2010 Looks Fairly Bleak For Brokers
BROKER’S WORLD: 2010 Looks Fairly Bleak For Brokers
Yahoo Buzz
By Annie Gasparro A DOW JONES NEWSWIRES COLUMN
NEW YORK (Dow Jones)–The markets may have bounced back, but the outlook for many financial advisers remains decidedly bleak.
Industry consolidation, hits to compensation, lost client assets and regulatory uncertainty all are still shaking up what was, not so long ago, a booming and lucrative profession. And then, of course, there are the cutbacks in perks that advisers once took for granted.
“There’s still a lot of doom and gloom among brokers,” said Matthew Bienfang, senior research director specializing in wealth management at TowerGroup, a financial-services research firm. "From a compensation standpoint, there are a lot of problems they are still facing."
Advisers at Morgan Stanley Smith Barney, Bank of America Corp.‘s (BAC) Merrill Lynch and Wells Fargo Advisors are working their way through the joint ventures and acquisitions that reshaped the industry last year. UBS AG’s (UBS) U.S. wealth-management group is adjusting to a new management regime and strategy.
All are having to find their way amid new management structures, revised pay scales and different fee schedules.
Hurt worst by the compensation changes are advisers who bring in less business, while top earners’ pay was cushioned by the brokerages’ efforts to keep them in the fold. “There is a shrinking pool of experienced advisers, so it is expensive to get them and to keep them,” said Dennis Gallant, president of GDC Research, a financial-services consulting firm.
Gallant said he expects the industry’s good times to return relatively quickly, as the economy does. “It’s amazing how easily people forget,” he said.
That may be little consolation right now, when losses in client assets continue to sting even some of the best brokers. While the rise in stocks has improved client accounts, many brokers saw clients simply walk away in the crisis and take their assets with them. Many wealthy clients decided to split up their investments among more than one adviser.
To make up for the losses, successful brokers have had to go back to something they haven’t done since their early years in the profession: Focus more time on client acquisition.
The brokerage industry has long been known for the incentives it lavishes on brokers, including luxurious vacations, fancy dinners or hot-ticket events. Nearly every major brokerage has cut back on these. Some are cancelling vacation awards entirely, or moving them to domestic locations like Florida instead of a more distant, and costly, island stay.
Advisers who once spent their time wining and dining clients at business luncheons and on golf greens are now seeing their entertainment budgets slashed, too.
“We can’t even do all the charity events that we used to sponsor, and those were great for prospecting” potential clients, said a Merrill Lynch adviser in the Midwest.
Some advisers paying for this kind of activity out of their own pockets–that is, when they can get out of the office. For the past year and a half, since the markets started melting down, brokers’ phones have been ringing off the hook and talking to existing clients has claimed much more of their time.
“It is an ongoing relationship struggle for advisers,” Bienfang said. "Most investors are still hesitant to really trust their adviser."
Brokers are also awaiting expected regulatory reforms that are expected to result in a more uniform ethical standard. Most expect brokers, who now are required to pick suitable but not necessarily the best investments for clients, to see their standard raised to the fiduciary level–that is, a requirement that they always act in the client’s best interest. Exactly how that is enforced could mean major changes, or not, for brokerages.
“Regulation is the biggest piece of the puzzle, and there is still a lot of uncertainty as to where that is going to land,” Bienfang said.
(Annie Gasparro writes about financial advisers and their jobs, with a focus on the challenges brokers face as the industry moves from traditional stock brokerage to high-net-worth wealth management. She can be reached at 212-416-2244 or by email at [email protected].)
What world does she live in? How many of you had entertainment budgets? How many of your phones rang off the hook last year?
Her point of view is that 2010 is bleak? I guess that depends on what's going on between your ears. I see 2010 just like I did 2009 - an opportunity. There are still lazy brokers and dissatisfied clients. That means ACAT opportunities for the guy who decides to pull his head out of the sand (or a spot that's much darker and more fragrant) and get to work gathering assets.[quote=Spaceman Spiff]What world does she live in? How many of you had entertainment budgets? How many of your phones rang off the hook last year?
