Made da sale!

[quote=playball] Whats up now dudes?Just met with a few prospects. They

have a million at a wirehouse firm (wont embarrass you) but its all coming

to me. A one million dollar equity indexed annuity ticket will look quite nice

on my next commission check.Boo-Ya!

[/quote]



If I were you, I don’t think I’d order that new Ferrari just yet. I think I’d oh-

so-carefully slide over to compliance and see if it’s going to fly. In this

environment, a million dollar EIA ticket might raise an eyebrow or two, not

to mention a red flag.

[quote=playball]Whats up now dudes?

Just met with a few prospects.  They have a million at a wirehouse firm (wont embarrass you)  but its all coming to me.  A one million dollar equity indexed annuity ticket will look quite nice on my next commission check.

Boo-Ya!


[/quote]

Another troll is what I’m thinking…

[quote=playball]Whats up now dudes?

Just met with a few prospects.  They have a million at a wirehouse firm (wont embarrass you)  but its all coming to me.  A one million dollar equity indexed annuity ticket will look quite nice on my next commission check.

Boo-Ya!

[/quote]

Nice ticket bro.

Hey I had a good day too.  700K account, 1% fee based, coming over from MS.  $7K every year from now on.  Cool huh?

[quote=joedabrkr]

Another troll is what I’m thinking…
[/quote]



Ditto, and if not a troll, then a possible lawsuit. Abusive EIA’s are
going to be the next stick that the spitzers of the world use to beat
up on the B/Ds.

1) Yes, he's probably a troll.

2) Regardless, someone doing a $1,000,000 EIA is not going to be associated with a B/D.

No more 7k for the rest of your career…all the work we have all done building up fee based books is out the window now!

[quote=anonymous]

1) Yes, he's probably a troll.

2) Regardless, someone doing a $1,000,000 EIA is not going to be associated with a B/D.

[/quote]

I agree, though my firm doesn't even do EIA's, I would imagine any self-respecting wire would throw up a red flag. 

As for the Spitzer comment from someone else...unfortunately, EIA's need to be stopped at the state level because they are an insurance product.  In my state, we (wires) are losing a ton of business to insurance agents "guaranteeing" returns but never losses.  Nothing we can do except explain that these guys are duping retirees.

[quote=Diplomaticos] No more 7k for the rest of your career…all the work

we have all done building up fee based books is out the window now!

[/quote]



How so?

[quote=entrylevelFA][quote=anonymous]

1) Yes, he's probably a troll.

2) Regardless, someone doing a $1,000,000 EIA is not going to be associated with a B/D.

[/quote]

I agree, though my firm doesn't even do EIA's, I would imagine any self-respecting wire would throw up a red flag. 

As for the Spitzer comment from someone else...unfortunately, EIA's need to be stopped at the state level because they are an insurance product.  In my state, we (wires) are losing a ton of business to insurance agents "guaranteeing" returns but never losses.  Nothing we can do except explain that these guys are duping retirees.

[/quote]

I don't think he said he was with a wirehouse. You are probably losing the business because your competition tells your clients how YOU are duping them. What goes around comes around. Telling people that they are being duped is tantamount to telling them that you don't think they're smart enough to make a decision without you.

[quote=Bobby Hull]

[quote=playball]Whats up now dudes?

Just met with a few prospects.  They have a million at a wirehouse firm (wont embarrass you)  but its all coming to me.  A one million dollar equity indexed annuity ticket will look quite nice on my next commission check.

Boo-Ya!

[/quote]

Nice ticket bro.

[/quote]

 . . .says one idiot to another.  The mutual admiration society.

Bet you didn't get the ACAT signed.

Indexed annuities?  wonderful.

[quote=Diplomaticos]No more 7k for the rest of your career…all the work we have all done building up fee based books is out the window now!
[/quote]

Not if the accounts are being managed. 

good job! enjoy the moment, But get on the phone and set more appointments

[quote=Bobby Hull][quote=entrylevelFA][quote=anonymous]

1) Yes, he's probably a troll.

2) Regardless, someone doing a $1,000,000 EIA is not going to be associated with a B/D.

[/quote]

I agree, though my firm doesn't even do EIA's, I would imagine any self-respecting wire would throw up a red flag. 

