Hours a week... seriousely, no exaggerations
I’m in the process of interviewing for a spot at the local MSSB. I went to a career orientation and they said to expect working insane hours the first few year - every night + weekends. Seriously, how much of that is for real and how much is just to scare the lazy asses? What’s a typical schedule going to look like for the first few years at MSSB and how much of it is actually mandatory?
The only thing that is mandatory is the production expectations. If you can do $500m in your first year working 1 hour per week, MSSB won’t care. What you were told in orientation is what it typically takes for a newbie to meet production expectations. Plan on working very hard or getting very lucky as these are the two paths to making it.
BTW, don't plan on getting lucky.Two-
Yes, many of us worked pretty long hours early on. But many of those hours are different types of hours than you might think. For example, many of my evening hours were spent at home writing thank-you cards, updating my contact management system, planning my day, researching investments, etc. Saturdays were spent prospecting. I would work a few hours on Sunday doing “evening” work (as outlined above).
I worked more hours than in my previous career, but had MUCH more control over them. For example, I often ate breakfast and dinner with my family (never did previously due to commute), but would do work every night after kids went to bed. Many of my evenings are currently networking/board meetings/appointments. Not a lot of “heavy lifting”. I would say (4 years in) I average two evenings of work each week. Some weeks it four nights, some it’s zero. But I also eat lunch with my family about 3 days a week. NEVER did that before.
So it’s all relative to what you are trying to accomplish and how hard you want to work. Honestly, if it were not for some of the networking and board meetings, I would rarely work nights.
count on working 12 hour days monday thru thursday and 6 hours on saturday if you’re serious about the business. without knowing anything about you, i hope that you have connections this is an incredibly difficult business to start from scratch
that doesn’t sound that bad… so first few years i imagine work consists primarily of prospecting. is that strictly (or mostly) cold calling? what’s a cold call like at a place like MSSB? I work at an independent “boutique” so our calls consist of pitching a stock right out the gate… not so at MSSB i assume?
like 8am-6pm 5 days a week? that’s very reasonable.
ive got to say 12 hours mon-fri and 6 on the weekends does sound excessive. i do have “connections” in the sense that i know a lot of rich people, but i have no intention of being “that guy” that hits the up for money all the time. I’d prefer not to handle my friends’/acquaintances’ money. So… should I not bother?
Not until you learn to spell "seriously", that will be critical point. Good luck!ive got to say 12 hours mon-fri and 6 on the weekends does sound excessive. i do have “connections” in the sense that i know a lot of rich people, but i have no intention of being “that guy” that hits the up for money all the time. I’d prefer not to handle my friends’/acquaintances’ money. So… should I not bother?
66-70 hours a week sounds excessive to you? For real??
Wow. Well, good luck.
1) Most people don't work horrendously long hours. Most people fail out of the business. 2) Do you know any people who started a very successful business? Did they put in very long hours and make sacrifice's while they were starting their business? You won't succeed unless you have a business owner's mentality. It's ok if you don't, but this would then be the wrong career.I’m in the process of interviewing for a spot at the local MSSB. I went to a career orientation and they said to expect working insane hours the first few year - every night + weekends. Seriously, how much of that is for real and how much is just to scare the lazy asses? What’s a typical schedule going to look like for the first few years at MSSB and how much of it is actually mandatory?
humn, I think of this job as 24-7. =)
But it is not a job, its a lifestyle and a passion.
As far as office hours... as we used to say to new ameriprise recruits... only financial advisors take a 30 hour a week job and stretch into 60 hours. dont get into the mindset of office hours... most of it is bs time if you are not doing.
i guarantee you, if you have 20 hours a week of face time with people... you will be at the top of the game. As far as my wirehouse experience... no one gave a hoot where you were if you were producing.
if you are producing 250k first year standing in the middles of times square... by all means.
i use “office time” to denote time spent on the phone cold calling. i think thats where the discrepancy is - i guess you guys use other methods of prospecting that sort of blur the line between time spent working and not working. so, how do you get clients? i hate to get dragged into doing too much “networking”, it just feels like harassing the people you know and trying to meet new people under false pretenses.