Her point of view is that 2010 is bleak? I guess that depends on what's going on between your ears. I see 2010 just like I did 2009 - an opportunity. There are still lazy brokers and dissatisfied clients. That means ACAT opportunities for the guy who decides to pull his head out of the sand (or a spot that's much darker and more fragrant) and get to work gathering assets. [/quote] Agreed...100%. People are looking for answers. I can't believe how many assets are in old employers retirement plans. Many clients haven't even heard from their advisor.Relinquish your assets now. It’s too hard. This is not a rewarding career. There’s more opportunity in China.
[quote=snaggletooth][quote=Spaceman Spiff]What world does she live in? How many of you had entertainment budgets? How many of your phones rang off the hook last year?
Her point of view is that 2010 is bleak? I guess that depends on what's going on between your ears. I see 2010 just like I did 2009 - an opportunity. There are still lazy brokers and dissatisfied clients. That means ACAT opportunities for the guy who decides to pull his head out of the sand (or a spot that's much darker and more fragrant) and get to work gathering assets. [/quote] Agreed...100%. People are looking for answers. I can't believe how many assets are in old employers retirement plans. Many clients haven't even heard from their advisor. [/quote] You are not prospecting!!!! I have been doing this for some time and this is the HARDEST period I have ever lived through trying to attain new clents.Yes I am. People are looking for answers. They just don’t want to hear the same old story as their last guy told them. It might be a difference between offering them ETFs instead of funds or an annuity with an income benefit vs straight funds. Or something different like it’s OK to be 80% bonds if that’s what your risk tolerance is.
I'm not about to say it's easy. It's not. But people just simply don't know what to do now. The person who can figure out what each person wants to hear is going to be incredibly successful at gathering assets.[quote=Spaceman Spiff]Yes I am. People are looking for answers. They just don’t want to hear the same old story as their last guy told them. It might be a difference between offering them ETFs instead of funds or an annuity with an income benefit vs straight funds. Or something different like it’s OK to be 80% bonds if that’s what your risk tolerance is.
I'm not about to say it's easy. It's not. But people just simply don't know what to do now. The person who can figure out what each person wants to hear is going to be incredibly successful at gathering assets. [/quote] Amen brother. BigKahuna...you're so far off base I don't know where to begin. Case in point: A couple that is working and living overseas found me online and emailed me. After a quick exchange of emails, they met with me over the holidays when they were in town. They are retiring in June and moving back here. They have $400,000 to invest. His first words essentially were, "Let's not waste each other's time, let's not bullsh*t each other". So I say, "Look, I can show you a way that will protect your retirement income while allowing it to potentially grow. Even if it doesn't grow, you will have guaranteed income that will last you and your wife's life. My time is just as valuable as yours, so I'm not going to bullsh*t you. I do think I can legitimately help you". So we met. In the meeting, I show him some annuity strategies. I tell him, "Let's cut out the fluff. You will pay an extra 1-1.5% in fees for this. But you don't have to have the same results you've always gotten in the past. This is different, this will protect your income and lock in the gains for your income". It's simple BigKahuna. People ARE looking for answers. They just don't want to hear what they've always heard. Spiff, you're right.[quote=snaggletooth][quote=Spaceman Spiff]Yes I am. People are looking for answers. They just don’t want to hear the same old story as their last guy told them. It might be a difference between offering them ETFs instead of funds or an annuity with an income benefit vs straight funds. Or something different like it’s OK to be 80% bonds if that’s what your risk tolerance is.
I'm not about to say it's easy. It's not. But people just simply don't know what to do now. The person who can figure out what each person wants to hear is going to be incredibly successful at gathering assets. [/quote] Amen brother. BigKahuna...you're so far off base I don't know where to begin. Case in point: A couple that is working and living overseas found me online and emailed me. After a quick exchange of emails, they met with me over the holidays when they were in town. They are retiring in June and moving back here. They have $400,000 to invest. His first words essentially were, "Let's not waste each other's time, let's not bullsh*t each other". So I say, "Look, I can show you a way that will protect your retirement income while allowing it to potentially grow. Even if it doesn't grow, you will have guaranteed income that will last you and your wife's life. My time is just as valuable as yours, so I'm not going to bullsh*t you. I do think I can legitimately help you". So we met. In the meeting, I show him some annuity strategies. I tell him, "Let's cut out the fluff. You will pay an extra 1-1.5% in fees for this. But you don't have to have the same results you've always gotten in the past. This is different, this will protect your income and lock in the gains for your income". It's simple BigKahuna. People ARE looking for answers. They just don't want to hear what they've always heard. Spiff, you're right.[/quote]Interesting, the last three big clients that contacted us found us this way.