As for the Spitzer comment from someone else...unfortunately, EIA's need to be stopped at the state level because they are an insurance product.  In my state, we (wires) are losing a ton of business to insurance agents "guaranteeing" returns but never losses.  Nothing we can do except explain that these guys are duping retirees.

[/quote]

I don't think he said he was with a wirehouse. You are probably losing the business because your competition tells your clients how YOU are duping them. What goes around comes around. Telling people that they are being duped is tantamount to telling them that you don't think they're smart enough to make a decision without you.

[/quote]

Which is why I don't sell product.  I tell clients their being duped if they are told they need something (i.e. an annuity) without first analyzing their personal needs.  I simply educate and help them make a decision. 

new to this, but i'm interested in this conversation about EIA's.  I've come across some clients who are talking to some insurance salesmen about EIA's and i've been trying to educate them about the product but they keep going back to the guarantee.  Anybody have any other angles to use against them?

[quote=vbrainy][quote=Bobby Hull]

[quote=playball]Whats up now dudes?

Just met with a few prospects.  They have a million at a wirehouse firm (wont embarrass you)  but its all coming to me.  A one million dollar equity indexed annuity ticket will look quite nice on my next commission check.

Boo-Ya!

[/quote]

Nice ticket bro.

[/quote]

 . . .says one idiot to another.  The mutual admiration society.

Bet you didn't get the ACAT signed.

Indexed annuities?  wonderful.

[/quote]

...so says the idiot that thinks that there are ACAT forms to sign when selling an EIA.

[quote=entrylevelFA][quote=Bobby Hull][quote=entrylevelFA][quote=anonymous]

1) Yes, he's probably a troll.

2) Regardless, someone doing a $1,000,000 EIA is not going to be associated with a B/D.

[/quote]

I agree, though my firm doesn't even do EIA's, I would imagine any self-respecting wire would throw up a red flag. 

As for the Spitzer comment from someone else...unfortunately, EIA's need to be stopped at the state level because they are an insurance product.  In my state, we (wires) are losing a ton of business to insurance agents "guaranteeing" returns but never losses.  Nothing we can do except explain that these guys are duping retirees.

[/quote]

I don't think he said he was with a wirehouse. You are probably losing the business because your competition tells your clients how YOU are duping them. What goes around comes around. Telling people that they are being duped is tantamount to telling them that you don't think they're smart enough to make a decision without you.

[/quote]

Which is why I don't sell product.  I tell clients their being duped if they are told they need something (i.e. an annuity) without first analyzing their personal needs.  I simply educate and help them make a decision. 

[/quote]

Oh? You're an educator? How nice for you. I take a different approach. I figure out what they want and sell it to them. In case you haven't heard, people want the potential for growth without the risk of losing principal. Educating them and appealing to their sense of logic is an amateur, idiot's folly.

new to this, but i'm interested in this conversation about EIA's.  I've come across some clients who are talking to some insurance salesmen about EIA's and i've been trying to educate them about the product but they keep going back to the guarantee.  Anybody have any other angles to use against them?

These people are probably your customers and not your clients.  Why else would they be talking to someone else.  It sounds like they want guarantees and you haven't been able to offer guarantees. 

I've never sold an EIA, but I don't think that they are some sort of evil.  EIAs are nothing more than fixed annuities with a different crediting method.  If a fixed annuity is appropriate for a client, then the EIA may be appropriate.  Is a fixed annuity appropriate for these clients?

[quote=anonymous]

new to this, but i'm interested in this conversation about EIA's.  I've come across some clients who are talking to some insurance salesmen about EIA's and i've been trying to educate them about the product but they keep going back to the guarantee.  Anybody have any other angles to use against them?

These people are probably your customers and not your clients.  Why else would they be talking to someone else.  It sounds like they want guarantees and you haven't been able to offer guarantees. 

I've never sold an EIA, but I don't think that they are some sort of evil.  EIAs are nothing more than fixed annuities with a different crediting method.  If a fixed annuity is appropriate for a client, then the EIA may be appropriate.  Is a fixed annuity appropriate for these clients?

