ML- Paybacks are a B1TCH!

if you’re in this biz for the long term and fully committed sign the agreement and move on. thirty-two months at ML won’t hurt you.

The typical cost to bring in someone new and train them is about $100,000 (home office allocations, computer, office space, travel to NJ, et.).  The breakeven for a ‘rookie’ who is successful is about six years.  The firm will go after your contracted dollar amount if you go work for another firm within their timeframe stated on the contract (even if you’re terminated).  However, leagally - it’s tough to justify to a court that they fired you and now want you to pay them training costs. 

[quote=WealthManager]

I understand the need to have a contract to repay the costs of training but when do the costs become excessive?<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

I was given an “Agreement to Repay Costs of Training” letter to sign.  While I have no intention to leave ML, I don’t like the feeling of being an indentured servant.  The ML contract requires that I stay 32-months (8-months pre=production + 24-months production) in order to leave without needing to repay costs of training.  Any service period less than 20-months requires repayment of $38K and any service over 20-months but under 32-months requires $19K.  Aren’t these payback amounts and timeframes excessive?  How binding are these contracts?  My experience would indicate that they don’t stand up well in court

The contract says that they can even go after me for repayment should I be terminated.  Does anyone know of a case where their office actually pursued repayment for any causes?

WM

[/quote]

Let me see if I have this right.  You've been offered a position with the world's premier wirehouse and you're worrying about your obligations when you quit?

Where do you plan to go from Merrill, SW Bach?

[quote=apprentice] The breakeven for a 'rookie' who is successful is about six years.  [/quote]

How do you figure that?  They're keeping the lion's share of any revenue you bring in.  A successful rookie will have graduated the program and will have at least $15mm AUM at graduation, probably making the company well over that $100k (even after paying the rep their salary and any bonuses, commissions).

[quote=STL Indy]

[quote=apprentice] The breakeven for a 'rookie' who is successful is about six years.  [/quote]

How do you figure that?  They're keeping the lion's share of any revenue you bring in.  A successful rookie will have graduated the program and will have at least $15mm AUM at graduation, probably making the company well over that $100k (even after paying the rep their salary and any bonuses, commissions).

[/quote]

There is more to the compensation package salary, bonus and commission.

Thanks BEF - there's a lot more to the comp.  Besides - if you're doing less than $250,000 gross, you're a liability to the firm.  It's when you begin to do over the $250,000 that you actually begin to be profitable.  Pareto says 80/20 - 20% of the brokers actually make money for your firm.  Assets don't pay the bills - gross production does.  If you have $50 million in assets and only produce $100k in gross - you're warehousing.  A successfull 'Trainee' should be producing above $250,000 by the end of year four - otherwise, you're just pretending.

[quote=Big Easy Flood]Let me see if I have this right.  You’ve been offered a position with the world’s premier wirehouse and you’re worrying about your obligations when you quit?

Where do you plan to go from Merrill, SW Bach?[/quote]

I'm not planning on quitting but I've heard that the success rate is around 10%.  Also if after a year or so of production I decide that a wirehouse isn't the right fit for me I want to keep my options open at investment banks such as JPM, GS and BS.

[quote=WealthManager]

I'm not planning on quitting but I've heard that the success rate is around 10%.  Also if after a year or so of production I decide that a wirehouse isn't the right fit for me I want to keep my options open at investment banks such as JPM, GS and BS.

[/quote]

Ah, confidence born of ignorance of the realities.

If you're making it at Merrill you won't be intersted in changing to JPM, GS or BS.

On the other hand, if you're not making it at Merrill you won't even get an interview at places like JPM, GS or BS.  Oh you might get an initial interview by some HR type, but when you're asked about your numbers at ML and they're not so very good the curtain will close.

You know something.  If you have what it takes to go work at JPM, GS--BS is not that selective--and you think that's your ultimate goal, why not just go there now?

If you can't cut it at Goldman today why do you think they'll be interested in a year or two?  What's going to change?

The subscription for your terminal alone is about $1,000 per
month.  If have $15 mil under mgt at 1% at the end of 2 years,
thats $150,000 in production going forward.  From that you have to
take your salary, say $50 grand (X2 years).  Then there is the
$24K for the use of the computer.  There is the cost of the
computer itself, but that can be recycled and capitalized, as can the
office space.  But the phone bill and mail costs are hard
dollars.  Then they have to shell out the quarterly bonuses to
you, and possibly stock if you do well.  If you get out within 24
months and may back the $38k…believe me, you were still a very big
losing experience to Mother.

In situations when the trainee shows some signs that he will succeed in the business and another firm tries to headhunt him (for example in month 12 of production), the hiring B/D usually pays the legal costs and or penalties????

Can someone confirm this??

[quote=Big Easy Flood]If you can't cut it at Goldman today why do you think they'll be interested in a year or two?  What's going to change?[/quote]<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

It's not that I can't cut it.  It's that I missed the new MBA hiring cycles.  The MBA program I am/was in (finishing this weekend) is for working professionals and we are not allowed access to the recruiting channels.  Even if that were not an issue, I was not decided on this career path until March of this year.  The recruiting for the MBAs started in September.

The truth is that I don’t have a single thing against Merrill Lynch.  On the contrary I think they are an excellent company and I will be proud to work for them.  I like the latitude that they give but they are still very different from a JPM or GS.  The clients serviced and the roles played are vastly different.  One of my mentors has worked for JPM for almost seven years and he has over $7B in AUM.  Imagine having that at ML and getting 40% of the production for that.

The biggest concern I have is that my schooling will be underappreciated regardless if I can sell or not.  I think it's a valid concern considering what I sacrificed to get the degree.

WM

Seven BILLION?  BILLION?  BILLION?  After 7 Years? 
Is their title “Mutual Fund Portfolio Manager”?  If the are a rep
with that much AUM it would make them one of the the largest producers
in the world.  At anywhere near that level their pay-out at ML
would far exceed 40% BTW (Unless they are running a pile of corporate
cash inan institutional platform of course). You run in some pretty
interesting circles. 



Your degree will be underappreciated for some time.  Not because
you will not us it, but because it will not be acknowledged as you feel
it should be.  Your concern is valid and with all of your posts I
fear you have made a mistake.  Good luck.

Damn, he's got an MBA?  Wow, that's a rarity in Wall Street, he should be a hiring manager's dream.

Something to consider.

If you're really an attractive new hire you will get an offer during a hiring freeze or even if the hiring cycle has passed.

If you're ever told, "Gosh you missed the hiring cycle, or we are in a hiring freeze" understand that what is being said is a variation of "Don't call us, we'll call you."

[quote=rightway]Your degree will be underappreciated for some time.  Not because you will not use it, but because it will not be acknowledged as you feel it should be.  Your concern is valid and with all of your posts I fear you have made a mistake.  Good luck.
[/quote] <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Thank you.  Your responses have been very helpful.

I'm not so much concerned that I made a mistake but more so that I didn't generate enough options before making a decision.  That is not to say that if I were presented with other options that I would have chosen differently.  It's just that there is an uneasy feeling associated with signing up for a 30-month commitment….especially one that I was not made aware of until the last moment and after I turned down other options.

I will now focus all of my energies and on working out ways to increase my chances for success.  I've already started prospecting and I have had a handful of people (non-family) tell me they are willing to give me some assets to manage for them.  If they follow through, that will give me close to a $3M start.  I don’t think they would have been willing to give me some of their assets without FA experience should I have not had my educational background.  It will however take some time to pay back the $115K I spent on my MBA tuition.

WM

[quote=WealthManager]

[quote=rightway]Your degree will be underappreciated for some time.  Not because you will not use it, but because it will not be acknowledged as you feel it should be.  Your concern is valid and with all of your posts I fear you have made a mistake.  Good luck.
[/quote] <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Thank you.  Your responses have been very helpful.

I'm not so much concerned that I made a mistake but more so that I didn't generate enough options before making a decision.  That is not to say that if I were presented with other options that I would have chosen differently.  It's just that there is an uneasy feeling associated with signing up for a 30-month commitment….especially one that I was not made aware of until the last moment and after I turned down other options.

I will now focus all of my energies and on working out ways to increase my chances for success.  I've already started prospecting and I have had a handful of people (non-family) tell me they are willing to give me some assets to manage for them.  If they follow through, that will give me close to a $3M start.  I don’t think they would have been willing to give me some of their assets without FA experience should I have not had my educational background.  It will however take some time to pay back the $115K I spent on my MBA tuition.

