ML vs. EJ

[quote=entrylevelFA]

I am fresh out of college, 22 years old.  I've built my experiences in college and high school knowing I wanted to be an FA, so I have attracted the attention of both ML and EJ.  Could and FA's (or IR's) give an honest opinion as to which would be most beneficial?  A few factors...

1.  My wife and I are purchasing a home...I know I can succeed in the business, but the career seems to have a little more security with EJ.  Your thoughts?

2.  EJ has mentioned the possibility of starting me on the "Goodknight Program" where they basically gift me $5MM in nickel and dime accounts as a start.  Has anyone done this?  Is it beneficial?

3.  What kind of expenses are incurred if you run your own office (EJ) vs. using an ML office?

4.  Is the EJ base negotiable?  The reason I ask is that ML is putting an offer on paper that can get me a mortgage because it's a draw.  The EJ offer (which is the page ripped out of the "So you want to be an IR" guide or whatever they call it) has a base of ~22M, expect 52M the first year though.  "Expectations" don't get me a home, where as base (on a draw) does.

5.  I'm kind of a "company man."  I've worked for the same company since I was in 11th grade (it's not McDonalds, it's a Fortune 500 company).  Which company is better for "career" purposes?  I don't want a job, I want a career.  I also don't want to have to explain to my book why I'm changing wirehouses every 3-5 years. 

Thanks all for your help.

[/quote]

Here's my two cents.  Sounds like you may be a better fit for ML to me.  First, your branch expenses at Jones easily run 500/mo.  That's about half a mortgage payment for a typical first home in many parts of the country so definitely a factor to consider.  I dont know about Merrill but I know the expenses at Jones are real and you will feel it your first year.  

Not that the goodknight program is bad, but your perception of nickes and dimes is right on.  I would not even consider Jones if I were you unless I got a fat goodknight or a good existing office(there are a number of them these days).

As far as first year base pay.  I would take a lesson from the bank.  If they won't count "expectations" toward income I wouldn't either.  Doesn't surprise me that the Merrill offer is sweeter, Jones shells out a ton of money on that office you will work out of.  Merrill seems to give more to the starting rep.  It is also my understanding that an offer from Merrill is much harder to come by that an offer from Jones(can you fog a mirror).

Finally if you want a firm that you can grow with and stay at for years(ideally) I would give another point to Merrilll.  Much broader platform and opportunities to learn something about the biz other than new ways to sell stuff.  I am a Jones guy that went independent and would do it the same way again, so that is my first recommendation. But you said you are a company man, stay there for years etc. so I'd go with Merrill.

I say go with Merrill, they probably make the most sense, assuming they want you.

Good for you getting an offer so soon in your career.  Considering however that you've no experience with financial planning, I'd team up with a group that needs new blood, and that can make use of your referral network.

I've never heard of someone out-growing Merrill, but I read all the time about people outgrowing EJ.

I'm doing stuff with my wirehouse that I'd have no chance of doing with EJ.  They don't even like you to use C shares at EJ.

Ace

One of the things that happens when you're 22 is that you confuse a second interview with a job offer.

If---as in IF---a person gets an offer from Merrill they have been honored and it does not make sense to even wonder if it's a good idea to accept it.

It is also a bad idea to turn down an EJ offer in hopes that a Merrill offer will also be made.  The EJ decision maker doesn't like being treated like a kid who asks a girl for a date and she responds, "Saturday night?  Sounds nice, can I let you know on Saturday morning?"

Stallling an offer for a day or two is fine.  "I need to think it over, can I let you know Monday?" stuff is fine, but what won't be acceptable is to try to put the decision off for more than a few days.

Additionally you can screw up like this.  You accept an offer with EJ, then somebody else offers, so you quit EJ to accept that offer.

Remember everything goes on your U-4 and what your's now reports is that you are not loyal and cannot be trusted.  If you accept a job with a firm stay there for at least a year, longer would be even better.

What you have to remember is the firms have business models that they, the firms, believe will make their firm as profitable as their firm can be.

A rookie advisor is going to find the going tough regardless of which firm they work for and it's really easy to conclude that if you had more variety in your offerings you would make more sales.  Obviously there's truth in that point of view, however if you're washing out anywhere the problem is you, not your choice of things to sell.

