not hold inventory, but rather goes to the street to find bonds.  Generally, the concensus is that this gives RJ an advantage over LPL on bonds, but it could also be a double-edged sword in my book, as the inventory bond prices may not be that great if the market moves against a company's bond inventory.  I don't do a lot of individual bonds, but for what I have done, I've been well satisfied with what LPL could find for me.  Probably the best indicator on bond pricing is to ask all of your candidates for pricing (with and without concessions) on a few common bond purchase and see how everyone stacks up.

Definitely do the due diligence trip to Tampa to see RJ's headquarters...I think you'll be impressed (I was even though I ultimately chose LPL).  Also visit LPL in San Diego if you haven't already.  These firms will fly you out and put you up in a nice motel on their dime and I believe that it is absolutely critical to visit each candidate before you make a decision.

...and on taking information with you...you're probaly OK taking name, address and phone number (things you can get out of a phone book), but I wouldn't take a doggone thing until you've selected your B/D and consulted with their legal counsel.

Good luck with your search...I very much enjoy life as an independent.

hey guys thanks for the replies…to follow up this might sound dumb but how would the firm know/prove that u took more than just ph no’s and names …not that i intend to…but just wondering…{say u took ur book with u and it had names , numbers and account numbers…}also lpl kinda mentioned that their legal would aid me should something come up and i dont need my lawyer…how true is that…if i do get hit with tro …and i have to hire a lawyer how much would that cost me…i am also tryin to move to a different city …so in case of a tro do i need to come back to original city to attend any proceedings/arbitration…also this might be a question more for bond guys but looks like at regionals u can place a more generous mark up on bonds than say lpl…where max usually is 2 points…{they say depending on maturity but average kinda comes to under 2 points} is that true for all other places…i mean rj/wachovia etc or is lpl more conservative…i never even thought of wachovia before this discussion so thanks for that input…

just another thought…i understand that with lpl u get to brand urself…so say ur xyz company…i am told that clients checks still have to be made out to lpl not ur brand name…wouldnt that be a little confusing…then whats the purpose of branding…if u safekeep securities at lpl…have clients make checks out to lpl…how r “u” independent…? i read the discussion on forming ur own ria…but isnt that only for fee based…if u r 95% commission oriented{mark up/mark down in my case} what would the best route be…from what i can gather …indy model with b/d {lpl or rj} seems best…am i missing something here…

Jeno1000,

You can brand yourself with both firms...I believe LP requires it.  They both also demand that the checks are written to the BD for compliance reasons.  I've chosen to use the RAJ name but a good buddy uses his own brand.

I think RJ has more syndicate offering but I could be wrong.  RJ also has MFD research and something called a Freedom acct. that is fee-based and has a mix of funds that are changed by the firm for your clients...if you want to go down that path.

Both firms have their pros and cons...you just need to find the one that fits the way you do or plan to do biz.

Leave with class. I ABSOLUTELY disagree with the comment to fight unfair- maybe when you are soliciting the business, but not by taking unauthorized stuff.

Don't worry about arbitration- you will need to give them a reason to go after you as it is less common and some firms even have protocol agreements to ensure a "clean fight" without the TRO/suit hassle.

Branding- are you the brand? Do you think you should be? If yes, then I know LPL and Wachovia FiNet allow it- don't know about Ray Jay.

A good firm will guide you though you are ultimately responsible for the liability and settlement. If it gets to that, then I've been told you can expect to pay 10-20% of your T-12. A good firm will loan you the money- or at least the one we chose will, though we are fortunate to be a protocol participant with them so it's a non-event.

jeno, I didn't face any TRO when I left, but I know another guy who left employment for LPL, was hit with a TRO, and yes, LPL did hire the lawyer and assist with legal/settlement fees.  If this guy is to be believed, LPL was very generous in sharing the costs of the legal action (they were also named in the action).  In my friend's case, the suit was filed in the B/D's city/state, but my friend never had to appear...LPL's atty appeared on behalf of him and it was settled prior to arbitration.  Incidentally, arbitration was to be held close to the rep's home turf if it happened.

