See if we can have a serious thread
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Fruitless waste of time. No-load, DIY’ers have themselves convinced that they can do it better than anyone. Truth is, you can build a great portfolio with Vanguard Funds, you just have to know WHICH funds to use, and HOW MUCH. In addition, you need to know when to re-allocate, etc.
This is the big point that no-loaders miss. It's not so much about the fund family, but about the combination of funds that you buy and when, and what is most appropriate for you. My recommendation - don't try to argue with returns and comparisons and such. Then you're just arguing one product versus the other. You will lose (even if you are right you will lose the game). Help him see clearly about asset allocation, risk levels, inevsting for income (if he needs income), etc. You need him to see that he needs YOU, not American Funds, or Edward Jones, or Vanguard.You can run a Morningstar hypo through JonesLink. I believe you must run them seperately though and tell the client that the funds have different objectives, as you are not allowed to show people funds like that compared to each other as you are likely comparing apples to oranges.
In my limited experience those Vanguard funds are hard to beat because their expenses are low comparitively speaking, and the performance in many cases is comparable or better. The only way I have won any business from Vanguard evangelists is to talk about having you help manage the funds. If anyone has different ideas it will be good to hear about it.[quote=B24]Fruitless waste of time. No-load, DIY’ers have themselves convinced that they can do it better than anyone. Truth is, you can build a great portfolio with Vanguard Funds, you just have to know WHICH funds to use, and HOW MUCH. In addition, you need to know when to re-allocate, etc.
This is the big point that no-loaders miss. It's not so much about the fund family, but about the combination of funds that you buy and when, and what is most appropriate for you. My recommendation - don't try to argue with returns and comparisons and such. Then you're just arguing one product versus the other. You will lose (even if you are right you will lose the game). Help him see clearly about asset allocation, risk levels, inevsting for income (if he needs income), etc. You need him to see that he needs YOU, not American Funds, or Edward Jones, or Vanguard.[/quote] Yeah, what he said...Truth Windy, If you are really doing 25k+ months… eff em’. You dont need em, not worth your time, headaches, or posts. I would be interested to here what dk techniques you find to be most affective though. Who are we kidding, if your doing as well as you say you are with 0 assetts, I wanna hear whats working.
I apologize in advance for the firestorm that will come for asking Wind for his methods..... ok, maybe this is a terrible idea. This thread could get out of hand quick..
Only thing I’ve found that works with DIY’ers is advisory solutions. I sell them on how its for our “sophisticated” clients. I don’t even go into the A shares with these guys because truth me told I’m sorta like that guy.
Granted I’ve only done this three times but it worked 3 out of the 5 I’ve pitched. Might be an angle he’s not thought about.
See the comments under "clients vs. customers" thread from a while back. In my experience, the effort you'll expend on trying to impress your value upon the engineers, statisticians, Mensa members and VanTRoweFidelSchwabites would be much more effectively applied on coming up with your next good seminar idea, or even imagining what it would sound like if Barney Frank and Sylvester the Puddy Tat broke it down ol' skool on the rap stage.Right now, B24 is right, He doesn’t value my advice.
I mostly agree with ice. If you’re even going to have a chance with this guy you have to show him something that includes the company he’s convinced himself is the best. I’ll bet that he’s not rebalancing like he should, doesn’t have a correct asset allocation, doesn’t have a plan at all. He probably just reads Money or watches CNBC and they’ve told him Vanguard rocks.
Here's where I don't agree with ice. It's relatively easy, using a hypo, to show him how any number of funds can beat whatever he's got. There are only about 10 funds that I see most often. Index, Primecap, Windsor, and some others off the top of my head. You can show him those hypos if you want to play that game. Like the others said, I wouldn't waste your time on A shares. I would show him Advisory Solutions like the others said. Just keep dripping on the guy. Give him service like you would any other $400K account and you will most likely win the biz eventually..
[quote=Spaceman Spiff]I mostly agree with ice. If you’re even going to have a chance with this guy you have to show him something that includes the company he’s convinced himself is the best. I’ll bet that he’s not rebalancing like he should, doesn’t have a correct asset allocation, doesn’t have a plan at all. He probably just reads Money or watches CNBC and they’ve told him Vanguard rocks. It’s relatively easy, using a hypo to show him how any number of funds can beat whatever he’s got.
Just keep dripping on the guy. Give him service like you would any other $400K account and you will most likely win the biz eventually. [/quote] Use a hypo to show him how any number of funds can beat whatever he's got ? Actually that doesn't show anything besides what has happened in the past. Way to add value by doctoring a hypo to beat a portfolio after the fact.I would tell him he is not the type of client I am looking for. I wasted 4 yrs at Jones trying to convince people they need my help. When I left I finally figured out that it isn’t worth the battle. Those you do convince will never be happy and will tell other people how unhappy they are, others who you never will convince will try to keep the conversation going over years…
Move on… Tell him that you don’t think he is the type of client you are looking for since he doesn’t value your advice… The rest of these guys are right, don’t doctor a morningstar hypo, in the end it never works out… performance comes and goes… ask Putnam
Had a similar situation happen to me last month. Prospect focused on cost, I focused on professional advice. I asked him a simple question. If I could show him how my advice would benefit him, would he do business with me now? He said he doubted how I could, but yes, if I could show him my value he would bring sign the transfer on his $300m account (I wouldn’t bother for $50m). I did a fact finder, got him to agree that we were on the same page as to time frame, goals, and risk.
Then I pulled out a hypo of my generic portfolio that fit his situation and asked him which no load funds and in what proportion he was considering. Blank stare. He hadn't had a chance to do that yet. I said ok. Please initial the first 5 pages of the hypo. He did without looking at the hypo. I said when you figure out your portfolio I will compare yours to mine and you can decide which is best. He asked why I had him initial the hypo pages. I explained that I wanted him to know that what I would have shown him before knowing what he picked is the same as after I find out which funds he choses. Two days later he called me with a portfolio of no load funds. I set an appointment for the next day. He came in and I compared the two portfolios. 14 year hypo. I had better returns in 12 of 14 years, 3 yr, 5 yr, 10 yr, since inception, lower beta, lower std dev, higher alpha. I also explained to him that my numbers included about 50 bps in MF internal fees and my 150 bps, while his portfolio did not. I asked him if now he could see the value that I provide my clients. He signed the transfer. I don't recommend this for most prospects. Your value should be your service, not your performance. But you have to pander to what the client views as most important. I sold him on numbers, I will keep him on service.Unless your numbers decrease. then he won’t care about service…
[quote=Sam Houston]Had a similar situation happen to me last month. Prospect focused on cost, I focused on professional advice. I asked him a simple question. If I could show him how my advice would benefit him, would he do business with me now? He said he doubted how I could, but yes, if I could show him my value he would bring sign the transfer on his $300m account (I wouldn’t bother for $50m). I did a fact finder, got him to agree that we were on the same page as to time frame, goals, and risk.
