Jones Production
Hey all,
Quick question…
When EDJ refers to 100% expectations during the first year - what does that equate to in production? If this is unanswerable for some reason I guess the back-up question would be what would you consider average production for an EDJ FA during the first 12 months of sales?
I appreciate the feedback
Cheers
I'm new hire with EDJ and I was told opening at least 10 new accounts per month was what I should really be shooting for upon receiving my "can sell" date. Each month after opening 5 accounts (of a minimum size)you receive $500. Accounts 6-10 are $100 each, and 11 up are $200 each. I believe this is a temporary bonus structure and a more experienced EDJ FA should be able to shed a little more light on the subject. Like I said, I’m still a rookie with the firm just about to begin the “Study for Success” program. Hope some of this info helps.<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
If I’m reading the chart right, $81,200 is “standard” which would be 100% of production total for the first year. That equates to a net of let’s say $30,450 (37.5% payout). Add in salary, which will vary by region, milestone bonuses of $10,000 in that first year, and whatever new account bonuses you can muster and you shouldn’t have to eat hot dogs at a quick stop everyday for lunch because you don’t have any money. If your salary is simply $2000 a month, you’re looking at somewhere around $65K that first year. Not too shabby.
I remember that first year very well. I had salary + production, and I thought I had hit the big time.
Then the salary ended... And my production began to plateau because I had become so sick of begging people for money... Then the market tanked and my production began a downward trend... Then my mutual fund trails diminished... And...now my family and I live in a van down by the river.I’m glad someone could take over my van when I left…
[quote=Borker Boy]I remember that first year very well. I had salary + production, and I thought I had hit the big time.
Then the salary ended... And my production began to plateau because I had become so sick of begging people for money... Then the market tanked and my production began a downward trend... Then my mutual fund trails diminished... And...now my family and I live in a van down by the river.[/quote] Just to make it clear to the OP, the market tanking and Borker's production beginning a downward trend don't really have that much correlation. A little, but not as much as you might think. And if his production reached a plateau in his second year, he may want to reconsider his career choice. Cause if you get tired of begging people for money in year two, it's going to be a long, long career. If your trails decreasing has had that much of an effect on your paycheck, you must have a whole lot more in assets than I'm guessing. However, I'm guessing that it's just one more thing in a long line of excuses.Let me say it here...I sold my van to Spiff before I left...He moved it to East St Louis..down by Ozzy's...
Thanks all,
I appreciate the responses. Hey at least East St. Louis is a safe, beautiful place to park your van/home.In East St Louis, you have the benefits of the Sauget Ballet. I took advantage of the show many times.
Hey bastermind, keep in mind that when Jones says that you get money after you open 5 accounts, they mean 5 HOUSEHOLDS. If you meet a nice couple, and open 2 rollover IRAs, 2 Roth IRAs, and a joint account, Jones considers that 1 household. You will NOT receive $500 for opening those 5 accounts. You need to meet 5 nice couples that month to make the $500.
That's the way it was when I started (2002), it may have changed now.
The new account bonus is very difficult to achieve with any regularity. Out of all the people I kept in touch with after training, I could count on one hand the number of times we, as a group, hit it.
Just don't count it in your income estimates. It should be considered a true "bonus." Good luck.That is so true. It is ALMOST impossible to hit the new account bonus. It is very difficult to achieve the new account bonus. I have opened very, large detailed accounts (lots of paperwork, 1035 exchanges etc) and it only counts for one. Also, if you press Jones they will admit their system of keeping track of the new account bonus does not work. You need to track every account you open, know the rules and go after the new account bonus.
Second point, the first year was gravy.. when the salary goes away it is awful!! You actually start negative each month with what you know they will take out of the monthly pay check. I must also mention the milestone bonus is also a joke for most new fa's. You need to look at your contract, you must be at exceeding not meeting to get these bonuses. I have hit most of them, but sometimes the money does not hit, a client drags his feet and you fall to 99 % of standard..bye bye milestone...all in all their bonus system is a joke!MB,
I agree with most of what you said, other than the Milestone Bonuses. Those are very easy to hit. Jones’ hurdles are so low to begin with, that you should be hitting msot of them.