Pleasing methods versus pleasing results Read "The Common Denominator of Success"i use “office time” to denote time spent on the phone cold calling. i think thats where the discrepancy is - i guess you guys use other methods of prospecting that sort of blur the line between time spent working and not working. so, how do you get clients? i hate to get dragged into doing too much “networking”, it just feels like harassing the people you know and trying to meet new people under false pretenses.
Spell seriously correctly and work 60-70 hours per week and you might have a chance. I’m working 7 to 7 or 8 during the week and Saturday half day.
I saw a bio on the guys who started ben and jerrys, they worked 16 hour days when they first started. You don't have to work a lot but you will fail. Anyone who built a business had to work hard to get it started.
Do you realize that you used poor grammar in your attempt to criticize poor spelling?Spell seriously correctly and work 60-70 hours per week and you might have a chance. I’m working 7 to 7 or 8 during the week and Saturday half day.
i think this isa little bit of a bold statement. not the 12 hour days part, i agree 7 to 7 or even 7-9 1-2 nights a week isn't far fetched. However, building a business from scratch is difficult but not impossible. Every business is hard to build but if your persistant you'll be fine. You'll feel more successful building a book from scratch rather than taking hand me down clients. At least thats how it was for me.count on working 12 hour days monday thru thursday and 6 hours on saturday if you’re serious about the business. without knowing anything about you, i hope that you have connections this is an incredibly difficult business to start from scratch
IMHO, it’s not about how many hours you work, but what you do with those hours. Some people just have the “it” factor. UNless you are some sort of cold-calling machine, msot people are not prospecting 12 hours a day after the first year or so. It’s just not logical. When are you meeting clients? When are you networking? When are you talking to CPA’s and developing relationships? Yes, there are some out there (i.e. BondGuy) that can build awesome businesses cold calling and not knowing the people on the other end of the phone. Most of us don’t do that. Personally, I just don’t want to. I get no satisfaction out of it whatsoever. Ultimately, this is a relationship business. The more relationships you can foster, the better you will do. Networking works, but only when done the right way, and not as your ONLY method. Networking should be started from day 1, so that those relationships start to pay off in years 3,4,5+. Networking should not be a substitute for cold calling. I think that’s where people fall down. Networking is relationship building. Cold calling is selling. You have to strike a balance between different methods early on, with an emphasis on direct selling methods (cold calling, cold walking, seminars), while building relationships for the long haul. But you need those quick early sales to keep yourself solvent and employed.
I worked 60+ hours per week for the first two years.
I now work 45-50 hours per week.You gettin advice about working hard from fools that post on message boards during business hours. Now that’s funny right there.
Dear Lord there is a God.
Mandatory - usually 8:30-5pm M-F with an occasional mandatory work night..... Suggested - 2-3 nights per week till at least 7pm.....and 1 day out of every weekend.... Reality - If you are bringing in accounts and finding success from putting in many hours, you will want to work more and more and more and more.........If you are spending a ton of time in the office and not exceeding your goals, you will quickly get frustrated and stay on until they tell you that it's not working...... Forget about the hours.......think about how you will bring in assets......I don't know the current goals, but let's call it 25 million in 3 years......When you decide how you will prospect.....and when you see how successful you are......you will either love what you are doing and make it......or you will grow to hate it and move on.... Good Luck......I’m in the process of interviewing for a spot at the local MSSB. I went to a career orientation and they said to expect working insane hours the first few year - every night + weekends. Seriously, how much of that is for real and how much is just to scare the lazy asses? What’s a typical schedule going to look like for the first few years at MSSB and how much of it is actually mandatory?
which is the pleasing method and which yields the pleasing results?
The pleasing methods are the things that the failures do. Read the “book”. Google it. It is a 5 minute read.
I worked in my office 12 hours yesterday and today (7am-7pm) then spent the rest of the evening out socializing with prospects/clients til about 9pm. I’m just starting out (2nd year in the biz), so that’s a pretty typical day for me.
I'll try to leave work earlier on Fridays, but I if I have dinner plans or something downtown where my office is I'll work til 5/6ish. Another day another $1 I guess... although right now it feels like more days than dollars :)So what does your 12 hour day typically consist of?
