Specific "leaving Jones" scenerio

yes,75k prorated over first 3 years, and NO.  Why would you leave the wonderful Jones?

[quote=Nole32303]If I came to Jones as a transfer broker and left to go work at a bank and study for my CFA, do you think they'd still come after me for training costs? Or only if I went to work for another major wirehouse/broker dealer?

BTW, I did a search and read most of the threads and haven't seen anything addressed for transfers to Jones...just newbies. Also, the last thread devolved into a 7 page Jones hate fest. I just want to know 2 things: if I quit to work for a bank (but use my Series 7), will I have to repay costs? What costs? And if I get fired instead will a bank still hire me?
[/quote]

1. Most likely yes. They will want the training costs back.  It doesn't matter if you quit to become a hairdresser or waiter.  If you quit and still work in the industry they might even come after you for more than the training costs.   They also don't care if you came as a transfer broker, although it might have some impact on the training costs if you already had your series 7 .....CONSULT AN ATTORNEY....

2. Most likely no.  Why would they want to hire someone who was fired from their last position?  If you were fired for doing something wrong or non compliant they would probably look at you warily.  If you were fired for non production, why would they think you suddenly will be a producer?

[quote=bspears]yes,75k prorated over first 3 years, and NO.  Why would you leave the wonderful Jones?[/quote]

There is just no possible way they can reasonably come after me for $75,000. I transferred my licenses and attended a week in Tempe. When you add up the airfare, the hotels costs, the food, and the prorated portion of that washed up trainer’s salary…it’s nowhere close.

Who was your trainer in Tempe, out of curiosity? You don’t have to name names, just give me a description.

Wow, Nole, your lovefest w/Jones sure ended quickly…what changed your mind?

[quote=Indyone]Wow, Nole, your lovefest w/Jones sure ended quickly…what changed your mind?[/quote]

That’s a discussion hopefully for another thread. But, I’ll go ahead and answer. The shortest answer is a lot of promises that didn’t come to fruition…especially regarding how much leeway was going to be given. I was supposed to have an early can sell date, individualized training, and flexiblity with regards to how I could market. None of that has come to be. Instead, I’ve had clients waiting to join me for 8 weeks, I got taught what a stock and a bond was for a week by a guy that couldn’t make it in the business, and apparently I have no flexibility with how I can market. They call me every week and ask me why I haven’t entered my 125 door knocking contacts in yet. I want to be like, “Well, it’s because I came over here as a transfer broker not as a newbie and I don’t need you babysitting me. Can I please just produce and have you leave me alone?” Also, nobody told me I was going to  have to call people I’ve met one time in my life and try to get them to buy a stock or a bond. That’s lame.

So in one word: lies. I don’t have a problem with the company as much as the way the company treated me. I still think its a good company and their increase in market share and their broker and client satisfaction numbers speak for themselves. I just don’t want to work there.

But, back to the main point of the thread. ** Has anybody here actually been billed by Jones? How much was it for and what was the reasoning behind it???

[quote=Indyone]Wow, Nole, your lovefest w/Jones sure ended quickly…what changed your mind?[/quote]

He found out that he had to work…

They lied to you, Nole, one of their own brokers, and you think this is a

good company? What would you consider an earmark of a bad company?

Please stop the EJ threads. You’re beating such a dead horse.

[quote=ezmoney] Please stop the EJ threads. You’re beating such a dead

horse.[/quote]



Ditto BAC threads, Ez.

[quote=Philo Kvetch]They lied to you, Nole, one of their own brokers, and you think this is a

good company? What would you consider an earmark of a bad company?[/quote]

So true Philo, but we know that there is plenty of lying to “employees” that goes on in this business…

That can’t be true.  I was never lied to by the Green Machine(directly).  Maybe half truths were told…but a blatant lie to cover up anything is just not true.   If the sob’s were calling me about my 125 contacts…I tell them to go take a big Weddle in the woods!!!  The bit about Hill paying 3 mill…a total lie…75m another lie.  This is the best company in the world…Weddle invented the internet.  Why don’t you just call and ask what you would owe? I know I’m rambling…but heading on vacation for week…I know…how can I afford to go on vacation now that I don’t work at EDJ’s…the answer…90% vs 34%…even spiffy can do the math!!

I have no sympathy because if you were a experienced broker and not a newbie, and you had a grain of common sense, you would have NEVER even considered EDJ.

[quote=Nole32303] There is just no possible way they can reasonably come after me for $75,000. I transferred my licenses and attended a week in Tempe. When you add up the airfare, the hotels costs, the food, and the prorated portion of that washed up trainer's salary...it's nowhere close.
[/quote]

Did you really sign a contract with the training clause? (I would be surprised that they have the same $75K contract for a transfer broker)  If you did, then they will go after you.  No one leaves without paying nowadays without them filing for arbitration.  Even if you think you can win, they will still go after you with the expectation that you will settle.  It really doesn't matter your specifics (everyone can claim it doesn't cost that much to train, e.g. I can get an MBA from Harvard for less than $75K) Its cheap for them to file arbitration paperwork, its expensive for you to hire a lawyer and respond. 

[quote=vagabond]

Did you really sign a contract with the training clause? (I would be surprised that they have the same $75K contract for a transfer broker)  If you did, then they will go after you.  No one leaves without paying nowadays without them filing for arbitration.  Even if you think you can win, they will still go after you with the expectation that you will settle.  It really doesn't matter your specifics (everyone can claim it doesn't cost that much to train, e.g. I can get an MBA from Harvard for less than $75K) Its cheap for them to file arbitration paperwork, its expensive for you to hire a lawyer and respond. 

