Geographic Regions

I am a midwesterner.  But I have clients from coast to coast so I
am not sure where my office is has much to do with my business.
  

I’m looking to start in Texas - but understand there are a zillion EJ reps in the area.

[quote=Broker24]Just curious what geographic region everyone is in, and how they feel that

plays into ease of prospecting. I am in New England, and I find most

people are pretty cold upfront (other than referrals). So cold prospecting

is very tough (cold calling, doorknocking, etc.). I find it virtually

impossible to pitch product over the phone. Everyone seems too smart

for their own good (or too smart for me!).



Just some thoughts…[/quote]

I lived (and worked) on the East Coast for quite a while.  Now I’m back in the Midwest.  I have clients all over the place.  Folks out your way are a lot more crusty.  But, back here and in the South people will “maybe” you to death because they don’t want to say no outright.  So it has its advantages and disadvantages.

In SoCal, where everyone is wealthy (from real estate, etc) and

COMPLACENT… Its like pulling teeth for them to come into the

office from their stroll on the beach… Of course that is a

generalization, but all in all…



Sometimes its frustrating but the only option is to keep on 'em

until they give in…

n/east. Funny, when I started (Lehman Bros), we were told to NEVER meet a client personally, and were told to call specifically NC,SC,FL,TX,IL and then west coast. Times change, thats for sure.

I am in the Southeast…

[quote=blarmston]In SoCal, where everyone is wealthy (from real estate, etc) and
COMPLACENT... Its like pulling teeth for them to come into the
office from their stroll on the beach... Of course that is a
generalization, but all in all...

Sometimes its frustrating but the only option is to keep on 'em
until they give in... [/quote]

I lived in So cal for quite some time and there is quite a bit of money there but it seemed to me that most people were leveraged to the hilt. I lived in Newport Beach so maybe that is why.

Ahhh. Newport Beach… Good times up there… Sharkeez… Blue Beat… The

Alley…

I used to see a girl who lived on Sea Shell Lane, right on the beach… NICE…



And youre right- alot of people have the 1.4M home, a 1.3 M mortgage and

the 3-series Benz, but have 3K to their name…

Midwest…Mellencamp country…

Upstate Maine on the Canadian border.

Southeast.

Top of the Rockies in a Ski town in Colorado. Clients all over the U.S. but I cannot tell you how they respond to a cold call I have not done it in almost ten years.

I would not want to try to start a book cold calling. Good luck if you can!  

Northwest, rural retirement area..  agricultural and recreational based economy with wealthy retirees.  Cold calling on the phone is a lead balloon.  Face to face contacts and cold walking (aka door knocking) worked very well for me. 

My business comes from referrals as well. I haven't made a cold call or door knocked in years.

[quote=Greenbacks]

Top of the Rockies in a Ski town in Colorado. Clients all over the U.S. but I cannot tell you how they respond to a cold call I have not done it in almost ten years.

I would not want to try to start a book cold calling. Good luck if you can!  

I am not in Summit county. But I can tell you when it snows the clients go skiing

And so do I

I have not found a season I do not like!

Northeast

Lots of people with money which we need to pay the highest in the nation property taxes.

Top of the food chain when camping, swimming in lakes or ocean.

Cleanest beaches in the country.

Biggest area of undeveloped, protected land on the east coast between Boston and Myrtle Bch starts ten miles from my front door and sits atop on of the world's largest underground fresh water supplies. This water bubbles up to create clean wilderness rivers. Yeah, hard to believe that it could be NJ.

Most snow changes to rain before we get hit, ocean effect. Still, we got a little last night. Good skiing about three hours north.

NE business is all I know. I prospected Fl for a while. I thought that was tough.

[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=Greenbacks]

Top of the Rockies in a Ski town in Colorado. Clients all over the U.S. but I cannot tell you how they respond to a cold call I have not done it in almost ten years.

I would not want to try to start a book cold calling. Good luck if you can!  

[/quote]

Man I keep thinking how cool it would be to have an office in Frisco....
[/quote]

Just don't call it Frisco.  SAN Francisco or The City.   

[quote=babbling looney][quote=joedabrkr] [quote=Greenbacks]

Top of the Rockies in a Ski town in Colorado. Clients all over the U.S. but I cannot tell you how they respond to a cold call I have not done it in almost ten years.

I would not want to try to start a book cold calling. Good luck if you can!  

[/quote]

Man I keep thinking how cool it would be to have an office in Frisco....
[/quote]

Just don't call it Frisco.  SAN Francisco or The City.   

Why would you want to have an office in the foothills when you can have an office in a wonderful strip mall in the burbs of St. Louis like me?

Pacific Northwest prospects: don’t mess with me, man. I grew up somewhere else in the country, and managed to make it here and survive. Stay off my wagon trail, I’ll call you if I’m interested.

[quote=Spaceman Spiff]

Why would you want to have an office in the foothills when you can have an office in a wonderful strip mall in the burbs of St. Louis like me?

Vegas!! 340 days of sun a year, no state income tax, more silicone than LA, and free-flowin alcohol, what more can ya ask for.

...and to answer your question, I'm not sure if I EVER cold-called someone.  I've stopped in and visited a few business owners, but in general, I've been blessed (and consider myself lucky) to work from a referral-based angle pretty much from day one.  When I moved to the retail side of the business, I'd been a trust dept. investment manager for about nine years, so my rookie status was atypical.  Thus, bank employees were probably more comfortable sending referrals and helping me grow my business.  I also come from a local family with a good reputation and I think that's also been good for my business.

When I went independent in summer 2005, it was the CLIENTS who really took ownership of what I was trying to do and sent me a ton of referrals.  I also get some word of mouth advertising.  A new $235K rollover prospect today told me that he'd heard me on the radio and asked his insurance agent if he thought I could help him.  I guess I'm at a stage in my career where my reputation is sufficient for business to come in without a lot of effort.  That being said, I also understand that complacency kills, so I work hard developing client relationships and taking care of those I've brought on over the years.

I know, I know...long post and no help on cold-calling.  I almost cleared the whole thing a couple of times, but I thought you deserved to know that  what success I've had came mostly from a different source, which unfortunately, isn't a realistic option for many.

I feel for those of you building a business from scratch by cold-calling.  In my world, that looks like a tough way to make a living, although many before us have made it work successfully.  At the same time, If you can make it work, there should be nothing in this business that is out of reach for you.

I'll apologize for the quality of this post...it's been a long (but thankfully fruitful) day and it's not over yet...back to the salt mines...

[quote=BondGuy]

Northeast

Lots of people with money which we need to pay the highest in the nation property taxes.

Top of the food chain when camping, swimming in lakes or ocean.

Cleanest beaches in the country.

Biggest area of undeveloped, protected land on the east coast between Boston and Myrtle Bch starts ten miles from my front door and sits atop on of the world's largest underground fresh water supplies. This water bubbles up to create clean wilderness rivers. Yeah, hard to believe that it could be NJ.

Most snow changes to rain before we get hit, ocean effect. Still, we got a little last night. Good skiing about three hours north.

NE business is all I know. I prospected Fl for a while. I thought that was tough.

[/quote]

Why would you want to work by undeveloped land?  And I disagree, I'm from the SE, all the NE people are moving here for our clean beaches (and lower taxes).

[quote=entrylevelFA][quote=BondGuy]

Northeast

Lots of people with money which we need to pay the highest in the nation property taxes.

