Start of FA Career
I was in mortgage industry with a large bank, but unfortunately, the bank that I worked for now has a capital Q behind its ticker symbol. I’ve been out of a job for about a year and took many misteps along the way that’s gotten me into a financial jam that is going to take years for me to get out of, but I’m happy to have a job that pays for now. I was inspired by what scrims is doing and I thought I’d use this board as a tool to help me stay focused and disciplined, maybe some words of encouragement from time to time too.
I'm in a training program at EJ and should attain my "can sell" date sometime in the 2nd qtr of next year. I have previous experience in retail banking(inside a branch) and good 3 years experience in b2b sales and account/relationship management, dealing with mostly affluent small business owners(real estate/mortgage brokers/agents, etc). My business plan is, of course, to follow the EJ's path, as it is proven to work, at least for someone that's starting out new like I am. It'll be a tough road ahead, but I think the timing is great and there will be some great opportunities for growth in the next 5-10 years. That being said, I'm to earn $2500 in net comm. in 18 weeks following my can sell date to earn my own branch. Any suggestions on how I should go about it?Follow the ‘recipe,’ but beyond that go back to all your old contacts and let them know what you are doing. You will need to find between 50 and 75k investible to put into mutual funds to get that $2500. So you need to find old 401ks or dead IRAs.
Is this right? EDJ brokers are only expected to do $2500 in 4.5 months? No wonder that firm ranks so high. Everybody thinks that they are knocking the cover off of the ball!
[quote=Hank Moody]Is this right? EDJ brokers are only expected to do $2500 in 4.5 months? No wonder that firm ranks so high. Everybody thinks that they are knocking the cover off of the ball!
[/quote]
Jones hires people with no experience and no existing network. Low though the standards may appear, from what I’ve seen the first 17 weeks are the toughest and when the attrition rate is the highest.
No offense to the original poster, but there’s something on my mind that I have to ask…
Why does it seem that everyone that posts on here that is a new advisor asking for advice is some guy that has been laid off for XX years, is starting anew and is in boatloads of debt? Is our industry really filled with people who see this career as a last resort and jump in because so-and-so firm is willing to hire people w/no experience? Sometimes I get so frustrated at what the "Financial Advisor" career has become because I know damn well no other job out there has as many, if any, desperate people looking for some way out a jam.[quote=buyandhold]
[quote=Hank Moody]Is this right? EDJ brokers are only expected to do $2500 in 4.5 months? No wonder that firm ranks so high. Everybody thinks that they are knocking the cover off of the ball!
[/quote]
Jones hires people with no experience and no existing network. Low though the standards may appear, from what I’ve seen the first 17 weeks are the toughest and when the attrition rate is the highest.
[/quote]
I’ll take your word for it, but I’m just not seeing $600/month in production as a tough standard.
[quote=3rdyrp2]No offense to the original poster, but there’s something on my mind that I have to ask…
Why does it seem that everyone that posts on here that is a new advisor asking for advice is some guy that has been laid off for XX years, is starting anew and is in boatloads of debt? Is our industry really filled with people who see this career as a last resort and jump in because so-and-so firm is willing to hire people w/no experience? Sometimes I get so frustrated at what the "Financial Advisor" career has become because I know damn well no other job out there has as many, if any, desperate people looking for some way out a jam. [/quote]Because everyone that posts on here that is a new advisor asking for advice is some guy that has been laid off for XX years, is starting anew and is in boatloads of debt.
It’s not hard to get to, I got there in my second week. But for other people it took right up until the end. I think the recipe works if the following applies:
1. You are in a far suburb 2. Being in the south helps 3. There aren't 95 jones offices within 5 miles 4. You don't take the "recipe" at face value, One GP commented "that why are we only doorknocking residential? When we opened a new market we sent 50 reps into an office building and when they came out with 25 contacts they got to leave.. Why have we just focused on residential?" I think doorknocking can be a plus, but you also need to cold call and other forms of prospecting.[quote=3rdyrp2]No offense to the original poster, but there’s something on my mind that I have to ask…
Why does it seem that everyone that posts on here that is a new advisor asking for advice is some guy that has been laid off for XX years, is starting anew and is in boatloads of debt? Is our industry really filled with people who see this career as a last resort and jump in because so-and-so firm is willing to hire people w/no experience? Sometimes I get so frustrated at what the "Financial Advisor" career has become because I know damn well no other job out there has as many, if any, desperate people looking for some way out a jam. [/quote] Because they tell us up front that you're not going to make any money for three to five years and you're going to work 60 hours a week and there are no guarantees you are going to make it. So if you are already making six figures somewhere else, why would you come and do this. Or if you have a steady paycheck and a family, it's a big risk to come and do this.Yeah I agree that the $2500 thing is a pretty bs Number… and its actually only $2250! In a GK plan though the net requirement is $8400 AND YOUR SPLITTING YOUR COMMISSIONS WITH THE VET!.. somehow they forgot to mention that when I signed on to do the GK. Oh Well, it all worked out now didn’t it.
