How much can be made?

You can make 100k after 1-3 years of making 40k.

First of all, set aside a couple of hours and read the previous posts on these boards. That should help you decide which broker/dealer is appropriate for you.

Second of all, you need to really think about your choice of career. I believe the best way to get somewhat of a feel for the brokerage business is imagine you just quit your present CPA firm and went out on your own. Think about all the issues that would entail: marketing, sales, etc. 

The similarities between being a broker and a CPA end there, however. As a CPA, you deal with a fairly tangible product that has almost certain results. The concept is easy for people to grasp and they pretty much know what to expect. However, being a broker, the product we sell is intangible with uncertain results. Thus, it's much harder to sell. 

You could always snatch some clients from your current firm, set up your own CPA office, and do the brokerage stuff on the side. There are some broker/dealers who are set up exclusively for this type of business model.

Good luck!

[quote=RecordGuy]

I hope you guys can give me some good advice.

I have been an accountant with a big firm for 6 years.  I am 28.  I am looking to switch careers, because 1) I'm bored with it and 2)I have a new boss who I hate (think Bill Lumberg from Office Space, seriously).

I've talked to the Edward Jones and Merrill Lynch people.  They both paint a rosy picture, but I'm not sure.  How much money can you make as a financial advisor/IR?  How much do you guys make?  If you had your pick, which firm would you want to work for?  Also, if you could do one thing differently in your career what would it be?

Thanks any help!

[/quote]

You're probably a second year manager, right? You make about $75000 right now and bust your ass for it? I made about $80,000 my first year in this business and $150,000 in the second year. I would say I worked NO harder than I did as an auditor at Arthur Andersen. Also, I'm MUCH happier than I was as an accountant. The only area where you may have a problem is that you will try to use your brain too much. In this business, the dumber you are the more you will make.

In our office the Median income is around $250k, with the average much
higher.  ML may be able to give you the same salary as you have
now for 18 months, time to build a business.  After that, you are
earning from your production only.  Its all up to you, your
ability to adapt to the business, your drive, your passion for the
business, and your work ethic.  If, after a few years, you are not
making 6 figures plus, you are doing something wrong.  PM
Blarmstrom after next week, he is getting ramped up and doing well, but
this week he is in on Vacation.

I actually almost took a job as an IR with Edward Jones out of College, but instead went the accounting route.  I really hate the work and regret not becoming an IR.  As for thinking too much, I would be thrilled to not do so much of it all day long.  I'd like to know what you mean though about thinking too much.  Can you give me an example from your experience?  I think what you mean is just sell to people and not try to be the all knowing god of financial planners.

I'd like to get started with Edward Jones.  Is there a better place for a noob to start?  150K a year is nice! 

Thanks for the replies, means a lot to me.

Remote is off base is my opinion.  The average rep is a good sales
pod but has little true thought behind their work.  Know more than
most others, which is not hard, and
be good at sales and you will do better.  But remember, the sales
part is harder.  Your accounting experience can only help
you.  Audit?  Good corp contacts.  Personal?  Good
personal contacts.  

Ok SOMEONE needs to tell him.  9 out of 10 people who come into
this business are fired within the first two years for not producing
enough.  How do you like your chances? 



Why do you want to start your own business?  Do you find it
logical to start a new business in a market that is completely
saturated already?  What will make your business different from
the millions of others that have failed?

Why do 9 out of 10 fail, in your opinion?  Sounds like a tough career at first, but if you make it, is very rewarding.  I envy you guys who have made it. 

9 out of 10 fail because they don't put the work in to succeed.  The only work that counts is being in front of clients or fighting to see clients (or prospective clients)

Your income is limited by your work ethic and your talent.  There are plenty of people who make well over $100,000 in their first year.  However, I only think that this is possible if you have lots of talent.  

If we assume that you don't have much talent, but are willing to work your ass off, there is no reason that you won't make $50,000 in your first year and $100,000 by your third year.  $250,000 in year 5-7 and ultimately $500,000.  On the other hand, if you have a strong work ethic and you have talent, your income is truly unlimited.  I know plenty of 7 figure producers.