Top of the food chain when camping, swimming in lakes or ocean.

Cleanest beaches in the country.

Biggest area of undeveloped, protected land on the east coast between Boston and Myrtle Bch starts ten miles from my front door and sits atop on of the world's largest underground fresh water supplies. This water bubbles up to create clean wilderness rivers. Yeah, hard to believe that it could be NJ.

Most snow changes to rain before we get hit, ocean effect. Still, we got a little last night. Good skiing about three hours north.

NE business is all I know. I prospected Fl for a while. I thought that was tough.

[/quote]

Why would you want to work by undeveloped land?  And I disagree, I'm from the SE, all the NE people are moving here for our clean beaches (and lower taxes).

[/quote]

Did you miss the New Jersey part of the post? In the three county area sounding my house there are 1.5 million people. Lots of them with M-U-N-Y. 10 miles to west is Philadelphia. Look it up, it's a big city. 10 miles to my east is the undeveloped land. Except we don't call it undeveloped land. We call it by it's name, The Pinelands National Reserve. And we use it for recreation. The best part is that you can boat and swim in pristine, just bubbled up from the aquifer, water without worrying about gators, poisonous snakes, bull sharks or other top of the food chain predators. Camping can be done with out worrying about Bears, wolves or other predators. It's the big outdoors without the wildlife threats.

People are moving to the SE for the temperate temperatures, not the beaches. Along the east coast NJ is the hands down winner in the clean beach catagory. Because tourism is such a big industry for NJ the state has invested billions of dollars in beach replenishment. A healthy part of that budget goes to insure highest in the nation water quality. In fact, one of the reasons dirty water in Nj makes national headlines is NJ is one of the few states that actually tests water quality. In season it tests the water quality at every beach everyday along it's entire coastline. Beaches are closed if the water fails to meet standards. During the beach season most of the beaches along NJ's entire 127 mile coastline are swept and cleaned everyday. Outside of a few beaches in MD and Fl, no state does this. Nor do they test water quality. Fact is, outside of NJ and a few other places we have no way of knowing how clean the water is.

Beaches in both SE and SW FL are not nearly as nice or as clean. Same goes for the beaches of, of all places, the Outer Banks of NC. In fact on my last trip to Rodanthe I left early because the beach was disgusting dirty. Personally I don't want to fish or fly kites on a beach so littered with trash that I can't find a clean place ot sit down. Further south in Hatteras, a little better, but still dirty. I pointed Homer the motorhome NW and finished out the vaca trip at Raystown Lake central Pa. 

The SE along with the rest of the country has got us beat on taxes. Lawmakers are working on a 20% rebate or something similar. We'll see how this works out. Still, it takes a lot of money to live here. Hmmm, Morgan Stanley's top producer works in NJ. My firm has over two dozen million dollar plus producers working in NJ. Go figure.

Nothing like Beach Haven on Long Beach Island on the Jersey Shore…

[quote=BondGuy]

People are moving to the SE for the temperate temperatures, not the beaches. Along the east coast NJ is the hands down winner in the clean beach catagory. ........Beaches in both SE and SW FL are not nearly as nice or as clean.  [/quote]

Come on, Bondguy, I agree with much of what you've said here, but I've got family on the NJ S.E. shore and have been going there all my life. There's just no comparison between NJ beaches and the Southeast. None, zip, zero, nada. In fact, fair or not, ask the average American what comes to mind when they hear the words "New Jersey" and "beaches", they're likely to answer "medical waste".

The majority of my clients are transplants from the Northeast and Midwest and almost to the last one they'll tell you they came here for the ocean and the beautiful beaches. Now, if you want some Buick sized mosquitos or some alligators, I have some spares

DESTIN, Florida is the king of all beaches!



The fun thing about NE beaches is the fact that Florida beaches are deserted come May… Once you already have a few months at the beach people want to stay inside by the AC. NJ SE shore is nice. Actually most beaches are nice, but once you get past CT it gets rocky.



Bondguy you seem like a happy guy with all those positives. I also enjoy New England. Would not mind a few more months of warmer weather, but I do enjoy what we have.

[quote=AirForce]DESTIN, Florida is the king of all beaches!
[/quote]

Ugh, just got a chill at the mention of the name. Had a bad experience with an RB-8 there, but I suppose I shouldn't hold it against the beach. 

[quote=mikebutler222][quote=BondGuy]

People are moving to the SE for the temperate temperatures, not the beaches. Along the east coast NJ is the hands down winner in the clean beach catagory. ........Beaches in both SE and SW FL are not nearly as nice or as clean.  [/quote]

Come on, Bondguy, I agree with much of what you've said here, but I've got family on the NJ S.E. shore and have been going there all my life. There's just no comparison between NJ beaches and the Southeast. None, zip, zero, nada. In fact, fair or not, ask the average American what comes to mind when they hear the words "New Jersey" and "beaches", they're likely to answer "medical waste".

The majority of my clients are transplants from the Northeast and Midwest and almost to the last one they'll tell you they came here for the ocean and the beautiful beaches. Now, if you want some Buick sized mosquitos or some alligators, I have some spares

[/quote]

Sounds like you and I are in the same market!

[quote=blarmston]Nothing like Beach Haven on Long Beach Island on the Jersey Shore...[/quote]

Absolutely! Always a great place. And go one Island north to Island Beach State Park and you have 10 miles of undeveloped beach. Both LBI and IBSP are seperated from the mainland by Barnegat Bay. Barnegat (Burning Place in Dutch, or so i'm told) is a 40 mile long bay good for anything water bourne. Fish in the morning, sail in the afternoon once the dependable SW winds kick. Windless, darn, break out the sea kayaks and explore the sedges. There is a reason NJ is one of the biggest boating markets in the country.

How far SE are we talking?  I lived in VA Beach for three years and couldn’t go swimming several times due to unsafe amounts of fecal matter along the coastline.  I’m from Maine - pristine coastline.  People move south because the water is warm enough to actaully swim in not because it’s cleaner. 

MikeB clean out your PM folder, I can't reply to you.

Further south than VA Beach.  The water ain't clear, but it sure ain't sewage.  I'd eat anything caught in the water by our city...it's that clean.

[quote=mikebutler222][quote=BondGuy]

People are moving to the SE for the temperate temperatures, not the beaches. Along the east coast NJ is the hands down winner in the clean beach catagory. ........Beaches in both SE and SW FL are not nearly as nice or as clean.  [/quote]

Come on, Bondguy, I agree with much of what you've said here, but I've got family on the NJ S.E. shore and have been going there all my life. There's just no comparison between NJ beaches and the Southeast. None, zip, zero, nada.

I agree. After travelling to many if not most of the beaches along the east coast none are as nice as NJ. Almost all our recreation involves being on the water and/or being on the beach (Catamarran racing for example).

Not counted in above statement are beaches along the Redneck Riviera or Padre Island. We haven't gotten there yet, so I'll let you know.

In fact, fair or not, ask the average American what comes to mind when they hear the words "New Jersey" and "beaches", they're likely to answer "medical waste".

How about that? To find medical waste you actually have to look for it. Not only does NJ look, but when they find it they publicize it. Full disclosure. Jersey is one of the few states that cleans its beaches and extensively checks water quality. Interesting how many people draw the wrong conclusion from that effort.

So how clean is the water on your beach?