On the name issue, LPL will allow you to use their name, but I wouldn't use anyone's name but mine.  It's not that hard to explain that your B/D has custody of all assets and thus, the checks must be written out to them.  If you use your name, and later decide to change B/Ds, the transition in the client's eyes is much less dramatic since your name doesn't change.

Finally, if you're 95% commission based, then no, an RIA makes no sense for you.

I left a bank many years ago and it was smooth.  However, they
withheld about $12,000 from my final pay becasue all of the annuities I
placed my last month of employement were issued after I left. 
They were required to pay me for them, but refused.  I called the
managing director himself, and he told me he was well aware they owed
me that money and if I wanted it to pursue legal action…the cost of
which would likely exceed the pay.  I was blown away with his
statement.  I did, and I got it back along with my legal
costs…it took 9 months, but that was the mentaity of bank
management.  I fell out of line so I was to be punished like a
puppy peeing on the carpet.

I haven’t dealt with LPL specifically, but you’re probably on the right track by dealing closely with the firm’s transition people.

With one exception… hire your own attorney.  Now.  You’re starting a business and entering into a contract.  You should have an attorney involved from the beginning.  (Be sure it’s somebody who understands the way our industry works).

If you were going to another wirehouse, I’d tell you to call me. 
However, there are lots of other recruiters who work just with indy
firms.  If one of them was involved with finding you, then they can also be another good source of information about the transition.  Don’t let them take their fee and run.  Make them earn it by helping you every step of the way.

Finally, every hiring manager I’ve ever worked with tells me that they want a classy, but fast, transition.  There may be an exception if they know your old BOM is a psycho or something.  But when in doubt, do the classy thing.  Make sure that everybody knows that this is business, not personal.

Well said Jeff. I usually refuse to work with recruiters because 99% of the time, I don't find them to do anymore than drop me a name, a poor/fair profile, and then wait for the big check.

I like how you approached this issue and answered the question with an emphasis on making the recruiter the consultant- something I try to be to my prospects as well.  You will be getting a call from me-

[quote=rightway]I left a bank many years ago and it was smooth.  However, they withheld about $12,000 from my final pay becasue all of the annuities I placed my last month of employement were issued after I left.  They were required to pay me for them, but refused.  I called the managing director himself, and he told me he was well aware they owed me that money and if I wanted it to pursue legal action...the cost of which would likely exceed the pay.  I was blown away with his statement.  I did, and I got it back along with my legal costs...it took 9 months, but that was the mentaity of bank management.  I fell out of line so I was to be punished like a puppy peeing on the carpet. [/quote]

Sadly, that sounds like typical bank management to me.  For those of you still in the bank channel, I'll submit that 80-90% of you will eventually discover that the bankers in charge are jealous, greedy (and stupid, for that matter) people who are only interested in how much profit you generate for the bank.

thanks guys…will keep u posted …planning on a jan transition…seems like i have more questions every passing day…if u r indy…u r not double taxed r u…one for urself and again for the corp{llc}…also in a b/d all phone calls to and from clients are recorded for both the rep’s and the clients protection if u r indy and workin from home how do u arrange that…or is it necessary…lastly is working from home a good idea if ur a one man operation with more than 80% clients out of state…do u lose any credibility due to the fact…i can afford an office but just want to keep costs as down as possible during the initial months…