Maybe 4+ out of 10 fail since they have no contacts or real work experience right out of college.

Maybe 2+ out of 10 fail since they can't focus on the job after sitting on a phone for a month and coming into industry with to much baggage (debt and other crap)...

Maybe 2-3 fail since they do not have the essential skills... 1. SALES!! 2. Communication 3. Trust (poor reputation) 4. Diverse knowledge of people, culture and professions 5. Ability to NETWORK

Maybe 1 is the winner since they are opposite of everything above...

This is not based on fact, but information on this board.. Anyone feel free to rip this apart.

Not I sir.

7GOD63,

Did you ever get a brokerage job?  Not taking a stab at you, seriously curious.

[quote=Scorpio]Ok SOMEONE needs to tell him.  9 out of 10 people who come into
this business are fired within the first two years for not producing
enough.  How do you like your chances? 

[/quote]

Scorpio is absolutely correct.  The most optimistic industry-wide figure that I’ve heard is that eight out of ten fail.

9 out of 10 people fail for various reasons.  This job, especially in the beginning, is full of rejection.  People will politely and rudely tell you to go to h#ll.  People will reject your ideas and even after they are your clients, it feels sometimes like herding a bunch of unruly cats.  The emotion toil of constant rejection and pressure from your broker dealer (assuming you are not an independent) is enough to break many people emotionally.  Until you grow a thick enough skin, every day in the first year is emotionally painful. 

Unlike your current occupation, where people come to you and are willing to pay you for your advice, in our occupation you need to be persistent without being a pest.  You need to chase people down and force them to listen to you.

The optimistic income figures that you get from recruiters from Jones and other companies is not always realistic depending on your demographic area.  They are generally averages or even figures from the top of the income curve.  You need to determine how much savings you are willing to see evaporate while you are in your first 3 years of struggling. Also as a "younger" person you might find some resistance in taking financial advice from your elderly clients.  As you are young (the same age as my child....I am old) I think I can offer you the vantage of hindsight and the perspective of an "older" person.  28 is on the edge of being middle aged to you......but still young to the 75 yr old client, unless you are a very mature 28.

That being said.....all the negative.  Once you get over the hump, this is a wonderful career.  You will have deep and satisfying relationships with your clients who you have helped achieve wealth and accomplish their goals.  They will refer you to their friends and families and the grind of the early years will be much less. You notice, I say much less.  It never goes away. 

Going independent in the beginning may be too hard for a new young broker. The suggestion that you continue with your CPA business and ease into the advisory business is a good one.  You already have credibility, I presume, with your CPA clients. 

Some great insights…I can’t really add too much.  I love the analogy about herding cats.  Somehow I’d never heard that one before.

I started young, but that was over a decade ago when I think it was easier to get started in your 20’s.  You could still easily build a book then by cold calling with stock ideas.

If you do, use every tool you can to build credibility.  Dress extremely conservatively and very neatly.  To make life simple I suggest make all your suits grey and blue with white shirts, and then add flair with unusual ties and cufflinks.  Always wear a suit, or at least a sportcoat if you do casual Fridays.   Find opportunities to volunteer with important charities in your community and use it as a chance to network.  Learn to play golf, well.  Find a local restaurant that is nice enough for a good business lunch and go there often enough that you are known to the staff and treated as a regular.   Drive a clean, conservative, but not overly expensive car.  (Keeps your expenses low too.)

Just a few random thoughts to add to the mix.

I picked up a $400,000 fee based account today (and closing on a $260,000 annuity at 5 pm), and I am wearing a polo and slacks.

Gotta love the bank.

[quote=BankFC]

I picked up a $400,000 fee based account today (and closing on a $260,000 annuity at 5 pm), and I am wearing a polo and slacks.