The majority of my clients are transplants from the Northeast and Midwest and almost to the last one they'll tell you they came here for the ocean and the beautiful beaches. Now, if you want some Buick sized mosquitos or some alligators, I have some spares

The mosquito is the Jersey state bird. But the far more painful experience is the Greenhead fly. Like mosquitos, it's only the females that bite. Absolutely agree that the SE has some beautiful beaches. And who can argue with that ocean? Yet, the water quality is unknown. Jersey closes beaches because of runoff contamination after heavy rain. Is NJ the only place where runoff presents a risk? In case you're wondering, the answer is no. NJ is one of the few states that proactively protects swimmers. As far as clean beaches go, I've yet to find anything as clean as Island State Park in NJ.

Then there's the usability of the beaches for swimming. In SW FL, Sanibel Island area, too many Bull Sharks around to comfortably swim or kayak. Of course it's the Caloosahatchee River mouth that is the major attraction for the big fish. Move inland an it's the reptiles that call for caution. SE Fl and it's Hammerheads and Bulls. Keys ,Bulls, whites and Hammerheads. Georgetown thru VA Bch, Bulls. This doesn't keep us out of the water, NJ has sharks too. Just much less of a factor in Jersey.

[quote=entrylevelFA]

MikeB clean out your PM folder, I can't reply to you.

Further south than VA Beach.  The water ain't clear, but it sure ain't sewage.  I'd eat anything caught in the water by our city...it's that clean.

[/quote]

My biggest complaint with the Outer Banks was the condition of the beaches. Trash strewn is the only way to describe it. Even the cleaner beaches in that area were dirty when compared to the standard I'm applying, which is the average NJ beach in mid season.

The fish are safe to eat all along the eastern seaboard. Shellfish may or may not be due to local conditions. It takes some shell fish generations to recover from pollution.

so what you are saying is, you like the beaches in jersey.

[quote=skolbrother]so what you are saying is, you like the beaches in jersey.[/quote]

Actually I hate the beach. However, it's a necessary evil when getting to the water.

Give me points for making the beaches sound so good that everyone here wants to change their vaca plans and come to Jersey this summer.

Did I mention that NJ has the largest clothing optional beach in the country? For that all over tan, join 5,000 to 10,000 other like minded people any weekend day. Things are calmer during the week. Legal skinny dipping. Everything from drop dead gorgeous to get out of the way you're blocking the sun. So I'm told.

Always a salesman.

People are moving to the SE for the temperate temperatures, not the beaches. Along the east coast NJ is the hands down winner in the clean beach catagory. ........Beaches in both SE and SW FL are not nearly as nice or as clean.  [/quote]

Come on, Bondguy, I agree with much of what you've said here, but I've got family on the NJ S.E. shore and have been going there all my life. There's just no comparison between NJ beaches and the Southeast. None, zip, zero, nada.

I agree. After travelling to many if not most of the beaches along the east coast none are as nice as NJ. Almost all our recreation involves being on the water and/or being on the beach (Catamarran racing for example).

Not counted in above statement are beaches along the Redneck Riviera or Padre Island. We haven't gotten there yet, so I'll let you know.

Like I said, I've had life long experiences on NJ beaches (Southern coast) and just don't agree.

In fact, fair or not, ask the average American what comes to mind when they hear the words "New Jersey" and "beaches", they're likely to answer "medical waste".

How about that? To find medical waste you actually have to look for it. Not only does NJ look, but when they find it they publicize it. Full disclosure. Jersey is one of the few states that cleans its beaches and extensively checks water quality. Interesting how many people draw the wrong conclusion from that effort.

I'm sure NJ does fine work these days and the "medical waste" issue is a legacy of days gone by. When I lived in the NYC area 1989-91, thereabouts, medical waste washing up on NJ beaches was as common as rain. It was a running joke.

So how clean is the water on your beach?

Perfect, thanks for asking, and it draws retirees and vacationers by the ton. (literally, you should see some of them)

The majority of my clients are transplants from the Northeast and Midwest and almost to the last one they'll tell you they came here for the ocean and the beautiful beaches. Now, if you want some Buick sized mosquitos or some alligators, I have some spares

The mosquito is the Jersey state bird. But the far more painful experience is the Greenhead fly.

Hey, I was trying to throw you a bone. Thanks for reminding me about those flies, they make our no-see-ums look beautiful by contrast. As to the NJ state bird, you're right, I owe the part of my dead brains cells not killed by alcohol during my mis-spent youth to riding behind the sprayer trucks when I was a kid.

Like mosquitos, it's only the females that bite. Absolutely agree that the SE has some beautiful beaches. And who can argue with that ocean? Yet, the water quality is unknown.

Nah, not unknown at all. Constantly tested and we don't have the large urban centers or industrial threats to the ocean near our shores that NJ health officials have to deal with. That's the run-off danger source.

Then there's the usability of the beaches for swimming. In SW FL, Sanibel Island area, too many Bull Sharks around to comfortably swim or kayak.

Sharks are nature's way of culling the human herd, don't you know?

This doesn't keep us out of the water, NJ has sharks too. Just much less of a factor in Jersey.

We also have near year-round access. Seriously, I've lived on/near both, and there's just no contest. OTOH, we don't have AC or the Eagles here, so perhaps it's a much more even score.

Nothing funnier than a guy in jersey trying to tell us how great new jersey is.

My biggest complaint with the Outer Banks was the condition of the beaches. Trash strewn is the only way to describe it.

I've never seen Outer Banks beaches in less than beautiful condition. Are you sure you weren't there after a major storm or during some other event? Maybe a strike by city workers or tourists-gone-wild day? That's really a strange one.

Absolutely! Always a great place. And go one Island north to Island Beach State Park and you have 10 miles of undeveloped beach. Both LBI and IBSP are seperated from the mainland by Barnegat Bay. Barnegat (Burning Place in Dutch, or so i'm told) is a 40 mile long bay good for anything water bourne. Fish in the morning, sail in the afternoon once the dependable SW winds kick. Windless, darn, break out the sea kayaks and explore the sedges. There is a reason NJ is one of the biggest boating markets in the country.

Yeah Yuh..... Good times.....

[quote=mikebutler222]

People are moving to the SE for the temperate temperatures, not the beaches. Along the east coast NJ is the hands down winner in the clean beach catagory. ........Beaches in both SE and SW FL are not nearly as nice or as clean.  [/quote]

Come on, Bondguy, I agree with much of what you've said here, but I've got family on the NJ S.E. shore and have been going there all my life. There's just no comparison between NJ beaches and the Southeast. None, zip, zero, nada.

I agree. After travelling to many if not most of the beaches along the east coast none are as nice as NJ. Almost all our recreation involves being on the water and/or being on the beach (Catamarran racing for example).

Not counted in above statement are beaches along the Redneck Riviera or Padre Island. We haven't gotten there yet, so I'll let you know.

Like I said, I've had life long experiences on NJ beaches (Southern coast) and just don't agree.

That's Ok, We're crowded enough as it is.

In fact, fair or not, ask the average American what comes to mind when they hear the words "New Jersey" and "beaches", they're likely to answer "medical waste".

How about that? To find medical waste you actually have to look for it. Not only does NJ look, but when they find it they publicize it. Full disclosure. Jersey is one of the few states that cleans its beaches and extensively checks water quality. Interesting how many people draw the wrong conclusion from that effort.

I'm sure NJ does fine work these days and the "medical waste" issue is a legacy of days gone by. When I lived in the NYC area 1989-91, thereabouts, medical waste washing up on NJ beaches was as common as rain. It was a running joke.