[/quote]

EIAs give a participation of the market not the full market growth.  So on the upside if the market does 10%  the EIA may have a participation rate of 70 to 80% of that 10%. In addition many also have a cap on the amount the account is credited.  So if the market did 30% and the contract is 70% participation with a cap of 7% then the client will get 7%.  

The client is assured that they won't lose principal in down markets.  Generally there is nothing credited to the account of the market is down, or sometimes a small interest rate is guaranteed.  VERY SMALL.  So the client is kept from full market participation and/or guaranteed a substandard interest rate.

Here is the real negative in EIAs.  There is a minimum gain guaranteed.  3% is what I have seen in the past.  HOWEVER, the 3% is for the life of the contract....not compounded annually.  So, divide 3% by the number of years the contract has to exist and the guaranteed gain is really peanuts.  The client would be better off buying a 10 15 year muni bond if they want safety and lower taxes or a Variable Annuity with GRIB if they truly wanted market participation with guarantees.  Other products have guarantees much better than EIAs.

Every contract is different and there are a lot of hidden and unexplained things.  If you can get a copy of the contract you can highlight the things the EIA guy doesn't tell the client.  Some of which are (not in all contracts): you have to annuitize the contract to get your money out, the way the contract is calculated (point to point, averaging, quarterly ratchet etc), the high surrender fees, the low % of free withdrawals and so on.  

You also need to ask the clients WHY they think they need an annuity.  You will be surprised how many don't really plan to use the income and are thinking of leaving the investment to heirs.   An annuity is a very bad investment to leave your estate.

EIAs give a participation of the market 

No they don't.  They get credited based upon market performance.  This is very different.

At the risk of drawing the ire of those who refuse to be open minded about any annuity: how exactly do you plan to intend to provide income for an entire generation of Americans who resist authority, do whatever they want, are lousy savers, and will in many cases die broke?

[quote=rollinrock]At the risk of drawing the ire of those who refuse to be open minded about any annuity: how exactly do you plan to intend to provide income for an entire generation of Americans who resist authority, do whatever they want, are lousy savers, and will in many cases die broke?[/quote]

And you think an annuity can stop that?

Not to worry at any rate.  Nancy Pelosi is in the House, and Hillary will soon be in charge.  They'll straighten everything out, and everything will be free to the poor.

[quote=rollinrock]At the risk of drawing the ire of those who refuse to be open minded about any annuity: how exactly do you plan to intend to provide income for an entire generation of Americans who resist authority, do whatever they want, are lousy savers, and will in many cases die broke?[/quote]

At the risk of drawing your ire, how will an annuity solve a problem like that if the person doesn’t have enough money to retire?

More like, stop fighting each other and focus on what is important.

If Hilary is going to jack taxes and annuities can't help, so be it.

I like to try to keep an open mind about things, and debate in a collaborative spirit.

It is almost like a conspiracy, planners get a few ideas that work and defend them to the death so we never pull together and confront the real enemy.

Joe, my overall impression is that some kind of risk transfer could at least help. Part of that might be recognizing the problem earlier on, and embracing the strategy of risk transfer ( leaving some of your money to an insurance company - or using someone else's money).

The problem is see is that special interests at all levels are clouding the solutions. I'll bet you know what I am talking about, since you are an experienced player in the biz.

Let's agree to not get hung up on the details before we frame the issue. We act like a bunch of fish that are examining and fighting about each food particle that floats past us in the stream. Why not control the ecology of the stream?

[quote=rollinrock]

More like, stop fighting each other and focus on what is important.

If Hilary is going to jack taxes and annuities can't help, so be it.

I like to try to keep an open mind about things, and debate in a collaborative spirit.

It is almost like a conspiracy, planners get a few ideas that work and defend them to the death so we never pull together and confront the real enemy.

[/quote]

So tell us...who is the real enemy?

[quote=joedabrkr]
At the risk of drawing your ire, how will an
annuity solve a problem like that if the person doesn’t have enough
money to retire?
[/quote]



The insurance company has magical abilities to generate endless retirement income. See, it says so right here in my annuity presentation.

Oh, now we have Allreit the cynic  ?

What happened the logical researcher debater guy?