The real question is why do you have minimum standards that are easy to achieve and then you have to add bonuses on top of that as an incentive? Why not pay fairly and not hire every Tom, Dick and Harry that apply for a job?
monopolybet,
That mean old Edward Jones! They didn’t let you count commissions you almost got towards your bonus? That is ridiculous. You did all that work opening 529’s for the Brady Bunch and they don’t let you count each individual account? Come on EJ! Greg, Marcia, Peter, Jan, Bobby, and Cindy. That should be 6 accounts. Throw in Mike & Carol and Alice & Sam. Lots of paperwork! That should be $100’s in bonus. While we are at it we should count doors you almost knocked on as a contact. Lastly, even though you asked to have 401k, life insurance, health insurance, and DI withheld from your paycheck, we should say EJ makes you start at less than zero. It is their fault you want health insurance and it does not work that way at any other firm. It might not actually be Jones that is the joke eh?
[quote=now_indy]
Hey bastermind, keep in mind that when Jones says that you get money after you open 5 accounts, they mean 5 HOUSEHOLDS. If you meet a nice couple, and open 2 rollover IRAs, 2 Roth IRAs, and a joint account, Jones considers that 1 household. You will NOT receive $500 for opening those 5 accounts. You need to meet 5 nice couples that month to make the $500.
That's the way it was when I started (2002), it may have changed now.
[/quote] And if your new client already has a "relationship" with Jones, forget it. That one ain't counting toward the bonus either.If you mean "relationship" as in already has an account with EDJ that they're transferring to your office, then it's not a new household now is it?
Noggin - what does pay fairly mean? Would it be a better business model to give everyone $10,000 more in salary to start with, but raise the minimums so that the attrition rate is even higher? The bonuses are just simply that. Bonuses. You get paid extra for doing the appropriate amount of work to earn the bonuses. Jones makes it easy enough to hit that it's really an incentive, but not easy enough that you just have to clock in everyday. It's a ton better than it used to be with a $2000 per month draw that they paid to you in a bonus at the end of your first year. Any of you Jones guys been around long enough to work under that structure? Which would you rather have the draw or the salary, plus commissions, plus bonuses?If they would hand out donkeys to help with the doorknocking…and throw in a new pair of shoes occasionally…that would be a great bonus. But NOOOO…can’t do that can you. Whats a new donkey cost vs all the profit you clowns make.
[quote=Borker Boy] I remember that first year very well. I had salary + production, and I thought I had hit the big time.
Then the salary ended…
And my production began to plateau because I had become so sick of begging people for money…
Then the market tanked and my production began a downward trend…
Then my mutual fund trails diminished…
And…now my family and I live in a van down by the river.[/quote]
HA HA HA AHA AH That is some funny shit…
I used to wonder that myself. But the problem is, no matter how good the hiring prcoess is, you can't weed out people without the "IT" factor. You don't REALLY know who is going to be successful at this business. This business is tough as shlt, and even very talented people fail out. So by giving incentives, you are essentially paying the people that are going to make it a higher salary, and weeding out the people that won't. It's cold, but it's a reality. Look at it this way, if you owned your own firm, and you had to hire 10 people, would you rather pay them all a ton of money, knowing that only a few ould make it, or find a way to pay the really good people (who you can't yet identify) more than the people that will ultimately fail anyway? I am certain that if Jones, or any other firm, knew the secret to hiring people that they KNEW wouldn't fail, they could pay them all a whole lot more. Problem is, like being an FA, there is no magic bullet in hiring/recruiting.The real question is why do you have minimum standards that are easy to achieve and then you have to add bonuses on top of that as an incentive? Why not pay fairly and not hire every Tom, Dick and Harry that apply for a job?
[quote=Spaceman Spiff]
If you mean "relationship" as in already has an account with EDJ that they're transferring to your office, then it's not a new household now is it?
[/quote] Not exactly. What I mean is that if you open an account for a client who has an account anywhere in the country with Edward Jones, but they don't transfer it to you, the new account does not apply toward the bonus.The reason I posted the “new account” explanation is because this was not clearly explained to me when I was hired. I don’t mind them only counting households. But, they should say 5 HOUSEHOLDS, not 5 ACCOUNTS. Why is that so hard?
It's been seven years since I started with Jones, and they are STILL saying 5 ACCOUNTS gets a bonus, when that is not really what they mean. I think the definition of account is pretty standard, and if I open a Roth IRA, a rollover IRA, and a joint account, that is three accounts by anyone's definition. If you don't want to pay me based on that, that's fine, but don't mislead me.Semantics. You’re correct, they should change the name to reflect the true nature of the bonus. But at the end of the day it’s a semantics issue.
My guess is that it has to do with Ted Jones saying that if you could open 10 new accounts every month, you'd be successful. It's been a part of the Jones vernacular way too long for it to change now.You guys are waaay overthinking and waaaay over explaining all of this.
1: Noggin answered his question in his question. The reason they use an INCENTIVE is to INCENTIVIZE people to work harder and achieve more. Capitalism.