The problem was blown way out of proportion, as you're doing here by saying common as rain.

So how clean is the water on your beach?

Perfect, thanks for asking, and it draws retirees and vacationers by the ton. (literally, you should see some of them)

All those people and no testing? That's a little scary don't you think?

The majority of my clients are transplants from the Northeast and Midwest and almost to the last one they'll tell you they came here for the ocean and the beautiful beaches. Now, if you want some Buick sized mosquitos or some alligators, I have some spares

The mosquito is the Jersey state bird. But the far more painful experience is the Greenhead fly.

Hey, I was trying to throw you a bone. Thanks for reminding me about those flies, they make our no-see-ums look beautiful by contrast. As to the NJ state bird, you're right, I owe the part of my dead brains cells not killed by alcohol during my mis-spent youth to riding behind the sprayer trucks when I was a kid.

That's funny. I'm waiting for my time spent chasing the sprayer trucks in Ft Lauderdale as a kid to catch up with me. I hope it doesn't. We have more in common everyday.

Worst no seeums were in a place Sugar Loaf Key. We were in Homer who weighs in around 45,000 pounds and  I thought these things were going to carry us off. Oh, and dirty beach. We left, drove Homer up to Fiesta Key. No beach but nice pool and they sprayed to keep the no seeums from no bitting. There is a reason people don't go to the keys in the summer.

Like mosquitos, it's only the females that bite. Absolutely agree that the SE has some beautiful beaches. And who can argue with that ocean? Yet, the water quality is unknown.

Nah, not unknown at all. Constantly tested and we don't have the large urban centers or industrial threats to the ocean near our shores that NJ health officials have to deal with. That's the run-off danger source.

Runoff from rain is the biggest threat. I'll bet you've got that. Runoff overflows even the most modern sewage systems washing contents into the water. Surface pollution also gets washed in.  On top of that, in more rural areas, chemicals from farm fields end up in the water. This is a major problem for the Chesapeake Bay. NJ tests every beach everyday in season. Indusrial waste isn't a threat or a problem. Beach closings in Jersey have been runoff/storm sewage related. Nothing more.

Then there's the usability of the beaches for swimming. In SW FL, Sanibel Island area, too many Bull Sharks around to comfortably swim or kayak.

Sharks are nature's way of culling the human herd, don't you know?

I see people swimming between sand bars at around 6pm and think the same thing.

This doesn't keep us out of the water, NJ has sharks too. Just much less of a factor in Jersey.

We also have near year-round access. Seriously, I've lived on/near both, and there's just no contest. OTOH, we don't have AC or the Eagles here, so perhaps it's a much more even score.

Let's see, tomorrow it's going down to 20 and staying there through Friday, with snow showers. This time of year, after football season, you clearly win.

What beach are you near?

[quote=BondGuy][quote=entrylevelFA]

MikeB clean out your PM folder, I can't reply to you.

Further south than VA Beach.  The water ain't clear, but it sure ain't sewage.  I'd eat anything caught in the water by our city...it's that clean.

[/quote]

My biggest complaint with the Outer Banks was the condition of the beaches. Trash strewn is the only way to describe it. Even the cleaner beaches in that area were dirty when compared to the standard I'm applying, which is the average NJ beach in mid season.

The fish are safe to eat all along the eastern seaboard. Shellfish may or may not be due to local conditions. It takes some shell fish generations to recover from pollution.

[/quote]

In the SE, you have to know what beaches to go to.  We have two different kinds.  Redneck beaches (beer cans, mcdonalds bags, etc.) and family beaches that are cleaner than my office.  You just have to ask which is which.  I guess if you hit the wrong beach you could be under the impression that they are trashy. 

[quote=mikebutler222]

My biggest complaint with the Outer Banks was the condition of the beaches. Trash strewn is the only way to describe it.

I've never seen Outer Banks beaches in less than beautiful condition. Are you sure you weren't there after a major storm or during some other event? Maybe a strike by city workers or tourists-gone-wild day? That's really a strange one.

[/quote]

There were no extradinary circumstances. We've been several times only to find the beaches in varying degree of clean. And we'll go again. I guess I shouldn't condem the entire Outer banks. We were only on four beaches. But I was struck at the irony of Jersey getting a bad rap about its beaches from the uninformed and here at what is suppose to be a world class clean beach, trash. People trash. Cigarette butts, beer and soda cans and bottles,  deli wrap, along with half eatten hoagies(subs). OK , someone had a party, along miles of beach, at four beaches spread over 30 miles.

Almost got the Jeep stuck as the tide was coming in, and Homer had an engine check light come on, but those are another story.

[quote=leftykickserve]Nothing funnier than a guy in jersey trying to tell us how great new jersey is. [/quote]

Why is it funny?

Come on, Bondguy, I agree with much of what you've said here, but I've got family on the NJ S.E. shore and have been going there all my life. There's just no comparison between NJ beaches and the Southeast. None, zip, zero, nada.

I agree. After travelling to many if not most of the beaches along the east coast none are as nice as NJ. Almost all our recreation involves being on the water and/or being on the beach (Catamarran racing for example).

Not counted in above statement are beaches along the Redneck Riviera or Padre Island. We haven't gotten there yet, so I'll let you know.

Like I said, I've had life long experiences on NJ beaches (Southern coast) and just don't agree.

That's Ok, We're crowded enough as it is.

Honestly that's good to hear. I'm trying to remember the specific S. NJ town, but I recall reading about tourism dying off and killing the local economy. It would be a shame to see those places fade away. And besides, we have more than our share of "guests" for my money.

In fact, fair or not, ask the average American what comes to mind when they hear the words "New Jersey" and "beaches", they're likely to answer "medical waste".

How about that? To find medical waste you actually have to look for it. Not only does NJ look, but when they find it they publicize it. Full disclosure. Jersey is one of the few states that cleans its beaches and extensively checks water quality. Interesting how many people draw the wrong conclusion from that effort.

I'm sure NJ does fine work these days and the "medical waste" issue is a legacy of days gone by. When I lived in the NYC area 1989-91, thereabouts, medical waste washing up on NJ beaches was as common as rain. It was a running joke.

The problem was blown way out of proportion, as you're doing here by saying common as rain.

Well, like I said it's long ago enough to be a tad unfair to mention, but it doesn't take too many episodes of needles, etc., washing up on the beach to create a lasting memory.

So how clean is the water on your beach?

Perfect, thanks for asking, and it draws retirees and vacationers by the ton. (literally, you should see some of them)

All those people and no testing? That's a little scary don't you think?

We do test.

The majority of my clients are transplants from the Northeast and Midwest and almost to the last one they'll tell you they came here for the ocean and the beautiful beaches. Now, if you want some Buick sized mosquitos or some alligators, I have some spares

The mosquito is the Jersey state bird. But the far more painful experience is the Greenhead fly.

Hey, I was trying to throw you a bone. Thanks for reminding me about those flies, they make our no-see-ums look beautiful by contrast. As to the NJ state bird, you're right, I owe the part of my dead brains cells not killed by alcohol during my mis-spent youth to riding behind the sprayer trucks when I was a kid.

That's funny. I'm waiting for my time spent chasing the sprayer trucks in Ft Lauderdale as a kid to catch up with me. I hope it doesn't. We have more in common everyday.

Between that and mom cooking on aluminum cookware it's a wonder we can remember our own names. 