thanks guys…will keep u posted …planning on a jan transition Wow…transitioning in January?!!  You are a glutton for punishment.  …seems like i have more questions every passing day…if u r indy…u r not double taxed r u…one for urself and again for the corp{llc} No…set up an S-corp and the earnings are passed through to you at the personal level…no corporate taxes.  Also, your SALARY is taxed for social security and medicare taxes, but the EARNINGS from your company passed through to you are not. So if you are netting $10,000/month, pay yourself $3,000/month and pass the rest through as earnings/owner withdrawals…this saves you a bunch in sicoal security/medicare taxes.  (Although I am a CPA, please clear all of this with your tax advisor, as I don’t have sufficient information about your state domicile, etc. to say for sure that this will work for you).  also in a b/d all phone calls to and from clients are recorded for both the rep’s and the clients protection if u r indy and workin from home how do u arrange that…or is it necessary How do you record conversations on your cell phone now?  Heck, I don’t know if it’s necessary or not…I guess it is if you get sued and are trying to prove something in a court of law.  Better to try to work with people who won’t sue you.  …lastly is working from home a good idea if ur a one man operation with more than 80% clients out of state…do u lose any credibility due to the fact…i can afford an office but just want to keep costs as down as possible during the initial months…That’s a matter of opinion.  Some clients will care, some will not, but in any event, I would only do it temporarily.  Some others, such as Babbling Looney and joedabrkr work successfully from the home, but I would tell you that in most instances, it is a challenge to do so and maintain a professional atmosphere.  If you work out of your home, I would make it clear that you are in the process of securing office space, and I would also have a separate business line that is always answered professionally…preferably not by your 4-year-old. 

I don't work from home. I have a very nice office in a professional office complex that houses a mortgage brokerage, a real estate office and a tax preparer. 

I did work from home for the first 6 months of transition while my office space was being remodeled.  You do lose credibility when you work from home IMHO.  My clients who came with me when I moved were understanding of the temporary situation, but it was permanent I don't think that they would have confidence in my long term prospects as a financial advisor. I hated it because my home never felt like my own personal space. My husband hated it because he couldn't come home for lunch without checking first to see if I had clients.  My business really picked up when I moved into my office and I felt better when I could separate my business from my personal space.

Phone calls were not recorded in the B/D I worked for before I became independent and they aren't now either.  I manually record notes about every conversation with clients in my customer contact program.  Take detailed notes of who, what, when, where and print them out every 6 months to put a hard copy in the client's files.

The S Corporation is a very good suggestion for managing your own taxes.

Sorry, Babs...my bad memory.  For the record, I think Joe is looking at transitioning to outside office space also...

...bottom line is, I think professional office space is the best answer, but I think your clients would be OK with you working out of your house for awhile while you look for office space.

I agree with Indyone- professionalism equates to an office- ie. the perception of a professional workplace. This probably depends on the clientele you are trying to attract but if it’s affluent Americans- they don’t want to see you in your pajamas (a little light humor, but you get my drift)

[quote=babbling looney]

I don’t work from home. I have a very nice office in a professional office complex that houses a mortgage brokerage, a real estate office and a tax preparer. 

I did work from home for the first 6 months of transition while my office space was being remodeled.  You do lose credibility when you work from home IMHO.  My clients who came with me when I moved were understanding of the temporary situation, but it was permanent I don't think that they would have confidence in my long term prospects as a financial advisor. I hated it because my home never felt like my own personal space. My husband hated it because he couldn't come home for lunch without checking first to see if I had clients.  My business really picked up when I moved into my office and I felt better when I could separate my business from my personal space.

Phone calls were not recorded in the B/D I worked for before I became independent and they aren't now either.  I manually record notes about every conversation with clients in my customer contact program.  Take detailed notes of who, what, when, where and print them out every 6 months to put a hard copy in the client's files.

The S Corporation is a very good suggestion for managing your own taxes.

[quote=joedabrkr]

Indy is correct, that currently I am working out of a home office, and that I am seeking office space.  Actually I rather like it for the most part, as I spend absolutely no time on commuting, and when I'm not having client meetings I can dress as casually as I like.  Lunch or a snack or a cup of coffee are merely steps away, and when I occasionally take a break I can visit with my dogs for amusement.

It was also nice to not have to worry about overhead, but largely was a consequence of my coordinating a cross-country move for the family.  Now that we are settled in on that front, I'm realizing that to take things to the next level I need an office space for staff and to meet with clients.  So that's going to happen in the next six months at most.