Word. I estimate our online marketing probably accounted for between $75k-$100k of gross last year.Interesting, the last three big clients that contacted us found us this way.
All good points. Maybe old school selling is the way to go. Sell’em what they want, not what they need. ( Also, that is not a jab. I don’t want it misinterpreted) I think you all make good points. I stand corrected
I don't find that statement to be true. For instance, when I talk to clients about alternative investments, I show them charts that start and end at the same spot. What happens inbetween the charts is where they differ...which is volatility in this example. Our clients have money, need income to support themselves, then will die and pass along money if there is any left. They will all take different routes to get there, but they start and end at the same point. Unless you totally F their situation up, the small details of how you go about doing something doesn't matter as much as getting them to at least DO something. If it takes giving them a solution that they want, you do it.All good points. Maybe old school selling is the way to go. Sell’em what they want, not what they need. ( Also, that is not a jab. I don’t want it misinterpreted) I think you all make good points. I stand corrected
[quote=BigKahuna]
You are not prospecting!!!! I have been doing this for some time and this is the HARDEST period I have ever lived through trying to attain new clents.[/quote] That's because you're a blow hard piker. It's never been easier. I've been getting referrals left and right from people like your clients.That is exactly what one would expect from you. Go churn what's left in your book piker boy.All good points. Maybe old school selling is the way to go. Sell’em what they want, not what they need.
Love fee day. Up nearly 20% from last QT. Good market and good referrals
[quote=Hydeho] Love fee day. Up nearly 20% from last QT. Good market and good referrals
[/quote]
aint that the truth
[quote=Shania Twain] [quote=Hydeho] Love fee day. Up nearly 20% from last QT. Good market and good referrals
[/quote]
aint that the truth [/quote]
We are all going to make a ton of money this year. By “We” I mean the Advisors that didn’t hide under their desks last year. As tough as it was, the guys that were proactive in reaching out to their clients to calm their fears and keep the assets…congrats! And for those of us that got after it over the last 12 months, the assets have been flowing in from other firms.
Time to cash in brothers…cha ching!
[quote=Gaddock][quote=BigKahuna]
You are not prospecting!!!! I have been doing this for some time and this is the HARDEST period I have ever lived through trying to attain new clents.[/quote] That's because you're a blow hard piker. It's never been easier. I've been getting referrals left and right from people like your clients. [/quote] Your future. Don't PM me either LOSER!!!!That is exactly what one would expect from you. Go churn what's left in your book piker boy. [/quote] I said STOP PM'ing me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Just so everyone here knows......this guy gave me his name, phone number and address and has continually asked me to make love to him the way his high school boyfriend Billy did. Dude, you are sick and no matter what you type on here the answer is NO![quote=BigKahuna]All good points. Maybe old school selling is the way to go. Sell’em what they want, not what they need.
Really so lets share it then piker boy he he he. You’re so full of sh*t you can’t even keep up with you own pathetic reality.
Why do you always resort to some sick homosexual blather? What's up with that? So your slapped with the reality of being a piker so the first thing that comes in your head is homosexual sex acts? Don't you find that strange? Don't you have better things to do just before the open?Um, getting back on topic: Speaking of bleak outlooks for 2010, how’d you like to be a beat writer for a wire news service? Hey Annie, maybe you should go back to night school and get your nursing degree.
Wow, not even going to quote anyone here, but I will give my ideas for 2010:
Older clients: But them in safe bonds and dividend paying equities. (standard) Toss some in guaranteed Variable annuities, and then about 15% in diversified REITs. Many are investing heavily in health care real estate. These REITs provide income and retain capital[quote=beddie]
Older clients: But them in safe bonds and dividend paying equities. (standard) Toss some in guaranteed Variable annuities, and then about 15% in diversified REITs. Many are investing heavily in health care real estate. These REITs provide income and retain capital
[/quote]
standard equities
they retain capital
great insight retard wtf
[quote=Gaddock]Really so lets share it then piker boy he he he. You’re so full of sh*t you can’t even keep up with you own pathetic reality.