2: A FAIR wage compensates people based on what they produce. If they are paid more OR less than they produce it is UNFAIR. That pay comes from somewhere if they are not producing it themselves. Stockholders Partners or Taxpayers. Capitalism.
3: We had a donkey until bspears quit. (just kidding I think maybe :))
4: If I was Borker and I believed in reincarnation I would kill myself. Even if he came back as a turd it would be an improvement.
Indy,
I agree, they don't explain it at all. The first time that I heard "households" and minimum gross was when I was in St. Louis for training. Even then, before I knew just how difficult it would actually be, it sounded materially different than what was pitched. That said, I can't honestly say that it would have changed my mind, but for a firm that preaches honesty it is questionable.This is getting ridiculously stupid. Imabroker give me a break. EJ is trying to trick people to work for them by “pitching” a different definition of account? Listen to what you are typing. Lemme guess…If you were “told” the technical definition of an account or you were “told” you would one day be expected to have a minimum gross production, you would be much more successful today. Blame the man you loser.
I can’t say that Jones tricked me when I worked for them. They were very clear on most subjects less clear on others. It’s called a contract, you need to read it before you sign it.
After you have been there for 4-6 years if you want to organize your business differently, go do it. I did.... I am better for it and Jones is just fine without me.Oh no, ytrewq, you still have the donkeys…I know…cause I left mine. I remember him fondly, I named him Jim W…he used to shit all over the office.
Wow, I bet you're going to have a wonderful Christmas holiday with that attitude! All we are saying is that the definition of minimum account was never specifically defined until after the contract was signed. He also said that it wouldn't have affected his decision either way (me either). Calm down and re-read the posts before you freak out.This is getting ridiculously stupid. Imabroker give me a break. EJ is trying to trick people to work for them by “pitching” a different definition of account? Listen to what you are typing. Lemme guess…If you were “told” the technical definition of an account or you were “told” you would one day be expected to have a minimum gross production, you would be much more successful today. Blame the man you loser.
[quote=imabroker]Indy,
I agree, they don't explain it at all. The first time that I heard "households" and minimum gross was when I was in St. Louis for training. Even then, before I knew just how difficult it would actually be, it sounded materially different than what was pitched. That said, I can't honestly say that it would have changed my mind, but for a firm that preaches honesty it is questionable. [/quote] Ok...the following came directly from the website: "New Account BonusesIf you meet certain eligibility criteria, you may earn new account bonuses for the first 36 months after successful completion of study and initial training. These bonuses are designed to help support you while you get your business up and running. If eligible, you may receive a $500 lump sum bonus after you open your fifth qualifying account, a bonus of $100 per account when you open accounts 6-10, and a bonus of $200 per account when you open accounts 11 and above" When I was hired...I read this and said hmmmmmm...Mr. recruiter...what is a "qualifying account" and they told me...no surprises. I guess they just expect people to read and ask questions if they don't understand something. If they explained ad nauseum, every little detail of the compensation package, it would be a year before you could get through it and actually apply. Note...It doesn't say "open 5 accounts and get $500"...it says "qualifying"...if that doesn't make an intelligent applicant ask the question, then you deserve what you get!
Just a question, at other firms, doesn’t everyone think of “households” or “clients” when they think of accounts? I mean, maybe it’s just me, but I don’t get all crazy excited when I open 5 accounts for one family, versus one massive IRA for one single guy. This discussion is just spiraling out of control.
They also didn't identify their equity discount payout policy in the new-hire package, or the mutual fund breakpoint schedule. So if you are curious, you ask. Personally, when I read this the first time, I just ASSUMED that account meant "household". Otherwise, you would be getting new account bonuses for every damn household you open ("Hey, IRA for you, IRA for you, Roth for you, Roth for you, Joint for you, Single for you, and let's put 10K in each one").This is spiraling out of control.
If Jones would change their propaganda to read "households" instead of "accounts," then this whole discussion would never have happened. Is that so hard? Yes, you can ask questions. Yes, you can have people clarify. But when you can change ONE WORD, which would alleviate all of that, why don't you?You can’t cure stupid…
You’re right, you can’t cure stupid. There should be no reason to change it, but for the stupid people.