So what does your 12 hour day typically consist of?
Nobody works 12 hour days unless they are first starting or have appointments all day.
There was a great example of a schedule on here somewhere.. I will try to find it..Wow haha, is that really what I have to look forward to for the first couple of years? 12 hours of cold calling with a few pee breaks sprinkled throughout the day? I mean, that’s pretty much all I do now but I figured that was only because I’m at a sh*tbag no name “boutique” firm. I bet the cold calls at least are a bit different… we pitch a stock & try to get them into a trade right off the bat. At a wire you guys do what, try to set up an appointment? Portfolio review? Something like that right?
[quote=Squash1]
7:30 AM - read papers - IBD - WSJ print or online, as you drink coffee & listen to morning call, think about a strategy you might want to use for any assets you have in. If you have an investment "policy" that you use, or matrix - rely on that as your filter. If you don't spend some time on a weekend or late at night to come up with somethin. 8:00 AM Pick up phone, start dialing cold calls 8:50 AM Stretch, get coffee, check market. . 9:00 AM - Pick up phone, start dialing cold calls 9:50 AM pee, Get coffee 10:00 AM Ifyou have no appointment - pick up phone start dialing cold calls 10:50 - drink water, have snack 11:00 Pick up phone, start dialing cold calls 11:50 - Heat up the lunch you brought in, listen to noon calls, analyst info Read and reply to e-mail. 1:00 If you have an appointment, go on it, If not.....Pick up phone, start dialing cold calls 1:50 Check with assistant to see if there are any missing paperwork items....etc that need to be dealt with, grab mail. DON"T READ IT yet. 2:00 Pick up phone, start dialing cold calls 2:50 Scan mail, - toss junk. Put things to follow up on or read aside. 3:00 Pick up phone, start dialing cold calls 3:50 pee, afternoon snack.....check market close info 4:00 Pick up phone, start dialing cold calls 4:50 - check e-mail, reply, drink something - coffee or water 5:00 Pick up phone, start dialing cold calls 5:50 - eat something for dinner, scan headlines, read mail. Think about what you might want to put in for trades for market open. Call any clients you have an pitch that. 6:30 Pick up phone, start dialing cold calls 8:00 Leave after setting up for tomorrow This was provided by TAKINGNAMES for a newbie at a wire... As you can see there is some down time [/quote] First of all: Are you a wall street warrior? Or a chop shot(isn't that the old name for "boutique firms") Second. The first 30 minutes is set-up, 8-11:50 is calls with 30 minutes of breaks(say 45 minutes) so 3 hours of actuall dialing. 12-1pm is lunch and misc(no actual work) 1pm-550pm 4 breaks at 15 minutes is an hour, so 4 hours of actuall calling if no appointments 550-630pm Eat(no actual work) 6:30-7:30 calls 7:30-8pm set up for tomorrow. So of things defined as work it is 8 hours of calling or appts.I wouldn’t say chop shot because were buying mostly stocks of very reputable companies and wherever the owners/managing partners of the firms are pulling they recommendations from, they tend to do pretty well. No boiler room type situation. Yes, similar to the brokerage firm on wallstreet warriors but bigger and more professional.
I wouldn’t say chop shop because were buying mostly stocks of reputable companies and wherever the owners/managing partners of the firms are pulling their recommendations from, they tend to do pretty well. No boiler room type situation. Yes, similar to the brokerage firm on wallstreet warriors but bigger and more professional.