Then I pulled out a hypo of my generic portfolio that fit his situation and asked him which no load funds and in what proportion he was considering. Blank stare. He hadn't had a chance to do that yet. I said ok. Please initial the first 5 pages of the hypo. He did without looking at the hypo. I said when you figure out your portfolio I will compare yours to mine and you can decide which is best. He asked why I had him initial the hypo pages. I explained that I wanted him to know that what I would have shown him before knowing what he picked is the same as after I find out which funds he choses. Two days later he called me with a portfolio of no load funds. I set an appointment for the next day. He came in and I compared the two portfolios. 14 year hypo. I had better returns in 12 of 14 years, 3 yr, 5 yr, 10 yr, since inception, lower beta, lower std dev, higher alpha. I also explained to him that my numbers included about 50 bps in MF internal fees and my 150 bps, while his portfolio did not. I asked him if now he could see the value that I provide my clients. He signed the transfer. I don't recommend this for most prospects. Your value should be your service, not your performance. But you have to pander to what the client views as most important. I sold him on numbers, I will keep him on service.[/quote]
That right there my friends is a professional financial advisor. Great stuff Sam.
[quote=Sam Houston]Had a similar situation happen to me last month. Prospect focused on cost, I focused on professional advice. I asked him a simple question. If I could show him how my advice would benefit him, would he do business with me now? He said he doubted how I could, but yes, if I could show him my value he would bring sign the transfer on his $300m account (I wouldn’t bother for $50m). I did a fact finder, got him to agree that we were on the same page as to time frame, goals, and risk.
Then I pulled out a hypo of my generic portfolio that fit his situation and asked him which no load funds and in what proportion he was considering. Blank stare. He hadn't had a chance to do that yet. I said ok. Please initial the first 5 pages of the hypo. He did without looking at the hypo. I said when you figure out your portfolio I will compare yours to mine and you can decide which is best. He asked why I had him initial the hypo pages. I explained that I wanted him to know that what I would have shown him before knowing what he picked is the same as after I find out which funds he choses. Two days later he called me with a portfolio of no load funds. I set an appointment for the next day. He came in and I compared the two portfolios. 14 year hypo. I had better returns in 12 of 14 years, 3 yr, 5 yr, 10 yr, since inception, lower beta, lower std dev, higher alpha. I also explained to him that my numbers included about 50 bps in MF internal fees and my 150 bps, while his portfolio did not. I asked him if now he could see the value that I provide my clients. He signed the transfer. I don't recommend this for most prospects. Your value should be your service, not your performance. But you have to pander to what the client views as most important. I sold him on numbers, I will keep him on service.[/quote]Just a question...
How do you walk around with basketballs for nads?
That's is bad@$$....
[quote=SometimesNowhere] [quote=Sam Houston]Had a similar situation happen to me last month. Prospect focused on cost, I focused on professional advice. I asked him a simple question. If I could show him how my advice would benefit him, would he do business with me now? He said he doubted how I could, but yes, if I could show him my value he would bring sign the transfer on his $300m account (I wouldn’t bother for $50m). I did a fact finder, got him to agree that we were on the same page as to time frame, goals, and risk.
Then I pulled out a hypo of my generic portfolio that fit his situation and asked him which no load funds and in what proportion he was considering. Blank stare. He hadn't had a chance to do that yet. I said ok. Please initial the first 5 pages of the hypo. He did without looking at the hypo. I said when you figure out your portfolio I will compare yours to mine and you can decide which is best. He asked why I had him initial the hypo pages. I explained that I wanted him to know that what I would have shown him before knowing what he picked is the same as after I find out which funds he choses. Two days later he called me with a portfolio of no load funds. I set an appointment for the next day. He came in and I compared the two portfolios. 14 year hypo. I had better returns in 12 of 14 years, 3 yr, 5 yr, 10 yr, since inception, lower beta, lower std dev, higher alpha. I also explained to him that my numbers included about 50 bps in MF internal fees and my 150 bps, while his portfolio did not. I asked him if now he could see the value that I provide my clients. He signed the transfer. I don't recommend this for most prospects. Your value should be your service, not your performance. But you have to pander to what the client views as most important. I sold him on numbers, I will keep him on service.[/quote]Just a question...
How do you walk around with basketballs for nads?
That's is bad@$$....
[/quote] What is the worst that could happen, he could tell me no? He challenged me, I just asked him to prove it and I was prepared. Not my first rodeo.
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[quote=Ron 14][quote=Spaceman Spiff]I mostly agree with ice. If you’re even going to have a chance with this guy you have to show him something that includes the company he’s convinced himself is the best. I’ll bet that he’s not rebalancing like he should, doesn’t have a correct asset allocation, doesn’t have a plan at all. He probably just reads Money or watches CNBC and they’ve told him Vanguard rocks. It’s relatively easy, using a hypo to show him how any number of funds can beat whatever he’s got.
Just keep dripping on the guy. Give him service like you would any other $400K account and you will most likely win the biz eventually. [/quote] Use a hypo to show him how any number of funds can beat whatever he's got ? Actually that doesn't show anything besides what has happened in the past. Way to add value by doctoring a hypo to beat a portfolio after the fact. [/quote] So, Sam is a financial professional because he used a hypo to sell, buy my comment on using a hypo to sell makes me something less than a professional? The difference is...? BTW, Sam's approach is great. I didn't want to make it sound like I was discounting his procedure.The fact that you don’t get the difference proves the point. You are showing the hypo after knowing the clients fund choices, Sam has the portfolio picked out already.
You need to look up what Alpha and Beta and Standard deviation mean before diving into those shark infested waters. It could get dangerous in there.Sam. I may just copy your procedure with this feller. Thats brillaint.
Wait, wait, wait, wait wait…
Why would YOU want to spend YOUR time proving to HIM that it's better.Turn the table. Ask HIM to prove to YOU how it's better. Tell him to show you. It will free up YOUR time to go find another client :)
[quote=Takingnames]Wait, wait, wait, wait wait…
Why would YOU want to spend YOUR time proving to HIM that it's better.Turn the table. Ask HIM to prove to YOU how it's better. Tell him to show you. It will free up YOUR time to go find another client :) [/quote] Huh? Don't we spend our time acquiring clients by showing them we are better than the alternative? Or should I be calling with "Hi this is Sam, you need to prove to me that what you have is better than what I can do and if it isn't you can pay me"? Tell me I read that wrong.