If you're selling shoes and lose sales because you don't have a huge collection of styles and sizes blame the inventory--but if you lose almost all of your sales it's not your inventory, it's you.

++++

In another vein, you ex EJ types who are on this forum sneering that EJ will hire anybody.

What does that say about you?

Merrill. 

Thank you all for your helpful feedback.  Big Easy...I most certainly know the difference between a second interview and an offer.  An offer is an offer when its in writing.  Until then, I have nothing. 

Ace Planner...the interviews with ML have dealt mostly with my feelings towards groupwork (apparently young guys like me think they can build a business on their own at 22).  Thank you for reiterating this point though.  I am optimistic about working with a group, but wasn't sure if that was the right decision to make.  Having that confirmed by a third party makes me feel better.

Thanks again for the help, I will most certainly weigh all of your advice into my decision.

Merrill is going to offer you a lot broader choice on how you build your career (there are many options as to what your market is - ie. small business owner vs retiree) and you will learn a lot more and probably develop into a stronger sales person.

But..I'd hold off on that mortgage for 6 mos to a year to see if you actually survive either.   I interviewed with ML yesterday and the production requirements and time line are strict and impressive.  You need a $15 mil book within 24 months.    I'm guessing a lot don't survive a year or two.  I'd wait until you're past the first year or two in the industry and have a better idea of whether or not you'll still be here first.

Besides, if you do do well you may find you can afford a lot more house a year from now.  ML gives nice bonuses every time you hit a milestone and especially sweet if you beat them.

Don't count on surviving on a draw.  Having made a career in sales for most of my adult life, I'm telling you no one survives on draw because no one keeps you unless you are exceeding it by a margin, consistently.

Very good points, lostintexas.  I know for a fact I can't "survive" my whole life on a draw.  I also know if I don't exceed my draw with commissions, I won't have a job!  It's kind of a situation where I know I can succeed, but the bank doesn't.  Good point about the mortgage...perhaps it would be wise of me to hold off (for both negative and positive reasons).

How did your interview with ML go?  That 15MM is pretty intimidating, breaking it down by your quarters of production are even more intimidating! 

I have idea.  Why not go to work somewhere where failure is almost preordained for a few years.  Buy the house, have a kid, mature into a full fledged adult.

Then, armed with your seasoning and experience go into the business.

Your employer will be more inclined to offer an attractive training era compensation package, your prospects will find you more credible, and you will work smarter and harder because of the obligations of being an adult.

Years ago I was involved in an effort to determine what motivates young people.  We surveyed them and came to find that most of them were perfectly comfortable with the income that our minimum standards offered--which is why so many of them were achieving little more than the minimum.  It was their comfort level.

The decision was made to ignore young applicant as much as possible, and to put great value in being married with a mortgage.  A kid or two is even better.

[quote=Big Easy Flood]

I have idea.  Why not go to work somewhere where failure is NOT almost preordained for a few years.  Buy the house, have a kid, mature into a full fledged adult.

Then, armed with your seasoning and experience go into the business.

Your employer will be more inclined to offer an attractive training era compensation package, your prospects will find you more credible, and you will work smarter and harder because of the obligations of being an adult.

Years ago I was involved in an effort to determine what motivates young people.  We surveyed them and came to find that most of them were perfectly comfortable with the income that our minimum standards offered--which is why so many of them were achieving little more than the minimum.  It was their comfort level.

The decision was made to ignore young applicant as much as possible, and to put great value in being married with a mortgage.  A kid or two is even better.

[/quote]

That's what happens when the phone rings and you post something without looking it over.

[quote=entrylevelFA]

5.  I’m kind of a “company man.”  I’ve worked for the same company since I was in 11th grade (it’s not McDonalds, it’s a Fortune 500 company). 
Which company is better for “career” purposes?  I don’t want a
job, I want a career.  I also don’t want to have to explain to my
book why I’m changing wirehouses every 3-5 years. 

Thanks all for your help.

[quote=entrylevelFA]

How did your interview with ML go?  That 15MM is pretty intimidating, breaking it down by your quarters of production are even more intimidating! 