Worst no seeums were in a place Sugar Loaf Key. We were in Homer who weighs in around 45,000 pounds and  I thought these things were going to carry us off. Oh, and dirty beach. We left, drove Homer up to Fiesta Key. No beach but nice pool and they sprayed to keep the no seeums from no bitting. There is a reason people don't go to the keys in the summer.

I just hate those little $%^&(), but reminding me of the biting flies makes me a little less angry about them.

Like mosquitos, it's only the females that bite. Absolutely agree that the SE has some beautiful beaches. And who can argue with that ocean? Yet, the water quality is unknown.

Nah, not unknown at all. Constantly tested and we don't have the large urban centers or industrial threats to the ocean near our shores that NJ health officials have to deal with. That's the run-off danger source.

Runoff from rain is the biggest threat. I'll bet you've got that.

Sure, but what we don't have is the same density (think roads and parking lots, anything that prevents rain water from soaking into the ground) or industrial base. That means that rain water has more "clean" areas, like grass a wetlands to sink into before it floods a storm drain system or gets mixed with nasty elements like oils and the like.

Runoff overflows even the most modern sewage systems washing contents into the water. Surface pollution also gets washed in.  On top of that, in more rural areas, chemicals from farm fields end up in the water. This is a major problem for the Chesapeake Bay. NJ tests every beach everyday in season. Indusrial waste isn't a threat or a problem. Beach closings in Jersey have been runoff/storm sewage related. Nothing more.

Then there's the usability of the beaches for swimming. In SW FL, Sanibel Island area, too many Bull Sharks around to comfortably swim or kayak.

Sharks are nature's way of culling the human herd, don't you know?

I see people swimming between sand bars at around 6pm and think the same thing.

This doesn't keep us out of the water, NJ has sharks too. Just much less of a factor in Jersey.

We also have near year-round access. Seriously, I've lived on/near both, and there's just no contest. OTOH, we don't have AC or the Eagles here, so perhaps it's a much more even score.

Let's see, tomorrow it's going down to 20 and staying there through Friday, with snow showers. This time of year, after football season, you clearly win.

What beach are you near?

You wnt me to make condo reservations for you?

[quote=BondGuy]

[quote=leftykickserve]Nothing funnier than a guy in jersey trying to tell us how great new jersey is. [/quote]

Why is it funny?

[/quote]

LOL, when I read that last statement I just pictured the stereotypical italian NY/NJ guy, with the whole accent and all.  Straight out of "Goodfellas."

"Why is it funny?  Hey, youse talkin to me?  Youse talkin to me?  Wise guy!"

Give me $200,000/yr in the South versus a $1,000,000/yr in the North any day of the week.  No question.

Don't mind them coming down here (and they are, in DROVES) but honestly, that accent makes my skin crawl.

[quote=BankFC][quote=BondGuy]

[quote=leftykickserve]Nothing funnier than a guy in jersey trying to tell us how great new jersey is. [/quote]

Why is it funny?

[/quote]

LOL, when I read that last statement I just pictured the stereotypical italian NY/NJ guy, with the whole accent and all.  Straight out of "Goodfellas."

"Why is it funny?  Hey, youse talkin to me?  Youse talkin to me?  Wise guy!"

Give me $200,000/yr in the South versus a $1,000,000/yr in the North any day of the week.  No question.

Don't mind them coming down here (and they are, in DROVES) but honestly, that accent makes my skin crawl.

[/quote]

Bank, you watch way  too much TV. And you've gotten your mobsters mixed up. Goodfellas were NYC mobsters, not Jersey. We've got Tony Soprano.

Speaking of stereo typical NJ/NY guys listen to Rudi Giulaini. Does he make your skin crawl?

Yet to meet a mobster or anyone who speaks anything like one of the guys in any of the movies or TV shows about NJ/NY mosters. What a gyp.

[quote=blarmston]

Absolutely! Always a great place. And go one Island north to Island Beach State Park and you have 10 miles of undeveloped beach. Both LBI and IBSP are seperated from the mainland by Barnegat Bay. Barnegat (Burning Place in Dutch, or so i'm told) is a 40 mile long bay good for anything water bourne. Fish in the morning, sail in the afternoon once the dependable SW winds kick. Windless, darn, break out the sea kayaks and explore the sedges. There is a reason NJ is one of the biggest boating markets in the country.

Yeah Yuh..... Good times.....[/quote]

Blarm...you get into the sauce again?  You know what they say about people who talk to themselves...

Yeah well. I may have been a little intoxicated still from last night.... Ahhh... Good times...

You guys crack me up, you can keep your medical waste, beer cans, rednecks, heck you can even keep the sand.

I much prefer my Vegas beaches at The Hard Rock, Mandalay Bay, or if we're really feeling adventureous the topless "beach" at Ceasar's. 

And if we really want to go jetskiing or boating, Lake Mead is only an hour away.

Moved out here from the south 3 years ago and the only way we're going back is in a box.

[quote=ExPropTrader]

You guys crack me up, you can keep your medical waste, beer cans, rednecks, heck you can even keep the sand.[/quote]

Right, because everyone knows there isn't any trash or rednecks in Vegas.  

Seriously, I enjoy my visits, but you can keep your 116 degree August days. Seems like there's no place without some drawback, including my old home Hawaii...

[quote=mikebutler222][quote=ExPropTrader]

You guys crack me up, you can keep your medical waste, beer cans, rednecks, heck you can even keep the sand.[/quote]

Right, because everyone knows there isn't any trash or rednecks in Vegas.  

Seriously, I enjoy my visits, but you can keep your 116 degree August days. Seems like there's no place without some drawback, including my old home Hawaii...

[/quote]

But Vegas is such a good place to raise a family.

[quote=BondGuy]

But Vegas is such a good place to raise a family.

[quote=mikebutler222][quote=ExPropTrader]

You guys crack me up, you can keep your medical waste, beer cans, rednecks, heck you can even keep the sand.[/quote]

Right, because everyone knows there isn't any trash or rednecks in Vegas.  

Seriously, I enjoy my visits, but you can keep your 116 degree August days. Seems like there's no place without some drawback, including my old home Hawaii...

[/quote]

I have to agree with you on that one, there's trash and rednecks everywhere, less here than in TN though.

Everyone seems to complain about the heat but I promise when we decide to move here it was in July, it was 110 when I left here and that was tolerable, but as soon as I stepped off the plane in Nashville I was miserable, it was ONLY 90 but the 95% humidity made it worse than Vegas.  So I much prefer the "dry" heat.  In addition we don't have to worry about tornadoes, hurricanes, snowstorms.

I guess it all depends on what you're used to and living in TN for 32 years really lowered my standards.

[quote=mikebutler222]

But Vegas is such a good place to raise a family.

[/quote]

Right now it's just me and the wife so we haven't tried that yet, gotta wait a couple of years till I grow up.  I don't really see how it's worse than any other major city though. 

 I have to say on the whole beaches thing that any NJ beach pales in comparison to oh I don’t know any one of two dozen Socal beaches.  Like Newport, Santa Barbara, Zuma, etc.  I could go on and on but without a doubt I will put those beaches against “dirty Jersey” anyday of the week.

Nothing like the beaches in San Diego land as well- Del Mar, La Jolla Shores, and good 'ol Pacific Beach where you can drink and party on the sand with 2K other 20-somethings every day of the week from March 1- November 1.

It doesnt suck...