You need to look up what Alpha and Beta and Standard deviation mean before diving into those shark infested waters. It could get dangerous in there.[/quote] FYI, all the MPT stats are for my own financial geekdom. My pitch to the prospect was much simpler. I was not surprised my portfolio was better, just at the magnitude.[quote=wind3574]Sam. I may just copy your procedure with this feller. Thats brillaint.
[quote=Ron 14]The fact that you don’t get the difference proves the point. You are showing the hypo after knowing the clients fund choices, Sam has the portfolio picked out already. [/quote]
It wouldn’t be hard to build a portfolio of funds that would beat most anything someone could put together over the last 14 years.
I like the sales strategy in the above story, but if you’re using highly ranked funds / ETFs you should be able to beat a Vanguard Portfolio someone whose a mechanical engineer by day would choose.
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Exactly, but you aren't adding any value to the relationship because you can't prove your choices will again beat that Vanguard Portfolio moving forward.[quote=Ron 14]The fact that you don’t get the difference proves the point. You are showing the hypo after knowing the clients fund choices, Sam has the portfolio picked out already. [/quote]
It wouldn’t be hard to build a portfolio of funds that would beat most anything someone could put together over the last 14 years.
I like the sales strategy in the above story, but if you’re using highly ranked funds / ETFs you should be able to beat a Vanguard Portfolio someone whose a mechanical engineer by day would choose.
Exactly, but you aren't adding any value to the relationship because you can't prove your choices will again beat that Vanguard Portfolio moving forward. [/quote][quote=BerkshireBull] [quote=Ron 14]The fact that you don’t get the difference proves the point. You are showing the hypo after knowing the clients fund choices, Sam has the portfolio picked out already. [/quote]
It wouldn’t be hard to build a portfolio of funds that would beat most anything someone could put together over the last 14 years.
I like the sales strategy in the above story, but if you’re using highly ranked funds / ETFs you should be able to beat a Vanguard Portfolio someone whose a mechanical engineer by day would choose.
Yup. Props on your new signature, BTW, I chuckled.
Now if someone came on here and posted a portfolio they IMPLEMENTED 10+yrs ago that blew the doors off I'd be impressed. Of course then it would spark a massive debate over whether they were telling the truth. As it is...
[quote=BerkshireBull]
Ron 14:Exactly, but you aren't adding any value to the relationship because you can't prove your choices will again beat that Vanguard Portfolio moving forward. [/quote][quote=BerkshireBull] [quote=Ron 14]The fact that you don’t get the difference proves the point. You are showing the hypo after knowing the clients fund choices, Sam has the portfolio picked out already. [/quote]
It wouldn’t be hard to build a portfolio of funds that would beat most anything someone could put together over the last 14 years.
I like the sales strategy in the above story, but if you’re using highly ranked funds / ETFs you should be able to beat a Vanguard Portfolio someone whose a mechanical engineer by day would choose.
Yup. Props on your new signature, BTW, I chuckled.
Now if someone came on here and posted a portfolio they IMPLEMENTED 10+yrs ago that blew the doors off I'd be impressed. Of course then it would spark a massive debate over whether they were telling the truth. As it is...
[/quote]
Cases of PBR, shoved the deposits into G-strings at the local "dancing" establishment. Memories will carry me through retirement.
Exactly, but you aren't adding any value to the relationship because you can't prove your choices will again beat that Vanguard Portfolio moving forward. [/quote] It absolutely astounds me that most people (ice excluded) on this board do not view themselves as a FINANCIAL professional. He said he could get the same quality portfolio with a no load without my fee and therefore do better. I pulled my portfolio and said lets compare. While I have not been using this portfolio for 14 yrs (longest common history), I have been using it long enough to have an impressive track record. What I am sure about is that this layperson will choose funds the same way in the future and as a financial professional I will be able to achieve better results with less risk over time AFTER my fee.[quote=BerkshireBull] [quote=Ron 14]The fact that you don’t get the difference proves the point. You are showing the hypo after knowing the clients fund choices, Sam has the portfolio picked out already. [/quote]
It wouldn’t be hard to build a portfolio of funds that would beat most anything someone could put together over the last 14 years.
I like the sales strategy in the above story, but if you’re using highly ranked funds / ETFs you should be able to beat a Vanguard Portfolio someone whose a mechanical engineer by day would choose.
[quote=3rdyrp2]
[quote=Sam Houston][quote=3rdyrp2][quote=wind3574]Sam. I may just copy your procedure with this feller. Thats brillaint.[/quote] You need to look up what Alpha and Beta and Standard deviation mean before diving into those shark infested waters. It could get dangerous in there.[/quote] FYI, all the MPT stats are for my own financial geekdom. My pitch to the prospect was much simpler. I was not surprised my portfolio was better, just at the magnitude.[/quote] I'm sure its more than you'd want to post on here, but I'm curious how you would convince a client by using a Morningstar report that your portfolio is better than the one he already has without using the numerical data on there. Or what he would be looking at on there to get that "Ahhhhh, you are right Sam, mine does appear to be out of whack" moment. I'll guess yours was in the top left quadrant and his was in the bottom right, that seems the most obvious route to take. [/quote] I asked the client when he came in for the comparison what would determine the winning portfolio. He said returns. He looked at the hypo for all of 30 seconds. I explained that my portfolio beat his despite the higher costs for the same reason that having a professional mechanic (his profession) fix my engine would lead to a better result than me fixing it myself. The MPT statistics are for my benefit to make sure I am doing my job well, not for the client. I don't need to know how my engine works, just that it works, he didn't need to know how the portfolio works..... BTW, I stopped even looking at what a prospect currently holds at the start of a meeting a long time ago. I show him what I can do for him. Only after that do we compare. I tell the prospect that anyone can come up with something better after knowing what they are up against, it just takes time. Really grabs their attention.Sam … with the benefit of “hindsight” you can put together a hypo every month that will beat anything out there, without even seeing what the client has. Just pick the best funds over the last 14 years that fit into your mix. I’m sure the client does not know this but what’s the difference? How do they know you’ve been using it for more than a month?
Wow that's brilliant. You should try that. What I do is a bit more complicated than experimenting with hypos to get the best possible result as that would guarantee failure in the future. But for your little scheme, start with LETRX. Great 3,5,10yr returns.Sam … with the benefit of “hindsight” you can put together a hypo every month that will beat anything out there, without even seeing what the client has. Just pick the best funds over the last 14 years that fit into your mix. I’m sure the client does not know this but what’s the difference? How do they know you’ve been using it for more than a month?