ps, we lost 75% of my classmates cuz they couldn't put up $2250 in 17 weeks.And that is the goal to trim down the fat, and it continues after that and the numbers constantly increase(a lot of reps in my old region are now below standard(jones term) because they can’t get the new assets to pay the upfront comission in a down market.)
Are rookies no longer dialing the phone 400+ times/day?
Here’s a bucket…
[quote=iceco1d]My god, if I see one more…
"Hi, I'm an ex-mortgage broker, and now that I'm done doing my best to destroy the global financial system, I've decided to take the next step in my career in becoming a 'financial advisor' - how do you guys recommend I start?" I'm going to puke. [/quote] I'm right there with you man.Heh, you quote yourself. Heh heh, haha...AHAHAHAAHAH!“You can’t cure Stupid” quote by Bspears 07
For many of us it is a (desired) mid-career change. Was making $120+, plan on making the same by the end of year 3.
lowprice,
Assuming you are also coming from the mortgage brokerage field, a little warning. The fish NEVER swim anywhere near the surface of the barrel in this business. In fact, most, if not all the fish you will be expected to shoot will be free-range.
Sometimes the fish aren't even in the same barrel. I swear I'm never going to prospect meth-heads and trailer parks again.lowprice,
Assuming you are also coming from the mortgage brokerage field, a little warning. The fish NEVER swim anywhere near the surface of the barrel in this business. In fact, most, if not all the fish you will be expected to shoot will be free-range.
[quote=iceco1d]My god, if I see one more…
"Hi, I'm an ex-mortgage broker, and now that I'm done doing my best to destroy the global financial system, I've decided to take the next step in my career in becoming a 'financial advisor' - how do you guys recommend I start?" I'm going to puke. [/quote]That sounds a bit high and mighty to me. I am an ex-mortgage person but can honestly say I never sold a loan without FULLY explaining how the ARM works, never sold a Neg Am loan at all and never sold Liar's Loans. No one could have sold them unless Wall Street created the CDO's that Investment Advisors then invested in. We're all guilty and all paying the price.
[quote=iceco1d][quote=GlengarryGlenRoss] [quote=iceco1d]My god, if I see one more…
"Hi, I'm an ex-mortgage broker, and now that I'm done doing my best to destroy the global financial system, I've decided to take the next step in my career in becoming a 'financial advisor' - how do you guys recommend I start?" I'm going to puke. [/quote]That sounds a bit high and mighty to me. I am an ex-mortgage person but can honestly say I never sold a loan without FULLY explaining how the ARM works, never sold a Neg Am loan at all and never sold Liar's Loans. No one could have sold them unless Wall Street created the CDO's that Investment Advisors then invested in. We're all guilty and all paying the price.
[/quote] No, my friend. WE are not all guilty. I, like many here, have never sold a mortgage. WE didn't do it. And most of 'WE' don't HAVE those shit-bag loans either. Besides, I don't recall asking your opinion anyway. In all seriousness. At a time when OUR industry needs more people that actually know wtf they are doing, there is an influx of people coming from an industry (your former industry) that is clearly irresponsible - and more than likely not qualified to advise people on their finances. That's not a judgement about you personally, but a broad generalization. But sorry, I don't really want to see a deluge of mortgage brokers coming to our industry to pull the same irresponsible bullshit they have for the past 10 - 15 years. Sickening. [/quote]
Well the forum is a place to post opinions so that's what I did. While it's true there were/are a number of lesser quality loan officers selling loans they didn't understand or fully explain to clients, I'm sure there are a number of advisors out there currently selling VUL's and other products for the same reason, higher commissions. I'm not sure where you're getting your "past 10-15 years of irresponsible lending" but the point I was trying to make was that no loan officer ever created a mortgage product and sold it without it being created by a bank or other financial institution where eventually it was purchased in the secondary market either by Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac or Wall Street. By me saying WE are all guilty I meant if there wasn't a demand (Wall Street etc) there couldn't have been a sale by the loan officer.