WM

[/quote]

$115k on the degree and your TRUE due diligence began:

Joined: May 16 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 43

i know some MBA's like you - waiting tables.

it sounds like you're in for a slow liftoff relative to your degree- but with good luck, a good attitude (you'll need work on this), hard work and a few more million$ contacts, you'll be allright-

[quote=TexasRep]

$115k on the degree and your TRUE due diligence began:

Joined: May 16 2006
[/quote]

The join date does not tell much of the story.  I'm 33-year old career changer.

Youre insane if you sign that contract.  People on this board (obviously) act like being an FA is the ultimate in job success if you hit the numbers.  The reality is that its like other career for even those who ‘make it,’ and people do want to leave for better opportunities. 

xmsbroker you are the most negative person on the board. If you hate the field so intensely why do you continue to post on these message boards?



Secondly, why are so enamored with WealthMangers’ degree? Read the article on nytimes.com entitled "Was earning that Harvard MBA worth it?"



I quote "…But others advocate hands-on experience over academic buffing and polishing. “M.B.A. programs train the wrong people in the wrong ways with the wrong consequences,” said Henry Mintzberg, a management professor at McGill University in Montreal.



In 2003, Professor Mintzberg tracked the performance of 19 students who graduated from the Harvard Business School in 1990 and were at the top of their class academically. Ten of the 19 were “utter failures,” he said. “Another four were very questionable, at least,” he added. “So five out of 19 did well.”

[quote=fired?]xmsbroker you are the most negative person on the board. If you hate the field so intensely why do you continue to post on these message boards?

Secondly, why are so enamored with WealthMangers' degree? Read the article on nytimes.com entitled "Was earning that Harvard MBA worth it?"

I quote "...But others advocate hands-on experience over academic buffing and polishing. "M.B.A. programs train the wrong people in the wrong ways with the wrong consequences," said Henry Mintzberg, a management professor at McGill University in Montreal.

In 2003, Professor Mintzberg tracked the performance of 19 students who graduated from the Harvard Business School in 1990 and were at the top of their class academically. Ten of the 19 were "utter failures," he said. "Another four were very questionable, at least," he added. "So five out of 19 did well."
[/quote]

I dont hate the field, I do think its important to express the other side. 

All due respect xmsbroker, but how should WealthManager go about landing any of the jobs talked about above without signing this contract (which I am sure requires him to to sign a non-compete agreement, also). I don't claim to know everything about any of these companies, but I do know that most of them (if not all) require you to sign these agreements. If you are saying he should attempt to come to some agreement with ML allowing him to not sign these contracts, then I completely agree, but what if they say no? He will esentially have no choice but to sign or find a new profession.

Also, no one answered WMs question, leaving me curious. Do these B/Ds actually pursue their money if they let you go? It was stated above that it would be hard to back that up in court, but is this normal practice or is this agreement (as I would imagine it to be) in place more for people who switch B/Ds or quit in the middle of their training?

In 3.5 years MS has never attempted to enforce the repayment clause in their contract. I repeat, never. Ask xmsbroker. The only time these clauses are enforced are if you leave for another broker/dealer.



Also they will most assuredly not pursue the training costs if you are terminated.

[quote=wlooney]

Also, no one answered WMs question, leaving me curious. Do these B/Ds actually pursue their money if they let you go? It was stated above that it would be hard to back that up in court, but is this normal practice or is this agreement (as I would imagine it to be) in place more for people who switch B/Ds or quit in the middle of their training?

[/quote]

assume any BD is gonna' come looking for you if you use the investment of their time, patience, expertise and money to simply "take" and then "leave" for another firm-

if you quit to go wait tables for a year or 3, you're PROBABLY ok-

This is what I have seen firsthand in my office - They will ONLY come
after you for repayment if you go to a rival firm as an FA.  You
can quit or get fired within the outlined time frame and not have to
worry about it.



I would love to see them come after me for 38k…I have negative net worth…good luck getting 38k out of me…

[quote=WealthManager]

[quote=TexasRep]

$115k on the degree and your TRUE due diligence began:

Joined: May 16 2006
[/quote]

The join date does not tell much of the story.  I'm 33-year old career changer.

[/quote]

sorry- but i'm still a bit astonished at your naiveté-

[quote=wlooney]

All due respect xmsbroker, but how should WealthManager go about landing any of the jobs talked about above without signing this contract (which I am sure requires him to to sign a non-compete agreement, also). I don't claim to know everything about any of these companies, but I do know that most of them (if not all) require you to sign these agreements. If you are saying he should attempt to come to some agreement with ML allowing him to not sign these contracts, then I completely agree, but what if they say no? He will esentially have no choice but to sign or find a new profession.

Also, no one answered WMs question, leaving me curious. Do these B/Ds actually pursue their money if they let you go? It was stated above that it would be hard to back that up in court, but is this normal practice or is this agreement (as I would imagine it to be) in place more for people who switch B/Ds or quit in the middle of their training?

[/quote]

Yes, he should negotiate changing the terms.  If that doesnt work, he shouldnt jump in w/ this many question marks about whether its right for him

[quote=fired?]In 3.5 years MS has never attempted to enforce the repayment clause in their contract. I repeat, never. Ask xmsbroker. The only time these clauses are enforced are if you leave for another broker/dealer.

Also they will most assuredly not pursue the training costs if you are terminated.[/quote]

While I agree w/ the terminated part, I dont know if thats completely true.  I simply didnt know many people who broke the contract so I dont have a lot of examples to draw from...  If you left for a high paying job like WM is talking about, its completely possible they would pursue it or at least have their lawyers send threatening letters with the hope you will settle out of court for less.  I have heard of that, though not from anyone I know personally.

A few things:

1.  Pareto's Law would state that 20% of the brokers make 80% of the money, not 20% of the brokers make all the money.  If you're not making ANY money for ML, you won't be working for ML. 

2.  I haven't seen the no compete agreement yet (still in the hiring process) but was a pre-law student.  In the contract, there will be a section with different ways you can violate the no compete agreement.  If it specifically states "If we terminate you, you must repay us the training costs" then you should request an addendum before signing.  If it does not state this, consider ML firing you breaching a contract.  At that point, all suits over 38M are off.  There is no way in hell that ML would waste their time and money going after you for 38M when they terminated your employment.

3.  7 Billion AUM?  Are you kidding me?  Under the ML grid, that's like 2.45MM in management fee commission alone.  I just read an article a month ago in Barron's about the top 100 FA's in the country, if this is true, this guy is an All-Star because that probably places him top 10.  Maybe he was a fund manager?

[quote=entrylevelFA]

2.  I haven't seen the no compete agreement yet (still in the hiring process) but was a pre-law student.  In the contract, there will be a section with different ways you can violate the no compete agreement.  If it specifically states "If we terminate you, you must repay us the training costs" then you should request an addendum before signing.  If it does not state this, consider ML firing you breaching a contract.  At that point, all suits over 38M are off.  There is no way in hell that ML would waste their time and money going after you for 38M when they terminated your employment.

[/quote]

i'm not pre-law, but i have signed a few franchise-type contracts that no pre-law / post-law person in their right mind would ever sign-- basically it was "if you pick your nose in public, we terminate you and take all of the assets" --- totally enforceable? doubtful. Will they allow you to insert an addendum? hilarious.

if you wanted to be in their system, you signed their contract-- to mix metaphors: they hold all the cards and you roll the dice-- if it comes up snake-eyes, run for cover, protect your assets as best you can (can i sell you an annuity?) and hope the big bad wolf at the door eventually goes away--

no one wants to enrich lawyers, so if it isn't blatant (ie: they fire you or you quit to go wash cars) chances are 99.99% that they won't bother you-

[quote=TexasRep]

i'm not pre-law, but i have signed a few franchise-type contracts that no pre-law / post-law person in their right mind would ever sign-- basically it was "if you pick your nose in public, we terminate you and take all of the assets" --- totally enforceable? doubtful. Will they allow you to insert an addendum? hilarious.

if you wanted to be in their system, you signed their contract-- to mix metaphors: they hold all the cards and you roll the dice-- if it comes up snake-eyes, run for cover, protect your assets as best you can (can i sell you an annuity?) and hope the big bad wolf at the door eventually goes away--

no one wants to enrich lawyers, so if it isn't blatant (ie: they fire you or you quit to go wash cars) chances are 99.99% that they won't bother you-

[/quote]

Why should somebody conclude that a person who doesn't know that the first letter of a sentence should be capitalized has an opinion worth listening to?

