Big decision time
After lurking over the boards for a few weeks here, I decided to see if I can get some help with a decision that I've been going back and fourth with. I just turned 25 and have been out of college for about a year and a half and have been dabbling with the idea of breaking into this industry for a few years. I have offers on the table from both Northwestern Mutual (signing bonus & 100% commission) and Farm Bureau (reduced base salary with bonus). I know they are different cultures with different focus (life & p/c vs. perm life and di). I did the surveys for NMFN and didnt have a problem with the confidence part of it but my natural market seems very middle class. Btw, my uncle has been with Allstate in my hometown for over 30 yrs. so my family is locked in with the P/C. The industry is hard enough when ur young, would I be cutting my throat by not having any P/C to offer if I decide to go with NMFN? They both have great training, mentors, and support form what I can see.
Well it all depends on what you want to do. It really seems like you are leaning toward just selling insurance, which if you are then this isn’t the forum for you and there are plenty of good ones for insurance salesmen. At NW you will just be selling insurance for a year, then they may let you take your 6 so you can sell mutual funds and variable annuities. I have no idea how farm bureau works so I won’t speak on that.
You may want to broaden your horizons if you want to really get into wealth management. If that's your goal then start with a firm that will pay for you to get your 7 like MSSB, Merrill, or even Edward Jones. If you need the training than EDJ is going to be your best bet in that area, but most people won't stay there in the long term. You also have your regional firms like Stifel and Hilliards and those are worth checking out as well. Most of those firms will pay you a base salary to get your feet underneath you while you prospect and grow your business. BTW how much is the signing bonus from NW? You should know that you will incur other expenses like paying for leads, not having a salary, and paying for your workspace as well.Royal, you are right, I should probably post in the insurance forum as well to get their angle. However, I do have the interest in the advisory side but have been told to focus on insurance at first as a foundation due to my age.
The bonus money is contingent on passing my exams (life & health, series 6, 63) and in the ballpark of 4 grand. In other words, reimbursement plus a little to get started. I checked into mssb, merril, edj and counldn't secure an interview (mssb, merril wanted more sales experience). I never thought about appoaching the regionals though. I guess it boils down to taking the chance with nwfn 100% commish and having the option of financial planning and investments in the future or taking the somewhat safer route of purely insurance with Farm Bureau.[quote=wolverine50]
After lurking over the boards for a few weeks here, I decided to see if I can get some help with a decision that I've been going back and fourth with. I just turned 25 and have been out of college for about a year and a half and have been dabbling with the idea of breaking into this industry for a few years. I have offers on the table from both Northwestern Mutual (signing bonus & 100% commission) and Farm Bureau (reduced base salary with bonus). I know they are different cultures with different focus (life & p/c vs. perm life and di). I did the surveys for NMFN and didnt have a problem with the confidence part of it but my natural market seems very middle class. Btw, my uncle has been with Allstate in my hometown for over 30 yrs. so my family is locked in with the P/C. The industry is hard enough when ur young, would I be cutting my throat by not having any P/C to offer if I decide to go with NMFN? They both have great training, mentors, and support form what I can see.
[/quote] You won't be cutting your throat by not having P&C. In fact, it's just the opposite. If you sell both life and P&C, you'll end up a P&C agent with a small amount of life on the side. Your natural market is pretty irrelevant when it comes to your future success. The only thing that matters with your natural market is that you have the balls to get referrals from them. I've never heard of a newby "signing bonus" with NMFN. You'd be foolish to accept an offer from them without checking out NYL, Mass Mutual, and Guardian also. Comparing NMFN with Farm Bureau is comparing being an electrical engineer with being a CPA. The point that I'm making poorly with that analogy is that they are very different careers.[quote=Royalewitcheese]Well it all depends on what you want to do. It really seems like you are leaning toward just selling insurance, which if you are then this isn’t the forum for you and there are plenty of good ones for insurance salesmen. At NW you will just be selling insurance for a year, then they may let you take your 6 so you can sell mutual funds and variable annuities. I have no idea how farm bureau works so I won’t speak on that.
You may want to broaden your horizons if you want to really get into wealth management. If that's your goal then start with a firm that will pay for you to get your 7 like MSSB, Merrill, or even Edward Jones. If you need the training than EDJ is going to be your best bet in that area, but most people won't stay there in the long term. You also have your regional firms like Stifel and Hilliards and those are worth checking out as well. Most of those firms will pay you a base salary to get your feet underneath you while you prospect and grow your business. BTW how much is the signing bonus from NW? You should know that you will incur other expenses like paying for leads, not having a salary, and paying for your workspace as well. [/quote] You are giving incorrect information. The focus is certainly insurance since it is an insurance company. However, I don't think that there are too many NW general agencies that wouldn't let a newby become registered right away. If he wants to, I also don't think that they'll stop him from getting his 7. Why would he incur expenses like paying for leads? There's no reason for this. If he produces, he probalby won't be paying for his workspace. He may not have a salary, but he will have an enhanced commission rate.Why not work for your uncle, get your licenses and be the investment expert at his P&C business?