[quote=anonymous]new to this, but i’m interested in this
conversation about EIA’s.  I’ve come across some clients who are
talking to some insurance salesmen about EIA’s and i’ve been
trying to educate them about the product but they keep going back
to the guarantee.  Anybody have any other angles to use against
them?

These people are probably your customers and not your clients.  Why else would they be talking to someone else.  It sounds like they want guarantees and you haven't been able to offer guarantees.
[/quote]

Well Philo, I think you know.

The real enemy is anyone who does not add value to the client/advisor/shareholder relationship.

Our personal relationships with client is not a commodity.

I would say a service provider like LPL is an example of an efficient service provider who does not have an agenda to strip money beyond the core business model.

So that leaves all the other suits in inefficient corporate offices to make faciliitate we professionals, who all basically do the same thing, to fight each other over unimportant things.

Conspiracy theory you say? I call it market inefficiency, and exploitation of our own ignorance or bad habits. Cold calling is a great example. You have otherwise intelligent and succcessful people like Bond Guy putting their ego or nostalgia behind " prospect calls ". This is just an example of making money for the useless suits - and tainting our own waters with chum. We ought to make it stop, so we can make more money, and tune up our message to a confused public.

Don't wake up and just smoke the bong every day. Take some responsibility.

[quote=anonymous]

EIAs give a participation of the market 

No they don't.  They get credited based upon market performance.  This is very different.

[/quote]

Well, OK have it your way. I dropped a word.  They give a particpation credit based on index performances which are calculated in various ways. 

Point to point.  Jan 15 to Jan 15.  If the DOW is the target index and the gain was 8% between those two points that is what they use for calculating.  

Averaging monthly point to point:  Take the % gain or loss each month and average it on a 12 month basis.  I believe (not sure) that the negatives are counted as a zero month when doing the calculations.

Quarterly or (monthly) Ratchet:  Take the gain at the end of each 3  or(1)month period and lock that gain into the contract.

There are more.  There are better investments out there.

[quote=Dust Bunny][quote=anonymous]

EIAs give a participation of the market 

No they don't.  They get credited based upon market performance.  This is very different.

[/quote]

Well, OK have it your way. I dropped a word.  They give a particpation credit based on index performances which are calculated in various ways.

That base crediting rate is always at a deep spread to the AGG which is how the insurance company makes its money.



Unless the market drasticly outperforms the total return on an EIA should be roughly equal to the base crediting rate, since all the EIA is doing is converting a stable cash flow into a risky cashflow.



If you offered a monte carlo annuity in which the returns were randomly generated you would get the same result as an EIA. The equity indexation is a distraction.



For example you could have a Red Sox annuity, in which the crediting was applied to bets in vegas on the Red Sox. If the Sox did well you gain positive participation, if they do poorly, you don’t lose money.



This Red Sox annuity is risk free and so much better than a risky investment in stocks or bonds.

[quote=AllREIT]



For example you could have a Red Sox annuity, in which the crediting was applied to bets in vegas on the Red Sox. If the Sox did well you gain positive participation, if they do poorly, you don’t lose money.



This Red Sox annuity is risk free and so much better than a risky investment in stocks or bonds.



[/quote]



It didn’t work out quite like that for Pete Rose.

Guess what? EIAs are not bad. They are sold by some of the most trusted and well respected banks and insurance companies.  You also get guaranteed market-like returns with NO downside risk.  They are the safest investments grandma can buy!  Not to mention, I get a beautiful commission check every time I sell one.  So while you fools are selling muni-bonds and mutual funds, Ill be flying by in my new Ferrari to your grandpa’s house!

[quote=playball]Guess what? EIAs are not bad. They are sold by some of the most trusted and well respected banks and insurance companies.  You also get guaranteed market-like returns with NO downside risk.  They are the safest investments grandma can buy!  Not to mention, I get a beautiful commission check every time I sell one.  So while you fools are selling muni-bonds and mutual funds, Ill be flying by in my new Ferrari to your grandpa’s house!
[/quote]

I feel like I need to go take a shower after reading this post…

So name just ONE “well respected bank” and ONE “well respected insurance company” that sells EIA’s.

Not all EIA’s are bad, but there are a LOT of bad people selling EIA’s.