[quote=Big Easy Flood]

[quote=TexasRep]

i'm not pre-law, but i have signed a few franchise-type contracts that no pre-law / post-law person in their right mind would ever sign-- basically it was "if you pick your nose in public, we terminate you and take all of the assets" --- totally enforceable? doubtful. Will they allow you to insert an addendum? hilarious.

if you wanted to be in their system, you signed their contract-- to mix metaphors: they hold all the cards and you roll the dice-- if it comes up snake-eyes, run for cover, protect your assets as best you can (can i sell you an annuity?) and hope the big bad wolf at the door eventually goes away--

no one wants to enrich lawyers, so if it isn't blatant (ie: they fire you or you quit to go wash cars) chances are 99.99% that they won't bother you-

[/quote]

Why should somebody conclude that a person who doesn't know that the first letter of a sentence should be capitalized has an opinion worth listening to?

[/quote]

why would anyone read on after concluding this?

[quote=TexasRep][quote=Big Easy Flood]

[quote=TexasRep]

i'm not pre-law, but i have signed a few franchise-type contracts that no pre-law / post-law person in their right mind would ever sign-- basically it was "if you pick your nose in public, we terminate you and take all of the assets" --- totally enforceable? doubtful. Will they allow you to insert an addendum? hilarious.

if you wanted to be in their system, you signed their contract-- to mix metaphors: they hold all the cards and you roll the dice-- if it comes up snake-eyes, run for cover, protect your assets as best you can (can i sell you an annuity?) and hope the big bad wolf at the door eventually goes away--

no one wants to enrich lawyers, so if it isn't blatant (ie: they fire you or you quit to go wash cars) chances are 99.99% that they won't bother you-

[/quote]

Why should somebody conclude that a person who doesn't know that the first letter of a sentence should be capitalized has an opinion worth listening to?

[/quote]

why would anyone read on after concluding this?

[/quote]

That is non-responsive.  Do you believe that you appear to be articulate and well informed when you, seemingly, do not know the basics of grammar?

When you grow up one of your biggest goals should be to develop the impression of being a grown-up.  Grown-ups do not think it's cool to appear so lazy that you cannot even bother to capitalize when you're writing.

I know, because I'm a grown-up.  You're not.

"I know, because I'm a grown-up.  You're not."

And....... youre a prick........ See???? I began the sentence with a capital.....

[quote=Big Easy Flood][quote=TexasRep][quote=Big Easy Flood]

That is non-responsive. 

[/quote]

actually is isn't-- anyone as informed and grown up as you should certainly understand that it was - by definition- a very direct response.

in fact your old man prattlings afterwords were non-responsive to my "why would anyone read-on after concluding this?"

my take is that you are just trying to help me- thank you, sir.

[quote=Big Easy Flood][quote=TexasRep][quote=Big Easy Flood]

That is non-responsive.  Do you believe that you appear to be articulate and well informed when you, seemingly, do not know the basics of grammar?

[/quote]

the old geezers apparently think i'm a chump-- but i am prepared to handle this indignity the best that i can-

[quote=Big Easy Flood]

When you grow up one of your biggest goals should be to develop the impression of being a grown-up.  Grown-ups do not think it's cool to appear so lazy that you cannot even bother to capitalize when you're writing.

[/quote]

that does it then----  i staRt toDay!
gee- this is harder than it looks.

][quote=Big Easy Flood]

I know, because I'm a grown-up.  You're not.

[/quote]

yeah, we all knew that-- we can smell you from here.

now go trim those hairs coming out of your ears, and get back to work.

Would somebody who thinks that writing without punctuation or capitalization is anything other than an exhibition of ignorance and/or laziness pleae step up and explain why my opinion is wrong.

Am I wrong for thinking like I do, or for saying what I think?

[quote=Big Easy Flood]

Would somebody who thinks that writing without punctuation or capitalization is anything other than an exhibition of ignorance and/or laziness pleae step up and explain why my opinion is wrong.

Am I wrong for thinking like I do, or for saying what I think?

[/quote]

It's a freakin message board, save the grammar nazi bit for your dissertation.  It's a waste of time to be that anal about punctuation/capitalization.

[quote=xmsbroker][quote=Big Easy Flood]

Would somebody who thinks that writing without punctuation or capitalization is anything other than an exhibition of ignorance and/or laziness pleae step up and explain why my opinion is wrong.

Am I wrong for thinking like I do, or for saying what I think?

[/quote]

It's a freakin message board, save the grammar nazi bit for your dissertation.  It's a waste of time to be that anal about punctuation/capitalization.

[/quote]

I think typos, and an occasional misspelling, are very common in message boarding.

However, not capitalizing is a choice, it's not a mistake or a typo.  And the choice is based on laziness, or stupidity.

Neither of them is attractive unless you too are lazy and/or stupid.

[quote=Big Easy Flood][quote=xmsbroker][quote=Big Easy Flood]

Would somebody who thinks that writing without punctuation or capitalization is anything other than an exhibition of ignorance and/or laziness pleae step up and explain why my opinion is wrong.

Am I wrong for thinking like I do, or for saying what I think?

[/quote]

It's a freakin message board, save the grammar nazi bit for your dissertation.  It's a waste of time to be that anal about punctuation/capitalization.

[/quote]

I think typos, and an occasional misspelling, are very common in message boarding.

However, not capitalizing is a choice, it's not a mistake or a typo.  And the choice is based on laziness, or stupidity.

Neither of them is attractive unless you too are lazy and/or stupid.

[/quote]

so now i don't appear attractive to you? what next? you'll quit reading my stuff? and then you'll start reading someone else's stuff? you old geezers are all alike, looking for the trophy caPitAlizer to notch into your keyboards--

tell you what- go find someone else to read or better yet go feed your pigeons or finish your crossword-

unattractive! i've got nose hair more attractive than you! (albiet, not as much)

Being lazy and/or stupid is attractive in somebody like Paris Hilton, but it is unattractive in a potential employee.

When an adult reads something that is written in lower case letters it screams--absolutely screams--that the author is lazy.

We don't conclude that you're stupid, we conclude that you're lazy.

And lazy is not an attractive quality in an employee.

Sorry to be the bearer of harsh realities, but that's the way it is.

[quote=Big Easy Flood]

Being lazy and/or stupid is attractive in somebody like Paris Hilton, but it is unattractive in a potential employee.

When an adult reads something that is written in lower case letters it screams--absolutely screams--that the author is lazy.

We don't conclude that you're stupid, we conclude that you're lazy.

And lazy is not an attractive quality in an employee.

Sorry to be the bearer of harsh realities, but that's the way it is.

[/quote]

the next time i sign up for a message board, i'll read more closely in the fine print where it MUST say:

1. ALL RESPONSES WILL BE CHECKED FOR GRAMMER BY CRUSTY OLD MEN WITH A VIAGRA HANGOVER AND NO WHERE TO GO WITH IT.

2. CONSIDER YOUR RESPONSES, APPLICATIONS FOR EMPLOYMENT BY OLD GEEZERS WITH A 3 DAY OLD WIFEBEATER THAT NEEDS CHANGING.  

i definitly missed that part when i signed up for this one--

[quote=TexasRep][quote=Big Easy Flood]

Being lazy and/or stupid is attractive in somebody like Paris Hilton, but it is unattractive in a potential employee.

When an adult reads something that is written in lower case letters it screams--absolutely screams--that the author is lazy.

We don't conclude that you're stupid, we conclude that you're lazy.

And lazy is not an attractive quality in an employee.

Sorry to be the bearer of harsh realities, but that's the way it is.

[/quote]

the next time i sign up for a message board, i'll read more closely in the fine print where it MUST say:

1. ALL RESPONSES WILL BE CHECKED FOR GRAMMER BY CRUSTY OLD MEN WITH A VIAGRA HANGOVER AND NO WHERE TO GO WITH IT.

2. CONSIDER YOUR RESPONSES, APPLICATIONS FOR EMPLOYMENT BY OLD GEEZERS WITH A 3 DAY OLD WIFEBEATER THAT NEEDS CHANGING.  

i definitly missed that part when i signed up for this one-

[/quote]

Can you verbalize why you think it's clever to type in lower case?

Have you ever heard the selling idea that if what you're doing fails to impress even a single person you should not be doing it?

Do you suppose that you're unemployed because you're too lazy to do things right?

Can you verbalize why you think it's clever to type in lower case?

i'm sorry, where did i say that i thought it was?

Have you ever heard the selling idea that if what you're doing fails to impress even a single person you should not be doing it?

i used to try to impress single people all the time, but alas, as i have aged i must now merely be content to piss off old ones-

Do you suppose that you're unemployed because you're too lazy to do things right?

you've said that people who get nasty with you never disagree with you, they just don't like to hear your truth-- in this case i can honestly call you an A-Hole, not b/c of your truth, but b/c i disagree with you-

thank-you for that opportunity.