Just asking bro, I’d have this concern if I was a client. Lose the chip on your shoulder. This is the internet.
… and since we’re acting like assholes now. How about sharing how your “complicated portfolio” did over the last 5/10 years.
Advisors don't have performance numbers, client do. Clients have different needs so performance varies. I can tell you I get a good chuckle everytime I see "down 40%" in reference to a client.Just asking bro, I’d have this concern if I was a client. Lose the chip on your shoulder. This is the internet.
… and since we’re acting like assholes now. How about sharing how your “complicated portfolio” did over the last 5/10 years.
The posts about fund selection have it exactly right. Allocation determines performance, not individual investment selection. For example; in an up equity market even the poorest performing equity funds will outperform non equity funds. To benefit one must be invested in equity funds.
Points I make when up against Vanguard/no load: 1. Investment allocation determines performance. Vanguard has over 100 funds covering the investment allocation universe. Mr. Prospect, out of those 100 funds, do you know which ones to choose? 2. All companies have a choice. They can be the quality provider or the low cost provider. Vanguard has chosen to be the low cost provider. 3. To be the low price provider Vanguard has to control its costs. One of their biggest costs is people. Specifically managers to run their funds. Did you know that roughly ten years ago almost 1/3 of their managers quit when Vanguard refused to up their pay? How important are mangers? They are the ones who make all the investment decisions. Without them there are no funds. 4. And on that count let's talk about managers. How does one become a manager? These are people who go to college, then to business school and then take jobs as a junior analyst with major financial firms. That's a fancy title for gopher. But they get a chance to prove themselves and move into the big money positions as senior analyst, co- managers and then fund manager. When these people graduate they have a choice to make. The best and the brightest from the best schools can choose between the firms that pay the most money and have the best career path. The rest? well they go to low paying Vanguard. Mr. Prospect, do you want your money manged by the best and brightest or the people who couldn't get a job anywhere else on Wall Street?? 5. Do you know who John Bogle is? John Bogle is the founder of Vanguard. He is a brilliant businessman who became rich by convincing folks like you that you can do it yourself. He did this by reducing investing to one question- how much does it cost? John Bogle would like everyone to think he's a frugal guy. About ten-fifteen years ago John Bogle needed a heart transplant. Let me ask you this Mr. prospect: As Mr. Bogle went through that process do you think he asked about cost? Do you think he took the lowest priced surgeon? And if not why not? Of course he didn't shop price. He wanted the best and the brightest. The point is you get what you pay for. The best and brightest are good enough for him, but not for you.6. On that point let's say doing it yourself you could out perform the best minds on Wall Street. Guys like Bogle make it sound easy. But i assure you easy it's not. You could get lucky for a year or two but consistantly beating the street at what they are educated to do and do on a full time basis, that would be difficult. But let's say you can do it. The question is: How many hours a day, a week, per year would you have to devote to beat the best at what they do full time? And would it be worth it? Most people do the math and say no it's not worth the time. It's better to spend that time doing what you do best and paying us to do what we do best. You use your time to make the money and we use ours to manage it. What do you think?
[quote=BondGuy]The posts about fund selection have it exactly right. Allocation determines performance, not individual investment selection. For example; in an up equity market even the poorest performing equity funds will outperform non equity funds. To benefit one must be invested in equity funds.
Points I make when up against Vanguard/no load: 1. Investment allocation determines performance. Vanguard has over 100 funds covering the investment allocation universe. Mr. Prospect, out of those 100 funds, do you know which ones to choose? 2. All companies have a choice. They can be the quality provider or the low cost provider. Vanguard has chosen to be the low cost provider. 3. To be the low price provider Vanguard has to control its costs. One of their biggest costs is people. Specifically managers to run their funds. Did you know that roughly ten years ago almost 1/3 of their managers quit when Vanguard refused to up their pay? How important are mangers? They are the ones who make all the investment decisions. Without them there are no funds. 4. And on that count let's talk about managers. How does one become a manager? These are people who go to college, then to business school and then take jobs as a junior analyst with major financial firms. That's a fancy title for gopher. But they get a chance to prove themselves and move into the big money positions as senior analyst, co- managers and then fund manager. When these people graduate they have a choice to make. The best and the brightest from the best schools can choose between the firms that pay the most money and have the best career path. The rest? well they go to low paying Vanguard. Mr. Prospect, do you want your money manged by the best and brightest or the people who couldn't get a job anywhere else on Wall Street?? 5. Do you know who John Bogle is? John Bogle is the founder of Vanguard. He is a brilliant businessman who became rich by convincing folks like you that you can do it yourself. He did this by reducing investing to one question- how much does it cost? John Bogle would like everyone to think he's a frugal guy. About ten-fifteen years ago John Bogle needed a heart transplant. Let me ask you this Mr. prospect: As Mr. Bogle went through that process do you think he asked about cost? Do you think he took the lowest priced surgeon? And if not why not? Of course he didn't shop price. He wanted the best and the brightest. The point is you get what you pay for. The best and brightest are good enough for him, but not for you.6. On that point let's say doing it yourself you could out perform the best minds on Wall Street. Guys like Bogle make it sound easy. But i assure you easy it's not. You could get lucky for a year or two but consistantly beating the street at what they are educated to do and do on a full time basis, that would be difficult. But let's say you can do it. The question is: How many hours a day, a week, per year would you have to devote to beat the best at what they do full time? And would it be worth it? Most people do the math and say no it's not worth the time. It's better to spend that time doing what you do best and paying us to do what we do best. You use your time to make the money and we use ours to manage it. What do you think?[/quote]
Another brilliant post I intend to plagiarize. Thanks BondGuy!
Yeah that is great… I have used points 1,2 and 6 but I have never used 5… plan to do so in the future.
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Simple answer then....bye...next prospect! btw...great post bondguy!Yes thanks BondGuy. The problem though, is that he argued with me that Vanguard is all managed funds. When I mentioned that the expense is cut by riding of the money managers, he told me I was wrong and i needed to get my facts straight lol. According to him, all Vanguard funds are managed just as well as any other firm.
Thank you Bondguy.
Another point to consider: Vanguard has ETFs…if he is sold on the brand, you could use them in a commission based account and just explain that the expense rations are nil (9 bps on VTI for example) and the commission is how you get paid for allocation work, etc.
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Why fight him on it. Just put him in a fee based account and let him have his Vanguard funds.
[quote=wind3574][quote=Hey Kool-Aid]
Simple answer then....bye...next prospect! [/quote] He is a client, not a prospect.[/quote] Wrong. He's a customer. One doesn't fight with clients..