[quote=Squash1]
7:30 AM - read papers - IBD - WSJ print or online, as you drink coffee & listen to morning call, think about a strategy you might want to use for any assets you have in. If you have an investment "policy" that you use, or matrix - rely on that as your filter. If you don't spend some time on a weekend or late at night to come up with somethin. 8:00 AM Pick up phone, start dialing cold calls 8:50 AM Stretch, get coffee, check market. . 9:00 AM - Pick up phone, start dialing cold calls 9:50 AM pee, Get coffee 10:00 AM Ifyou have no appointment - pick up phone start dialing cold calls 10:50 - drink water, have snack 11:00 Pick up phone, start dialing cold calls 11:50 - Heat up the lunch you brought in, listen to noon calls, analyst info Read and reply to e-mail. 1:00 If you have an appointment, go on it, If not.....Pick up phone, start dialing cold calls 1:50 Check with assistant to see if there are any missing paperwork items....etc that need to be dealt with, grab mail. DON"T READ IT yet. 2:00 Pick up phone, start dialing cold calls 2:50 Scan mail, - toss junk. Put things to follow up on or read aside. 3:00 Pick up phone, start dialing cold calls 3:50 pee, afternoon snack.....check market close info 4:00 Pick up phone, start dialing cold calls 4:50 - check e-mail, reply, drink something - coffee or water 5:00 Pick up phone, start dialing cold calls 5:50 - eat something for dinner, scan headlines, read mail. Think about what you might want to put in for trades for market open. Call any clients you have an pitch that. 6:30 Pick up phone, start dialing cold calls 8:00 Leave after setting up for tomorrow This was provided by TAKINGNAMES for a newbie at a wire... As you can see there is some down time [/quote] This is awesome. I have a similar timeblocked day but think I'll change to this. I was doing 2 hr blocks of cold calling with 30 minutes of break afterwards. The schedule posted above is 5:1 cold call to break whereas I was 4:1 cold call to break, and I feel that I won't get burned out as often by calling for 50 min instead of 2 hours.i can’t believe TAKINGNAMES takes a piss during the workday. Weak.
[quote=Moraen]i can’t believe TAKINGNAMES takes a piss during the workday. Weak.[/quote]
Seriously like Wallstreet warriors? Those guys where hacks, why would you build a position in one stock.. just stupid..I wouldn’t say chop shot because were buying mostly stocks of very reputable companies and wherever the owners/managing partners of the firms are pulling they recommendations from, they tend to do pretty well. No boiler room type situation. Yes, similar to the brokerage firm on wallstreet warriors but bigger and more professional.
i agree. we build multiple large positions, and trade around them as opportunities present themselves. the place i work at is much better and bigger than that place, but similar in structure; a bunch of pee-on prospector and openers (about 30-40) getting paid peanuts and a few brokers (about 10) trading the accounts, interacting with clients and making big money. that’s what i meant by the comparison.
I always wondered what those "Boiler room" guys who were doing the hard calling got paid?
What kind of big money?well, payout is about 60% for senior brokers, and the top earners at my firm are taking home around $50,000.00 a month after fees (but before taxes) consistently. but, of course, for every senior broker there are 3-4 guys cold calling and opening accounts for a few hundred bucks a week, enabling him to have a steady flow of new clients at a minimal cost. i am one of these slaves.
[quote=gethardgetraw][quote=Squash1]
7:30 AM - read papers - IBD - WSJ print or online, as you drink coffee & listen to morning call, think about a strategy you might want to use for any assets you have in. If you have an investment "policy" that you use, or matrix - rely on that as your filter. If you don't spend some time on a weekend or late at night to come up with somethin. 8:00 AM Pick up phone, start dialing cold calls 8:50 AM Stretch, get coffee, check market. . 9:00 AM - Pick up phone, start dialing cold calls 9:50 AM pee, Get coffee 10:00 AM Ifyou have no appointment - pick up phone start dialing cold calls 10:50 - drink water, have snack 11:00 Pick up phone, start dialing cold calls 11:50 - Heat up the lunch you brought in, listen to noon calls, analyst info Read and reply to e-mail. 1:00 If you have an appointment, go on it, If not.....Pick up phone, start dialing cold calls 1:50 Check with assistant to see if there are any missing paperwork items....etc that need to be dealt with, grab mail. DON"T READ IT yet. 2:00 Pick up phone, start dialing cold calls 2:50 Scan mail, - toss junk. Put things to follow up on or read aside. 