Good to hear that the natural market isn't the end all for young people starting out. From feedback by some folks, they paint the picture that if you don't know a decent amount of people in your market, (hopefully affluent) find something else to do.
I was in talks with both NYL and Guardian. They are all great companies without a doubt and seem similar in a lot of ways, but their offices (NYL & Guardian) are about an hour away from my natural market while NMFN is about 5 mins. Yeah I knew that they are totally different paths, just wanted to see if selling p/c being young with middle class market is a big enough advantage out the gate to go that route. But I could see myself having regret a few yrs down the road when its not just about # of clients and dollars but rather wanting to get involved in investments and broadening scope.Believe me, I tried that. My uncle already has a veteran on it and told me to wait a few years before getting involved in investments.
Do you have enough money saved to live for 6 months with no income?
6 months, no sir. Maybe 3 months tops.
NWM I’d guess is out then, if it were me.
If you want to interview with Jones go meet someone in your area that works for them and learn more. They might be able to help you go to the first round.
ML is again hiring for their PMD program.
What's the point of being an investment expert at a P&C business?Why not work for your uncle, get your licenses and be the investment expert at his P&C business?
This means that you have to be fast out of the gate. If you do everything that they tell you to do AND do everything joint work with a more experienced rep, you'll be fine. Otherwise, your money will run out before you figure out what you are doing.6 months, no sir. Maybe 3 months tops.
What's the point of being an investment expert at a P&C business? [/quote][quote=voltmoie]Why not work for your uncle, get your licenses and be the investment expert at his P&C business?
The 5,000 clients probably served out of the office that's been there 30 years is a damn good reason. Allstate has in investment arm but they require a track record .. no reason he could not start with his uncle and move into the larger role.
However, as you read in his response it's a moot point.
I applied last March or April and got rejected. I would venture to guess that Merril takes more experienced folks. It guess it wouldn’t hurt to try again esp if they have a base.
Who would trust a car insurance agent with their life savings? You might pick up a few annuity cases, but nothing significant or anything that takes a lot of advanced investment planning.
If you want to make a quick buck or ensure easy success, go with Farm Bureau. However, if you're primary interest is investments, go to a wirehouse, NWM, EDJ or even a bank... The question really comes down to you, do you want to sell P&C and some life...or do you want to sell life insurance and then some investments somewhere down the line (under a year timeframe). I'm in my early 20's as well but have survived production so far, while also being able to pay for my bills. I'll be upfront with you, it's definitely a lot harder without a wealthy natural market, but if you PROSPECT PROSPECT PROSPECT and work your tail off, success is definitely possible.[quote=ChrisVarick]Who would trust a car insurance agent with their life savings? You might pick up a few annuity cases, but nothing significant or anything that takes a lot of advanced investment planning.
If you want to make a quick buck or ensure easy success, go with Farm Bureau. However, if you're primary interest is investments, go to a wirehouse, NWM, EDJ or even a bank... The question really comes down to you, do you want to sell P&C and some life...or do you want to sell life insurance and then some investments somewhere down the line (under a year timeframe). I'm in my early 20's as well but have survived production so far, while also being able to pay for my bills. I'll be upfront with you, it's definitely a lot harder without a wealthy natural market, but if you PROSPECT PROSPECT PROSPECT and work your tail off, success is definitely possible.[/quote] You have a great point there Chris. While it might be easier to get the P&C, it perhaps may be tougher to close the life policies with them (which is the main focus from both companies to begin with). Did you start with a strong natural market?Don’t apply, walk into the branch and ask to speak with the manager. Come with a plan of action on how you plan to build your business and why you will be the man. If he likes you the rest is just paperwork.
You might try searching the forum, I recall stumbling across some great information at somepoint.
Wolverine, stop listening to these guys that have never worked at either company.