[quote=wind3574]I have a client who is absolutely un-ruly. Likes to argue about anything. Today, he was arguing with me that Vanguard was the best thing since sliced bread. I however wasn’t saying anything back, so it was almost like he was arguing to himself. Anyway, does anyone know of a website or somewhere that I can get literature showing Vanguard funds vs. Traditionally managed funds like American Funds, Lord Abbett or whatever. I don’t care what fund, I just want some sort of literature to compare the performance.[/quote]
Show him how index annuities have no expenses and would have outperformed his stupid mutual funds over the last decade. If he says no, fire him. Then, fire yourself for arguing with an idiot.
Wind,
I know you don't have fee based at Eddy J. I was just inappropriately playing with the Ed J model. One small advantage of being outside of Jones is that you can have access to Vanguard in a fee based account. In my experience you will never win over this client in the short term. See if he'll let you prove it to him. Ask him if he'll put some money into what you are recommending and then over the next 5 years you can review performance and YOUR value. If you do your job he MIGHT eventually see the light. Good Luck with this one, these are some of the most frustrating clients to deal with.[quote=wind3574]I don’t fight with anyone. He was trying to start a fight over a comment i made. Thats all. We can’t put him in a fee based account at EDJ, except for advisory solutions, but the problem is getting him to see the value in an actual advisor. If he wasn’t already a client, i’d quit awhile back.[/quote]
There is no value in an advisor. You failed to figure out what he wants to buy and then sell it to him. He doesn’t want to pay you for advice and he doesn’t like to pay fees. A good index annuity would be an easy sale.
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[quote=wind3574]I don’t fight with anyone. He was trying to start a fight over a comment i made. Thats all. We can’t put him in a fee based account at EDJ, except for advisory solutions, but the problem is getting him to see the value in an actual advisor. If he wasn’t already a client, i’d quit awhile back.[/quote]
Why do you consider him a client if he does not see the value of you as an advisor, just a guy that sells bonds?
Advisory solutions with an ETF model and you reducing the fee by 25bps is probably the lowest cost thing we could do for this guy. You of course already know that.
Wind, he isn't a client. He's a customer. You have to recognize the difference. Why should he pay more to work with you if he doesn't see value? Do you believe that he will do better if he works with you?
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[quote=wind3574]The guy is truly a nice fellow in general, but for some reason when i make any sort of comment about investments, he thinks he knows more than me. I think there is just some sort of guard up, that I have to get through. He’s already told me to call him with more Muni bonds. I think there is some more business with this guy, I just gotta get that guard down…Thats the only reason i ask.[/quote]
He probably DOES know more than you. One thing for sure…he knows more about what HE WANTS than you do. You’ve proven THAT to him.
Slap !!!!!!
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Client = Someone who pays for your service, asks you what they should invest in, you say "muni bonds" and they buy. Customer = Someone who wants to buy muni bonds, looks up who sells them, walks in and buys muni bonds. Wind, when you went to Best Buy to purchase your 17" Magnavox TV. Did you go in there to buy a TV, or did you ask the salesman what the most affordable item in the store is for a newbie EDJ rep? Here's a scenario, you are the lead character: Wind: I'd like to buy a TV but I only have $200, can I get that one right there? (Points to 17" Magnavox) Salesman: Absolutely. Let me go into the back and grab the box for you. Wind: Thanks, I'm glad I came here to purchase a TV and you were kind enough to have what I wanted. Salesman: Your welcome. As a matter of fact, do you also store perishable food in your house? Wind: As a matter of fact, yes. Salesman: Great, well we have a new stock of Kenmore Refrigerators in the fridge aisle. I guarantee that this item will be an upgrade from your current fridge. Wind: Thats ok, I like my fridge. Salesman: I can appreciate that, but this one not only dispenses ice and water out of the door, but also ORANGE JUICE! Wind: Thats ok, I like my fridge. I'm allergic to oranges anyways. Salesman: I can appreciate that, but this one has a lifetime warranty and will never break down. Wind: Thats ok, I like my fridge. (Takes TV and goes to register to pay) (Meanwhile, Salesman walks to back to discuss recent sale with buddy co-worker) Salesman: I have a client that just bought a TV from me, how do you suggest I go about getting him to purchase a fridge as well? Buddy: Does he want to buy a fridge from you? Salesman: No, he just came in here for a TV and said he's happy with the fridge he has. Buddy: Ok...well maybe he's just happy with his fridge. Salesman: But our fridge is much better! I need to find a way to get him to take his guard down. Buddy: Take his guard down? Maybe he just doesn't want to buy a f***ing fridge. See the correlation?[quote=wind3574]I don’t fight with anyone. He was trying to start a fight over a comment i made. Thats all. We can’t put him in a fee based account at EDJ, except for advisory solutions, but the problem is getting him to see the value in an actual advisor. If he wasn’t already a client, i’d quit awhile back.[/quote]
Why do you consider him a client if he does not see the value of you as an advisor, just a guy that sells bonds?
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You have made it clear you DON'T know the difference between client and customer. If you would STFU for a bit and actually read what Alice is writing, you'd understand that he's spot on. Clients don't argue, put up walls or are unreceptive. Clients listen and are open minded to many kinds of ideas. The question is, do you want to make this guy a client? Just because he has money to invest doesn't mean he is an ideal client. Personally, I think the less you argue/sell/persuade this guy, the better off you'll be. You'll find out pretty quickly if he is willing to make a jump to 'client' status. Right now, it sounds like you're coming off as a bit too eager.lol…Not really because i haven’t asked him to buy anything else, so the second half of your senario could be erased. I’m just talking in mid conversation, we could be talking about nothing that is particular to him… He’s just a know it all. I’m just trying to find a way to bring down the wall he has. You are acting like i don’t understand your definition of a customer and a client. I understand that.
[quote=wind3574]lol…Not really because i haven’t asked him to buy anything else, so the second half of your senario could be erased. I’m just talking in mid conversation, we could be talking about nothing that is particular to him… He’s just a know it all. I’m just trying to find a way to bring down the wall he has. You are acting like i don’t understand your definition of a customer and a client. I understand that. [/quote]
Just give him a big wet windy kiss, that’ll break down any wall he has up!
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[quote=wind3574]I don’t give a sht your definition. Not an active client, but a client. The guy is gone most of the year and i’ve talked to him a few times in 6 months, not trying to sell him anything, or push anything so STFU. I’m just asking for a way to help bring down his wall and build a better relationship with the guy. So unless you have GOOD advice on that, f** you.[/quote]
With that winning attitude showing through once again I’m really baffled as to why more of us aren’t fighting one another for the honor of sharing our experience and advice with you. It truly must be one of those mysteries of life.