3:00 Pick up phone, start dialing cold calls 3:50 pee, afternoon snack.....check market close info 4:00 Pick up phone, start dialing cold calls 4:50 - check e-mail, reply, drink something - coffee or water 5:00 Pick up phone, start dialing cold calls 5:50 - eat something for dinner, scan headlines, read mail. Think about what you might want to put in for trades for market open. Call any clients you have an pitch that. 6:30 Pick up phone, start dialing cold calls 8:00 Leave after setting up for tomorrow This was provided by TAKINGNAMES for a newbie at a wire... As you can see there is some down time [/quote] This is awesome. I have a similar timeblocked day but think I'll change to this. I was doing 2 hr blocks of cold calling with 30 minutes of break afterwards. The schedule posted above is 5:1 cold call to break whereas I was 4:1 cold call to break, and I feel that I won't get burned out as often by calling for 50 min instead of 2 hours. [/quote] It's doable and not something to break a sweat about. You just have to focus. Don't let anyone break your focus. Hey Morean...do they let you piss standing up?He’s back…
[quote=twoeyeguy]Wow haha, is that really what I have to look forward to for the first couple of years? 12 hours of cold calling with a few pee breaks sprinkled throughout the day? I mean, that’s pretty much all I do now but I figured that was only because I’m at a sh*tbag no name “boutique” firm. I bet the cold calls at least are a bit different… we pitch a stock & try to get them into a trade right off the bat. At a wire you guys do what, try to set up an appointment? Portfolio review? Something like that right?[/quote]
Read the post 500 Day War by the Judge. Don't waste time on portfolio review calls. You'll be wasting time.This was the rest of the post about the hours: As you fill your schedule with appointments, analysis, trading - block out the time so that you always leave marketing time for about 1/2 to 1/3 of your time. As your practice matures, it will become easy to stop doing the things that made you successful in the first place. DON"T DO IT. Don't ever let a day go by when you don't spend at least two hours on some marketing activity.Wow haha, is that really what I have to look forward to for the first couple of years? 12 hours of cold calling with a few pee breaks sprinkled throughout the day? I mean, that’s pretty much all I do now but I figured that was only because I’m at a sh*tbag no name “boutique” firm. I bet the cold calls at least are a bit different… we pitch a stock & try to get them into a trade right off the bat. At a wire you guys do what, try to set up an appointment? Portfolio review? Something like that right?
Always do analysis at nights or on weekends, not during business hours.
Read the post the JUDGE made on this forum called "500 day war" until it is a mantra you can breathe. I'm well past the 500 days, and keep the 500 day war printed out and I look at it every day.
Don't let other brokers eat your time talking about THEIR pet ideas. Keep your ego out of things and DON't compete with anyone on investment ideas.
Block out wholesalers from your office (have your investment policy handy and when they ask for your time tell them you want an insured muni portfolio - or something that will hit one of your needs for a client. If they don't have it, tell them you have an appointment.
Don't let the operational side of the business suck you in.
[quote=Squash1]…2:00 Pick up phone, start dialing cold calls
2:50 Scan mail, - toss junk. Put things to follow up on or read aside. 3:00 Pick up phone, start dialing cold calls...[/quote]
[quote=Moraen]i can't believe TAKINGNAMES takes a piss during the workday. Weak.[/quote]
Why does he have to toss his junk at 2:50?
Can't he wait until he gets home or find a girlfriend.
That is why you failed out of the easiest place on earth… Sad actually…
[quote=Takingnames]
Hey Morean...do they let you piss standing up? [/quote]How is it possible that you didn't take what I said as a joke?
I was more impressed than anything. But no, my wife tells me that I have to squat when I take a piss.
I really wish there was a sarcasm button.
[quote=Moraen] [quote=Takingnames]
Hey Morean...do they let you piss standing up? [/quote]How is it possible that you didn't take what I said as a joke?
I was more impressed than anything. But no, my wife tells me that I have to squat when I take a piss.
I really wish there was a sarcasm button.
[/quote] How is it that you didn't take what I said as a joke? Feel the love.
[quote=Takingnames] [quote=Moraen] [quote=Takingnames]
Hey Morean…do they let you piss standing up?
[/quote]How is it possible that you didn’t take what I said as a joke?I was more impressed than anything. But no, my wife tells me that I have to squat when I take a piss. I really wish there was a sarcasm button.[/quote]
How is it that you didn’t take what I said as a joke? Feel the love.
[/quote]
Lol! Touche!
Piss breaks are for pikers. Buy some Depends and make it a real work day.
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