In addition, a major force behind loosening of lending guidelines was the U.S. Government and their creation of the Community Reinvestment Act. To say an entire industry is irresponsible isn't accurate because of the number of other key industries (financial services being a major one) that fed the fire.
I'm not trying to start a silly war of words but I guess I've gotten tired of everyone assuming it was simply the mortgage guys who created the mess we're in. (though yes, I agree we certainly had a role, but no larger a role than several other industries)
I see you’re a nightowl as well. I agree with most of your points and would like to think I’m one of the diamonds in the rough you referred to. I suppose you feel a bit like I did when our industry saw an influx of car salesmen and other types as the real estate boom took off, so I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and I can appreciate your perspective.
To defend myself briefly, the worst products I ever sold were subprime ARMS. If I didn’t, someone else would but at least I know my clients would have fully understood what they were getting into. I can’t force them to get their credit etc., in order though I surely advised them to do just that. Unfortunately the loss of equity in many homes prevented a lot of people from refinancing out of the ARM prior to the adjustments kicking and the perfect storm came rolling along.
In any case, I’m still studying for my 66 and then 7 before I officially start. I hope you wish me well as I do for you and trust me when I say I’ll be truly working in the client’s best interests.
GGR,
“Get them to sign on the line that is dotted!”
whoa…a lot of resentment and opinions about mortgage industry on a thread that I really just posted to keep track of my progress.
BTW, I was a wholesaler. My clients were brokers, but I wasn't involved in selling any mortgages to anyone. My job was to establish and maintain relationship with the brokers and correspondent lenders. My job was exactly like those of a mutual fund wholesaler, except my product was mortgages and I didn't have a company credit card. (this is where I want to end up eventually after 5-7 years.) As far as my qualifications for selling, I think my track record will show that I do a decent job. As far as my qualifications for offering investment advices, I don't have any yet because I'm just starting. But to be given a chance to learn, I have plenty. Besides the work experience, I graduated top 10 in my high school class with far above average test score. I graduated from an excellent 4-yr college, one of PAC-10 schools in California, and I did well enough so that my parents didn't have to pay a single dollar for my college education. I believe that education is a personal choice, so i won't make the mistake of judging someone based on which school they went to and what kind of scores they got on a standardized test. However, I'm confident that my credentials will not be dimmed by many others, anywhere in the world I go. I know exactly how you feel and understand your resentment, iceco1d, because I felt the same about the brokers that used to run call centers using bunch of high school drop-outs to solicit clients and obtain confidential information from them. A LOT of mortgage/real estate brokers/agents don't even have a 4-yr degree(which by the way should be a minimum requirement for getting any type of license). I don't want to make excuses for myself, but I've had some bad luck in the past year. Offered a job twice in the banking industry and took the offer on both times, but neither worked out. One of the offers were suspended a week before I was supposed to start because of a hiring freeze. And this was after 2 months of background check. Other firm's entire division shut down due to take-over/merger. What can I say??? This whole time I'm supporting my parents and paying for my sister's college education. In the end, I'm the one that's stuck with the bill, but how many 28 year olds can say that they bought their parents a car and paid for their sister's masters degree? Not many. I'm now doing whatever the HELL I CAN to get back to where I need to be. I got a plan to start a family soon and that's my #1 priority at this time.[quote=iceco1d]GG, GR…My “opinion” post wasn’t serious. I’m not that much of a d|ck. Usually.