Thanks B24, you’ve just shown your true colors (green). Maybe one day you’ll leave the mother ship and actually open your eyes. You’ll be kicking yourself for not doing it sooner.
if a new rep is starting out with nothing, $500 in one month is a good chunk of coin.
big difference between opening 2 roth's, 2 529's, a rollover, a couple term policies, AND walking out knowing you just got a little extra coin from the mother ship since your income is next to nothing! it should be households, period. it is not accounts. when you are BRAND new there is a huge difference. i realize to most of us it simply semantics, but when $500 can represent a 25% boost in your income in any 1 month, it is a valid criticism. why can't they simply change the wording?OK…if you want to get technical…they don’t say households because just because you open 5 households in a month doesn’t mean you get the bonus…the account has to either generate a $100 gross commission or be $10k AUM…That is why they use “Qualifying Account”…They could say “Qualifying Household”…but then i’m sure you’d find something else to bitch about. You see, haters will always find fault with those they hate.
I hate your name...
[quote=bspears]
I hate your name...
[/quote][quote=theironhorse]if a new rep is starting out with nothing, $500 in one month is a good chunk of coin.
big difference between opening 2 roth's, 2 529's, a rollover, a couple term policies, AND walking out knowing you just got a little extra coin from the mother ship since your income is next to nothing! it should be households, period. it is not accounts. when you are BRAND new there is a huge difference. i realize to most of us it simply semantics, but when $500 can represent a 25% boost in your income in any 1 month, it is a valid criticism. why can't they simply change the wording? [/quote]A: You don't get coin from the mothership. You get coin from me and every other partner/employee.
B: I don't want my money wasted on people who either:
1: Try to game the system.
2: Are too stupid to do a tiny bit of research on their career choice.
3: Will in any way, shape, or form be reliant on the definition of an "account" to
ensure financial survival in this business.
Next people are going to complain because Jones (or any other firm for that matter) did not explain that the market could go down. "Well, they said it could go down. Just not this much. They also did not explain to me how mad people would be when they lost money. They also did not explain if I took this job and I did not have enough savings and did not make enough commissions and my bills were large enough I could run out of money."
I am not angry. I am not mad. Christmas will be good. I am tired. Tired of cry babies. Tired of people who take no personal responsibility (Good God! You are a FA!) Mostly I am tired of stupid.
your entire post is a pathetic attempt to switch the argument and focus the attention away from the fact that the info jones gives new ir’s is misleading, period.
and i am tired of people coming on here asking “what is the best salary i can get as new fa?” try NONE. it is how most all people started. it is called performance, you will make plenty if you perform.
[quote=theironhorse]your entire post is a pathetic attempt to switch the argument and focus the attention away from the fact that the info jones gives new ir’s is misleading, period.
[/quote]
You are an idiot. This whole topic was switched from the original question before I commented. It is why I commented in the first place. The only thing pathetic is you. To suggest that “Jones” or any company would mislead someone to take a job so that Jones could lose a shitload of money on that person is stupid. You can’t be nearly as naive as your post suggests. You do actually understand and believe in capitalism. Don’t you?
ytrewq,
Are there little voices in your head arguing with you? I'm just tying to figure out where you're getting this crap. Ironhorse is right, you are pathetic.I just got hired by EDJ, the new account bonus system was explained to me during the interview. In fact, during the fact finding interview with an exp. FA they ask you to inquire about it. This is common in about every comp. plan I’ve been part of or written as a sales manager. Every compensation / bonus plan on the planet has qualifiers to stop gaming.
Instead of worrying about tracking your accounts to get a silly $500 bonus you could have made 1-2 more contacts and actually built your business. Grow up and get to work ladies.
When you have ACTUALLY done it you can call people ladies..... You're a pledge!I just got hired by EDJ, the new account bonus system was explained to me during the interview. In fact, during the fact finding interview with an exp. FA they ask you to inquire about it. This is common in about every comp. plan I’ve been part of or written as a sales manager. Every compensation / bonus plan on the planet has qualifiers to stop gaming.
Instead of worrying about tracking your accounts to get a silly $500 bonus you could have made 1-2 more contacts and actually built your business. Grow up and get to work ladies.
Done what? You are not arguing how to speak to a client, what to
offer, or how to produce… just a basic compensation issue. Would not comment on what I don’t know yet. However, I think
we all know some sales people in all fields spend as much time tracking
and complaining about their compensation as they actually spend trying
to earn it.
As someone who just went through the process I’d call myself an expert on this topic and you the “pledge”, now go get me a beer
[quote=now_indy]This is spiraling out of control.