Gotta love the bank.[/quote]

I did $700,000 in fee-based thus far this week, without a suit, and without a bank taking 60% of my gross off the top.

Gotta love being free from the bank...

Haaaa, haaaaaa.. Joe as for the car.. I agree, but when I tell you my story and send you a picture you are going to laugh.. Keep costs down and 20k in the bank...

Bank: As for the job 86.4% there, the rest is the 7 and 6.6%. Very very close to being an apprentice with proper certifications.

GO POLO!!

Wow, the level 2 access is awesome! I never dreamed of having access to information like what is available.. Also for FREE, well sorta...

Does anyone here think the ability to Market is a great task for this industry??? I know it is since it goes hand and hand with sales, but curious about your opinion...

BankFC:

I picked up a $400,000 fee based account today (and closing on a $260,000 annuity at 5 pm), and I am wearing a polo and slacks.

Gotta love the bank.

----------------------------

Forget casual Fridays, I have clothing optional Fridays. One of the perks of being Indy. 

...ughh...the mental image...

I don't discount the value of a nice conservative suit with some prospects.  I have docker days and suit days, but I think I'll pass on clothing optional at this stage in my life.

Doberman, you still crack me up.

[quote=JCadieux] [quote=Scorpio]Ok SOMEONE needs to tell him.  9 out of 10 people who come into this business are fired within the first two years for not producing enough.  How do you like your chances? 
[/quote]

Scorpio is absolutely correct.  The most optimistic industry-wide figure that I’ve heard is that eight out of ten fail.

Hope this helps.

Happy Hunting!

[/quote]

Now THIS is a good post! Thanks JC...

I am not seeing that failure rate, infact the numbers are
reversed.  Maybe we are just better at picking advisors in our
office.

Right… If your picking better and developing then the management has to be better.

[quote=BankFC]

I picked up a $400,000 fee based account today (and closing on a $260,000 annuity at 5 pm), and I am wearing a polo and slacks.

Gotta love the bank.

[/quote]

You BETTER love the bank. You GIVE them 70% of YOUR money.

[quote=BankFC]

I picked up a $400,000 fee based account today (and closing on a $260,000 annuity at 5 pm), and I am wearing a polo and slacks.

Gotta love the bank.

"Shoot my office is in my home so there's days I work in sweats and a t-shirt if I dont' have meet"

dont you mean you work out of you trailer park? and that you sit on your tattered couch in your wife beater and ripped boxers, checking client accounts while drinking a natural light?

after all, you are originally from L.I right????

[quote=rightway]I am not seeing that failure rate, infact the numbers are
reversed.  Maybe we are just better at picking advisors in our
office.
[/quote]

You are correct.  The numbers change dramatically at the top firms.

The top-tier programs are very selective.  They also give better training and more  pay.

In fact, compensation is one of the top reasons that people leave “C” tier firms.  They bust their butts to make their numbers, only to find that they can’t live on the tiny payouts.  If they’re smart they’ll find a better firm.  If not, then they leave the business entirely.

I’m seeing more and more trainees changing programs after only 6 or 12 months because they aren’t getting the support or compensation they deserve.

Could someone give me a breakdown of Teir 1, 2, and 3 firms… what

characterizes them and a few examples of each?

[quote=blarmston]

“Shoot my office is in my home so there’s days I work in sweats and a t-shirt if I dont’ have meet”

dont you mean you work out of you trailer park? and that you sit on your tattered couch in your wife beater and ripped boxers, checking client accounts while drinking a natural light?

after all, you are originally from L.I right????

[quote=johnnieblack]Could someone give me a breakdown of Teir 1, 2, and 3 firms… what

characterizes them and a few examples of each?[/quote]

That question is enough to start a holy war on this board.

Without naming names, I believe that Tier one firms offer salaries, training and marketing support to their trainees.  Tier 3 firms give you a phone book and wish you luck.  Tier 2 falls somewhere in between.

Of course, everybody CLAIMS to be a tier one firm.