Why do you always resort to some sick homosexual blather? What's up with that? So your slapped with the reality of being a piker so the first thing that comes in your head is homosexual sex acts? Don't you find that strange? Don't you have better things to do just before the open?[/quote] Hi rookie, The answer is still no HOMO!!Again with the fag talk. What's up with that piker? Do you answer everything with fag talk?
[quote=Gaddock]
Again with the fag talk. What's up with that piker? Do you answer everything with fag talk?
[/quote] Hello again rookie, Still no dice queer boy Again, you are a liar and a phony.......I don't believe a word you say rookie. Ask me anything about PIM, qualifications, how much to charge, how to trade, I don't care I am legit and can prove it. You are a LOSER and a HOMO!!!!!This year will be bleak for some and for some they will do very well.Totally depends on that persons situation.
Morale in my office sucks right now. Just a lot of BS coming down from my firm and people are pissed off. I very well might do less business than last year. Last year I was up slightly from 08 which I consider a miracle.
I’m not big on putting down revenue goals because in the end for me it’s just a number. I know breakpoints I need to hit so I have a general idea of where I want to be.
Most important thing to me is bringing in assets. But this business is crazy sometimes. Lost a 1.5 million dollar client today and I’m still not sure why after speaking to him. This happens sometimes. Luckily he didnt do that much business but he was a client for 15 years so it gets to you sometimes.
But I’m closing in 2 weeks on a 3.5 million 401k so that makes up for todays loss.
If I do close to what I did last year but increase my new assets by 10% I’ll be happy. Also am in the process of meeting with my b and c book to try and develop the relationships further because I’ve also started firing some clients because I just dont need the BS anymore
I’m a glass half empty person so some days it seems bleak but by the end of the year if I’ve brought in new clients and substantial assets I’ll be happy. Then the vicious cycle starts again in january next year
[quote=BigKahuna][quote=Gaddock]
Again with the fag talk. What's up with that piker? Do you answer everything with fag talk?
[/quote] Hello again rookie, Still no dice queer boy Again, you are a liar and a phony.......I don't believe a word you say rookie. Ask me anything about PIM, qualifications, how much to charge, how to trade, I don't care I am legit and can prove it. You are a LOSER and a HOMO!!!!![/quote] More fag talk from mrs. piker are you developmentally retarded? Are you that freak that runs that other BBS that claimed he was a huge producer but didn't have a license? Is that you Brent?[quote=NY Guy]
Lost a 1.5 million dollar client today and I’m still not sure why after speaking to him. This happens sometimes. he was a client for 15 years so it gets to you sometimes.
[/quote]
This is the worst part of this MF biz. I hate it.
After many years of trying to deal with this, to not take it personal, to understand that sometimes its not fair. It still sucks.
I have been very lucky and have a great business. No one client really is THAT important in my book. I still kills me.
Honestly, there is not ONE GD day in this business that I dont have these deep down fear that a dreaded dear john ACAT message or email comes.
It blows
Shania,
Your production numbers leave me in awe. I know it's totally none of my (our) business but what kind of AUM would one typically need to have such numbers?[quote=Gaddock]Shania,
Your production numbers leave me in awe. I know it's totally none of my (our) business but what kind of AUM would one typically need to have such numbers?[/quote] Hi rookie, Stop PM'ing me queerboy. SERIOUSLY. Don't worry about production new guy, but seriously quit PM'ing me!! Oh ya........HOMO!!!!![quote=BigKahuna][quote=Gaddock]Shania,
Your production numbers leave me in awe. I know it's totally none of my (our) business but what kind of AUM would one typically need to have such numbers?[/quote] Hi rookie, Stop PM'ing me queerboy. SERIOUSLY. Don't worry about production new guy, but seriously quit PM'ing me!! Oh ya........HOMO!!!!! [/quote] More fag talk from the piker he he. You sure are fascinated by me aren't you. A good percentage of your posts are chasing me around saying things a 12 year old would say. I told you I would lead you around and rattle your cage for cheap thrills but I never though it would be so easy as to become a bore. Looks like I own you ... The price tag was cheaper than your mother.[quote=Gaddock] Shania,
make fee based number one goal (leverage)
do FA managed only (pim,pmp,pspm,pia,gpm etc.)