[quote=DodgerDraftpick] I have to say on the whole beaches thing that any NJ beach pales in comparison to oh I don't know any one of two dozen Socal beaches.  Like Newport, Santa Barbara, Zuma, etc.  I could go on and on but without a doubt I will put those beaches against "dirty Jersey" anyday of the week.[/quote]

Dirty Jersey?

Cute.

So Mr. Dodger draft pick, Jersey beach expert, on which Jersey beaches are you basing that opinion?

NJ is the first state immediately south of NY along the coast if that helps. That big blue area on the map to the right of both states is the Atlantic Ocean. I'm sure you've read about it.

Next moron please!

bond guy i generally appreciate your insights. i  also am very proud of where i am from having said that, this jersey thread is bordering on obsessive.

Who saw the (2) best friends from Jersey on American Idol last night?

Blarn-  They were in your target market.

[quote=skolbrother]bond guy i generally appreciate your insights. i  also am very proud of where i am from having said that, this jersey thread is bordering on obsessive.[/quote]

Yup, it's a great state that gets punched around a lot let's face it, there has to be a reason so many people live here. It sure isn't the mountain views.

I don't mind someone who has lived here sounding off. They're entitled. It's the yahoos that get there information from Jay Leno calling the state dirty that put it over the edge.

This started out with me making some factual comments about some of the Beaches we've visited. No bullsh*t, fact. As soon as i mention Jersey the insults start.

I own more property in Florida than I do in NJ, but I'm not a huge fan of that state. Not that it's a bad place. Yet, no one jumping up and down saying that it is a dirty place to live.

[quote=BondGuy]

[quote=skolbrother]bond guy i generally appreciate your insights. i  also am very proud of where i am from having said that, this jersey thread is bordering on obsessive.[/quote]

Yup, it's a great state that gets punched around a lot let's face it, there has to be a reason so many people live here. It sure isn't the mountain views.

I don't mind someone who has lived here sounding off. They're entitled. It's the yahoos that get there information from Jay Leno calling the state dirty that put it over the edge.

This started out with me making some factual comments about some of the Beaches we've visited. No bullsh*t, fact. As soon as i mention Jersey the insults start.

I own more property in Florida than I do in NJ, but I'm not a huge fan of that state. Not that it's a bad place. Yet, no one jumping up and down saying that it is a dirty place to live.

[/quote]

Make that "their information"

BG...know why Jersey has all the toxic waste dumps and California has all the attorneys?

Jersey got to choose first.

(I'm kidding, I'm kidding...now don't go "nucular" on me!!!)

BG please tell which beach in “Clean Jersey” is better than Zuma in Malibu or any beach in Del Mar, that’s near San Diego in case you didn’t know. 

[quote=Indyone]

BG…know why Jersey has all the toxic waste dumps and California has all the attorneys?

Jersey got to choose first.

(I'm kidding, I'm kidding...now don't go "nucular" on me!!!)

lets agree, jersey rocks. and pray to the chat room thread gods that we all agree our own geography kicks ass and stereotypes of any region are somewhat ridiculous.

Who saw the (2) best friends from Jersey on American Idol last night?

Blarn-  They were in your target market.

I didnt see it. What were they all about?

TGIF! I leave early on Fridays and go skiing or snow shoeing!

To each his own enjoy your beaches but I will take the mountains!  

Have a great week end

I'll second that...TGIF!

Off to the beach for me this weekend...nothing beats a beach in late January. 

[quote=DodgerDraftpick]BG please tell which beach in "Clean Jersey" is better than Zuma in Malibu or any beach in Del Mar, that's near San Diego in case you didn't know.  [/quote]

Do you want me to name beaches where the houses aren't falling off cliffs in mudslides or the beaches where wildfires aren't wiping everything out? See how easy it is to take a cheap shot?

I think you missed my point. I'll give you that SOCal has some beautiful beaches. As does NoCal, Oregon, Michigan, among others. But so does New Jersey. Point being if you'd ever been here you'd know that.

[quote=Indyone]

BG...know why Jersey has all the toxic waste dumps and California has all the attorneys?

Jersey got to choose first.

(I'm kidding, I'm kidding...now don't go "nucular" on me!!!)

[/quote]

An olde but a goode.

Like most Jersey guys I take much of our punching bag status in stride. The cheap shots do get old after awhile. The problem is many people are uninformed to the point that they actually believe the jokes.

I was on a kayaking board. One of the members of this international forum mentioned the good sea kayaking along the Jersey Shore. Well, predictibly the insults started. One guy in particular was really ripping NJ a new one. Really nasty stuff about having to be crazy to go anywhere near the water in Jersey. I searched his postings to find out more about him. He lives in Indiana. His postings tell stories about how he has a hard time getting the green slime and crud off his boats when he's done kayaking in his area and seeks advice on how best to clean his boats without damaging them. He also says that he and his club won't swim in the water they paddle in. Yet, he won't come paddle in water that save for Giardia(found everywhere), you could drink from the river. So yeah, it gets old when people who boat in sludge believe they've got one up on Jersey. This poster doesn't see the irony of his posts.

As a side note, Even though I've never seen more of Indiana than what you can see from I 80, I'm sure it's not a bad place.

That one was told to me by a local attorney and I couldn’t help but be amused.  I’ll agree that just about any locale has it’s bright spots and it’s warts…and all things considerd, I’m happy to live in fly-over country/tornado alley…

[quote=BondGuy][quote=Indyone]

BG...know why Jersey has all the toxic waste dumps and California has all the attorneys?

Jersey got to choose first.

(I'm kidding, I'm kidding...now don't go "nucular" on me!!!)

[/quote]

An olde but a goode.

Like most Jersey guys I take much of our punching bag status in stride. The cheap shots do get old after awhile. The problem is many people are uninformed to the point that they actually believe the jokes.

I was on a kayaking board. One of the members of this international forum mentioned the good sea kayaking along the Jersey Shore. Well, predictibly the insults started. One guy in particular was really ripping NJ a new one. Really nasty stuff about having to be crazy to go anywhere near the water in Jersey. I searched his postings to find out more about him. He lives in Indiana. His postings tell stories about how he has a hard time getting the green slime and crud off his boats when he's done kayaking in his area and seeks advice on how best to clean his boats without damaging them. He also says that he and his club won't swim in the water they paddle in. Yet, he won't come paddle in water that save for Giardia(found everywhere), you could drink from the river. So yeah, it gets old when people who boat in sludge believe they've got one up on Jersey. This poster doesn't see the irony of his posts.

As a side note, Even though I've never seen more of Indiana than what you can see from I 80, I'm sure it's not a bad place.

[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=BondGuy][quote=Indyone]

BG...know why Jersey has all the toxic waste dumps and California has all the attorneys?

Jersey got to choose first.

(I'm kidding, I'm kidding...now don't go "nucular" on me!!!)

[/quote]

An olde but a goode.

Like most Jersey guys I take much of our punching bag status in stride. The cheap shots do get old after awhile. The problem is many people are uninformed to the point that they actually believe the jokes.

I was on a kayaking board. One of the members of this international forum mentioned the good sea kayaking along the Jersey Shore. Well, predictibly the insults started. One guy in particular was really ripping NJ a new one. Really nasty stuff about having to be crazy to go anywhere near the water in Jersey. I searched his postings to find out more about him. He lives in Indiana. His postings tell stories about how he has a hard time getting the green slime and crud off his boats when he's done kayaking in his area and seeks advice on how best to clean his boats without damaging them. He also says that he and his club won't swim in the water they paddle in. Yet, he won't come paddle in water that save for Giardia(found everywhere), you could drink from the river. So yeah, it gets old when people who boat in sludge believe they've got one up on Jersey. This poster doesn't see the irony of his posts.