[/quote]

The interview went well until.....they actually read my resume and realized that despite 8 years of college, much of a CFP course of study completed AND 30 years of work experience, more than half of it in sales, I do not have a bachelor's degree.  In their corporate world, that automatically ruled me out.

They finished with..."if you can get it soon, we are very interested."

So far they are the only firm I've run into that with.   I have a second interview with AG Edwards today and UBS next week.  Wish me luck.

Scorpio, that's hillarious.  Didn't even notice.  I meant I'm not flipping burgers, but you are pretty sharp!

lostintexas, good luck.

Big Easy Flood, I entirely understand about the life experience "neccessary" to succeed in this business.  Though I don't have all the gray hair, I am married and in the process of buying a home (which does create grays!) and my last four years of work/school I have put in at least 80 a week counting social organizations I joined.  Is it possible?  I know the general failure rate is about 66-70%  Higher for guys like me, lower for seasoned guys like you.  I just feel like I understand that basically, I am entitled to nothing.  My branch manager isn't going to feed me with a silver spoon.  I am going to have to put in long hours and hope for a little luck.  I've always achieved at a young age, and by my calculation, you need to start young to hit the $1MM in production.  Give it to me straight, if I'm willing to take my shots at first, what are my odds?

[quote=lostintexas]The interview went well until.....they actually read my resume and realized that despite 8 years of college, much of a CFP course of study completed AND 30 years of work experience, more than half of it in sales, I do not have a bachelor's degree.[/quote]

Tommy: You know, lots of people go to college for eight years, Richard: Yeah, they're called doctors. 

From Tommy Boy

I have to ask, how did you spend eight years in college without getting a degree in something?

3 different majors, technically 4.

Clothing and Textile Design, Agricultural Economics, Business and Electrical Engineering

Plus the CFP courses (2 so far).

ADHD at its finest!   Oh...almost all of it taken at extremely competitive schools!

Now I want to go back and get an actual degree in Archeology so I can spend my retirement touring the world digging!

ML has a better range of tools, and a better name. Like a EJ broker
told me, if you don’t mind making 100k a year, and topping out at that,
come work for EJ. I say if you want to be a player, go work for
ML. 

No one is interested because to get the CFP now you need a bachelors

Bankrep CFP

ML vs. ED? That is like comparing someone getting their PHD vs. someone

just starting romper room.

[quote=bankrep1]

No one is interested because to get the CFP now you need a bachelors

Bankrep CFP

[/quote]

Does it matter what your bachelors degree is?  This is a stupid requirement, unless the requirement is that the BA be somewhat connected to the industry of financial adivce.  Is it? I haven't checked.

So, if I have a degree in Mesoamerican Anthropology and a minor in Art with a ceramics concentration (true story) this somehow makes me more qualified to sit for the CFP exam than a person who has been in the financial advisory business for the past 10 to 20 years?** This advisor who didn't either finish college or didn't attend a college because of unfortunate circumstances such as lack of money, military duties to family burdens, etc. is now forbidden to advance their career and gain a valuable designation?  Plus, if you are already a CFP you can have an 8th grade education?  No requirements to go back and make existing CFPs have a BA? 

This strikes me as being extremely unfair.  But we all know the reason behind this. The CFP organization wants to keep a stranglehold on their niche of the business and doesn't want to see broker/dealers and investment advisors stepping onto their turf.  I can understand that they don't want unqualified people to portray themselves as "Financial Planners" when they are really glorified sales people in the insurance and investment fields.

I say if you can pass the CFP, which is not an easy thing to do, then who gives a rats butt if you have a degree in Medieval History, Comparative Literature or Underwater Basketweaving.

** I thought (when I was in my 20's) I was going to be excavating archaeological sites and analyising pottery shards, then life takes another turn and who knows what lies ahead.    Best laid plans and all that stuff.

[quote=babbling looney][quote=bankrep1]

No one is interested because to get the CFP now you need a bachelors

Bankrep CFP

[/quote]

Does it matter what your bachelors degree is?  This is a stupid requirement, unless the requirement is that the BA be somewhat connected to the industry of financial adivce.  Is it? I haven't checked.