[quote=joedabrkr]

I feel like I need to go take a shower after reading this post…

So name just ONE “well respected bank” and ONE “well respected insurance company” that sells EIA’s.

Not all EIA’s are bad, but there are a LOT of bad people selling EIA’s.
[/quote]



Well lots of 'em sell 'em. EIA’s are cheap and fulfill a human desire to get something for nothing.



More seriously, look at who you are replying too.

EIA’s are not sold by the top insurance companies.  Look at top flite mutual insurance companies.  None of them sell EIA’s.  EIA’s are not investments.  They are long term savings vehicles.  They are appropriate only when a fixed annuity is appropriate. 

[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=playball]Guess what? EIAs are not bad. They are sold by some of the most trusted and well respected banks and insurance companies.  You also get guaranteed market-like returns with NO downside risk.  They are the safest investments grandma can buy!  Not to mention, I get a beautiful commission check every time I sell one.  So while you fools are selling muni-bonds and mutual funds, Ill be flying by in my new Ferrari to your grandpa's house!
[/quote]

I feel like I need to go take a shower after reading this post....

So name just ONE "well respected bank" and ONE "well respected insurance company" that sells EIA's.

Not all EIA's are bad, but there are a LOT of bad people selling EIA's.
[/quote]

There are a lot of bad people selling fee-based accounts.

[quote=playball]Guess what? EIAs are not bad. They are sold by some of the most trusted and well respected banks and insurance companies.  You also get guaranteed market-like returns with NO downside risk.  They are the safest investments grandma can buy!  Not to mention, I get a beautiful commission check every time I sell one.  So while you fools are selling muni-bonds and mutual funds, Ill be flying by in my new Ferrari to your grandpa's house!
[/quote]

The funny thing is that most pompous brokers don't understand that lots and lots of people are perfectly satisfied only making 6 or 7 percent with no chance of losing money.

You also get guaranteed market-like returns with NO downside risk.   It is statements like this that give these products a bad name.

The funny thing is that most pompous brokers don't understand that lots and lots of people are perfectly satisfied only making 6 or 7 percent with no chance of losing money.  You are absolutely correct, although, I'd expect the returns going forward to be lower than this, but that's just an opinion.   Our job is not to maximize returns.  Rather, it is to maximize the client's chance of achieving their goals within their risk tolerance.  Fixed annuities, regardless of their flavor, can play a part of this.

Climb down from that pulpit, Anon.



No one, and I do mean no one, says, “My broker is Anonymous. He helps

me maximize my chance of achieving my goals within my risk tolerance!

Lemme give you his card!”

[quote=Philo Kvetch]Climb down from that pulpit, Anon.

No one, and I do mean no one, says, "My broker is Anonymous. He helps
me maximize my chance of achieving my goals within my risk tolerance!
Lemme give you his card!"[/quote]

Damn, that was funny.

Very true.  

[quote=Bobby Hull]

[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=playball]Guess what? EIAs are not bad. They are sold by some of the most trusted and well respected banks and insurance companies.  You also get guaranteed market-like returns with NO downside risk.  They are the safest investments grandma can buy!  Not to mention, I get a beautiful commission check every time I sell one.  So while you fools are selling muni-bonds and mutual funds, Ill be flying by in my new Ferrari to your grandpa’s house!
[/quote]

I feel like I need to go take a shower after reading this post…

So name just ONE “well respected bank” and ONE “well respected insurance company” that sells EIA’s.

Not all EIA’s are bad, but there are a LOT of bad people selling EIA’s.
[/quote]

There are a lot of bad people selling fee-based accounts.

[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=Bobby Hull]

[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=playball]Guess what? EIAs are not bad. They are sold by some of the most trusted and well respected banks and insurance companies.  You also get guaranteed market-like returns with NO downside risk.  They are the safest investments grandma can buy!  Not to mention, I get a beautiful commission check every time I sell one.  So while you fools are selling muni-bonds and mutual funds, Ill be flying by in my new Ferrari to your grandpa's house!
[/quote]

I feel like I need to go take a shower after reading this post....

So name just ONE "well respected bank" and ONE "well respected insurance company" that sells EIA's.