[quote=Big Easy Flood]

Being lazy and/or stupid is attractive in somebody like Paris Hilton, but it is unattractive in a potential employee.

When an adult reads something that is written in lower case letters it screams--absolutely screams--that the author is lazy.

We don't conclude that you're stupid, we conclude that you're lazy.

And lazy is not an attractive quality in an employee.

Sorry to be the bearer of harsh realities, but that's the way it is.

[/quote]

Who on here is an employee of another poster or seeking employment from another poster?

To respond to two at once.

1.  Stupidity and sloth cannot be turned on and off, somebody who is exhibiting stupidity and sloth on an Internet forum exhibits it in real life too.

2.  The soul who is so proud of her stupidty and sloth is the same soul who went to college for eight years, yet did not obtain a degree.

Not that being stupid and lazy could result in something like that.

ahem, Mr. Flood? I’m raising my hand with a question here.

2.  The soul who is so proud of her stupidty and sloth is the same soul who went to college for eight years, yet did not obtain a degree.

which "soul" is a "her"?

[quote=Devoted SA]ahem, Mr. Flood? I’m raising my hand with a question here.

2.  The soul who is so proud of her stupidty and sloth is the same soul who went to college for eight years, yet did not obtain a degree.

which "soul" is a "her"?

[/quote]

Did the maven who talked about spending eight years in a failed effort to obtain a degree not indicate earlier that the maven was a she?

Regardless--note that I know there is no such word as irregardless--people cannot turn stupidity and sloth on and off.

Somebody who is lazy in what they do anywhere is lazy in what they do everywhere.

Do you disagree?  Do you think that good habits become bad habits, and vice versa, based on when and where the habit is being used?

Do you think think that somebody who cannot spell on Monday can on Tuesday, but cannot again on Wednesday?

Jesus! Back off big easy flood. I'm trying to read about these non-compete agreements and training repayments, and instead I am forces to sift through your $hit. Have some respect for every other member of this board, even if you have none for TexasRep.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Also, have you ever visited another message board in your lifetime? It would not surprise me if half of the posters did not use correct grammar. Usually it will be simple things like capitalization and apostrophes, in order to speed up the posting process on a board that has no relevance on their career, in order to get back to their work. Not exactly the trait of a lazy person, huh? These grammatical 'errors' are intentional. Any idiot can determine what the correct grammar in each case would be, being the reason why these specific ‘errors’ are not corrected.

Spelling on the other hand can point towards illiteracy and ignorance. By the way, you misspelled please (instead using pleae) in your post about the ignorant, lazy people who don’t use proper grammar. Does anyone else find that funny?

Also, what is 'stupidty?'

[quote=Devoted SA]ahem, Mr. Flood? I'm raising my hand with a question here.

2.  The soul who is so proud of her stupidty and sloth is the same soul who went to college for eight years, yet did not obtain a degree.

which "soul" is a "her"?

I am to assume this means you cannot spell, be it Monday or any other day of the week?

[quote=Big Easy Flood][quote=Devoted SA]ahem, Mr. Flood? I'm raising my hand with a question here.

2.  The soul who is so proud of her stupidty and sloth is the same soul who went to college for eight years, yet did not obtain a degree.

which "soul" is a "her"?

[/quote]

Did the maven who talked about spending eight years in a failed effort to obtain a degree not indicate earlier that the maven was a she?

Regardless--note that I know there is no such word as irregardless--people cannot turn stupidity and sloth on and off.

Somebody who is lazy in what they do anywhere is lazy in what they do everywhere.

Do you disagree?  Do you think that good habits become bad habits, and vice versa, based on when and where the habit is being used?

Do you think think that somebody who cannot spell on Monday can on Tuesday, but cannot again on Wednesday?

Big Easy Flood
Senior Member

To respond to two at once.
1.  Stupidity and sloth cannot be turned on and off, somebody who is exhibiting stupidity and sloth on an Internet forum exhibits it in real life too.

as you are living proof-

2.  The soul who is so proud of her stupidty and sloth is the same soul who went to college for eight years, yet did not obtain a degree.

tho there is "texas" in both screen names there are obviously 2 different people you've confused- how you words echo so true (see above) in your own words: "...somebody who is exhibiting stupidity and sloth on an Internet forum exhibits it in real life too."--

you can almost get away with being a smug A-hole when you're right, but you come off looking like a complete idiot when your not--

Not that being stupid and lazy could result in something like that.

you are obviously thinking about "lostintexas" not me, "TexasRep"- you really need to stop being so lazy and stupid and simply do the due diligence b/f you embarrass yourself any further.....

I bet the use of ‘tho’ in your last post will really get him fired up TexasRep. HAHA! What an idiot.

Good for Tex if she is a woman...I rather like being one. Not that I had a choice, I'm just saying.

Flood, I think you've got to calm down. Grammar or no, your assults also show certain character flaws employers strive to avoid in hiring, would you agree?

Holy crap.  I am glad I don't get caught up in these boards like I used to (way too busy these days).

Anyway...

WM, I can tell you that I did sign that exact agreement that ML MAY pursue reimbursement if there was a separation (sp?) of service FOR ANY REASON (fired, terminated, etc). 

I left in good standing and on good terms w/ML prior to my 2 years (recruited by a bank), did not solicit my ML clients, went to work for a bank as an FA, and their was NO issue of repayment. 

I'm sure like anything else it's a case by case and complex by complex issue...but I can tell you this.  If you are an ass, if you run your mouth about ML, if you try to take clients and go across the street to UBS, then I'd say yes they will probably go after you.

If you go about things on the up and up, want out or quit and go into something other than retail investment sales at a wirehouse (I'm at a bank now) I'd say your chances are slim that you'll have to deal with the repayment.

Anyway, why would anyone (not saying you do) want to go to UBS/MS/AGE/etc from ML with only 15MM under management?

ML, in my opinion is a very solid and very fair company to work for.  They expect a lot, but it is what it is.  I didn't leave because I was unhappy.  I still have friends there.  It's just a hell of a lot easier to build a financial services business when people are REQUIRED to help you.  That's why I am at a bank.

BEF,

What exactly do you contribute to this forum? What is your motivation for logging on every day.....

[quote=blarmston]

BEF,

What exactly do you contribute to this forum? What is your motivation for logging on every day.....

[/quote]

What difference does it make?  Have you found something I have said that you disagree with?

If so, state the disagreement.

I'll give you an easy one.  I believe that people who dont' capitlize the first word of a sentence are lazy.  If it's not sloth, then it would have to be either stupid or intentional.

Do people who intentionally portray themselves in such a fashion that another would consider them stupid actually be stupid?  In other words is it stupid to intentionally appear stupid?

Get a life, Put Trader.

[quote=BankFC]

WM, I can tell you that I did sign that exact agreement that ML MAY pursue reimbursement if there was a separation (sp?) of service FOR ANY REASON (fired, terminated, etc). 

I left in good standing and on good terms w/ML prior to my 2 years (recruited by a bank), did not solicit my ML clients, went to work for a bank as an FA, and their was NO issue of repayment. 

[/quote]

Thank you very much for sharing your experience.  It was helpful.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

I no longer have any worries about the agreement.  I've signed it and will make sure that I make the most of this opportunity that Merrill Lynch has provided me.  With each passing day I become happier that I have decided to accept their offer.  I am excited for my first day in the office.

I wish I could kill this thread!

WM

[quote=Big Easy Flood]

Do people who intentionally portray themselves in such a fashion that another would consider them stupid actually be stupid?  In other words is it stupid to intentionally appear stupid?

[/quote]

you continue to prove your point with every asnine post you make---- you'd think an old vet like you would know when to quit digging.....

[quote=TexasRep]

[quote=Big Easy Flood]

Do people who intentionally portray themselves in such a fashion that another would consider them stupid actually be stupid?  In other words is it stupid to intentionally appear stupid?

[/quote]

OK, accidental stupidity at 6:15.  That is not the same as intentionally looking stupid.

My point is that when a person goes out of their way to appear ridiculous it is difficult to take them serious.

In order to disagree with me you have to be willing to say that there is no damage done by intentionally doing things like typing entire messages in lower case, not putting periods at the end of sentences and so forth.

Is there an adult reason, a mature reason, to do that?  How much extra effort does it take to touch the shift key as you begin a sentence and the period key as you end one?

If you wouldn't do it yourself why are you more than eager to excuse others who do?

you continue to prove your point with every asnine post you make---- you'd think an old vet like you would know when to quit digging.....