So, if I have a degree in Mesoamerican Anthropology and a minor in Art with a ceramics concentration (true story) this somehow makes me more qualified to sit for the CFP exam than a person who has been in the financial advisory business for the past 10 to 20 years?** [/quote]

What means, regardless of your major (since a broad-based liberal arts core should be required no matter what your major), is that you've achieved (minor though it may be) an educational level that's more and more becoming the absolute minimum.

[quote=mikebutler222][quote=babbling looney][quote=bankrep1]

No one is interested because to get the CFP now you need a bachelors

Bankrep CFP

[/quote]

Does it matter what your bachelors degree is?  This is a stupid requirement, unless the requirement is that the BA be somewhat connected to the industry of financial adivce.  Is it? I haven't checked.

So, if I have a degree in Mesoamerican Anthropology and a minor in Art with a ceramics concentration (true story) this somehow makes me more qualified to sit for the CFP exam than a person who has been in the financial advisory business for the past 10 to 20 years?** [/quote]

What means, regardless of your major (since a broad-based liberal arts core should be required no matter what your major), is that you've achieved (minor though it may be) an educational level that's more and more becoming the absolute minimum.

[/quote]

The requirement for a degree in order to qualify for the CFP designation is a good one and should have been instituted from the very beginning.

With luck the brokerage industry will wake up and realize that their representatives must be CFPs in order to compete--and then come to the conclusion that they can only hire college graduates because only college graduates will be able to obtain a CFP.

It is a joke that a high school drop out can become a financial advisor.

[quote=Big Easy Flood]

The requirement for a degree in order to qualify for the CFP designation is a good one and should have been instituted from the very beginning.

With luck the brokerage industry will wake up and realize that their representatives must be CFPs in order to compete--and then come to the conclusion that they can only hire college graduates because only college graduates will be able to obtain a CFP.

It is a joke that a high school drop out can become a financial advisor.

[/quote]

Yes every firm has some of these some even make it to GP

Ya know...the best guide is a combination of education AND work experience, not just a degree.

The website says the degree can be in anything, from any accredited school.  It doesn't even say the accrediting organization must be legitimate.  I can probably buy a degree.

There are reasons why NOT everyone gets to go to college, or even when that is an option, chooses to.   Me, I can pretty much blame my own choices to the largest degree.  I actually finished the engineering degree save for a couple of general ed classes I had no interest in taking.

Then I got married, had babies, got divorced and began the treadmill that is single parenthood, which leaves no time for college, especially in high priced silicon valley where just making enough to survive is a challenge.

As to me....I'm debating cramming the last couple of CFP classes in before the end of Nov so I can sit for the exam and have it.   Quite frankly I could probably pass the test anyway with what I know, but they do have the course requirement and I can't afford the boot camp training that preps you in one week to sit.

I think requiring a bachelor degree is a stupid requirement for most jobs.   It should be used only as part of evaluating a potential employee.

Who doesn't know a bunch of idiots that happen to have a degree?  And who doesn't know some amazingly brilliant people that don't?

The requirement is just plain elitism and that's stupid and in limiting the pool of potential candidates, it also limits out some great ones.

[quote=lostintexas]

I think requiring a bachelor degree is a stupid requirement for most jobs.   It should be used only as part of evaluating a potential employee.

Who doesn't know a bunch of idiots that happen to have a degree?  And who doesn't know some amazingly brilliant people that don't?

The requirement is just plain elitism and that's stupid and in limiting the pool of potential candidates, it also limits out some great ones.

[/quote]

There are very few, if any, college graduates who agree that having a degree is stupid.

Who among us did not know that getting a degree is a key to a significantly more secure future, a door opener for the "better" jobs and so forth.

Whenever you encounter somebody who is saying that it's not important, or it's elitism, or any of the other whines you can be sure you're talking to somebody who doesn't have one.

The CFP is on the right track, and their decision will benefit all of Wall Street when the firms can no longer justify hiring a kid without enough gumption to finish school.

I did not say getting a degree is stupid.  It is a smart idea and obviously one that is increasingly becoming a necessity.  I have one daughter in college, one going in a year and a son a few years after that.  All have had it drummed into them that a degree is a must lest they suffer a lack of choice due to not having one.

That said, I do believe that requiring a degree for most jobs is a shortsighted choice because there are many intelligent and capable folks out there without degrees and plenty of stupid people with degrees.

