66

[quote=NOVA]

If you pass the 66, are you a registered investment advisor?

If you pass the 66, what can you do that 7 holders can't do?

Does the term "money manager" imply registered investment advisor....and/or that he/she passed the 66?

OK, thanks. 

It's interesting and consistent with your comments that the offer I just accepted stipulates that I pass 7 on the first try and pass 66.....but no mention of passing 66 on the first try.

oh and another question...does RIA rep mean that I can legally manage accounts with discretionary authority?  or somethng else?

Put, what are examples of "other such arrangements" you mentioned?

[quote=NOVA]

oh and another question…does RIA rep mean that I can
legally manage accounts with discretionary authority?  or somethng
else?

Put, what are examples of "other such arrangements" you mentioned?

I’m not thinking it’s a road to portfolio management and that’s not where I’m headed anyway.

"Other than the potential for unlimited income being a stock broker is a
dead end job–but if you’re unambitious and relatively dull witted it’s
as good a job as any.“

C’mon Put, now you are trashing the career choice that has supposedly
treated you so well over the years? A career that has risen you to the
"highest ranks of our profession?” You’ve got issues my friend…

[quote=blarmston]"Other than the potential for unlimited income being a stock broker is a
dead end job–but if you’re unambitious and relatively dull witted it’s
as good a job as any.“

C’mon Put, now you are trashing the career choice that has supposedly
treated you so well over the years? A career that has risen you to the
"highest ranks of our profession?” You’ve got issues my friend…

[/quote]

Nah, the brokers are the journeymen of the industry.



The royalty are the investment bankers and the analysts.



I clearly said if you’re unambitious and relatively dull witted being a
stock broker is a pretty good job–but if you’re ambitious or have an
above average IQ the routine nature of the daily grind will drive you
crazy.



What will you do tomorrow that is completely different from what you
did on Friday, or from what you’ll be doing on May 23, 2006?

Blarmston-Puttrader is an issue, plain and simple.

[quote=blarmston]A career that has risen you to the
"highest ranks of our profession?" You’ve got issues my friend…

[/quote]

If it were a profession there would be no way in hell kids who dropped out of college would find the hiring manager’s door open.



It’s a sales job, like being an insurance agent is a sales job.

[quote=Put Trader]

[quote=blarmston]A career that has risen you to the
"highest ranks of our profession?" You’ve got issues my friend…

[/quote]

If it were a profession there would be no way in hell kids who dropped out of college would find the hiring manager’s door open.



It’s a sales job, like being an insurance agent is a sales job.

[/quote]



I am a “broker” ans Salesman as
you put it.  I have a CFP and a CIMA and have passed 2 levels of
the CFA.  I barely got my bachelors degree on time due to a failed
class my last semester.  I never got A’s in school and can line my
faults and weaknesses up for miles.  Look up “average” and my
photo should be there.  I am, however, an excellent salesman and proud ot it.



I manage the assets for a bunch of foundations, most of which serve
children who have found themselves in horrible situations for which
they had no control.  This has brought me to many very wealthy
families for which I was able to apply my sales
skills to manage a portion of their personal wealth as well as
integrating their charitable intentions as they pertain to their estate
planning.  I now see first hand how these foundations and many
children benefit from what I (and my group) do along with the families
avoiding millions of dollars in federal taxes.  I feel very
confident in our process and the results we provide.  This
confidence and experience breeds lots of sales work as we have networked into this niche. 



The end results from my sales
work benefit more people that Put Trader could ever imagine.  It
is certainly a better ingredient in this world than the toxic ignorance
her or she spews.



For you newer folks out here: If you are a good salesperson  take that talent seriously!  Build something of value and go Sell It!  You can be proud of that. Put Trader does not know what you do, so do not let him or her trip you up.

[quote=blarmston]

I manage the assets for a bunch of foundations, most of which serve
children who have found themselves in horrible situations for which
they had no control. [/quote]

Do you believe that the directors of those foundations ever talk among themselves about moving their accounts elsewhere?



I do not believe that you just stumbled into a niche like that. 
The world of foundations and the super wealthy who support them is very
closed to all but their own.



It’s ridiculous to think that J Withering Witherton, IV is going to
decide to trust the foundation’s assets to Joe Bagadoughts from the
other side of town.  It just doesn’t happen.



There is nothing wrong with what is known as "directed business,"
nothing at all, but you have to admit that niche marketing is all but
impossible without an entree into the niche.

I know they talk about moving it.  Their responsibility to to the foundation, not me.  I have to earn it to keep it.



I did not stumble into it.  The only wealth client I had wished to
set up something to benefit a particular charity, and they introduced
me to their attorney who’s firm specialized in such things.  This
is how it started…from there my sales skills with the attorney and
her partners made it grow.



I am not Joe Bagadoughnuts, although I do have more money tied up in
the motors of my boat that I do in my truck and my wifes car.  I
do live on the poorer side of town.  It does happen, but it does
not just happen.



A good salesperson can make that niche happen.

A man’s IQ is inversely related to his desire to drive a truck.

I think you just showed us all who you are.  You actually serve a
purpose out here, but you just don’t know what that is…which makes it
even better.

[quote=blarmston]"Other than the potential for unlimited income being a stock broker is a
dead end job–but if you’re unambitious and relatively dull witted it’s
as good a job as any.“

C’mon Put, now you are trashing the career choice that has supposedly
treated you so well over the years? A career that has risen you to the
"highest ranks of our profession?” You’ve got issues my friend…

[/quote]



Blarm…the career choice of FA or broker didn’t serve Put
well…being a management leech who made his money off the backs of the
folks who did the REAL work served him well.  Serving on NASD
boards…home office committees.  Read his posts…he’s the
classic example of why your payout keeps getting cut…to support the
oppressive cost structure embeddded in most wirehouses these days…

[quote=Put Trader][quote=blarmston]
I manage the assets for a bunch of foundations, most of which serve children who have found themselves in horrible situations for which they had no control. [/quote]
Do you believe that the directors of those foundations ever talk among themselves about moving their accounts elsewhere?