I have worked at NWM at one our nations biggest cities. You WILL get 8,000 sign on($10 k for interns and more experienced ppl). 85% of Whole life and term and lower payouts for DI and LTC. They will NOT SPONSER YOU FOR YOUR 7 IF UNDER THREE YEARS. I can not make this more clear. THEY WILL NOT. THEY WILL NOT. If has nothing to do with production. We had a guy under three years set company records and he was not able to get the 7. Out of 70 reps, one being the number #3 rep in the country, only 4 had their 7. anyomous has good information but on the Series 7 topic and sign on bonus, he is mistaken. On a sidenote, when you work for NWM, Metlife, etc you make more commision up front when you sell outside companies. NWM avg is 1st year-$48,000, 2nd year close to $60,000. However YOU DO have to pay for everything. I mean everything. Paper, business cards, use of printer, copies, literature, letterhead, mailings etc. After three years you pay rent and your own secetary. These expenses run over $50,000 a year for reps over 5 years. Good luck.
Thanks svm. It's amazing how different the details are from what they tell you in the interview process. But, they have been much more upfront than most of the companies I spoke with in the past (waddell & reed, first investors, john hanc***, etc).Wolverine, stop listening to these guys that have never worked at either company.
I have worked at NWM at one our nations biggest cities. You WILL get 8,000 sign on($10 k for interns and more experienced ppl). 85% of Whole life and term and lower payouts for DI and LTC. They will NOT SPONSER YOU FOR YOUR 7 IF UNDER THREE YEARS. I can not make this more clear. THEY WILL NOT. THEY WILL NOT. If has nothing to do with production. We had a guy under three years set company records and he was not able to get the 7. Out of 70 reps, one being the number #3 rep in the country, only 4 had their 7. anyomous has good information but on the Series 7 topic and sign on bonus, he is mistaken. On a sidenote, when you work for NWM, Metlife, etc you make more commision up front when you sell outside companies. NWM avg is 1st year-$48,000, 2nd year close to $60,000. However YOU DO have to pay for everything. I mean everything. Paper, business cards, use of printer, copies, literature, letterhead, mailings etc. After three years you pay rent and your own secetary. These expenses run over $50,000 a year for reps over 5 years. Good luck.
SVM, I know people at Northwestern Mutual who have gotten their 7 in the first year. It's a GA decision on whether someone will get sponsored and not a company decision. I can't argue as to what your GA was willing to do. As for paying for things, with most GA's, it's about production. A small time producer will typically get stuck paying for everything. A big producer will pay for much less and rarely will be paying rent. You have to understand that small producers are an expense to the GA. Big producers are an asset. As an asset, the producer has leverage. I know nothing about sign up bonuses. I was not trying to say that they don't exist. I'm simply not at Northwestern guy and know nothing about these bonuses. Do you really think that with most GAs if they really want a recruit, they would let him walk instead of letting him take the 7?Wolverine, stop listening to these guys that have never worked at either company.
I have worked at NWM at one our nations biggest cities. You WILL get 8,000 sign on($10 k for interns and more experienced ppl). 85% of Whole life and term and lower payouts for DI and LTC. They will NOT SPONSER YOU FOR YOUR 7 IF UNDER THREE YEARS. I can not make this more clear. THEY WILL NOT. THEY WILL NOT. If has nothing to do with production. We had a guy under three years set company records and he was not able to get the 7. Out of 70 reps, one being the number #3 rep in the country, only 4 had their 7. anyomous has good information but on the Series 7 topic and sign on bonus, he is mistaken. On a sidenote, when you work for NWM, Metlife, etc you make more commision up front when you sell outside companies. NWM avg is 1st year-$48,000, 2nd year close to $60,000. However YOU DO have to pay for everything. I mean everything. Paper, business cards, use of printer, copies, literature, letterhead, mailings etc. After three years you pay rent and your own secetary. These expenses run over $50,000 a year for reps over 5 years. Good luck.
Its a great company. But you have to know what your getting into. They don’t like to talk about investments, primarily because they don’t make any money on them. They make you pay for things that should be provided.
But the potential for a seven figure income is as real as it gets. You can make $20,000 your first year or $100,000. I’ve seen both.If you can see yourself selling nothing but insurance for the first three years, then go for it. I mean go for it. NMW products are exclusive, yet they have access to everything else. Plus their stuff is crazy expensive, so if you get someone to buy a policy your set. BTW its an EXTREMELY conservative company, and sort of cult like. Partly because of the few people that still work their love their job, and make a damn good dime doing it.
Our MP said and I quote. “You really don’t need your 7, whats the point of it?.” My office was so anti-investing that I almost puked pr punched them in the face every time I heard them spill their propaganda. Good for your friends. You know the one-two investment specialists that are in every NMW office.
Next time ask them what % of investments make up their biz.
Wolverine: no I did not have a very good natural market.