That's what I said.  Not that a degree is stupid, just that posession of one doesn't make you smarter or better qualified for most jobs.

Given you can't read...maybe you're one of the latter???

Oh..and I'm not a kid.  Asking for a degree from a 25 year old who doesn't have any life experience does make sense.   However, I've got 30 years work experience and a solid track record of success including having been executive management for most of the past 6 years.

In most cases that makes me a lot more qualified than a 25 year old, or a 30 year old, even if they have a masters.

I have worked with brand new MBAs (fresh out of a career that consists nearly soley of school) who think they have a clue what management is.  They don't.   That comes with experience.

[quote=lostintexas]

Oh..and I'm not a kid.  Asking for a degree from a 25 year old who doesn't have any life experience does make sense.   However, I've got 30 years work experience and a solid track record of success including having been executive management for most of the past 6 years.

In most cases that makes me a lot more qualified than a 25 year old, or a 30 year old, even if they have a masters.

I have worked with brand new MBAs (fresh out of a career that consists nearly soley of school) who think they have a clue what management is.  They don't.   That comes with experience.

[/quote]

But there is the issue of consequences for life decisions.  When you decided to not get a degree you made a decision.

It is my belief that that decision should have meant that you could never be allowed to call yourself a financial advisor, stock broker, or whatever term you choose to use du jour.

No "career" can become a profession without high standards, and I am in the camp that thinks that the long term survival of the industry is dependend on turning its image from being little more than high pressure sales to being a true profession.

You cannot become a doctor, lawyer or accountant without lots of education, it's criminal that somebody can become a finanical planner even though they dropped out of elementary school.

I realize I am being extreme, but there needs to be a line in the sand, and that line should be a BA degree in anything.  If you have it the door is open, if you don't the door is locked.

Yes the industry might miss a good one now and then, but the reward of not dealing with the riff raff more than offsets the loss of somebody who would have been an asset.

Again, life is not fair and decisions we make should have consequences.

Yeah..well I was in the industry and left it.  I still have all the other credentials and a degree wasn't a requirement for them.   I can still get a CHFC, a CFA or other credential.  The only one about to  be limited is the CFP which is only deemed superior due to the excellent marketing done by the firm that gives it out.

I have met some with that credential that are neither highly ethical or particularly intelligent and that criticism of the fact that such people have the credential has probably led to the new requirement, again a degree doesn't filter out either effectively.  In fact, the three people that come to mind at the moment all have a bachelor's degree.

Perhaps better oversight on their part might be a more solid choice, or elimination of eligibility for those that opted to take one of the quickie boot camps to fulfill the course requirements instead of taking the classic long route.

I know that discussion has been made over the past few years but no.....4 days of cramming for an exam will get you the credential.   I'm looking into that option myself a this point, not because I believe I will learn enough from it (how could anyone really learn in 4 days what most take a couple of years to learn), but because it is allowed.

Do you think the position of "Finanical Advisor" can ever take on the status of a profession as long as a guy who quit school after first grade and has been driving a bulldozer can become a financial advisor?

Life choices--quit school and doors close. Reality is not pleasant, but it's reality.

I would propose that my choice not to go to college and instead work in a real world setting for 4 years gave me much more applicable, relevant and marketable skills than any of my friends who chose to go party for 4 years and cram a bunch of sh*t they forgot into their hungover minds.  I believe that apprenticeship type programs are far more effective at developing a usefull skill base than most academic programs.  The problem of burnouts and unqualified people doing this business should be remedied by an overhaul of how FA's are trained....which I think would be best suited by an apprenticeship type approach (within a team setting perhaps), since developing an investment aptitude is so experiential in nature (not something that books or assignments can really develop) and generally requires being in the trenches for awhile.

BEF it is becoming clear that you are one of the most narrow and petty people I have ever come across.