As a side note, Even though I've never seen more of Indiana than what you can see from I 80, I'm sure it's not a bad place.

[/quote]

Hey BG your inbox is full...

Thanks, more space now.
[/quote]

BG you seem to think that houses falling off cliffs happens everyday.  I can assure that you that it is actually a rare occurence despite what you might think out in “Dirty Jersey”.  As for have I been to Jersey, yes I have.  Several times in fact when I was in the Navy and stationed in Rhode Island.  I am sure there are nice places to live in Jersey.  I have never seen one, and am sure a random poll on this fourm, will show an overwhelming majority would want to live in San Diego, Newport Beach, or Pacific Palisades way more than any town in Jersey.  So let’s see what people say Jersey or SoCal make your choice!

Well.... My parents have a beach house on the beach in Jersey, in a great area about halfway along the Shore. I live in SoCal, so I also have a frame of reference for this lifestyle and beach variety as well.

While they are different, they both have appeal in their own right... This chest bumping about "whose beach is te best" is getting old.

I, for one, am over it....

[quote=DodgerDraftpick]BG you seem to think that houses falling off cliffs happens everyday.  I can assure that you that it is actually a rare occurence despite what you might think out in "Dirty Jersey".  As for have I been to Jersey, yes I have.  Several times in fact when I was in the Navy and stationed in Rhode Island.  I am sure there are nice places to live in Jersey.  I have never seen one, and am sure a random poll on this fourm, will show an overwhelming majority would want to live in San Diego, Newport Beach, or Pacific Palisades way more than any town in Jersey.  So let's see what people say Jersey or SoCal make your choice![/quote]

I apologize to blarmston up front.

Let's see, seven of the ten most air polluted cities are in California. That's the first seven out of the top ten! LA, Long Beach, Riverside, Visalia, Porterville, Bakersfield, Fresno, and Madera. The worst any other place ranks is 8th. And you're calling us dirty?

Moving on, lets talk about education. California without a doubt has some beautiful places. However, when it comes to educating your children not so pretty. 2006 rank, 47th. And in case you are a product of that system, there are only 50 states. I thought Florida schools sucked. Turns out, as bad as they are, they're ranked 29th. Which begs the question: How bad do you have to be to be 47th? By the way, NJ 4th.

Here's another quality of life issue, traffic congestion. California cities hold the top five places, LA, Long Bch, Santa Ana, SF, and Oakland. Does it really take five hours each way to get to and from the office?

And there's this: You elected a second rate actor, former body builder as Governor not once, but twice. Even the the people in Minnesota are are asking "Who are the assholes now?"

No doubt SOCal would win in a pol of places to live. But for those people who actually make that chioce to live there it would be a mistake if the health, education ,and quality of life issues raised are important to them. As for the rest of us, we can always visit and not have to live with the day to day problems. We're planning to vaca in wine country in the next year or two. Got to do the San Juans first.

As for your experience in NJ, the better bars are in South Jersey. Try those next time.

[quote=BondGuy]

Let's see, seven of the ten most air polluted cities are in California. That's the first seven out of the top ten! LA, Long Beach, Riverside, Visalia, Porterville, Bakersfield, Fresno, and Madera. The worst any other place ranks is 8th. And you're calling us dirty?

Moving on, lets talk about education. California without a doubt has some beautiful places. However, when it comes to educating your children not so pretty. 2006 rank, 47th. And in case you are a product of that system, there are only 50 states. I thought Florida schools sucked. Turns out, as bad as they are, they're ranked 29th. Which begs the question: How bad do you have to be to be 47th? By the way, NJ 4th.

Here's another quality of life issue, traffic congestion. California cities hold the top five places, LA, Long Bch, Santa Ana, SF, and Oakland. Does it really take five hours each way to get to and from the office?

And there's this: You elected a second rate actor, former body builder as Governor not once, but twice. Even the the people in Minnesota are are asking "Who are the assholes now?"

No doubt SOCal would win in a pol of places to live. But for those people who actually make that chioce to live there it would be a mistake if the health, education ,and quality of life issues raised are important to them. As for the rest of us, we can always visit and not have to live with the day to day problems. We're planning to vaca in wine country in the next year or two. Got to do the San Juans first.

As for your experience in NJ, the better bars are in South Jersey. Try those next time.

I will try the bars next time I am out in Jersey.  No I am not a product of the education system completely.   And yes traffic is bad if you are a nine to fiver slaving away for a boss your whole life.  I have to protest on you knocking on Arnold.  Lines like “It’s not a tumor”, and “I’ll be back” are classics.  The reason we elected him was that Gray Davis had screwed up our budget royally like we were a few billion dollars off.  So that is why he got the axe and the The Terminator got in.   To really start a debate on here I will say that he is better than your Governor who had to resign over some uh personal issues with an aide.  That by the way is putting it very lightly.  At least if he was in California he wouldn’t have resigned he would have just said I made a mistake.  Finally on the pollution issue:  Bakersfield, Fresno, Madera, Porterville, Riverside, Visalia,  are all places that aren’t high on the areas to live poll in my opinion.  If I had to live there I too would move out of California.  Long Beach has some nice parts but a lot of rundown parts too.  LA is LA, I don’t know of anybody who lives downtown and there and the surrounding areas are where the worst pollution is for the most part.  I live in a nice area on the outskirts so I am not coughing up my lung when I run on the beach.  Finally on educaton when you are the most populous state of course you are probably going to rank a bit low in that department.  I bet if you looked at all the private schools scores I.E. where most of the wealthy send their kids, you would see a different story.  That’s my two cents, oh and by the way we once again are top ten in the World’s economy if we were on our own.  Don’t think Jersey is anywhere near that.

I was wondering when the governor of NJ was going to come up!  

Not much of a fair shot when you take San Francisco into account…

[quote=DodgerDraftpick]I will try the bars next time I am out in Jersey.  No I am not a product of the education system completely.   And yes traffic is bad if you are a nine to fiver slaving away for a boss your whole life. 

You mean like the average person? So, the privileged get a break?

 I have to protest on you knocking on Arnold.  Lines like "It's not a tumor", and "I'll be back" are classics.  The reason we elected him was that Gray Davis had screwed up our budget royally like we were a few billion dollars off.  So that is why he got the axe and the The Terminator got in.   To really start a debate on here I will say that he is better than your Governor who had to resign over some uh personal issues with an aide.  That by the way is putting it very lightly.  At least if he was in California he wouldn't have resigned he would have just said I made a mistake. 

Our guy didn't have to resign. He decided to resign to move on with his life. And we're not sorry to see him go. Not because of his sexual orientation, but because he turned out to be a lousy governor.

Finally on the pollution issue:  Bakersfield, Fresno, Madera, Porterville, Riverside, Visalia,  are all places that aren't high on the areas to live poll in my opinion.  If I had to live there I too would move out of California.  Long Beach has some nice parts but a lot of rundown parts too.  LA is LA, I don't know of anybody who lives downtown and there and the surrounding areas are where the worst pollution is for the most part.  I live in a nice area on the outskirts so I am not coughing up my lung when I run on the beach. 