Keep in mind that I was moving over clients whom I'd largely known for years, and had a rationale for the home office setup that I could explain very logically to them.  Too, it is a separate dedicated space that is in a remote part of the house.  I have a business phone line that rings only in the office, a separate fax line, and extremely high speed internet acces. IT might work for you, or it might not.  It has some advantages, no doubt.  Not, however, a long term answer for most folks.
[/quote]

You're chasing your stories Joe Boy.  Several weeks ago you were asking if you should buy the office building where you have your office, now you're saying you work out of a remote part of your home.

Over the years I've known several people who worked out of their homes.  The only one I can think of who actually was good at it was a guy who represented Panasonic--a manufacturers rep.

Among the others was an attorney who practiced real estate closings and conducted them at real estate offices so it was not obvious that he didn't have an office.  He, like so many, ended up failing because it's just too easy to screw around when you work in the house.

The argument that you don't have to commute becomes you don't have to get dressed, which then becomes you don't have to bathe, which then becomes you don't have to get up at all.

The idea that the refrigerator is nearby causes you to pack on the pounds, the idea that the wife and kids are around the corner causes you to knock off early.

Then there's the social side of the equation.  Having a home office is a very solitary lifestyle.  Even if you do enjoy your own company more than anybody else's never seeing other people can turn you into an introvert, costing you enormously because eventually you just sit around and stare at market information thinking you're doing what you're supposed to be doing.

90% of this business is maintaining the proper mental attitude, day after day.  The reason that brokerage firms build palaces as offices is to impress clients, but it is also to cause the brokers to think that they are special.

At most firms you start in the bull pen, then get an inner office without a window, then an outer office with a window, and finally a corner office--it's all part of the motivation.

If you're in a spare bedroom, or above the garage, or in the basement you're not going to be motivated--in fact it is very easy to become demotivated to the point that you simply stop trying at all.

Forget what the customers may think--which is never positive--think what you will think.

Also, never forget that your spouse--no matter  how much you love each other--enjoys time alone.  Often that time alone is when you are at work--but if you're not gone they're not alone.

If you're in a spare bedroom, or above the garage, or in the basement you're not going to be motivated--in fact it is very easy to become demotivated to the point that you simply stop trying at all.

Forget what the customers may think--which is never positive--think what you will think.

This is very true, at least for myself.  I found it much too easy to be distracted at home and sidelined by things that I would rather be doing.  Do I want to cold call new prospects and old clients, always a really fun task........ or decide that creme brulee would be nice with dinner..... or maybe looking out the window I really should move the day lilies and water the geraniums and by the way....or, well you get the idea.

I had to force myself to get up at an early hour; get dressed as if I were going to work, put on the make up and jewelery.  Lazy clothes make for lazy work habits.  If I were dressed at least, it made it a harder decision to get up and do the chores/fun stuff I just detailed, plus if you decide to go to the post office and other chores you will meet with people in your professional attire and not jeans.

Also, never forget that your spouse--no matter  how much you love each other--enjoys time alone.  Often that time alone is when you are at work--but if you're not gone they're not alone.

How can I miss you if you won't go away?  Actually this is true too.  My husband has a job that takes him from the house most of the day, but when he wanted to come home to change clothes, grab a snack and get his messages, it was annoying if I had a client.  He never felt that the house was our home while I was working at home and neither did I.

Bottom line, working from home sucks.  Sure, you will save some on overhead but the downside outweighs any advantages.  Of course one advantage was that the wholesalers couldn't just drop in and eat up my time.

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone]

You're chasing your stories Joe Boy.  Several weeks ago you were asking if you should buy the office building where you have your office, now you're saying you work out of a remote part of your home.  Oh Newbie Putsy you dumbass, once again you think you have me all figured out but your poor reading comprehension(and deteriorating memory) have failed you once again.  If you care to go back and re-read the post, I did not claim it was the building where I had my office.  Rather, it was an office condo that I could buy and then establish my office there.  Get your facts straight.

Over the years I've known several people who worked out of their homes.   Just curious, did any of them admit to knowing you?  Ironic thing is that you had an office for many years, yet no work was done there.