buck stops with you
clients tied to YOU
always do what you would do for your momma (gross WILL come)
discount with a goal of keeping people till they die
lower clients expectations.
dont sell returns
TRAIN CLIENTS TO FOCUS LONG TERM
train clients to stay out
dont meet quarterly
dont talk about returns
dont brag when things good (do the reverse)
have a good allocation for each person
do everything you can to keep them on track in their plan when stuff gets rough (mar)
manage cap gains
its a marathon.
beating the risk free rate of return over many years is not easy
[quote=Shania Twain] [quote=Gaddock] Shania,
make fee based number one goal (leverage)
do FA managed only (pim,pmp,pspm,pia,gpm etc.)
buck stops with you
clients tied to YOU
always do what you would do for your momma (gross WILL come)
discount with a goal of keeping people till they die
lower clients expectations.
dont sell returns
TRAIN CLIENTS TO FOCUS LONG TERM
train clients to stay out
dont meet quarterly
dont talk about returns
dont brag when things good (do the reverse)
have a good allocation for each person
do everything you can to keep them on track in their plan when stuff gets rough (mar)
manage cap gains
its a marathon.
beating the risk free rate of return over many years is not easy [/quote] That sounds like a double dip of wisdom to me. Thanks for your thoughts.
train clients to stay out --Shania, what did you mean by this??
picking stocks, following market, giving their input, blah blah.
Train them to trust you and trust your plan. tell them their job is to live their lives.
Its hard enough to make money and be successful in the markets with totally clear vision. Its almost impossible if you have the fear, greed etc etc of the client in the mix. try to set the stage early in the relationship. that you are in charge. that you make the decisions.
What are you going to do with my XYZ?
blah blah blah.
can you send me something on ABC?
blah blah blah
you will just get mired down with stuff like this. Your judgement will be clouded trying to figure out what he/she wants etc.
Its not easy.
it takes balls.
I'm not saying being a d***, I mean setting the relationship with the best chance of success for 30 years.
Would you ask your doctor to send you something on the stent he is putting in?
or give him your MF opinion?
its hard early in relationship because they can get blown away with confirms etc. you have to stand firm that your in charge.
It takes time for them to learn and be trained.
You will lose the know-it-alls or more hands on people.
in the long run...it's worth it.
and it can be done
The people who do the best in the market (even after this horrible 10 years) are the people FARTHEST away from the ultimate paradox of investing:
"market lows are put in when you FEEL the worst and tops are put in when things look great".
(look at REAL returns on no-load funds. The timers are always wrong).
Pick your own names. learn the market. have your own plan.
and believe in it.
ITS NOT THAT HARD.
you will be much better at it then you think and there are so many ways to develop a plan that will work.
there is NO magic bullet out there.
The geniuses of the 90's got stupid in 2002-2003. Same thing in 2008.
proper allocation, staying the course, diversification-thats what beats the risk free rate of return.
look at some of the Einsteins out there that ......Bill miller, dodge and Cox, David Dreman, ken heebner etc etc that got really crushed in this melt down.
no one has a magic bullet-
Make sure asset alloctations are inline and then stick to your guns. set the expectations low. get them to commit to your plan.
I started using managers back in the day. the problem is its not YOU and the 50 BPs is too much to price stuff right for long haul.
The article takes one segment of advisors (major wirehouse) and applies it to the entire profession. I don't share this negativity at all. I took a paycut from 2007 to 2008 and again last year, but expect a substantial raise this year. Activity is very good...new assets are coming, the book is mostly annuitized and with assets up 40% from a year ago, I expect a helluva year, even though I foresee some turbulence in the 2nd half. I'm within $2 million of my all-time high in assets, so I don't feel the gloom at all. I had two clients leave last year. Both of them I assisted out the door and replaced with better clients and more assets. Bad markets do two things that are good for our industry. One - it weeds out the pikers and pretenders and leaves more for the survivors. Two - it helps advisors shed clients that are not well-suited to market-based investing. Everyone thinks their risk tolerance is high when times are good. Last year, I found out I made a couple of mistakes in assessing risk tolerance. The parting was for the most part friendly and I sure don't miss the nearly daily frantic phone calls, so in the end, the quality of my book is much higher than it was at it's peak in 2007.