Not all EIA's are bad, but there are a LOT of bad people selling EIA's.
[/quote]

There are a lot of bad people selling fee-based accounts.

[/quote]

There are some Bobby, no doubt.  I suspect the percentage of sleazeballs selling EIA's is much higher if you took an honest look at it.  I'm not, by the way, suggesting that you are one of them despite our good-natured jousting.

There are just lots of sleazy sales tactics used to sell EIA's, and I've noticed nobody has accepted the challenge of naming any reputable banks or insurance carriers that sell EIA's.  I know of only one, and frankly I wish they would stay out of the business because if it ever blows up in the press it won't help my VA business.
[/quote]

So...you couldn't sell an EIA without being sleazy?

Most of the EIAs I have seen have a 12+ year surrender schedule (I have seen 18 a couple of times).

I would like a person who sells EIAs to tell me this.  Why use an EIA with a 12 year surrender when I can buy an insured zero-coupon muni for (for example purposes) $.70 on the dollar, and put the other $.30 into a tax-efficient growth mutual fund?  In 12 years, I'm gauranteed to have my $1 of principal + whatever the mutual fund is worth. It's cheaper than an EIA, no surrender penalties, "no downside risk," I would argue better tax treatment, and you don't have to worry about some no-name insurance company going broke and losing ALL your money.

Why isn't that better? This is not rhetorical, I would really like to know.

[quote=joedabrkr]
There are just lots of sleazy sales tactics used to sell EIA's, and I've noticed nobody has accepted the challenge of naming any reputable banks or insurance carriers that sell EIA's.  I know of only one, and frankly I wish they would stay out of the business because if it ever blows up in the press it won't help my VA business.
[/quote]

Are you talking about Protective?  I think they have an EIA. I guess I would call them reputable.

[quote=now_indy]

Most of the EIAs I have seen have a 12+ year surrender schedule (I have seen 18 a couple of times).

I would like a person who sells EIAs to tell me this.  Why use an EIA with a 12 year surrender when I can buy an insured zero-coupon muni for (for example purposes) $.70 on the dollar, and put the other $.30 into a tax-efficient growth mutual fund?  In 12 years, I'm gauranteed to have my $1 of principal + whatever the mutual fund is worth. It's cheaper than an EIA, no surrender penalties, "no downside risk," I would argue better tax treatment, and you don't have to worry about some no-name insurance company going broke and losing ALL your money.

Why isn't that better? This is not rhetorical, I would really like to know.

[/quote]

Most EIA's I've seen are not over 10 year surrender periods. People who understand EIA's (not you) will look at your statement and realize what an ass you are.

What will happen to the value of those zeroes when interest rates go up? That will "force" the client to hold them to term. Kinda like a surrender period. The last time someone lost all of their money in an EIA, for ANY reason, was never. The last time anyone lost ANY money in an EIA, other than than taking a surrender charge, which THEY cause to happen, was never.

Remember Orange County?

[quote=Bobby Hull][quote=joedabrkr] [quote=Bobby Hull]

[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=playball]Guess what? EIAs are not bad. They are sold by some of the most trusted and well respected banks and insurance companies.  You also get guaranteed market-like returns with NO downside risk.  They are the safest investments grandma can buy!  Not to mention, I get a beautiful commission check every time I sell one.  So while you fools are selling muni-bonds and mutual funds, Ill be flying by in my new Ferrari to your grandpa's house!
[/quote]

I feel like I need to go take a shower after reading this post....

So name just ONE "well respected bank" and ONE "well respected insurance company" that sells EIA's.

Not all EIA's are bad, but there are a LOT of bad people selling EIA's.
[/quote]

There are a lot of bad people selling fee-based accounts.

[/quote]

There are some Bobby, no doubt.  I suspect the percentage of sleazeballs selling EIA's is much higher if you took an honest look at it.  I'm not, by the way, suggesting that you are one of them despite our good-natured jousting.

There are just lots of sleazy sales tactics used to sell EIA's, and I've noticed nobody has accepted the challenge of naming any reputable banks or insurance carriers that sell EIA's.  I know of only one, and frankly I wish they would stay out of the business because if it ever blows up in the press it won't help my VA business.
[/quote]

So...you couldn't sell an EIA without being sleazy?