Among the others was an attorney who practiced real estate closings and conducted them at real estate offices so it was not obvious that he didn't have an office.  He, like so many, ended up failing because it's just too easy to screw around when you work in the house.

The argument that you don't have to commute becomes you don't have to get dressed, which then becomes you don't have to bathe, which then becomes you don't have to get up at all.  I do enjoy the ability to dress casual when I want, and don't miss the time wasted on the road to the office.  Other than that you pretty much have it all wrong.  But, as usual, you KNOW that you have it all figured out.  One thing that is consistent about you is your arrogance.

The idea that the refrigerator is nearby causes you to pack on the pounds, the idea that the wife and kids are around the corner causes you to knock off early.  It can be tempting, especially for people who have no discipline or self control.  I am not one of those people.

Then there's the social side of the equation.  Having a home office is a very solitary lifestyle.  Even if you do enjoy your own company more than anybody else's never seeing other people can turn you into an introvert, costing you enormously because eventually you just sit around and stare at market information thinking you're doing what you're supposed to be doing.  It is true that every now and then I find it to be lonely, but those occasions are quite rare.  In reality I have PLENTY to keep me busy, plus plenty of clients to call on the phone, and meetings whenever I like to schedule them.  I don't really miss the social side of the equation, especially since most of the "social side" involved "office friends" who weren't really friends dropping by to waste my time!"

90% of this business is maintaining the proper mental attitude, day after day.  The reason that brokerage firms build palaces as offices is to impress clients, but it is also to cause the brokers to think that they are special.  I don't generally need external superficial validation to remind me that I'm special.  (Unlike yourself who takes every opportunity to trumpet his supposed "specialness" from the rooftops.)  Funny, too, the rare occasions I feel a little blue a client usually calls and says something really nice that picks me up.

At most firms you start in the bull pen, then get an inner office without a window, then an outer office with a window, and finally a corner office--it's all part of the motivation.  Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt.  I gain plenty of motivation when I get my paycheck, and when I reflect upon the fact that the business is MINE, and that I no longer have to deal with middle management time-wasting serfs like you.  And when I select my own office space in the next 6 months or so it will have a window, be in the building that I choose, and be decorated however I want.

If you're in a spare bedroom, or above the garage, or in the basement you're not going to be motivated--in fact it is very easy to become demotivated to the point that you simply stop trying at all.  Perhaps for pikers like you it's easy to become demotivated, Newbie.  For me it's worked fine for about a year now.

Forget what the customers may think--which is never positive--think what you will think.

Also, never forget that your spouse--no matter  how much you love each other--enjoys time alone.  Often that time alone is when you are at work--but if you're not gone they're not alone.

Interesting how Newbie/Putsy/Soon2BGone has nothing more to say on the matter when he is once again called out on his inaccurate statements…

Joeboy, it's been less than a year since you jumped from PaineWebber rather than get fired.  You have yet to get out of your bonus room with your "business."

Get back with me when you're a success.

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone]

Joeboy, it’s been less than a year since you jumped from PaineWebber rather than get fired.  You have yet to get out of your bonus room with your “business.”

Get back with me when you're a success.

[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=Soon 2 B Gone]

Joeboy, it's been less than a year since you jumped from PaineWebber rather than get fired.  You have yet to get out of your bonus room with your "business."

Get back with me when you're a success.

[/quote]

No dumbass.  In fact it has been more than a year.  Once again you are wrong.
[/quote]

But you've still to rise to mediocrity--I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone]

Joeboy, it’s been less than a year since you jumped from PaineWebber rather than get fired.  You have yet to get out of your bonus room with your “business.”

Get back with me when you're a success.

Do you figure that every guy who is over sixty, with more than thirty years in the business is fired?

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone]

Do you figure that every guy who is over sixty, with more than thirty years in the business is fired?

[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=Soon 2 B Gone]

Do you figure that every guy who is over sixty, with more than thirty years in the business is fired?

[/quote]

nope, just dead weight like you....
[/quote]

You meet the best people in this business and board.