All in all, I don't feel anything similar to the sentiment in the article...it's all good here in indyland.[quote=iceco1d]Seriously Kahuna,
Let it go. It's getting old. [/quote] This LOSER really is PM'ing me. Everytime I log on this asshole has a new message!!!!! It's annoying.[quote=Gaddock][quote=BigKahuna][quote=Gaddock]Shania,
Your production numbers leave me in awe. I know it's totally none of my (our) business but what kind of AUM would one typically need to have such numbers?[/quote] Hi rookie, Stop PM'ing me queerboy. SERIOUSLY. Don't worry about production new guy, but seriously quit PM'ing me!! Oh ya........HOMO!!!!! [/quote] More fag talk from the piker he he. You sure are fascinated by me aren't you. A good percentage of your posts are chasing me around saying things a 12 year old would say. I told you I would lead you around and rattle your cage for cheap thrills but I never though it would be so easy as to become a bore. Looks like I own you ... The price tag was cheaper than your mother.[/quote] LOSER LIARHOMO
yup, it could be a tough year. i’m gonna prospect like crazy. i lost a 640k account last week b/c the clients grandson just got into the business. ouch. it’s his second year, and he works for schwab. what a f***in’ insult. i’ve done so well by this client, too. you just can’t compete with blood.
btw, the entire portfolio is AA munis. this kid’s gonna blow the whole thing out and buy mutual funds…what a joke. the client has agreed to send me duplicate statements though, so it’ll be interesting to see what schwab boy does.
[quote=BigKahuna][quote=iceco1d]Seriously Kahuna,
Let it go. It's getting old. [/quote] This LOSER really is PM'ing me. Everytime I log on this asshole has a new message!!!!! It's annoying.[/quote] Still fascinated by me my little Monkey drone. 11:38PM ??? REALLY?? The last thing you do before bed is post about me?? LOLOL Keep me on your mind and dont post anything unless it's about me. Do you dream about me my little drone? After all I do own you. PMing you? I'm impressed my little drone is using independent thought to try and bait me. To bad it's the most obtuse troll ever concocted. Just stick to what I tell you drone boy.[quote=BigKahuna][quote=Gaddock][quote=BigKahuna][quote=Gaddock]Shania,
Your production numbers leave me in awe. I know it's totally none of my (our) business but what kind of AUM would one typically need to have such numbers?[/quote] Hi rookie, Stop PM'ing me queerboy. SERIOUSLY. Don't worry about production new guy, but seriously quit PM'ing me!! Oh ya........HOMO!!!!! [/quote] More fag talk from the piker he he. You sure are fascinated by me aren't you. A good percentage of your posts are chasing me around saying things a 12 year old would say. I told you I would lead you around and rattle your cage for cheap thrills but I never though it would be so easy as to become a bore. Looks like I own you ... The price tag was cheaper than your mother.[/quote] LOSER LIARHOMO[/quote] Ahhhhh yes my little drone is still doing what he's told. Run along now slave boy and obsess until you muster up some more 12 year old insults. It's your job my drone. DO WHAT YOU'RE TOLD LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
[quote=BigKahuna] [quote=snaggletooth][quote=Spaceman Spiff]What world does she live in? How many of you had entertainment budgets? How many of your phones rang off the hook last year?
Her point of view is that 2010 is bleak? I guess that depends on what’s going on between your ears. I see 2010 just like I did 2009 - an opportunity. There are still lazy brokers and dissatisfied clients. That means ACAT opportunities for the guy who decides to pull his head out of the sand (or a spot that’s much darker and more fragrant) and get to work gathering assets.
[/quote]
Agreed…100%. People are looking for answers. I can’t believe how many assets are in old employers retirement plans. Many clients haven’t even heard from their advisor. [/quote]
You are not prospecting!!! I have been doing this for some time and this is the HARDEST period I have ever lived through trying to attain new clents.[/quote]
You’re not prospecting. If you are, you aren’t good at it. There is not a better time to bring in assets. I started in Dec 08. Prospecting during this market, has been the easiest it probably ever has been. People need help, they want help, and they are mad at their current broker. You must be prospecting graveyards…or daycares.
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