There certainly can be unethical advisors, as there can be unethical people in any profession. My point, was that the mortgage industry, quite obviously, has/had more than their fair share such characters. It was also my point, that I'm uneasy about the influx of those people into our industry - as it seems that being a 'financial advisor' is one of the top alternate career choices for ex-mortgage brokers/salespeople. Scary. These are some of the same jerkoffs that you'll see selling 15 year surrender EIAs, and dropping B-share tickets up to the firm maximum. They will be the guys that throw together shit-bag portfolios of funds, from whatever wholesaler takes them out to dinner the most. These will be the same guys that call their A-share buying clients every 3 or 4 years to tell them about the "new, better fund, from this other fund family" their clients will "like better." Or selling A shares, with the intention of moving clients to a fee platform 3 years later. And then, no less, when their poor clients get to retirement, they will set them up with a handy-dandy 5% withdrawal rate on their portfolio of Growth & Income mutual funds, and that will be their "income planning." They will be busy gathering assets, churning old A-shares, whatever. With the baby boomers retiring. With SS in shambles. With the retirement burden falling on individuals. We need more competent people in this business. The mortgage talent pool (no play on words intended) isn't where I'd fish for those people (yes, there are diamonds in the rough). My gosh - so you explained these loans to people. Whoopy. You couldn't see that these effing loans were ridiculous? That these people were going to get blown up? That's like me explaining how a ROTH IRA works to a prospect, but ignoring the fact that they have $30K in credit card debt @ 22% interest, and still letting them DCA their spare money into their ROTH, instead of paying down their credit. "But John Q. Public, I explained how the ROTH works, and how the investments work...sure I could tell that investing money prior to paying down high interest debt wasn't in your best interest and would probably screw you over long-term...but I explained it to you! You made the final decision!" I agree with your stance on the Community Reinvestment Act. However, you need to realize - the 'mortgage guys' had one helluva role in this. Most certainly the BIGGEST role. Wall street played its part. However, they are second to blame. Notice, I said THEY, and not US. Those of US, on this board, aren't investment bankers. We are FAs, or FCs/FRs/insurance agents, whatever, but we are not investment bankers, and WE didn't do this. [/quote]How is a 15 year surrender EIA worse than a 35 year surrender 401K?
GGGR - I certainly do wish you well. Off subject - You are doing your 66 first, then taking the 7? Interesting.[/quote][quote=GlengarryGlenRoss]I see you’re a nightowl as well. I agree with most of your points and would like to think I’m one of the diamonds in the rough you referred to. I suppose you feel a bit like I did when our industry saw an influx of car salesmen and other types as the real estate boom took off, so I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and I can appreciate your perspective.
To defend myself briefly, the worst products I ever sold were subprime ARMS. If I didn’t, someone else would but at least I know my clients would have fully understood what they were getting into. I can’t force them to get their credit etc., in order though I surely advised them to do just that. Unfortunately the loss of equity in many homes prevented a lot of people from refinancing out of the ARM prior to the adjustments kicking and the perfect storm came rolling along.
In any case, I’m still studying for my 66 and then 7 before I officially start. I hope you wish me well as I do for you and trust me when I say I’ll be truly working in the client’s best interests.
Yeah, I was going to do the 7 first and they wanted me to take a class to help but it wasn't offered or was full in December so to keep things moving along I'm just doing the 66 first and have the 7 set up for January.
Norcal,
Which mortgage company were you an a/e for? Unless it was for BoA or another A paper only lender, you’re hands are dirty too pal.
The only way I learned about most of the products available was from the constant stream of a/e’s in my office telling how they can get the tough loans done and how they paid more YSP. Not saying this was you but the a/e’s were on the front lines with the brokers.
Oh and I never hired any high school kids or drop outs but I know some who had and agree with your sentiments.
[quote=iceco1d][quote=Hank Moody] [quote=iceco1d]GG, GR…My “opinion” post wasn’t serious. I’m not that much of a d|ck. Usually.
There certainly can be unethical advisors, as there can be unethical people in any profession. My point, was that the mortgage industry, quite obviously, has/had more than their fair share such characters. It was also my point, that I'm uneasy about the influx of those people into our industry - as it seems that being a 'financial advisor' is one of the top alternate career choices for ex-mortgage brokers/salespeople. Scary. These are some of the same jerkoffs that you'll see selling 15 year surrender EIAs, and dropping B-share tickets up to the firm maximum. They will be the guys that throw together shit-bag portfolios of funds, from whatever wholesaler takes them out to dinner the most. These will be the same guys that call their A-share buying clients every 3 or 4 years to tell them about the "new, better fund, from this other fund family" their clients will "like better." Or selling A shares, with the intention of moving clients to a fee platform 3 years later. And then, no less, when their poor clients get to retirement, they will set them up with a handy-dandy 5% withdrawal rate on their portfolio of Growth & Income mutual funds, and that will be their "income planning." They will be busy gathering assets, churning old A-shares, whatever. With the baby boomers retiring. With SS in shambles. With the retirement burden falling on individuals. We need more competent people in this business. The mortgage talent pool (no play on words intended) isn't where I'd fish for those people (yes, there are diamonds in the rough). My gosh - so you explained these loans to people. Whoopy. You couldn't see that these effing loans were ridiculous? That these people were going to get blown up? That's like me explaining how a ROTH IRA works to a prospect, but ignoring the fact that they have $30K in credit card debt @ 22% interest, and still letting them DCA their spare money into their ROTH, instead of paying down their credit. "But John Q. Public, I explained how the ROTH works, and how the investments work...sure I could tell that investing money prior to paying down high interest debt wasn't in your best interest and would probably screw you over long-term...but I explained it to you! You made the final decision!" I agree with your stance on the Community Reinvestment Act. However, you need to realize - the 'mortgage guys' had one helluva role in this. Most certainly the BIGGEST role. Wall street played its part. However, they are second to blame. Notice, I said THEY, and not US. Those of US, on this board, aren't investment bankers. We are FAs, or FCs/FRs/insurance agents, whatever, but we are not investment bankers, and WE didn't do this. [/quote]How is a 15 year surrender EIA worse than a 35 year surrender 401K?