[quote=Seeker15][quote=joedabrkr] [quote=Soon 2 B Gone]

Do you figure that every guy who is over sixty, with more than thirty years in the business is fired?

[/quote]

nope, just dead weight like you....
[/quote]

You meet the best people in this business and board.

[quote=joedabrkr]

[quote=Seeker15][quote=joedabrkr] [quote=Soon 2 B Gone]

Do you figure that every guy who is over sixty, with more than thirty years in the business is fired?

[/quote]

nope, just dead weight like you....
[/quote]

You meet the best people in this business and board.

[quote=JCadieux]

[quote=joedabrkr]

[quote=Seeker15][quote=joedabrkr] [quote=Soon 2 B Gone]

Do you figure that every guy who is over sixty, with more than thirty years in the business is fired?

[/quote]

nope, just dead weight like you....
[/quote]

You meet the best people in this business and board.

[quote=joedabrkr]

Do I sense a hint of sarcasm there Jeff?

Nobody is forcing you to read it if it’s that tiresome…
[/quote]

I suspect that fewer and fewer people do read it.

We see the same pattern over and over.  Somebody asks a good question.  There is a mix of amusing and serious answers.  Finally the discussion degrades into 3 or 4 pages of off-topic arguments about who’s a loser and who has the biggest… um…  book.

The serious responses get buried and the thread grinds to a halt.

I post on this forum because I like it, and because I get good candidate referrals.  I’m not secretive about my agenda, because I contribute in a material way without any expectation of quid-pro-quo.

I don’t expect you to change.  I just thought it was time somebody pointed out the decline of an otherwise useful and interesting forum.

No need to respond.  I doubt if many of the serious members are still reading this thread, anyway.

[quote=JCadieux] [quote=joedabrkr]

Do I sense a hint of sarcasm there Jeff?

Nobody is forcing you to read it if it's that tiresome.....
[/quote]

I suspect that fewer and fewer people do read it.

We see the same pattern over and over.  Somebody asks a good question.  There is a mix of amusing and serious answers.  Finally the discussion degrades into 3 or 4 pages of off-topic arguments about who's a loser and who has the biggest... um...  book.

The serious responses get buried and the thread grinds to a halt.

I post on this forum because I like it, and because I get good candidate referrals.  I'm not secretive about my agenda, because I contribute in a material way without any expectation of quid-pro-quo.

I don't expect you to change.  I just thought it was time somebody pointed out the decline of an otherwise useful and interesting forum.

No need to respond.  I doubt if many of the serious members are still reading this thread, anyway.

[/quote]

I tried to read it, but because you guys didn't use colors to elucidate your barbs, quite frankly, I found it difficult to follow and soon lost interest. Where's Mike when you need him. Oh yeah, he's working.

Man, it's a slow day.

[quote=BondGuy]

Man, it's a slow day.

[/quote]

Not for me--I've been busy as a beaver jockying into a pretzel as I await Yahoo earnings and then the big boy on Thursday.

The market can be so much fun, it's a shame that the "modern" advsior is nothing more than an asset gatherer who turns the money over to others to run.  What a dull job it must be these days.

Heard Jim Cramer say awhile ago that he's "scared" because the short interest is so low--should the bids dry up due to some event there won't even be support to stop a crash in the form of short covering.

The Dow will go through 11,000 before it goes through 12,000 if it doesn't get there today.

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone][quote=BondGuy]

Man, it's a slow day.

[/quote]

Not for me--I've been busy as a beaver jockying into a pretzel as I await Yahoo earnings and then the big boy on Thursday.

The market can be so much fun, it's a shame that the "modern" advsior is nothing more than an asset gatherer who turns the money over to others to run.  What a dull job it must be these days.

Heard Jim Cramer say awhile ago that he's "scared" because the short interest is so low--should the bids dry up due to some event there won't even be support to stop a crash in the form of short covering.

The Dow will go through 11,000 before it goes through 12,000 if it doesn't get there today.