If Jones would change their propaganda to read "households" instead of "accounts," then this whole discussion would never have happened. Is that so hard? Yes, you can ask questions. Yes, you can have people clarify. But when you can change ONE WORD, which would alleviate all of that, why don't you?[/quote]The consensuses on the new account bonuses from the experienced FAs that I've heard from on this forum paint a fairly grim picture as far as feasibility. If it's so hard to obtain why should this debate over semantics and interpretation even matter? I set myself to a higher standard than most and am pretty confident to at least achieve the minimum $500 bonus but I'm just trying to make a point. I've heard a great deal of pissing and moaning topped with EDJ bashing in these threads and I think people need to suck it up and go put on their man-pants or find a new career. I spent a lot of time in the Middle East when I was in the military under the crappiest environments, shot at on a daily basis, eating & sleeping if I could, and had a job to do where not meeting expectations was unacceptable. I'm happy to have this opportunity and am not afraid to work my ass off and have doors slammed in my face but it seems as though some of my fellow FAs bitch WAY too much about frivolous crap. Let me hand you a box of tissues and I’ll pretend to listen to your grievances so can we now move on to a new conversation in regard to the OP’s question? Thanks in advance.<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
thanks for the info/update volt. i am glad everything was spelled out to you. that is all i was asking for.
and my business is just fine, but thanks for worrying about me.
[quote=ytrewq]
[quote=theironhorse]your entire post is a pathetic attempt to switch the argument and focus the attention away from the fact that the info jones gives new ir’s is misleading, period.
[/quote]You are an idiot. This whole topic was switched from the original question before I commented. It is why I commented in the first place. The only thing pathetic is you. To suggest that “Jones” or any company would mislead someone to take a job so that Jones could lose a shitload of money on that person is stupid. You can’t be nearly as naive as your post suggests. You do actually understand and believe in capitalism. Don’t you? [/quote]
wow, you totally got me there. you uncovered the fact that i do not believe in capitalism. that completely sums up my position on the jones new account bonus.
[quote=now_indy]ytrewq,
Are there little voices in your head arguing with you? I'm just tying to figure out where you're getting this crap. Ironhorse is right, you are pathetic.[/quote]Absolutely none of your post makes any sense. If you would kindly point out what "crap" you are talking about I will tell you where I got it.
Voices in my head arguing? Huh? Explain please.
I called ironhorse pathetic. He said I was making a pathetic attempt...
You are just babbling nonsensically. You are now second on my list of idiots.
[quote=ytrewq] [quote=now_indy]ytrewq,
Are there little voices in your head arguing with you? I'm just tying to figure out where you're getting this crap. Ironhorse is right, you are pathetic.[/quote]Absolutely none of your post makes any sense. If you would kindly point out what "crap" you are talking about I will tell you where I got it.
Voices in my head arguing? Huh? Explain please.
I called ironhorse pathetic. He said I was making a pathetic attempt...
You are just babbling nonsensically. You are now second on my list of idiots.
[/quote] No way, second! I have just hired a counselor who can help me with my low self-esteem. Re-read your posts, you are literally writing your own rebuttals. That's the crap (and the voices) I'm talking about. When I originally posted, I said this: Jones should change the word "accounts" to the word "households" in their recruiting propaganda. That's it, that's all I said. I said nothing about trying to game the system, I said nothing about whether it's too hard or not, or that I could or could not do it. I just wanted them to change a word, that's it! I think it is a misleading statement (as do others on this board). I am not a Jones hater. I think it's a great place to start out. I do have problems with the firm (who doesn't). But, they gave me my start, and there are some very good people at Jones. If I was hit by a bus tomorrow, I would have no problem with my wife taking our savings (and my life insurance proceeds) to my Jones mentor. He would probably stick her in American Funds and Hartford, but that's ok, I'm cool with that. He's a good guy who would have her best interest in mind, and that's what is important. I am now done with this thread. And ytrewq, you're still pathetic.
The point is that Jones DOES overstate the first -third income. The all but guarantee the new account bonus and the milestone bonus if you do your 25 “real” contacts a day. I had worked on commission sales for more then 20 years so I had a lot of experience with comp plans. They out right promise you the 6k per year of new account bonus in your pay plan. The also know it is not tracked correctly and it is almost impossible to hit each, ever month…ask your dl at the head office they will admit these problems to you.
Seems like everyone posting here could have built their business a bit more if we step out of the food fight in the online cafeteria. Go download “Money On My Mind” by Lil Wayne. There’s some motivation for ya.
[quote=monopolybet]The point is that Jones DOES overstate the first -third income. The all but guarantee the new account bonus and the milestone bonus if you do your 25 “real” contacts a day. I had worked on commission sales for more then 20 years so I had a lot of experience with comp plans. They out right promise you the 6k per year of new account bonus in your pay plan. The also know it is not tracked correctly and it is almost impossible to hit each, ever month…ask your dl at the head office they will admit these problems to you.[/quote]
Thank you for proving my point! Awesome!
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