I used to think that a degree requirement was stupid.  I thought that “degree or equivalent experience” made more sense.  Now I think that I was naïve to have thought that.  Yes, I agree 100% that it is easy to give numerous examples of idiots who have degrees and geniuses who do not.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

I didn’t take the traditional path for college.  I graduated high school in 1991 and didn’t receive my undergraduate until 2004.  I tried many times and stopped for a multitude of reasons (availability of high-paying tech jobs, lack of money for tuition, too much time partying).  It was not until I grew up a bit that I decided to go back to school and finally get a degree.  At that time I didn’t go because I felt I needed the degree but more so to be able to say that I was not beaten by college.  A strange thing happened while finishing college at night.  I realized that I loved to learn now that I finally had real world experience to apply some of what I learned in class.  I could have never have gotten that value should I have finished college in the four years after high school.  I liked learning so much that I directly on to earning my MBA.  I can most assuredly tell you that I now see the value of a degree and why many places require it.

Now I’ll try to get to the point of my post.  Regardless of how experienced you are in the real world, you will learn even more while earning an undergraduate or graduate degree.  I’m not saying that every class is applicable to life but instead I’m saying that it broadens your knowledge base and helps you see things in a different light.  I now think that degree requirements make sense but not in absolute terms. 

Maybe you are one of those exceptional people.  The unfortunate thing for you is that you will have to fight the degree requirement with most potential employees.  If you already have so many college credits then my suggestion is that you finish your undergraduate.  There are so many options today that no excuse is sufficient.  I believe that you will find earning a degree easier than having to fight the degree requirement for the rest of your life.  Add to that the feeling of accomplishment that you will have and the return will certainly be worth the investment.

Maybe you can still work something out with Merrill Lynch.  You will have to sell yourself and follow-up with a lot of hard work.  Maybe they will take you on if you come to them with a plan to have both your undergraduate degree and the CFP before you finish POA.

WM

[quote=dude]

BEF it is becoming clear that you are one of the most narrow and petty people I have ever come across.

see post on other thread BEF…oops no capital, darn I must be stoopid.

I understand making it at Merrill is very difficult…need lots more assets than at Jones to be considered good enough to keep.

well, let us not forget that you can't get into this business without passing a series of tests, as well as a background check.  Then you have to prove yourself capable.  This is hardly an easy career track under any circumstances.

Once proven you can survive all that, you shouldn't be held to ANY arbitrary standard.

[quote=peanutbroker]I understand making it at Merrill is very difficult...need lots more assets than at Jones to be considered good enough to keep. [/quote]

True, but the Merrill franchise helps immensely.

Over the years organizations such as The Securities Industry Association have run surveys regarding name recognition.

When asked, "If you found yourself needing professional investment advice how would you go about getting it?" an extraordinary number of people responded with a simple, "I would call Merrill Lynch."

There are few names in American business that have more name recognition, linked to their primary business, than "Mother Merrill."

They are to the brokerage industry what McDonalds is to fast food.

But there is the issue of consequences for life decisions.  When you decided to not get a degree you made a decision.

It is my belief that that decision should have meant that you could never be allowed to call yourself a financial advisor, stock broker, or whatever term you choose to use du jour.

So the fact that I have a degree in Anthropology and Art/Ceramics makes me more qualified to obtain a CFP designation than someone who may have worked in the industry for years, has actual experience is able to study and pass the CFP courses and IS able to pass the CFP test?

I can calculate the frit to flux in a glaze and throw a good piece of ceramics. I can tell you if an artifact is Mayan or Proto Aztec and from what eras.  So what. How does this make me more qualified to use the CFP designation than somebody else.

My contention is that if they are going to require a degree then it should be relevant to the occupation.  The rule is just another way to keep people who are otherwise qualified from competing with the current designees.

Which of my points of view is petty?

Do you think the position of "Finanical Advisor" can ever take on the status of a profession as long as a guy who quit school after first grade and has been driving a bulldozer can become a financial advisor?

It is petty and elitist when you stereotype a person who has done manual labor as being less. Less intelligent, less cultured, less qualified and precluded forever from advancing themselves. 

You also exaggerate

Babbling, if I recall you do not have a degree.  Is that correct?

If so, would you agree that you are hardly an impartial speaker on behalf of those who believe a degree should be required?

Your analogy of having a degree in ceramics versus "X" years in the business is ill formed.  The question is not measuring the relevant skills to be a financial advisor it is attempting to build credibilty for the term financial advisor.