[/quote]

Yeah, the days of day trading and position building were action packed. Then again, not being able to take a piss was a real downer.  As was being valued as being only as good as your last pick. I give you that picking winners is what it's about, but the whining when the risk management system kicked in was enough to make me leave my desk for that long overdue stand at the urinal. When you can't differentiate between the stream leaving your body and what you are talking to on the phone, it's time for a change.

[quote=haRDcorp]

Well said Jeff. I usually refuse to work with recruiters because 99% of the time, I don't find them to do anymore than drop me a name, a poor/fair profile, and then wait for the big check.

I like how you approached this issue and answered the question with an emphasis on making the recruiter the consultant- something I try to be to my prospects as well.  You will be getting a call from me-

[/quote] The "let's throw mud to the wall and hope that some sticks" mentality is growing old and tired.  Advisors and managers are looking for value-added people to associate with.

Those in this business that are simply passing along a name, number and production stats are finding that they are losing the battle, even with the heightened competition for top producers.

[quote=JCadieux]
I suspect that fewer and fewer people do read it.

We see the same pattern over and over.  Somebody asks a good question.  There is a mix of amusing and serious answers.  Finally the discussion degrades into 3 or 4 pages of off-topic arguments about who's a loser and who has the biggest... um...  book.

[/quote]

I have the biggest... um... book.

[quote=JCadieux]

[quote=joedabrkr]

Do I sense a hint of sarcasm there Jeff?

Nobody is forcing you to read it if it’s that tiresome…
[/quote]

I suspect that fewer and fewer people do read it.

We see the same pattern over and over.  Somebody asks a good question.  There is a mix of amusing and serious answers.  Finally the discussion degrades into 3 or 4 pages of off-topic arguments about who’s a loser and who has the biggest… um…  book.

The serious responses get buried and the thread grinds to a halt.

I post on this forum because I like it, and because I get good candidate referrals.  I’m not secretive about my agenda, because I contribute in a material way without any expectation of quid-pro-quo.

I don’t expect you to change.  I just thought it was time somebody pointed out the decline of an otherwise useful and interesting forum.

No need to respond.  I doubt if many of the serious members are still reading this thread, anyway.




[/quote]

Jeff perhaps at times the dialogue is not as constructive as it could be.  At times I even contribute to that.  For the most part, however, I  think you can lay blame at the feet of our ever-present troll, PutTrader/Soon2BGone, who finds it necessary to hold forth on just about every topic, even those about which he knows absolutely nothing.

Believe it or not, however, it has been even worse in the past.

In any case, I’ll keep your comments in mind.

[quote=joedabrkr]

[quote=JCadieux]

[quote=joedabrkr]

Do I sense a hint of sarcasm there Jeff?

Nobody is forcing you to read it if it’s that tiresome…
[/quote]

I suspect that fewer and fewer people do read it.

We see the same pattern over and over.  Somebody asks a good question.  There is a mix of amusing and serious answers.  Finally the discussion degrades into 3 or 4 pages of off-topic arguments about who’s a loser and who has the biggest… um…  book.

The serious responses get buried and the thread grinds to a halt.

I post on this forum because I like it, and because I get good candidate referrals.  I’m not secretive about my agenda, because I contribute in a material way without any expectation of quid-pro-quo.

I don’t expect you to change.  I just thought it was time somebody pointed out the decline of an otherwise useful and interesting forum.

No need to respond.  I doubt if many of the serious members are still reading this thread, anyway.




[/quote]

Jeff perhaps at times the dialogue is not as constructive as it could be.  At times I even contribute to that.  For the most part, however, I  think you can lay blame at the feet of our ever-present troll, PutTrader/Soon2BGone, who finds it necessary to hold forth on just about every topic, even those about which he knows absolutely nothing.

Believe it or not, however, it has been even worse in the past.

In any case, I’ll keep your comments in mind.
[/quote]


Joe-

Thanks for listening.

You’re absolutely right- I could have focused my criticism on a wide variety of characters.

Perhaps I vented my frustrations at you because you’re one of the few with sufficient intelligence and insight to listen, care and perhaps change.

This forum won’t be around long if all the good people follow WhatsHisName over the cliff.