[quote=Nole32303]

[quote=vagabond]

Did you really sign a contract with the training clause? (I would be surprised that they have the same $75K contract for a transfer broker)  If you did, then they will go after you.  No one leaves without paying nowadays without them filing for arbitration.  Even if you think you can win, they will still go after you with the expectation that you will settle.  It really doesn't matter your specifics (everyone can claim it doesn't cost that much to train, e.g. I can get an MBA from Harvard for less than $75K) Its cheap for them to file arbitration paperwork, its expensive for you to hire a lawyer and respond. 

Do you have any friends or is that why you hang out here so much?

Out of all of the ex-Jones people on this site, not a single one in a single thread still on this forum has ever said they actually physically got a bill for training costs. There’s plenty of people out there that insist they will get one for $75,000, but not a single one who says they have gotten a bill. I am not saying they won’t send one, but I think that may be indicative of something.

[quote=Nole32303]Out of all of the ex-Jones people on this site, not a single one in a single thread still on this forum has ever said they actually physically got a bill for training costs. There's plenty of people out there that insist they will get one for $75,000, but not a single one who says they have gotten a bill. I am not saying they won't send one, but I think that may be indicative of something. [/quote]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I was outside the three year window when I left, and it was quite a while ago.  If I were you, I'd stop trying to find out about my liabilities on an internet chatroom and contact a labor attorney.

For what it's worth........

I left Jones two years ago (after six years with them).  The FA that went independent with me from Jones left after 35 months with the mothership.  He was sent a bill for approximately $10,000.  He settled with them for around $2,000.

[quote=Gone Indy]I left Jones two years ago (after six years with them).  The FA that went independent with me from Jones left after 35 months with the mothership.  He was sent a bill for approximately $10,000.  He settled with them for around $2,000.[/quote]

That’s obviously bad news. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that he went indy and not a backwards move. I just find it amazingly hard to believe that a company with a 14% turnover rate last year over the whole company (so who only knows how high amongst just the advisors) enforces such a ridiculous policy and I can’t find a single thing about it (outside of the Jones web page) on google. And so far one person on this forum, which is composed primarily of ex Jones people, knows of somebody personally that got a bill.

I know of 2 in the last 8 months, both were no in 'right to work states".

I have no empirical data to support this, but I would suppose that the majority of ex-Jones brokers who are still in the business were verteran brokers when they made the jump.  (This was true in my case, and Gone Indy’s as well.)  Which is probably why you’re not getting the responses that you’re looking for.

SP: veteran

Actually, now that you mention it... I had a friend who went to Jones from Barney (he thought that an office with 30MM in AUM sounded like a pretty good deal) and soon found out that they frowned on such staples of his business as "B" Shares and stock trading. He also found out that 30MM in AUM that couldn't be converted into "C" shares was no bargain whatsoever.

So my friend wound up working at a Wachovia Brank branch... where he waited for several MONTHS for Jones to release his license. By which time his old Barney clients were gone and the Jones clients were no less useless than they were when he was there.

He went into teaching college after that (wasn't much happier working in a bank branch than at Jones).

I'm not pointing any fingers, and I'm sorry, I can't tell you if Jones wanted money too (I think they did) but I do recall that Jones (at least my friend blamed it on Jones) put a real hurting on this guy's life by sitting on his ticket as long as they could.

I left Jones after 24 months to go with Morgan Stanley well aware of the “training” Clawback clause as they call it.  Yes you will be liable. However you can negotiate with them for far less than they are asking.  Being upfront with them and honest will go alot farther than trying to squirm out out a legally binding contract.  Yes it sucks but they will get their money.  My $37500 ending up being $3000.  Good luck negotiating.

[quote=Nole32303]Out of all of the ex-Jones people on this site, not a single one in a single thread still on this forum has ever said they actually physically got a bill for training costs. There's plenty of people out there that insist they will get one for $75,000, but not a single one who says they have gotten a bill. I am not saying they won't send one, but I think that may be indicative of something. [/quote]

I did.  So did a friend of mine.

[quote=vagabond]

[quote=Nole32303]Out of all of the ex-Jones people on this site, not a single one in a single thread still on this forum has ever said they actually physically got a bill for training costs. There's plenty of people out there that insist they will get one for $75,000, but not a single one who says they have gotten a bill. I am not saying they won't send one, but I think that may be indicative of something. [/quote]

I did.  So did a friend of mine.

[/quote]

And how did you handle it? And what was the result?

Really the first thing you should do is call HR and ask to get a copy of your employment contract.  They will fax it to you.  Some will say that this raises a red flag that you are leaving.  I don't think they are that coordinated, and who cares anyway.

In my case, first they sent out 2 letters within two weeks of me transferring my license.  One saying what I owe for training and another reminding me of the non-compete and confidentiality clauses.  Most everyone gets these letters and ingnores them.   A while later I got notice from the NASD that they filed for arbitration to recoup the training costs.  I believe this is the standard SOP now.   I got a lawyer and negotiated a settlement for a much lower amount, similar to dukenduke above.  They don't want to go to arbitration (only one case has, because the rep never replied to the arbitration notice.  The rep also never showed up at the arbitration hearing and Jones still didn't get awarded the entire amount), but they do want to show that they are "enforcing" the contract by going after everyone.  Not to mention if they average $5000 per settlement on 1000 reps per year, thats $5mil to split between Jones and their lawyers.  That pays one low ranking GPs salary.  Another way the IRs are their only profit center.