You could argue that a person who can pass the bar exam should be allowed to be a lawyer--be they self taught or from Harvard Law.

The argument may even make sense, but the reality is that the profession we call "The Law" is based on the assumption that lawyers are not self taught.

Wall Street has long wanted to institute an education requirement as a winnowing tool, however the smaller firms who dominate NASD issues were never in favor of it.

What seems to have happned is the CFP people are realizing that if their designation is to have currency among the public they have to have minium standards, and a college degree is not too much to ask of a person who is going to present themselves as an "expert" in financial planning.

I understand that a degree in something unrelated would be worthless background for financial planning--but what it does is prove that the person accomplished somthing worthwhile in their life.

The move is to make this a profession, and professions have standards.

I think if you sat down with the people who push for educational standards you would find that they agree with you that not any old degree should count.

They would favor a BA in a business discipline to even be allowed to sit for the Series 7.

On the other side are those who scream "Who are you to judge?"

So we're at a compromise.  You don't have to have a BA in a business discipline, but you do have to have a BA.

As it should be.  Failing to complete college has consequences, and one of them should be that you cannot offer advice about financial matters.

I understand that a degree in something unrelated would be worthless background for financial planning--but what it does is prove that the person accomplished somthing worthwhile in their life.

The move is to make this a profession, and professions have standards.

I think if you sat down with the people who push for educational standards you would find that they agree with you that not any old degree should count.

[/quote]

Not that my opinion really matters here, but Mr. BEF- it seems you take issue most in this forum when people don't capatilize, spell correctly or use proper grammer so I hafta ask...were you an English Major?

And how does that help you in advising your clients?

Just wondering....

Muny

He doesn't have clients.  He is a failed advisor

[quote=munytalks]

Not that my opinion really matters here, but Mr. BEF- it seems you take issue most in this forum when people don't capatilize, spell correctly or use proper grammer so I hafta ask...were you an English Major?

And how does that help you in advising your clients?

Just wondering....

[/quote]

Any person with an iota of self respect would want to always be at their best.

One does not have to be an English major to recognize sloppy writing, poor punctuation, and lousy spelling.

Why anybody seeks to excuse poor performance and sloppy work escapes those of us who accomplished something with our own lives.

But then why would someone give up an executive level position at a major brokerage to sell stuff on eBay for a living?

That truly smacks of a sophisticated intellect.

Mr. Bef,

Okay, but I also wonder how valid is a Degree when earned that uses information, technology and ideas from 40 years ago?

Like, back when you started in the Financial Industry, I bet a guy who could read a ticker-tape really fast was Top Dog.  But now, who needs it?

The other thing is, it seems like dude is very young. He is just starting his life. How do you know he won't accomplish anything with it?

If I were you I'd be hoping dude doesn't flunk out of the Financial world. He might end up in the Medical profession. There you'll be one day, sitting in your wheelchair - resident of a Nursing Home for Retired Put Traders.... you'll be correcting grammer and pointing out spelling errors and BAM! dude will recognize you as BEF. He'll volunteer to take you out on stroll.

The last thing you hear as he gives you one big shove down Lombard Street is  "i must be stoopid!"

I think it's a Zen saying "One mans' heaven is another mans' hell."

[quote=Starka]

But then why would someone give up an executive level position at a major brokerage to sell stuff on eBay for a living?

That truly smacks of a sophisticated intellect.

[/quote]

Who gave up a job to sell things on e-Bay?  E-Bay is fun, have you ever tried it?

[quote=munytalks]

Mr. Bef,

Okay, but I also wonder how valid is a Degree when earned that uses information, technology and ideas from 40 years ago?

Like, back when you started in the Financial Industry, I bet a guy who could read a ticker-tape really fast was Top Dog.  But now, who needs it?

The other thing is, it seems like dude is very young. He is just starting his life. How do you know he won't accomplish anything with it?

If I were you I'd be hoping dude doesn't flunk out of the Financial world. He might end up in the Medical profession. There you'll be one day, sitting in your wheelchair - resident of a Nursing Home for Retired Put Traders.... you'll be correcting grammer and pointing out spelling errors and BAM! dude will recognize you as BEF. He'll volunteer to take you out on stroll.