BEF????

is this guy for real? (purposefully non-capitalized)

message boards are not formal documents......but a means for rapid and efficient exchange of information.   the abbreviations and punctuation that is common throughout computer based communications is derived from computer programming languages and etiquitte.  whereas crusty old peacocks like yourself (BEF) enjoy to go around and flash their 'vocabulary' and get hung up on what ultimately is a self mastabatory ego trip.  meanwhile REAL people who actually have a brain cell or two to rub together have long ago realized that function precedes form.  the only thing constant is change BEF and obviously your having a hard time getting it.  Too bad for you.

it would be nice of you though to avoid hijacking other peoples posts who really don't give a sh*t about what you think of their message board etiquitte.

Someone get a shotgun this peacock is sh*tting all over the place.

*******BANG!************* 

[quote=dude]

message boards are not formal documents......but a means for rapid and efficient exchange of information.   the abbreviations and punctuation that is common throughout computer based communications is derived from computer programming languages and etiquitte. 

[/quote]

I realize that a message board is not a formal document, but capitalizing the first word of a sentence is not formal writing.

Neither is placing a period at the end of a sentence.

It is non

It is nonsense to claim that the ridiculous use of all lower case and not punctuation is an outgrowth from programming.

What it is is an example of being lazy.  It does not take any extra effort, or time, to touch the shift key at the beginning of a sentence, or to end the sentence with a form of punctuation.

As I said, in order to disagree with me you must be of the opinion that intentionally appearing lazy, or perhaps stupid, is something worthwhile.

The people who are reading this forum are seeking to become informed about an adult business.

I am choosing to tell them that there is no upside to intentionally appearing to be lazy.

If a reader disagrees, if you think there is an upside to intentionally appearing to be lazy, please express your disagreement and let's talk about it.

[quote=Big Easy Flood]If a reader disagrees, if you think there is an upside to intentionally appearing to be lazy, please express your disagreement and let's talk about it.[/quote]

E.E. Cummings thought there was an upside.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._E._Cummings

[quote=TexasRep]you'd think an old vet like you would know when to quit digging.....[/quote]

You've assumed to much about the man.  He is no doubt old, but he is far from a vet.  He spent his years in managment. 

[quote=lawsucks]

[quote=Big Easy Flood]If a reader disagrees, if you think there is an upside to intentionally appearing to be lazy, please express your disagreement and let's talk about it.[/quote]

E.E. Cummings thought there was an upside.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._E._Cummings

[/quote]

There is no indication that Cummings knew any better, and he himself did not like to see his own name in lower case letters.

The man may well have been an illiterate who became "famous" because some sponsors of the arts decided to make the inarticulate fool famous.

In any case, no rule is proven by the exception.  Once or twice every century there is rain in Timbuktu--that does not mean Timbuktu is not arid.

I ask again.  If writing in lower case makes one appear to be lazy, or stupid, what is the upside of doing it?

<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 

BEF make just be proving again that old saw about a broken clock being right twice a day.

It’s just my opinion and you can consider it worthless if you like, but I have to agree with him to the extend that writing without caps and the use common misspellings like “your” when “you’re” is correct, mark the writer in a light he probably would rather avoid. I wouldn’t turn into a grammar Nazi over it, but it doesn’t go unnoticed, either.

[quote=mikebutler222]<O:P></O:P>

It’s just my opinion and you can consider it worthless if you like, but I have to agree with him to the extend that writing without caps and the use common misspellings like “your” when “you’re” is correct, mark the writer in a light he probably would rather avoid. I wouldn’t turn into a grammar Nazi over it, but it doesn’t go unnoticed, either.

[/quote]

There are some things that I believe occur because the writer is actually thinking too deeply.  For example using an apostrophe to turn the word it into a possessive--"The team boarded it's bus and...." is wrong, but to somebody who is thinking it is second nature to insert an apostrophe into all possessive situations.

I also think the your and you're deal is often an accident--a classic typo rather than a sign of ignorance regarding the words.

But intentionally typing in lower case exhibts laziness, unless the person is prepared to admit that they didn't know better in which case it reveals world class stupidity.

It is also nonsensical to argue that one who exhibits bad habits in one situation does not exhibit bad habits in all situations.

Plus, even if they did, what's the upside of exhibiting bad habits in any situation?

It is also nonsensical to argue that one who exhibits bad habits in one situation does not exhibit bad habits in all situations.

aw..and i secretly thought you may not be a jerk 100% of the time-

BEF-- outside of the obvious (you've gone WAY off the deep end on this one) the way i communicate in forums like this one (where there is apparently no way to keep 100% of 'em happy) is easily explainable and correctable in "real life"-

i hate to type and only do so in client communications when i absolutely have to, and thru the technology of "spell-check" all of my communications go out grammatically flawless, so you can quit worrying about how i conduct myself outside of this forum and move on to something really important---aren't your pigeons getting hungry?

[quote=TexasRep]

It is also nonsensical to argue that one who exhibits bad habits in one situation does not exhibit bad habits in all situations.

aw..and i secretly thought you may not be a jerk 100% of the time-

BEF-- outside of the obvious (you've gone WAY off the deep end on this one) the way i communicate in forums like this one (where there is apparently no way to keep 100% of 'em happy) is easily explainable and correctable in "real life"-

i hate to type and only do so in client communications when i absolutely have to, and thru the technology of "spell-check" all of my communications go out grammatically flawless, so you can quit worrying about how i conduct myself outside of this forum and move on to something really important---aren't your pigeons getting hungry?

[/quote]

What you're saying is you're too lazy to bother to try to do it right, so I'll ask, what is the upside of intentionally appearing lazy?

Where is the pride in doing something wrong on purpose?

[quote=Big Easy Flood][quote=mikebutler222]<O:P></O:P>

It’s just my opinion and you can consider it worthless if you like, but I have to agree with him to the extend that writing without caps and the use common misspellings like “your” when “you’re” is correct, mark the writer in a light he probably would rather avoid. I wouldn’t turn into a grammar Nazi over it, but it doesn’t go unnoticed, either.

[/quote]

But intentionally typing in lower case exhibts laziness, unless the person is prepared to admit that they didn't know better in which case it reveals world class stupidity.

It is also nonsensical to argue that one who exhibits bad habits in one situation does not exhibit bad habits in all situations.

Plus, even if they did, what's the upside of exhibiting bad habits in any situation?

[/quote]

the last time two guys like this agreed on something it was Hitler and Japan's Hirohito in the 40's

it's friday, y'all really need to lighten-up-

Where is the pride in intentionally doing something incorrectly?

What you're saying is you're too lazy to bother to try to do it right, so I'll ask, what is the upside of intentionally appearing lazy?

Where is the pride in doing something wrong on purpose?

honestly, if i thought it really mattered to the majority to the point that it reflected badly on me, i may be more concerned-

but the fact that it really only pisses you off is motivation enough to not worry about it-

I am not pissed off about anything, why in the world would I care?

But have you examined yourself.

You strut stupidity like a peacock, and then brag about intentionally attempting to piss somebody off.

Which of those is a sign of self respect?

[quote=Big Easy Flood]

I am not pissed off about anything, why in the world would I care?

But have you examined yourself.

You strut stupidity like a peacock, and then brag about intentionally attempting to piss somebody off.

Which of those is a sign of self respect?

[/quote]

why you would care is the continuing mystery-

but, your logic is flawed (again) - i say nothing about intentionally attempting to piss you off -- i was not capitalizing long before you commented-

as for strutting stupidly like a peacock? ok.

[quote=TexasRep]

as for strutting stupidly like a peacock? ok.

[/quote]

Where is the self respect?  This is an industry that demands an abundance of it in order to succeed, yet you seem to take pride in having none at all.

It’s a Texas thing, I’m guilty of it too…

[quote=no idea]It's a Texas thing, I'm guilty of it too...[/quote]

I grew up in the DFW Metroplex, I'm a Texan too.

Being proud of being lazy is not a Texas deal.

I was just joking. Please let this sentence serve as a blanket apology to all offended parties.

Where is the self respect?  This is an industry that demands an abundance of it in order to succeed, yet you seem to take pride in having none at all.

the fact that you (virtually alone) seem to equate not capitalizing to strutting like a peacock, being lazy and having no self respect points to some troubling signals in your cognitive abilities (especially for a day-trader).

1. self respect is not earned or obvious by how one capitalizes or does not- nor is it displayed by kowtowing to crazy idiots (see France WWII)--

2. if not capitalizing to you is like some one strutting like a peacock- i can let you have that- it does not worry me nor effect my self respect an iota- now if you're thinking i should at least do it to earn your respect... well, i see no gain in that whatsoever--- that sort of respect (from me) must be earned (by you) and frankly your exhibition over general pettiness allows me to believe that you are no more worthy of it than any other boor i've met-

3. a Texas thing? a true texan would not be quibbling over such unimportance, nor would they need to question another true texans self-respect, knowing that that is never an issue in Texas!