And yet you call us dirty when it is your state claims the actual title.

Finally on educaton when you are the most populous state of course you are probably going to rank a bit low in that department. 

Talk about making excuses! Jersey ranks 10th in population. When it comes to educating our children we don't make excuses. We do it.

 I bet if you looked at all the private schools scores I.E. where most of the wealthy send their kids, you would see a different story. 

Yup, and that story is the relatively privileged few get to send their kids to a private school. For the rest, it's lot's of luck getting an education. By the way, the ranking takes all children in account, public and private. Where does that put the public schools? 

That's my two cents, oh and by the way we once again are top ten in the World's economy if we were on our own.  Don't think Jersey is anywhere near that.

And we would want to be, why? Cal's GDP is a product of their population. More people equals higher GDP.

California has a lot going for it. It's got some beautiful areas and great weather. However, when you start looking at it critically, through the eyes of a parent looking for a great place to raise children, or as a person looking for a high quality of life, it starts to come up short. Not to mention mother nature, earthquakes, mudslides, and fires. None are a problem on our side of the country.

Like I said, California, on a good day, a nice place to visit.

[/quote]

You are right  that for the average person SoCal is a rough place.  Bottom line don’t be average and don’t accept being average.  If I had four kids I probably wouldn’t have the same viewpoint.  Therefore I am taking steps to make sure that one day when I do I will be free from financial worry.  Bottom line California is the land of opportunity for the entrepreneur and for someone who is focused on making it big financially.  In this state you either make it or you go move to Idaho or Washington and complain about how tough California is to live in.  I for one am not making excuses and no of plenty of brilliant people who raised good kids and enjoy a high quality of life in places like Malibu, Brentwood, Redondo Beach, etc. etc.  You get the idea.  It definitely is not for everyone and while I am sure you are very succesful in N.J. let’s just admit BG that the odds are high you wouldn’t have made it if you lived in SoCal.

Who here has lived in each region?



I have and must say everywhere has its pro’s. There is nothing like the big city or country.



The south is awesome in the winter, but too hot in the summer. The north has tourists in the summer and the south has tourists in the winter. Ideal is to have the option to go back and forth when ever you want.



I suspect very few people in our industry have this option since our customer base is typically close to home.



Now as for the beaches it depends what one is looking for. If you are lucky and go to RI or South Shore and there is a ton of hot 20 year olds then life is good. If you go on a day when the grannies are out it sucks.



In the south the beaches rule come March, but in June/July only tourists go. Why its too freaking hot.



So like everything in life it just depends on which side of the yard your on. The grass is always greener. So be happy where you are and enjoy the day. Don’t debate where is better, since it is pointless. One thing is for sure the beaches in Kuwait suck!



RUGBY - Those chicks did look good.

"Now as for the beaches it depends what one is looking for. If you are lucky and go to RI or South Shore and there is a ton of hot 20 year olds then life is good. If you go on a day when the grannies are out it sucks. :) "

Not a problem in San Diego. Just go to the beach in front of "World Famous" at the end of Pacific Beach Drive any day from March 1st through Nov 1st... Your eyes will blow out of your head at the 'sights'.... Might catch Blarmston there as well....

[quote=DodgerDraftpick]You are right  that for the average person SoCal is a rough place.  Bottom line don't be average and don't accept being average.  If I had four kids I probably wouldn't have the same viewpoint.  Therefore I am taking steps to make sure that one day when I do I will be free from financial worry.  Bottom line California is the land of opportunity for the entrepreneur and for someone who is focused on making it big financially.  In this state you either make it or you go move to Idaho or Washington and complain about how tough California is to live in.  I for one am not making excuses and no of plenty of brilliant people who raised good kids and enjoy a high quality of life in places like Malibu, Brentwood, Redondo Beach, etc. etc.  You get the idea.  It definitely is not for everyone and while I am sure you are very succesful in N.J. let's just admit BG that the odds are high you wouldn't have made it if you lived in SoCal. [/quote]

We're just trad'in cheap shots here. No reason to be hurt. Of course, my cheap shots are laced with quasi facts. Facts that, even though mike bulter could blow them away in a NY minute, are facts just the same. Kinda sorta. And that makes my cheap shots far better than yours. By the way, NY is a state and a minute is a unit of time.

There is little doubt that had I started in CA I would have failed. That's why I chose the far easier states of NJ, and NY to build my practice. That's the value of a good education.

[quote=blarmston]

"Now as for the beaches it depends what one is looking for. If you are lucky and go to RI or South Shore and there is a ton of hot 20 year olds then life is good. If you go on a day when the grannies are out it sucks. :) "

Not a problem in San Diego. Just go to the beach in front of "World Famous" at the end of Pacific Beach Drive any day from March 1st through Nov 1st... Your eyes will blow out of your head at the 'sights'.... Might catch Blarmston there as well....

[/quote]

NJ has Sandy Hook. There is a nude bech there. Everything from drop dead gorgeous super models to get out of the way you're blocking the sun. All wearing only the clothes they were born with. However, with over 5000 nekkid bodies on the beach on the average summer weekend afternoon, it becomes sensory overload. Or so I'm told. Still, an interesting place to visit.

Snow tonight, then not going above 25 by the weekend and for all of nxt week. San Diego's sounding really good right now, beach or not

Ahhh.. Sandy Hook... One supermodel in a crowd of 4000 from Staten Island and Brooklyn...

I love Jersey, and Belmar definately goes off during the summer as well... Back in the old days, Seaside Heights was the place to be... Steal a couple beers from the old mans fridge or a half finished bottle of Jack, put it in a Coke bottle, and cruise the boardwalk looking for a kiss from a pretty girl... Those were the days....

[quote=blarmston]

Ahhh.. Sandy Hook... One supermodel in a crowd of 4000 from Staten Island and Brooklyn...

[/quote]

I see you've been there! And you left out all the Jersey City babes.

Well we finally agree to disagree BG.  I have to admit this was a fun thread to debate on though.  Tell you what  if you are ever in SoCal pm  me and I will take you out and about to change your mind.

"Well we finally agree to disagree BG.  I have to admit this was a fun thread to debate on though.  Tell you what  if you are ever in SoCal pm  me and I will take you out and about to change your mind."

DDP- come on down to SD and I will show you how we roll down here.... You couldnt handle a weekend with us...

Blarm I will take you up on that offer.  I was actually just there last weekend for seeing a couple of family members and a meeting with a potential client down in SD.  It really pops off down there and is out of control.  I was lucky my first summer in Socal I got to stay at the Point Loma Naval Base.  Ohh the good times at Mission Beach and all the great stories. 

"Ohh the good times at Mission Beach and all the great stories."

Good times.......

New England rules it is 6 degrees today… My locks are frozen on my second car and I had to wear 6 layers to stay warm.



Wish I lived in San Dieago

Gonna be 68 and sunny here today. Yesterday it was in the mid 70’s and sunny for the big game…

Only 68 eighty today up north Blarm and very sunny.  Air Force I feel for you the worst winter I ever experienced was at NETC Newport man that was terrible.

Yeah man it get horrible with that wind. Seems GORE has been real quite on global warming this month. Supposed to be coldest since 72

I doubt if there will be much polar ice cap melt this week…freaking cold in the midwest also…

Appointment in Telluride in the morning and then Ski the rest of the day on Wed.

I feel for every one in the midwest grew up there! East coast not much better. I do not even want to visit the east cost