[quote=Bobby Hull][quote=now_indy]

Most of the EIAs I have seen have a 12+ year surrender schedule (I have seen 18 a couple of times).

I would like a person who sells EIAs to tell me this.  Why use an EIA with a 12 year surrender when I can buy an insured zero-coupon muni for (for example purposes) $.70 on the dollar, and put the other $.30 into a tax-efficient growth mutual fund?  In 12 years, I'm gauranteed to have my $1 of principal + whatever the mutual fund is worth. It's cheaper than an EIA, no surrender penalties, "no downside risk," I would argue better tax treatment, and you don't have to worry about some no-name insurance company going broke and losing ALL your money.

Why isn't that better? This is not rhetorical, I would really like to know.

[/quote]

Most EIA's I've seen are not over 10 year surrender periods. People who understand EIA's (not you) will look at your statement and realize what an ass you are.

What will happen to the value of those zeroes when interest rates go up? That will "force" the client to hold them to term. Kinda like a surrender period. The last time someone lost all of their money in an EIA, for ANY reason, was never. The last time anyone lost ANY money in an EIA, other than than taking a surrender charge, which THEY cause to happen, was never.

Remember Orange County?

[/quote]

Plus in a zero coupon bond you have zero liquidty.  At least in the EIA you have the ability to take a free withdrawal during the surrender period.

You don't have to be sleazy to sell EIAs. I've sold them and I don't consider myself a sleazy agent.  I use the ones with the 10 year or less surrender periods.   ING and RBC both have nice products.  The problems that we see are from agents who have inappropriately sold long surrender annuities without fully explaining the product. Allianz is in a lawsuit right now over this.    The other issue is when agents put all or the majority of the client's money into a restrictive investment like an annuity (of any kind).

[quote=now_indy]

[quote=joedabrkr]
There are just lots of sleazy sales tactics used to sell EIA’s, and I’ve noticed nobody has accepted the challenge of naming any reputable banks or insurance carriers that sell EIA’s.  I know of only one, and frankly I wish they would stay out of the business because if it ever blows up in the press it won’t help my VA business.
[/quote]

Are you talking about Protective?  I think they have an EIA. I guess I would call them reputable.

A few links to info about the lawsuit.

http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/case/allianz.html

http://www.insurancenewsnet.com/article.asp?n=1&innID=20 0705122160.15_0ad600164f9af60b

I'm dealing with some client's who put about 400K into Allianz annuities and they didn't realize that they had little liquidity (only 5% free withdrawal) and that they had to annuitize to get their money out of the contract.  Its part of a pension/profit sharing plan and if a few of their employees retire in this year, they are going to have to liquidate other investments that are doing much better than the performance of the Allianz annuity.  We are going to annuitize one of the contracts this year and the other the next year to get the money out as quickly as we can (over a ten year period).   

This pension money should never have been put into this type of product.  The agent, who is no longer at the B/D he was representing gee I wonder why) make a big killing on commissions and the clients are now strapped to an inappropriate contract for the next 10 years.

[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=now_indy]

[quote=joedabrkr]
There are just lots of sleazy sales tactics used to sell EIA's, and I've noticed nobody has accepted the challenge of naming any reputable banks or insurance carriers that sell EIA's.  I know of only one, and frankly I wish they would stay out of the business because if it ever blows up in the press it won't help my VA business.
[/quote]

Are you talking about Protective?  I think they have an EIA. I guess I would call them reputable.

[/quote]

I would not call them reputable per se.  Allianz is who I in mind.
[/quote]

YOu do Allianz VA's? Haven't they already blown up in the press?

[quote=Dust Bunny]

A few links to info about the lawsuit.

http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/case/allianz.html

http://www.insurancenewsnet.com/article.asp?n=1&innID=20 0705122160.15_0ad600164f9af60b

I'm dealing with some client's who put about 400K into Allianz annuities and they didn't realize that they had little liquidity (only 5% free withdrawal) and that they had to annuitize to get their money out of the contract.  Its part of a pension/profit sharing plan and if a few of their employees retire in this year, they are going to have to liquidate other investments that are doing much better than the performance of the Allianz annuity.  We are going to annuitize one of the contracts this year and the other the next year to get the money out as quickly as we can (over a ten year period).   