Whatever.

The fact is that typing in lower case is considered incorrect.  If you were doing it because you did not know it would be sad, but excusable.

But you do know.  What you're doing is akin to refusing to stand during the national anthem, or talking with your mouth full, or picking your nose at a dinner table........the list is long.

All I am doing is asking where is the well spring of self loathing that causes you to strut around saying, "I know it's incorrect, but I don't care and have no intention of bothering to do what is correct."

How could you hate yourself so much that you have absolutely zero pride in what you present for others to see?

Why would you not want to make something as perfect as possible, instead of taking pride in the sloppiness?

[quote=Big Easy Flood]

Whatever.

The fact is that typing in lower case is considered incorrect.  If you were doing it because you did not know it would be sad, but excusable.

But you do know.  What you're doing is akin to refusing to stand during the national anthem, or talking with your mouth full, or picking your nose at a dinner table........the list is long.

All I am doing is asking where is the well spring of self loathing that causes you to strut around saying, "I know it's incorrect, but I don't care and have no intention of bothering to do what is correct."

How could you hate yourself so much that you have absolutely zero pride in what you present for others to see?

Why would you not want to make something as perfect as possible, instead of taking pride in the sloppiness?

[/quote]

yawn................

BEF said (in another thread):

I also have time.  As I indicated somewhere I maintain a trading account with Fidelity and am sitting in front of a computer much of the time.  I try to remind myself that a watched pot never boils but I cannot help myself.

So I have Fidelity Pro Trader up and I also have the Internet up.  When the market begins to bore me, which it normally does most of the time, I goof around with the Internet, buy and sell stuff on e-Bay and play around with message boards.

About a dozen weeks a year I travel with my best friend, my wife of nearly thirty six years.

It's a tough lifestyle,but somebody has to do it.

Reply:

Look....I am by no means a slouch when it comes to my own grammar.  Never the less.....I think you miss the point that these types of communication (email, Instant Messenger, chat boards etc...) are all designed around maximum efficiency of communication and that the content is what is emphasized here, not the 'packaging'.  You obviously have time to edit your posts and others...most people here are anonymous (and busy unlike you) and therefore there is no 'real' image to protect anyway.  Your opinion really doesn't matter to any of us concerning your thoughts on our image.  I'm sure that when drafting business letters most everybody here does edit their work.

Look here's an analogy: When you have to split wood do you wear your best suit and tie?   No, you dress in appropriately 'dingy' but functional clothing.  You see, you are saying "Damn man, get yourself a suit and look respectable" and we're saying "Sh*t man, I'm splitting some friggin wood and drinkin' a beer here...chill out"

Here the only image is associated with an anonymous identitly......those who make a mountain out of a molehill are just spinning their wheels and wasting their own time. 

Here the only image is associated with an anonymous identitly......those who make a mountain out of a molehill are just spinning their wheels and wasting their own time......which you obviously have an abundance of.

You also state that we should be listening to what you have to say because of your experience.  Well most of the posts I have read from you have been nothing but ego inflating and nit picky....whether you want to face it or not, you sound like an old, grumpy, bored man; not like someone who has pearls of wisdom to share.

I'm sure you have something of value to share, I'm just waiting to see it.  To you, many here may appear 'lazy', well to most here you appear like a complete unedited c*cksucker who is soo bored that you change your 'identity' and throw out rabbit terds instead of pearls.  Not something I want to pick up off the ground.

I understand that this is a casual environment, and typos and misspelllings occur accidently.

However, the refusal to capitalize and punctuate is intentional.

My point is what character flaw exists when somebody intentionally portrays themself as being either lazy or stupid?

Can you imagine yourself setting out to appear to be stupid?

If not, why are you willing to excuse it in others?

Appearances are in the eyes of the beholder.  Unlike you BEF I don't have that limitation (prejudice based on socially manufactured ideas of what 'laziness' or 'stupidity' is).  I am able to see the book for it's content not it's cover.  Some of the smartest most ambitious people I have met have lousy grammatical skills (some doctor's come to mind )..... I hope you're not that narrow BEF that you would suggest that all people who are relaxed about their punctuation are lazy and stupid.  Sh*t, sitting in front of a computer all day looking at the stock market and posting on chat boards (like you do) sounds waaaaaayyy more lazy and stupid than minor grammatical errors to me.  Shouldn't you be playing shuffle board or something?

**You see it's all in the eye of the beholder**

It doesn't appear lazy to me......it looks like a functional choice for those who may not care too much about how others percieve their 'imaginary' identity here.  If I really cared about what people thought of me here..why would I name myself 'Dude'?  Certainly not a term that connotes a professional who handles money for others.

I just don't view the world through the same lens BEF, and I suspect that most other's on this board don't as well.

[quote=dude]

I just don't view the world through the same lens BEF, and I suspect that most other's on this board don't as well.

[/quote]

My question is simple.  Do you think that there is an upside to announcing that you do not try to not appear to be lazy or stupid.

Mistakes are one thing, but intentionally portraying yourself as a lazy fool is something completely different.

Where am I wrong?  What am I missing?  Why should I want to make myself look stupid and lazy?

Teach me what I'm missing by thinking that we should always try to be the best we can.

Teach me what I'm missing by thinking that we should always try to be the best we can.

good god- if we've seen the best you've got, i really feel for your wife.

you know, now there is someone with self-loathing issues, any self-respect she may have had, i'm sure you've sucked out of her long ago-- poor woman.

in fact- since it's fathers day weekend, why don't you let her out of the basement for a little while this weekend...you know, like in the olden days? let her bring her pet rat...errr.. never mind she'd have you.

BEF this is soooooo simple that I'm suprised that you're having a hard time getting it.

I try to focus on the things that TRULY matter and here on an anonymous chat board.....identity and packaging are not a part of that.  Exchange of information and debating issues relevant to my field of expertise is what is important.

You make too many assumptions which makes it impossible to have a balanced conversation with you. Example:

Mistakes are one thing, but intentionally portraying yourself as a lazy fool is something completely different.

Reply:

You are assuming that people are intentionally being 'lazy'.  Here's a thought for you....what if they (like me) don't see it as being lazy? 

You see in order for me to reply to your question, I must assume the same postition as you do (that improper punctuation and grammar is lazy) and from my perspective I'd rather not bend over and get it in the a*s like you.  Again I must reiterate that I do not see it as being lazy therefore we have no common grounds to discuss this issue as long as you insist I answer questions from your paradigm.

BEF said:

Teach me what I'm missing by thinking that we should always try to be the best we can.

Reply:

I think it's all about choosing your battles wisely.  Are you the best you can be at ALL things BEF?  I expect that you like most mere mortals make decisions every day about where they want to invest their limited energy and I'm sure that you like them have areas that you allow to be 'less than your best'.  Do you always put the toilet seat down and make sure that you never get any on the seat?  Do you make sure that all your dirt is swept and raked to perfection?  If I randomly visit your home will there be cookies and milk graciously awaiting to make me feel welcome?  Give me a break.

This is why I think you are petty BEF.

[quote=TexasRep]

Teach me what I'm missing by thinking that we should always try to be the best we can.

good god- if we've seen the best you've got, i really feel for your wife.

you know, now there is someone with self-loathing issues, any self-respect she may have had, i'm sure you've sucked out of her long ago-- poor woman.

in fact- since it's fathers day weekend, why don't you let her out of the basement for a little while this weekend...you know, like in the olden days? let her bring her pet rat...errr.. never mind she'd have you.

[/quote]

You see in order for me to reply to your question, I must assume the same postition as you do (that improper punctuation and grammar is lazy)

That is not my point of view at all.  I believe that intentionally using improper punctuation and grammar is lazy.

If you know better, yet do it anyway, what does that say about you?

How much effort do you suppose it takes to capitalize the first word of a sentence?

Do you suppose somebody who chooses to write in all lower case doesn't know better?

Or do you suppose they're doing it to be clever and "cool?"

Or do you suppose that they're doing it because they are simply too lazy to touch the shift key while they type?

Which of those reasons is acceptable in an adult's life?

You are one uptight, bored and lonely old man BEF.  I have better sh*t to do than debate ABSOLUTLEY MEANINGLESS issues with you.

If consensus is of any value (which is what determines matters of etiquitte) around here I think you are the one who looks stupid and lazy here.  Like I said you should be out playing shuffle board or something instead of playing on the computer all day enticing busy professionals into wasteful exchanges.  Have a good day being irritated that other people are different from you.