The funny thing is I actually thought I was giving a piece of good advice. Oh well, his loss.[quote=wind3574]I don’t give a sht your definition. Not an active client, but a client. The guy is gone most of the year and i’ve talked to him a few times in 6 months, not trying to sell him anything, or push anything so STFU. I’m just asking for a way to help bring down his wall and build a better relationship with the guy. So unless you have GOOD advice on that, f** you.[/quote]
With that winning attitude showing through once again I’m really baffled as to why more of us aren’t fighting one another for the honor of sharing our experience and advice with you. It truly must be one of those mysteries of life.
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Because you’re a stubborn S.O.B. and it takes someone getting a snide attitude to get through to you. Check out the stats, it took til the 7th page of this stupid thread for someone to say “You need to STFU and listen”.
See Windy this is when you derail. You’re so touchy.
[quote=deekay]
I apologize for being snide, Wind. Here's my advice, Windy. Until I know more about how you acquired this customer, his goals, his needs, etc., I suggest you continue to sell him munis. So far, you're selling him what he wants, which is good. What I would suggest is to ask him what he's looking to accomplish by buying munis. You'd be suprised how often when you dig a little deeper, what he wants can be accomplished a lot more effectively with another product. THIS is how you add value and prove your worth. Or, munis may be exactly the product he needs and you solidify your position as his "muni guy". Or, just ask him what it would take to earn more of his business besides munis. Couldn't hurt. Another suggestion? Partner with a senior FA you're comfortable with, and watch them work their magic. I can tell you from experience that having someone with more experience beside you (even if you give up a little comp) will go a long way to closing this guy a lot quicker. Finally, here is a personal observation. If you're this wound up by the comments of random people on a message board, god only knows how you are in person with prospects and clients. I meant what I said when I mentioned you could do a lot better by not being argumentative and letting the client talk. You would be amazed how much you can learn just by shutting the hell up. You man be talking during these meetings with prospects without knowing it - believe me, I've been there lots. I hope this all helps. If it was, I'm happy to help going foward provided you turn down the aggro crap. If it doesn't help, I'm done with you and I would suggest to others reading this NOT to help you anymore. [/quote]People only get this upset over one client when they are desperate for business and they're selling crap that noone wants to buy.
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How’s life Alice?
[quote=wind3574] [quote=Alice Cooper]
[quote=deekay]
Here's my advice, Windy. Until I know more about how you acquired this customer, his goals, his needs, etc., I suggest you continue to sell him munis. So far, you're selling him what he wants, which is good. What I would suggest is to ask him what he's looking to accomplish by buying munis. You'd be suprised how often when you dig a little deeper, what he wants can be accomplished a lot more effectively with another product. THIS is how you add value and prove your worth. Or, munis may be exactly the product he needs and you solidify your position as his "muni guy". Or, just ask him what it would take to earn more of his business besides munis. Couldn't hurt.
Another suggestion? Partner with a senior FA you're comfortable with, and watch them work their magic. I can tell you from experience that having someone with more experience beside you (even if you give up a little comp) will go a long way to closing this guy a lot quicker.
Finally, here is a personal observation. If you're this wound up by the comments of random people on a message board, god only knows how you are in person with prospects and clients. I meant what I said when I mentioned you could do a lot better by not being argumentative and letting the client talk. You would be amazed how much you can learn just by shutting the hell up. You man be talking during these meetings with prospects without knowing it - believe me, I've been there lots.
I hope this all helps. If it was, I'm happy to help going foward provided you turn down the aggro crap. If it doesn't help, I'm done with you and I would suggest to others reading this NOT to help you anymore.
[/quote]People only get this upset over one client when they are desperate for business and they're selling crap that noone wants to buy. [/quote]
Ya...thats it.....my paycheck says differently....
Thanks for the decent reply Deekay.....and it took 7 pages for someone to tell me to STFU....because the first 4 were good info.....then here come the vultures....[/quote] See, that's just it. Maybe it's because I'm used to Alice's personality, but I agree with him here. His demeanor is a bit harsh, but if you read between the lines, there is a good nugget of advice: Those with full pipelines don't have the time or patience to deal with a customer/client like this. It's real simple (thought maybe not easy) - ask your client what he wants AND SHUT THE FUUCK UP. If you're not willing to do that, find another person to do business with.
[quote=deekay][quote=wind3574] [quote=Alice Cooper]
[quote=deekay]
Here's my advice, Windy. Until I know more about how you acquired this customer, his goals, his needs, etc., I suggest you continue to sell him munis. So far, you're selling him what he wants, which is good. What I would suggest is to ask him what he's looking to accomplish by buying munis. You'd be suprised how often when you dig a little deeper, what he wants can be accomplished a lot more effectively with another product. THIS is how you add value and prove your worth. Or, munis may be exactly the product he needs and you solidify your position as his "muni guy". Or, just ask him what it would take to earn more of his business besides munis. Couldn't hurt.
Another suggestion? Partner with a senior FA you're comfortable with, and watch them work their magic. I can tell you from experience that having someone with more experience beside you (even if you give up a little comp) will go a long way to closing this guy a lot quicker.
Finally, here is a personal observation. If you're this wound up by the comments of random people on a message board, god only knows how you are in person with prospects and clients. I meant what I said when I mentioned you could do a lot better by not being argumentative and letting the client talk. You would be amazed how much you can learn just by shutting the hell up. You man be talking during these meetings with prospects without knowing it - believe me, I've been there lots.
I hope this all helps. If it was, I'm happy to help going foward provided you turn down the aggro crap. If it doesn't help, I'm done with you and I would suggest to others reading this NOT to help you anymore.
[/quote]People only get this upset over one client when they are desperate for business and they're selling crap that noone wants to buy. [/quote]
Ya...thats it.....my paycheck says differently....
Thanks for the decent reply Deekay.....and it took 7 pages for someone to tell me to STFU....because the first 4 were good info.....then here come the vultures....[/quote] See, that's just it. Maybe it's because I'm used to Alice's personality, but I agree with him here. His demeanor is a bit harsh, but if you read between the lines, there is a good nugget of advice: Those with full pipelines don't have the time or patience to deal with a customer/client like this. It's real simple (thought maybe not easy) - ask your client what he wants AND SHUT THE FUUCK UP. If you're not willing to do that, find another person to do business with. [/quote] When you are new like Wind you try and convince/close every prospect. It feels like you have to, only when you get a little longer in the tooth do you realize that you don't need everyone to be your client.