I'll GLADLY give the bank 60% of the revenue on a client I never would have met by not working at the bank.

If you are going to talk in terms of good deal/bad deal, then it's not the bank that's the problem.  As a BankFC, I REALIZE I am an employee of the bank, and I do the few corporate things that are required of me in exchange for unlimited access to the clients of the bank, the resources of the marketing dept, as well as the favorable reputation instantly afforded to me by being associated with a large community bank.

The real rip off is the wires.  My friends at ML with similar LOS get the same payout (around 40 percent, maybe SLIGHTLY higher, but not much at all), so they give ML (or insert whatever wirehouse you want here) 60% for what?  A bunch of structured products 99% of people don't want, a dual screen desk top, and and office.

I'm not harping on ML.  I truly liked working there.  I just took a objective look, and decided if some is going to take 60% of my money (let's not even go into wirehouse haircuts) I might as well get the most value for it.

Apples to apples, my 60% is paying for a lot more at a bank than it would at a wire.

[quote=JCadieux] [quote=johnnieblack]Could someone give me a breakdown of Teir 1, 2, and 3 firms... what
characterizes them and a few examples of each?[/quote]

That question is enough to start a holy war on this board.

[/quote]

Go for it.  Lets here it.

To answer the original question of how much can be made…



If you go to ML and somehow graduate their program, you will have 15
million in assets after two years.  Off of this you will do about
150,000/yr in production, and at that production level you will get
roughly 35% so your annual income is $52,500.  They want you to
practically kill yourself so that you can have a slim shot at making
50k a year.   Still interested? 

[quote=Scorpio]They want you to
practically kill yourself so that you can have a slim shot at making
50k a year.   Still interested? 

[/quote]

Scorpio.  You are absolutely correct.

If you bust your butt for 18 months you’ll have $15M before the salary goes away.

But you’re assuming that everybody stops there.

The average advisor with Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, Smith Barney or UBS makes between $200K and $300K per year.  They do that because the DON’T sit on their butts at any time.  Successful brokers balance their time between prospecting new clients, building referral networks and caring for existing customers.

If you’re the kind of person who plans to build a $15M book and then just coast along, then you’re in the wrong business.

Oh I agree completely.



I just meant that a person who graduates the program basically pulled
off the impossible, and their grand reward is to make significantly
below six figures for the next 3-4 years. 



The income isn’t as compelling as people make it seem, when you factor
in the probability of making it and realistic production figures. 




The original poster sounds like he’s got a decent job as an accountant
(I think), probably making upper 5 figures.  If he leaves to roll
the dice as a FA, he’ll take an initial pay cut during his
hell-on-earth life as a ML trainee.  Then if he’s lucky enough to
actually graduate he’ll be rewarded with a further paycut.  It
seems illogical for someone in his position to abandon their career to
try out as a broker, but I see firms entice people like this all the
time by waiving fake dollar signs in their face.    

[quote=johnnieblack]Could someone give me a breakdown of Teir 1, 2, and 3 firms... what
characterizes them and a few examples of each?[/quote]

Simple.  On a scale of 1 to 3, Morgan Stanley is 1, Ed Jones is 4, Goldman is 2, and everyone else is 3.  You can argue all you want about 2 down, but number is 1 is indisputable - I stake my name on that (in fact, I have staked my own sense of self worth on that belief). 

[quote=JCadieux]

[quote=johnnieblack]Could someone give me a breakdown of Teir 1, 2, and 3 firms… what

characterizes them and a few examples of each?[/quote]

That question is enough to start a holy war on this board.
[/quote]

Here we go!  Everybody hang on!

I guess MS’s a 1 because you can charge 3% for a mutual fund wrap acct. You CAN make a butt load of money at that rate. What I find interesting about MS is that Discover seems to be the best part of their business. One more shot - Blackrock didn’t seem to think MS was better than ML… Sorry about your career Mike.

read on this forum - http://forums.registeredrep.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1565&amp ;KW=nsm&PN=0&TPN=3