[quote=dude]

You are one uptight, bored and lonely old man BEF.  I have better sh*t to do than debate ABSOLUTLEY MEANINGLESS issues with you.

If consensus is of any value (which is what determines matters of etiquitte) around here I think you are the one who looks stupid and lazy here.  Like I said you should be out playing shuffle board or something instead of playing on the computer all day enticing busy professionals into wasteful exchanges.  Have a good day being irritated that other people are different from you.

[/quote]

Poor Dude.  He cannot respond to my question so he's going to move on.  Loser.

As for wasting my day.  Nope not at all, it was the third Friday of the month.

A month ago I sold ten Google combinations--Short the June 440 Put and the June 380 call for a total of $78,000.  Today Google closed at 390 and change.

I will have to buy 1,000 shares over the weekend for $440,000 and sell them for only $380,000 realizing a $60,000 short term loss.

But I have a $78,000 gain to offset it.  $18,000 per month is not all bad, even for an old fart with nothing else to do between trips to exotic destinations.

On Monday I'll sell a similar position for July for what looks like $77,000--not as attractive as it was a month ago, but not all bad.

Anyway I'll put those two legs down on Monday morning and then play message boards for a month while I wait for the time premium to come out of the options.

Ok Put Trader, I believe you.............just be careful not to get any on your screen when your done with your self mastabatory ego trip.

Put Trader said:

Anyway I'll put those two legs down on Monday morning and then play message boards for a month while I wait for the time premium to come out of the options.

Reply:

You just made the case for why we shouldn't listen to you.  Your just playin'........mostly with yourself.

[quote=dude]

Ok Put Trader, I believe you.............just be careful not to get any on your screen when your done with your self mastabatory ego trip.

Put Trader said:

Anyway I'll put those two legs down on Monday morning and then play message boards for a month while I wait for the time premium to come out of the options.

Reply:

You just made the case for why we shouldn't listen to you.  Your just playin'........mostly with yourself.

[/quote]

Why don't you do it too Dude, it's like shooting fish in a barrel.

Well, not quite.  Dullards like you would not know what to do if the stock started to move beyond the break even points.

You gotta know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em.

I am you're hero, I own you little Dude.

I am you're hero, I own you little Dude

YOUR, not You're.  I said that that is a common problem because I do it all the time.

But if I was lazy like Dude I'd just ignore it--or even better I'd tell everybody that I know it's wrong and intented to make the mistake because being stupid is cool.

You're a fraud Put Trader.

YOUR, not You're.  I said that that is a common problem because I do it all the time.

You stutter Put Trader?  'Cause if you don't it looks really stupid to type a word twice, especially when correcting yourself.

Well, not quite.

Is this a proper sentence PutTrader?  Think hard.

I am you're hero, I own you little Dude.

Actually my name has no capitals, it is merely dude.  Please refer to me by my proper title.  I'm assuming you can read.

You are my hero PutTrader, right up there with the likes of Napoleon Dynamite and Pee Wee Herman.  Both humorously irrelevant, but they make me laugh anyway.  I admire those who can keep me laughing as long as you have PutTrader.  Keep it up.

[quote=dude]

I said that that is a common problem because I do it all the time.

You stutter Put Trader?  'Cause if you don't it looks really stupid to type a word twice, especially when correcting yourself.

Well, not quite.

Is this a proper sentence PutTrader?  Think hard.

[/quote]

Poor little dude, trying so hard.

The sentence is saying exactly what I was saying.  The second that is referring to the improper use of "Your" instead of "You're."

It is rarely a good idea to conclude that I made a mistake.  It does happen, but with the frequency of a lunar eclipse.

I could have typed that in all lower case, but it would have made me look stupid.

[quote=Big Easy Flood][quote=dude]

It is rarely a good idea to conclude that I made a mistake.  It does happen, but with the frequency of a lunar eclipse.

I could have typed that in all lower case, but it would have made me look stupid.

[/quote]

and we all know you'd rather look like a anal, nit-pickie, bloviating, boor than a stupid/lazy non-capitalizer.....

[quote=dude]

Put Trader said:

Anyway I'll put those two legs down on Monday morning and then play message boards for a month while I wait for the time premium to come out of the options.

Reply:

You just made the case for why we shouldn't listen to you.  Your just playin'........mostly with yourself.

[/quote]

dude-

insomuch as we indure the BS all month for anything tangible from this guy-- you probably shouldn't discourage advise/trading knowledge from boors like this when it does happen (once a lunar eclipse perhaps) --

we are here to share REAL advise/knowledge, and we all have to put up with 80% BS to get anything of real value-- (we probably put up w/ 95% BS w/ this jerk) -- when value does come, at least it allows you to relax the anger a bit and take it for what it's worth-

if this guy is the infamous Put Trader (before my time) it may be wise to listen to his Put Trading advise- it may well be all he is worth to many readers of this forum-

[quote=TexasRep]

dude-

insomuch as we indure the BS all month for anything tangible from this guy-- you probably shouldn't discourage advise/trading knowledge from boors like this when it does happen (once a lunar eclipse perhaps) --

we are here to share REAL advise/knowledge, and we all have to put up with 80% BS to get anything of real value-- (we probably put up w/ 95% BS w/ this jerk) -- when value does come, at least it allows you to relax the anger a bit and take it for what it's worth-

if this guy is the infamous Put Trader (before my time) it may be wise to listen to his Put Trading advise- it may well be all he is worth to many readers of this forum-

[/quote]

I know, I know, you know that the word is endure but you like to spell it that way.

And you know that Advise is the verb and Advice is the noun, but this is just a casual format and spell checker would have caught it anyway.  Or would it, after all if you spell the wrong word correctly does spell checker catch that?

Says all that needs to be said about old lazy men who sit around and "play message boards" all day.  Like sitting around playing video games all day......what a joke.  This is one immature geezer.

[quote=Big Easy Flood]

[quote=TexasRep]

dude-

insomuch as we indure the BS all month for anything tangible from this guy-- you probably shouldn't discourage advise/trading knowledge from boors like this when it does happen (once a lunar eclipse perhaps) --

we are here to share REAL advise/knowledge, and we all have to put up with 80% BS to get anything of real value-- (we probably put up w/ 95% BS w/ this jerk) -- when value does come, at least it allows you to relax the anger a bit and take it for what it's worth-

if this guy is the infamous Put Trader (before my time) it may be wise to listen to his Put Trading advise- it may well be all he is worth to many readers of this forum-

[/quote]

I know, I know, you know that the word is endure but you like to spell it that way.

And you know that Advise is the verb and Advice is the noun, but this is just a casual format and spell checker would have caught it anyway.  Or would it, after all if you spell the wrong word correctly does spell checker catch that?

[/quote]

FF>>

(like a very bad movie, with BEF you've got to fast forward thru the bad parts to get to anything good......

like a LONG, very bad movie....)

PLEASE stop ruining this message board!!!

I wish I could kill this thread as well as many of the people who are responding with very off topic posts.   What is it about you guys that makes you want to fight with people you don't and will never know?  I feel that there will be no winner in this war so please stop.  I wish this was moderated and those who replied with off-topic posts were dealt with.

STOP IT!!!  GROW UP!!!  and most of all SHUT UP!!!

WM

So…since we’re getting off topic…

Who do you think is going to win the Open tomorrow?

[quote=Big Easy Flood][quote=dude]

I just don't view the world through the same lens BEF, and I suspect that most other's on this board don't as well.

[/quote]

My question is simple.  Do you think that there is an upside to announcing that you do not try to not appear to be lazy or stupid.

Mistakes are one thing, but intentionally portraying yourself as a lazy fool is something completely different.

Where am I wrong?  What am I missing?  Why should I want to make myself look stupid and lazy?

Teach me what I'm missing by thinking that we should always try to be the best we can.

[quote=Big Easy Flood]

[quote=TexasRep]

as for strutting stupidly like a peacock? ok.

[/quote]

Where is the self respect?  This is an industry that demands an abundance of it in order to succeed, yet you seem to take pride in having none at all.

[quote=TexasRep]

[quote=Big Easy Flood]

Do people who intentionally portray themselves in such a fashion that another would consider them stupid actually be stupid?  In other words is it stupid to intentionally appear stupid?

[/quote]

you continue to prove your point with every asnine post you make---- you'd think an old vet like you would know when to quit digging.....

[quote=joedabrkr]So...since we're getting off topic...

Who do you think is going to win the Open tomorrow?
[/quote]

i like lefty-- and knew mrs. doubtfire was going to choke eventually, but i was hoping for a major sunday meltdown-

watch out for furyk, weir--

when lefty wins his 3rd major in a row, know that the tiger will be poised to knock phil off his pedestal next time out-

[quote=joedabrkr]

What about intentionally portraying yourself as an arrogant annoying old fool?