[quote=BondGuy]The posts about fund selection have it exactly right. Allocation determines performance, not individual investment selection. For example; in an up equity market even the poorest performing equity funds will outperform non equity funds. To benefit one must be invested in equity funds.
Points I make when up against Vanguard/no load: 1. Investment allocation determines performance. Vanguard has over 100 funds covering the investment allocation universe. Mr. Prospect, out of those 100 funds, do you know which ones to choose? 2. All companies have a choice. They can be the quality provider or the low cost provider. Vanguard has chosen to be the low cost provider. 3. To be the low price provider Vanguard has to control its costs. One of their biggest costs is people. Specifically managers to run their funds. Did you know that roughly ten years ago almost 1/3 of their managers quit when Vanguard refused to up their pay? How important are mangers? They are the ones who make all the investment decisions. Without them there are no funds. 4. And on that count let's talk about managers. How does one become a manager? These are people who go to college, then to business school and then take jobs as a junior analyst with major financial firms. That's a fancy title for gopher. But they get a chance to prove themselves and move into the big money positions as senior analyst, co- managers and then fund manager. When these people graduate they have a choice to make. The best and the brightest from the best schools can choose between the firms that pay the most money and have the best career path. The rest? well they go to low paying Vanguard. Mr. Prospect, do you want your money manged by the best and brightest or the people who couldn't get a job anywhere else on Wall Street?? 5. Do you know who John Bogle is? John Bogle is the founder of Vanguard. He is a brilliant businessman who became rich by convincing folks like you that you can do it yourself. He did this by reducing investing to one question- how much does it cost? John Bogle would like everyone to think he's a frugal guy. About ten-fifteen years ago John Bogle needed a heart transplant. Let me ask you this Mr. prospect: As Mr. Bogle went through that process do you think he asked about cost? Do you think he took the lowest priced surgeon? And if not why not? Of course he didn't shop price. He wanted the best and the brightest. The point is you get what you pay for. The best and brightest are good enough for him, but not for you.6. On that point let's say doing it yourself you could out perform the best minds on Wall Street. Guys like Bogle make it sound easy. But i assure you easy it's not. You could get lucky for a year or two but consistantly beating the street at what they are educated to do and do on a full time basis, that would be difficult. But let's say you can do it. The question is: How many hours a day, a week, per year would you have to devote to beat the best at what they do full time? And would it be worth it? Most people do the math and say no it's not worth the time. It's better to spend that time doing what you do best and paying us to do what we do best. You use your time to make the money and we use ours to manage it. What do you think?[/quote]
I used #3,5 yesterday Bondguy. Worked like a charm .. thanks!
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Been there, wait until it’s the wife! Don’t forget to send flowers or money.
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Any thought will do the trick, Windy.
Call him back and ask him how much he’s going to inherit from his mom. Then throw the bonds in his account and tell him that he authorized the purchase on the date of purchase.
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[quote=wind3574]I was going to send a card or something…[/quote]
Mail him a card with a kind message HANDWRITTEN on it. People remember that stuff.
[quote=BerkshireBull]
[quote=wind3574]I was going to send a card or something…[/quote]
Mail him a card with a kind message HANDWRITTEN on it. People remember that stuff.
[/quote]
I’d just stay away from telling him you are going to do 23k this month.
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If he is local, skip the card and go to the funeral. If you don't have a chance to speak to him personally, send a card after about the beautiful service.[quote=voltmoie]
[quote=BerkshireBull]
[quote=wind3574]I was going to send a card or something…[/quote]Mail him a card with a kind message HANDWRITTEN on it. People remember that stuff.[/quote]I’d just stay away from telling him you are going to do 23k this month.[/quote]
Actually I was going to write that in the card along with a copy of my paycheck stub and a thank you note for my car payment.
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[quote=wind3574] [quote=Sam Houston] [quote=wind3574] [quote=voltmoie] [quote=BerkshireBull] [quote=wind3574]I was going to send a card or something…[/quote]Mail him a card with a kind message HANDWRITTEN on it. People remember that stuff.[/quote]I’d just stay away from telling him you are going to do 23k this month.[/quote] Actually I was going to write that in the card along with a copy of my paycheck stub and a thank you note for my car payment.[/quote]
If he is local, skip the card and go to the funeral. If you don't have a chance to speak to him personally, send a card after about the beautiful service.[/quote]
I'll just have to send a card. I don't know anything about the situation or who the hell his mom even is. I'll just send a nice card.[/quote] So what if you don't know the mom. You know the son. He is grieving. Go to the funeral and show your respects for an important (hopefully) person in your clients life. People who do not care enough about him or his mom send cards.
My comments directed soley at DIY. But if you’d like I can make an anti- ETF for a fee argument as well.
Or, i can make the pro case if i need to. The heart transplant comment is an emotional appeal and not an investment counterpoint. Trying to win over DIY is usually a losing proposition. For that reason i rarely do it. I find myself at times in situations with prospects weighing the two sides. In those conversations I pull out as much rope as I need to pull them over the fence to my side. That said, i strongly believe that DIY are Madison Avenue victims who don't realize they drank the Koolaid. Gotta go I've got a wedding to go to today. I hate going to weddings on Saturdays. Screws up a perfectly good day of motorcycling. Today we have heavy thunderstorms predicted. And from the looks of the weather radar we're gonna get pounded. Like i said a perfect day to get the bike washed. I'm gonna miss it at some stupid country club! Damn![quote=BondGuy]My comments directed soley at DIY. But if you’d like I can make an anti- ETF for a fee argument as well.
Or, i can make the pro case if i need to. The heart transplant comment is an emotional appeal and not an investment counterpoint. Trying to win over DIY is usually a losing proposition. For that reason i rarely do it. I find myself at times in situations with prospects weighing the two sides. In those conversations I pull out as much rope as I need to pull them over the fence to my side. That said, i strongly believe that DIY are Madison Avenue victims who don't realize they drank the Koolaid. Gotta go I've got a wedding to go to today. I hate going to weddings on Saturdays. Screws up a perfectly good day of motorcycling. Today we have heavy thunderstorms predicted. And from the looks of the weather radar we're gonna get pounded. Like i said a perfect day to get the bike washed. I'm gonna miss it at some stupid country club! Damn![/quote]Instead of pulling them to your side, try keeping them on their side. Qualified prospects won't let you disqualify them.
Don’t go to the funeral, that will look salesy and out of place. If people ask your client how he knows you do you want him telling them “he’s a guy from Edward Jones who sold me a bond.” You don’t want to look like an ambulance chaser. If your client had died, go to the funeral, but for his mother, a nice card will be appropriate.