The last thing you hear as he gives you one big shove down Lombard Street is  "i must be stoopid!"

I think it's a Zen saying "One mans' heaven is another mans' hell."

[/quote]

Degrees prove you were able to set a goal and finish it.

It is impossible to have gone to high school in this country and not encountered a teacher, coach, principal or counsellor who did not tell you that you should go to college.  That does not mean  enroll for a semester and then quit, it means graduate.

If you did not graduate you made a choice.  That choice means you cannot be a school teacher, you cannot be a doctor, you cannot be a lawyer, you cannot be an accountant, you cannot be a lot of things.

Financial planner should be on that list too. That it isn't has been a bone of contention within the industry for years.  It appears as though it may be changing, and such change is for the good.

It is ridiculous that a guy who dropped out of school because fifth grade was too challenging can later come back and become a financial advisor.

It's a joke, and anybody who has an inkling of what qualifications and standards are all about agrees.

Flying airplanes is fun.  Competition shooting is fun.  Driving a performance car is fun.  Selling stuff on eBay is work.

Or perhaps that's your contribution to society.

Oh well.  Macht nixt to me.  Carry on with your "life".

I forgot to say that rolling down Lombard Street in a wheel chair would be a great way to go.

Right now my plan is to dance off the back of a boat like The Silver Wind while it cruises somewhere near Surabaya.

But not for a number of years.

The problem with suicide plans like that is by the time the plan is  appropriate you can no longer pull it off, if you can even remember what the plan was.

[quote=Starka]

Selling stuff on eBay is work.

[/quote]

Only if you're world-class lazy.

I must yield to your expertise on the subject and practice of “laziness”.

Let me tell you a quick e-Bay story.

About fifteen years ago--maybe even longer--I was in Frankfurt to call on a German bank who was considering hedging their US equities with index options.

I flew over on Delta but for some reason I had to take Lufthansa back to New York.

They gave everybody in first class a Swatch watch--celebrating something or other.  It was in a plastic case and then in a cardboard container with the event commerated in German--and then that was in a cardboard box suitable for mailing.

I slipped it into my briefcase and then into a drawer where it was forgotten for years.

About five or six years ago my wife came across it, took a photograph of it and put it on e-Bay.

She sold it for $2,201 US to a guy from Madrid. He got into a bidding war with a guy from Hong Kong and another from Copenhagen.  It took him close to a month to send the money--but he did send it.

E-Bay is like the ultimate garage sale.  Worldwide shoppers.

I went to see Sunset Boulevard several times in New York.  Once was when Betty Buckley was playing the lead.  On the way out of the theater I made a spontaneous purchase--a four song CD for $20.

Two years ago my wife sold it for $275.  Some went for as much as $1,000.

A Coca Cola bottle--commerating 49 years of Delta Air Lines flight attendants, issued to make them think the airline loved them so they would not unionize.  About 5 years ago they were selling for $100 apiece on e-Bay.

You have to be there at the right time, but one man's junk is another man's treasure.

BEF,

You just proved what a piker you really are....

[quote=bankrep1]

BEF,

You just proved what a piker you really are....

[/quote]

Why because my wife has found some stuff and sold it on e-Bay?  How does that make me a piker?

Because you’re so excited over making $100 on some junk that you packrats held onto for a very long time.

[quote=bankrep1]Because you're so excited over making $100 on some junk that you packrats held onto for a very long time.[/quote]

Excited?  I commented on selling a watch I was given and a CD I bought for $20.

These two items were sold for close to $2,500 which is more than you've ever seen at one time.

BEF,

You obviously think $2500 is alot of money, probably made your year, did you get to take the wifey to the Holiday inn in Aruba

Why do u have a WIFE at such a young, tender age?

[quote=Scorpio]

[quote=entrylevelFA]

5. I’m kind of a “company man.” I’ve worked for the same company since I was in 11th grade (it’s not McDonalds, it’s a Fortune 500 company).

Which company is better for “career” purposes? I don’t want a

job, I want a career. I also don’t want to have to explain to my

book why I’m changing wirehouses every 3-5 years.

Thanks all for your help.

Oops sorry…this showed up as an “Active Thread” but it looks like its so old that by now the OP is so fed up of ML & retired. My bad!