Old?  I'm younger than Paul McCartney and Mick Jagger.

Oh that's right, it's not portraying, you really are that way, aren't you?

Those icon things are childish.  People who  use them are unsure of what they're saying so they insert one--like a bad sit com  uses a laugh track in case you didn't realize that what is happening is funny.

Sitting around all day watching your Fidelity ProTrader account?  So you've sucked enough from the corporate tit that you're actually retired?  As opposed to going to the office every day and doing nothing useful there?

Tell us, Joe, how do you suppose a broker dealer would continue to exist without people to oversee what is going on?

Do you realize that if you were not a predestined failure, on your last gig out the door, you would have a better attitude about yourself and everybody else in the industry.

Not to worry, the "skills" you have will transfer well to your next career.  Practice saying, "Sir, may I recommend a new tie to go with that suit?"

Tell me Joe, which would you rather be doing?  Prospecting for a new account or drawing a pension equal to 60% of the highest three of your last five W-2s, while travelling with your wife and trading a Fidelity account when the mood strikes?

What will you be doing when you turn sixty?

[/quote]

He'll probably still be doing helpful, interesting, constuctive work, and enjoying the fulfillment that it brings. One thing he probably won't be is a doddering old fool trying to convince himself and others the he used to matter.

You know what they say..."There's no fool like an old fool".

[quote=Starka]

He’ll probably still be doing helpful, interesting, constuctive work, and enjoying the fulfillment that it brings. One thing he probably won’t be is a doddering old fool trying to convince himself and others the he used to matter.

You know what they say..."There's no fool like an old fool".

[quote=Big Easy Flood]

[quote=joedabrkr]

What about intentionally portraying yourself as an arrogant annoying old fool?

Old?  I'm younger than Paul McCartney and Mick Jagger.

Oh gee then that really makes you young! (no icon so as to please you Oh Put Trader)

Oh that's right, it's not portraying, you really are that way, aren't you?

Those icon things are childish.  People who  use them are unsure of what they're saying so they insert one--like a bad sit com  uses a laugh track in case you didn't realize that what is happening is funny.

Sitting around all day watching your Fidelity ProTrader account?  So you've sucked enough from the corporate tit that you're actually retired?  As opposed to going to the office every day and doing nothing useful there?

Tell us, Joe, how do you suppose a broker dealer would continue to exist without people to oversee what is going on?

Do you realize that if you were not a predestined failure, on your last gig out the door, you would have a better attitude about yourself and everybody else in the industry.

Not to worry, the "skills" you have will transfer well to your next career.  Practice saying, "Sir, may I recommend a new tie to go with that suit?"

Tell me Joe, which would you rather be doing?  Prospecting for a new account or drawing a pension equal to 60% of the highest three of your last five W-2s, while travelling with your wife and trading a Fidelity account when the mood strikes?

I don't have much in the way of time or need to prospect for new accounts, actually!  Generally I travel whenever I want to.  As far as your pension, well good for you.  It's a perk you get after many years of civil service. er...I mean...middle management.

What will you be doing when you turn sixty?

[/quote]

[quote=joedabrkr]

Sitting around all day watching your Fidelity ProTrader account?  So you've sucked enough from the corporate tit that you're actually retired?  As opposed to going to the office every day and doing nothing useful there?

Tell us, Joe, how do you suppose a broker dealer would continue to exist without people to oversee what is going on?

Do you realize that if you were not a predestined failure, on your last gig out the door, you would have a better attitude about yourself and everybody else in the industry.

[/quote]

Let me see if I have this right.  Referring to me as having sucked the corporate tit is clever, but my referring to your learning to ask if your client would like a new tie is a "last-ditch-tactic?"

I'm still waiting for you to explain how any organization could exist without a management structure.  Does your hatred of those of us who did not fail at places like UBS color your perspective so much that you actually think that there is no need for anything but the least necessary part of a brokerage team, the retail broker?

[quote=joedabrkr]

What will you be doing when you turn sixty?

[/quote]

What's the problem Joe?  You, like Starka, plan to work till you die because you're still trying gather your first $10 grand in savings and can't imagine ever being able to retire?

bef

my mom is an english major and a complete failure in life and she gets as nuts about grammar as you do. its sad.(lower case and poor punctuation just for you) these boards are for good info. to people in the biz or getting in. this is not an english lit class. if he is lazy, who cares? if he doesnt use caps who cares? no one cares what you think about grammar, etc. your a great example of someone who “polishes brass on the titanic”. write a book about how the email messages are destroying culture or tradition, but dont take away from people trying to gain knowledge about this industry. if your worried about lazy people…go round up drug addicts etc. and be their mentor. but get of the horse your riding on. i have noticed that people who are limited in intelligence or social skills worry the most about the smallest detail and unimportant specifics. you and my slacker mom can discuss the finer points of english grammar in the “disability” line.

Doesn't the above run-on sentence appear to be something welcoming to read?

Would anybody glance at it and think, "Boy, I can't wait to wade throught that.  With the lack of punctuation it will be a real joy to try to figure out if the author has an IQ of 65 or 85!"

You never get a second chance to make a first impression is so trite, but so true.

Where is the upside in intentionally appearing to be stupid?

[quote=gorgeko226]

my mom is an english major and a complete failure in life

[/quote]

Let's revisit this for a second.

Here we have a punk loser telling us that his own mother is a complete failure in life.

Let me tell you something, schidthead.  You're going to have to depend on your mother again and again throughout your life.

When you're thirty you're going to go to her and ask her to loan you some money so you can catch up on your mortgage.  She will make that loan because you're her son and she loves you.

When you're thirty two you're going to go to her and ask her to loan you some money so you can catch up on your mortgage.  She will point out that you didnt' repay the last loan, you'll give her some song and dance about how hard life is, and she will make that loan because you're her son and she loves you.

When you're thirty-four you're going to go to her and ask her for a loan to catch up on your mortage.  She will hesitate because she will be approaching her own retirement and will be worried about her own nest egg--but after thinking it over for a day or two she will write a check to your mortgage company and mail it to them herself.

When you're thirty-six you're going to go to her and ask her for a loan to catch up on your mortgage.  She will tell you that she cannot affor do keep giving you several thousand dollars at a time which you never repay.  You will call her a greedy loser and storm out of her house.

She will stand in the window and watch you leave, wondering if you'll ever come back.  Wondering if she really cares.

You know what?  You're mother is going to have a school teacher's pension with wonderful benefits.

You're going to have a resume that finds its way to the circular file because you are the loser, not her.

Note to self,  proofread what you write, and stop making the possessive brain lapse regarding you're and your.

Also have a cup of coffee before turning on your computer so early in the morning.

[quote=NASD Newbie]

Doesn't the above run-on sentence appear to be something welcoming to read?

Would anybody glance at it and think, "Boy, I can't wait to wade throught that.  With the lack of punctuation it will be a real joy to try to figure out if the author has an IQ of 65 or 85!"

You never get a second chance to make a first impression is so trite, but so true.

Where is the upside in intentionally appearing to be stupid?

[quote=NASD Newbie]

[quote=gorgeko226]

my mom is an english major and a complete failure in life

[/quote]

Let's revisit this for a second.

Here we have a punk loser telling us that his own mother is a complete failure in life.

Let me tell you something, schidthead.  You're going to have to depend on your mother again and again throughout your life.

When you're thirty you're going to go to her and ask her to loan you some money so you can catch up on your mortgage.  She will make that loan because you're her son and she loves you.

When you're thirty two you're going to go to her and ask her to loan you some money so you can catch up on your mortgage.  She will point out that you didnt' repay the last loan, you'll give her some song and dance about how hard life is, and she will make that loan because you're her son and she loves you.

When you're thirty-four you're going to go to her and ask her for a loan to catch up on your mortage.  She will hesitate because she will be approaching her own retirement and will be worried about her own nest egg--but after thinking it over for a day or two she will write a check to your mortgage company and mail it to them herself.

When you're thirty-six you're going to go to her and ask her for a loan to catch up on your mortgage.  She will tell you that she cannot affor do keep giving you several thousand dollars at a time which you never repay.  You will call her a greedy loser and storm out of her house.

She will stand in the window and watch you leave, wondering if you'll ever come back.  Wondering if she really cares.

You know what?  You're mother is going to have a school teacher's pension with wonderful benefits.

You're going to have a resume that finds its way to the circular file because you are the loser, not her.

[/quote]

Described as only someone who has experienced it could.

Loser.  You shouldn't treat your mother that way.