I too know of registered Series 7 license reps at NWM. I also work at a career shop which does not require a Series 7 because we can not solicit individual securities. However I was able to take it under managing partner's discretion. I can not speak for every single scenario out there, but what I do know is this, managing partners CAN and WILL allow you to take the Series 7. As for my local NWM shop that I interviewed with, office fees and expenses were fairly reasonable. Senior reps paid more money for the bigger offices and the rookies paid $600/month for a cubicle. Just make sure to ask your recruitor every single possible detail before signing on board. Also try to talk to one of the relatively newer agents that haven't been fed the kool-aid before signing any employment contract.Age 25? GO WITH FARM BUREAU!!! You’ll be dealing with a product that people want you to be young. You can easily be making 6 figures by the end of year two. Prospect the kind of person you would like as a client in six or seven years. It’s a cake walk shoe in. Give your clients over the top service and by the time your ready they will be happy to give you a chance to compete.
FARM BUREAU FARM BUREAU FARM BUREAU FARM BUREAU FARM BUREAU FARM BUREAUGaddock, thats a strong response in Farm Bureau’s favor I wouldnt expect on the investment boards lol. Only thing to consider is the competition in my natural market/home town from both my uncle @ Allstate and my buddy who is an agent @FB that referred me to them. But everyone is a prospect with P/C.
Chris and anonymous,
Here’s a question for ya. Did those reps get their 7 WHILE at NWM? And how long have they been in the business? Those are huge factors. One of reps that had their 7 was a transfer from merrill. The other were 10+ years in the business.
[quote=anonymous]Chris and anonymous,
Here’s a question for ya. Did those reps get their 7 WHILE at NWM? And how long have they been in the business? Those are huge factors. One of reps that had their 7 was a transfer from merrill. The other were 10+ years in the business.
SVM, I know people at Northwestern Mutual who have gotten their 7 in the first year. It's a GA decision on whether someone will get sponsored and not a company decision. I can't argue as to what your GA was willing to do. As for paying for things, with most GA's, it's about production. A small time producer will typically get stuck paying for everything. A big producer will pay for much less and rarely will be paying rent. You have to understand that small producers are an expense to the GA. Big producers are an asset. As an asset, the producer has leverage. I know nothing about sign up bonuses. I was not trying to say that they don't exist. I'm simply not at Northwestern guy and know nothing about these bonuses. Do you really think that with most GAs if they really want a recruit, they would let him walk instead of letting him take the 7?[/quote] Idiot.
Having been exactly where you are today, looking back over the last 10 years in the biz, I'd recommend that you make your decision based on the people you'll be working with, trained and mentored by. The firm is secondary.
I've worked in a traditional wirehouse for 2.5 years, had an insurance practice at NML for 8 years, later went to a loosely affiliated MassMutual shop that preached "independence" and I'm now exploring the options of going truly 100% independent of any carrier. Here are some thoughts from a guy who's been where you are today. Assuming both places have top notch producers, people with solid values and good management, I'd choose NML. Their training program is very good, the products are top notch, and their reputation is golden. Almost all affluent clients I have come accross own NML life insurance. Don't listen to sales pitches from other carriers...they all try to compete with NML but they simply can't. However, there are two main downsides with building a practice with NML 1. If you decide to leave NML before becoming fully vested in your renewals, you're going to loose the unvested portion and you can't service the clients easily. NML is a non brokered product. 2. If you have aspirations of being involved in other ventures or starting your own financial planning practice, its tougher to do with NML than with Mass, because of various factors that have to do with the overly concervative nature of NML. Mass will still give you the product quality (though 2nd best), but will afford you greater flexibility, higher payouts and a brokered product. However, that being said, though I left a ton of money on the table when I left NML...I'm very thankful for the experience. If you're going to sell insurance...go with the best...#1 NML, #2 Mass...the others are all far behind and don't offer any advantages over these two.If you want to make very good money and not suffer a slow painful death go to FB. When you are a little older and already have a relationship with hundreds of people that are financial and intangible making the move at the time will give you a 70/30% chance of success instead of the 10/90%+ chance. Don't think FB is going to be a cake walk. Again JMHOGaddock, thats a strong response in Farm Bureau’s favor I wouldnt expect on the investment boards lol. Only thing to consider is the competition in my natural market/home town from both my uncle @ Allstate and my buddy who is an agent @FB that referred me to them. But everyone is a prospect with P/C.
Thanks everyone for the feedback! I will take all of this into consideration as I make my decision tomorrow.
Lifeplanner, that was an excellent post.
"However, that being said, though I left a ton of money on the table when I left NML..." This is why I speak highly of NML as a company, but don't think that they should be someone's top place to work. We have to think as business owners. I don't agree that their products are any better, but that's a completely different conversation and not that relevant for this thread.Source URL:https://www.wealthmanagement.com/forums/rookies-trainees/big-decision-time