This pension money should never have been put into this type of product.  The agent, who is no longer at the B/D he was representing gee I wonder why) make a big killing on commissions and the clients are now strapped to an inappropriate contract for the next 10 years.

[/quote]

Did they buy that MasterDex 10? That thing is a piece of crap.

[quote=Bobby Hull][quote=Dust Bunny]

A few links to info about the lawsuit.

http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/case/allianz.html

http://www.insurancenewsnet.com/article.asp?n=1&innID=20 0705122160.15_0ad600164f9af60b

I'm dealing with some client's who put about 400K into Allianz annuities and they didn't realize that they had little liquidity (only 5% free withdrawal) and that they had to annuitize to get their money out of the contract.  Its part of a pension/profit sharing plan and if a few of their employees retire in this year, they are going to have to liquidate other investments that are doing much better than the performance of the Allianz annuity.  We are going to annuitize one of the contracts this year and the other the next year to get the money out as quickly as we can (over a ten year period).   

This pension money should never have been put into this type of product.  The agent, who is no longer at the B/D he was representing gee I wonder why) make a big killing on commissions and the clients are now strapped to an inappropriate contract for the next 10 years.

[/quote]

Did they buy that MasterDex 10? That thing is a piece of crap.

[/quote]

Yep.  That's the one 

[quote=now_indy]

I would like a person who sells EIAs to tell me
this.  Why use an EIA with a 12 year surrender when I can buy an
insured zero-coupon muni for (for example purposes) $.70 on the
dollar, and put the other $.30 into a tax-efficient growth mutual
fund?  In 12 years, I’m gauranteed to have my $1 of principal +
whatever the mutual fund is worth.

Why isn't that better? This is not rhetorical, I would really like to know.

Jackson National also has some EIAs, one even with a 5 year surrender.

[quote=Bobby Hull][quote=joedabrkr] [quote=now_indy]

[quote=joedabrkr]
There are just lots of sleazy sales tactics used to sell EIA's, and I've noticed nobody has accepted the challenge of naming any reputable banks or insurance carriers that sell EIA's.  I know of only one, and frankly I wish they would stay out of the business because if it ever blows up in the press it won't help my VA business.
[/quote]

Are you talking about Protective?  I think they have an EIA. I guess I would call them reputable.

[/quote]

I would not call them reputable per se.  Allianz is who I in mind.
[/quote]

YOu do Allianz VA's? Haven't they already blown up in the press?

[quote=azdawn]Jackson National also has some EIAs, one even with a 5 year surrender.[/quote]

I've just started using the 5 year and it's a slam dunk to sell. We're forced to do something at the end. We can do another 5 years and get paid again or we can do something else and get paid again. Most importantly, we can close deals with people that like the idea of EIA's, but couldn't commit to a longer surrender period.

[quote=joedabrkr]
Yes there has been some negative coverage, but
not for their VA’s…for their EIA’s.  This only reinforces my
negative outlook on the product.
[/quote]



And if John Edwards is president, get ready for a storm of lawsuits about the suitablity of EIA’s.

John Edwards as President?

Doesn't that belong under Weekend Jokes thrread?

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EIA’s are only bad when marketed inappropriately.

I work for a wire and also happen to cover 5 bank branches.  I have sold EIA’s.  The only time I ever sell them is if the client is stuck on buying a fixed annuity.  The EIA that I have used is through Jefferson Pilot/Lincoln National (very reputable insurance company) and has surrender periods of 6 or 8 years.  They also provide a guaranteed fixed rate, which is competitive with other fixed annuity rates. 

If someone is absolutely dead set on buying a fixed annuity there is absolutely nothing wrong with this product.  Period. 

Frankly, I dislike all fixed annuity products, but if a prospects demands them it is my job to find the best. 

[quote=AllREIT] [quote=joedabrkr]
Yes there has been some negative coverage, but not for their VA's...for their EIA's.  This only reinforces my negative outlook on the product.
[/quote]

And if John Edwards is president, get ready for a storm of lawsuits about the suitablity of EIA's.
[/quote]

I heard about an abortion that survived...I didn't know that it was you.