I disagree. It shows a level of respect to the client and their family. Just don't go to the funeral and start passing out business cards.Don’t go to the funeral, that will look salesy and out of place. If people ask your client how he knows you do you want him telling them “he’s a guy from Edward Jones who sold me a bond.” You don’t want to look like an ambulance chaser. If your client had died, go to the funeral, but for his mother, a nice card will be appropriate.
Going to the funeral is inappropriate and not paying your respects is inappropriate. Go to the wake, say a prayer, pay your respects, and send a card.
Here’s the deal: Wind doesn’t even like this person. The sole reason he’d be going is to lighten the guy up and get him to remove the shield he’s putting up. He could give two nuts about the guys mom. If this guy was a client that he had a good relationship with it would make sense to “show his respects”, but for all we know he’s had 3 conversations with the guy that ended once with him buying some bond and twice with the guy thinking Wind knows nothing about investments. This guy is going to think Wind is just a really nice guy, and not out grubbing up business?
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Wind, if you want this guy to become a serious client (if he has money and you won’t mind talking to him once a month), then go to the service (not the funeral, but the wake) and pay your respects. That says: 1. I care about you as a person, and 2. I want to deepen our relationship and 3. I am a professional. I will be here when you need me.
Then call him up a few days later and say, 'Mr. Prospect, I advise everybody to take your time making investment decisions at an emotional time like this. (That might keep him from working with his mom’s advisor.) I’d also like to sit down and explain to you the ins and outs of helping you get your mom’s estate settled.
As far as the Vanguard issue, do not argue with him. Just say something like, 'You’re right, Mr. Prospect, just as I believe that Baptists and Hindus and atheists will all find their way to heaven, I also believe that you can achieve your financial goals doing it yourself with Vanguard or investing with me and the money managers I recommend.
What I believe in, is getting your diversified into the proper mix of asset classes, getting you the best money manager who can manage risk as well as getting your return, making sure you have enough insurance, making sure you have an estate attorney, making sure your children can go the best college for them … and making sure I am here to serve you.
I bet this guy becomes a client for you. The fact that he’s having these arguments with you means that he respect you and means he is not quite sure of his own argument himself.
Good luck.
I disagree. This guy doesn’t want you at his wife’s funeral. You aren’t friends, you aren’t family. You are not close.
If some guy I knew from a business perspective wanted to come to the funeral of someone I loved, I would think they are trying to use my grief as an advantage. I doubt that he respects you because he's having arguments with you. He just wants to argue. Tell him you'd love to have these conversations with him - after business hours. But you are running a business (can't believe I just said that) and you have little time to waste on not conducting business.I’m guessing she is in the ground by now.
[quote=Moraen]I disagree. This guy doesn’t want you at his wife’s funeral. You aren’t friends, you aren’t family. You are not close.
If some guy I knew from a business perspective wanted to come to the funeral of someone I loved, I would think they are trying to use my grief as an advantage. I doubt that he respects you because he's having arguments with you. He just wants to argue. Tell him you'd love to have these conversations with him - after business hours. But you are running a business (can't believe I just said that) and you have little time to waste on not conducting business.[/quote]Perfect.
[quote=Moraen]I disagree. This guy doesn’t want you at his wife’s funeral. You aren’t friends, you aren’t family. You are not close.
[/quote]So paying your respects at the wake of a client's loved one is inappropriate?
Maybe he should prospect at the children's cancer ward instead.
[quote=buyandhold]
[quote=Moraen]I disagree. This guy doesn’t want you at his wife’s funeral. You aren’t friends, you aren’t family. You are not close.
[/quote]So paying your respects at the wake of a client's loved one is inappropriate?
Maybe he should prospect at the children's cancer ward instead.[/quote]
He met the guy 3 times. The guy bought a bond from him. Wind3457 has known him two months and the person that died was someone wind3457 had never met. You honestly think he should show up to the funeral? If the guy himself had died then maybe yes, but not for the guy's elderly mother. C'mon folks...
Volunteering at a hospital is different than going to a funeral or wake. I provide a service to the families that need it for free, and if the Doctor’s and Nurses and administrators choose to do business with me, so be it.
He doesn't know this guy. One big difference is I spend a LOT of time with these people, and I'm not discussing the pros and cons of Vanguard with them. These families become close with mine. Apples to oranges. I believe there is a thread about Ron Carson on here. Built his business by doing the things he enjoys.[quote=buyandhold] [quote=Moraen]I disagree. This guy doesn’t want you at his wife’s funeral. You aren’t friends, you aren’t family. You are not close.
[/quote]So paying your respects at the wake of a client's loved one is inappropriate?
Maybe he should prospect at the children's cancer ward instead.[/quote]
Thats the thing. You are viewing this as a prospecting opportunity. We're not ambulance chasers. Its a guys mothers funeral. What would you do if the guy who sold you your last car showed up at your moms funeral? Thats a "WTF is this guy doing here?" moment if I've ever heard one. And you can't bring up the argument of "That guys a car salesman, Wind is an advisor helping clients achieve their life goals" because thats not what is going on here. He bought a bond, not a financial plan, and he doesn't appear to want any advice.
Show up to the wake with a flask in your pocket, get wasted, and start flirting with his wife.
Show up to the wake with a flask in your pocket, get wasted, and start flirting with his wife.
I think there are two factors here.
One, this is a business where we have to knock on doors and call people during their dinner hour. Personally I think he will improve his chances of getting this guy as a client if he goes to the wake.
Later on, when Wind has $50 million in assets and two or three CPAs feeding him business he can decide what form of prospecting makes him feel comfortable and what feels icky. Then he can say, ‘I don’t cold call, and I don’t do business unless the prospect buys my philoslopy 100 percent.’ Until then, you do what you can do to build the business. I don’t agree with that, but that’s what I’ve seen so far.
Second, the guy did a bond from Wind. He opened an account, he wrote him a check, he told him the personal inforomation you need to divulge on an account form. He’s talking to him. I think he’d appreciate seeing him there, or be neutral.
Young guys like Wind at EJ – nobody is coming to us because we are investment experts or because our firm has the name of a Merrill in its glory days. They invest with us because we get into their lives.
[quote=Moraen]Volunteering at a hospital is different than going to a funeral or wake. I provide a service to the families that need it for free, and if the Doctor’s and Nurses and administrators choose to do business with me, so be it.
He doesn't know this guy. One big difference is I spend a LOT of time with these people, and I'm not discussing the pros and cons of Vanguard with them. These families become close with mine. Apples to oranges. I believe there is a thread about Ron Carson on here. Built his business by doing the things he enjoys.[/quote]I once tried prospecting at an event for Holocaust survivors
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