[/quote] Hank, let me preface this by saying that it is NOT my aim to get into an "annuities are bad" discussion with you. How is it worse? An EIA is a PRODUCT. If that PRODUCT has a 15 year surrender period, it is because the PRODUCT had a high commission attached to it. Chances are, a different product, with a more reasonable surrender period, but less commission could have been used. Therefore, the SURRENDER, exists as motivation for a SALESPERSON. Alright. Now a 401K is an ACCOUNT TYPE. Not a product. Furthermore, 401Ks do not have a 'surrender' - that is just a context you created to sell annuities. Good for you, but don't use it in a debate with me. Now that ACCOUNT, has a tax penalty, not a surrender. That PENALTY exists to MOTIVATE the masses to SAVE for RETIREMENT, not pay a salesperson a commission. It is quite clear that a 401K account is a vehicle to help us save for retirement, and NOT a product. Therefore, the ONLY people that should have one, are the people who WANT to save for retirement. I don't do enough annuity biz to give specific examples, but I think it's safe to say that if there is a 15 year surrender EIA out there, there is another EIA out there that is identical in every way, except a) lower surrender, and b) lower commission. Don't confuse this by me saying that annuity salespeople shouldn't get paid. They should. Sometimes it is excessive. This is one of those times. [/quote]
How much should annuity salesmen get paid?
[quote=iceco1d]
Depends. I’d like to think that the good ones that do what’s best for clients get paid better than the guys on Dateline…but I know that isn’t the way the world works. It’s not my call anyway.
Maybe you could give us some insight/your .02. After all, that's your area of expertise, is it not?
Edit - Don't get me wrong here. Yes, my particular approach generally focuses on investment costs. However, I think it is absolutely ridiculous the way we are expected to always find ways, to get paid less. It's absurd. Those feelings aside, I think a 15 year surrender or CDSC is excessive in any case. 7 - OK. 5 - Much better. Most people have trouble committing to what they are doing next week, let alone what their needs will be in 10 or 15 years. [/quote]Ice, are you even allowed to sell EIA's?
[quote=iceco1d]
Yes.
[/quote]Why is it that a 10% tax penalty to motivate people to stay invested to save for retirement a good thing and a surrender period to motivate people to stay invested for retirement a bad thing? Is it the principal guarantee that you find to be so offensive?
[quote=iceco1d]
If there were no serious tax consequences to pulling a 401K early, most dumbasses would take a nice fat paycheck when they leave service and buy a Corvette, rather than roll it over and keep saving for retirement. This would increase the burden on Social Security (note: I never said the penalty was a ‘good thing’ - I simply expressed my belief in why it exists).
The surrender on an EIA (or any product, annuity, mutual fund, whatever) has nothing to do with motivating the customer to save for retirement. It is directly tied to the amount of commission paid to the rep that sold the product. I have no problem with you, or anyone else making shitloads of money. More power to you. Really though, I reiterate...15 years, is excessive. Oh wait...in addition to that surrender penalty, a pre-59 1/2er gets the tax penalties as well. Seriously. I am not here bashing all EIAs. Or bashing annuities. Nor am I "offended" by any of this. Anyway, this conversation is obviously veering in an unproductive direction, and I have no time for, or interest in that. It's too bad, I was asking you a genuine question. Off to an appointment I go, then to a Xmas party. Have a good weekend everyone. [/quote]I've never sold a 15 year annuity because they don't pay enough. It's awfully hard to tie up assets that long without being properly compensated. I sell what people will buy. I'd rather make 8% on a completed sale than to blow a 12% commission on something that people won't buy. Ethically, I don't have a problem with 15 years, though. If someone has a long time horizon and wants to safely earn 6-8%, over time, they can do a great job. The longer the surrender period, the more up years you will have.
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