I do not believe that you just stumbled into a niche like that.  The world of foundations and the super wealthy who support them is very closed to all but their own.

It's ridiculous to think that J Withering Witherton, IV is going to decide to trust the foundation's assets to Joe Bagadoughts from the other side of town.  It just doesn't happen.

There is nothing wrong with what is known as "directed business," nothing at all, but you have to admit that niche marketing is all but impossible without an entree into the niche.
[/quote]

Once again the "traveling manager" proves he knows nothing about the business. Competing for the managed money business of trusts and foundations is anything but “directed business”. The vast majority of them have boards that understand their fiduciary responsibilities and take them seriously They know what sharp financial advisors look like and know how to kick out a RFP.  It’s highly competitive and there’s no “Bagadonuts” types earning it.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=blarmston]"Other than the potential for unlimited income being a stock broker is a dead end job--but if you're unambitious and relatively dull witted it's as good a job as any."
C'mon Put, now you are trashing the career choice that has supposedly treated you so well over the years? A career that has risen you to the "highest ranks of our profession?" You've got issues my friend...
[/quote]

Blarm....the career choice of FA or broker didn't serve Put well...being a management leech who made his money off the backs of the folks who did the REAL work served him well.  Serving on NASD boards....home office committees.  Read his posts.....he's the classic example of why your payout keeps getting cut....to support the oppressive cost structure embeddded in most wirehouses these days....
[/quote]

To all you New Yorkers back there, I suggest you all carpool into the
city one evening, pick up Put at his luxurious mansion on the Lower
East Side, and drop him off in Brooklyn. I recommend Bedford-
Stuyvesant… I heard they like racist old white men there…

[quote=blarmston]To all you New Yorkers back there, I suggest you all carpool into the
city one evening, pick up Put at his luxurious mansion on the Lower
East Side, and drop him off in Brooklyn. I recommend Bedford-
Stuyvesant… I heard they like racist old white men there…
[/quote]

Yep, that lower east side is the lap of luxury–alphabet city is known for it.



Morons should never try humor.

Investment A

Beta= 1.1

Alpha= 2.5

R Sq= 65



Investment B

Beta=1.0

Alpha= 1.8

R Sq= 91



Which one is better Put?

[quote=stanwbrown]

Once again the "traveling manager" proves he knows nothing about the business. Competing for the managed money business of trusts and foundations is anything but “directed business”. The vast majority of them have boards that understand their fiduciary responsibilities and take them seriously They know what sharp financial advisors look like and know how to kick out a RFP.  It’s highly competitive and there’s no “Bagadonuts” types earning it.

[quote=rightway]Investment A

Beta= 1.1

Alpha= 2.5

R Sq= 65



Investment B

Beta=1.0

Alpha= 1.8

R Sq= 91



Which one is better Put?

[/quote]

That would depend on what your objectives were.



Analysis such as this has been debunked as being nothing more than post
mortum ways of explaining what happened.  Everything about the
future is nothing more than estimates and as anybody who has been in
the biz for more than half an hour knows, past performance is not a
reliable indicator of future results.



One of the most frustrating thing to market theory types is that they
will sit and scream, “But the statistical analysis is saying buy!” and
investors are saying, “I don’t give a flying phuck, I am staying in
cash.”

Fair enough.  Then tell me which of these investments served its
shareholders better in the past, assuming the underlying index they
were being compared to was the same.  The answer is painfully
obvious, but still- support your answer with your rationale.

[quote=rightway]Fair enough.  Then tell me which of these investments served its
shareholders better in the past, assuming the underlying index they
were being compared to was the same.  The answer is painfully
obvious, but still- support your answer with your rationale.
[/quote]



Beats the hell out of me.  If I was also a hedge fund analyst I
would be the King of All that I survey instead of the King of most of
what I survey.



The answer to your little puzzle means exactly zero to me and my life.  If it does to you I think that’s nice.



I will say this.  Brokers who spend a lot of time working with
stuff like sophisticated modeling are wasting their time–you should be
looking for a new client instead of wondering how to add alpha to a
portfolio that cannot possibly absorb the risks associated with such
techniques.



If you’ve got your clients in funds that are underperfoming goose them
up by changing to funds that are managed by managers who understand
adding alpha rather than trying to do it yourself.

Hmmmm.  Your last sentence is interesting.  How then are we
to “find” these better fund managers that understand alpha?  

[quote=rightway]Hmmmm.  Your last sentence is interesting.  How then are we
to “find” these better fund managers that understand alpha?  
[/quote]



You have me confused with somebody who gives a damn.  I am not
interested in goosing up my 23% annualized return.  I’m telling
you that plain old fashioned transaction brokers can out perform most
of the fund managers.

[quote=Put Trader] [quote=stanwbrown]

Once again the "traveling manager" proves he knows nothing about the business. Competing for the managed money business of trusts and foundations is anything but “directed business”. The vast majority of them have boards that understand their fiduciary responsibilities and take them seriously They know what sharp financial advisors look like and know how to kick out a RFP.  It’s highly competitive and there’s no “Bagadonuts” types earning it.

[/quote]
I fully understand the competition for such accounts.  My point is that it is impossible to win the competition unless you are favored.

That you do not grasp the intellctual disconnect involved in saying that it's highly competitive but "no Bagadonuts types earn it."  If it's competitive the Bagadonuts types would have a chance.

I agree that they don't because the competition is limited to those who are favored.
[/quote]

Again you prove you have no idea what you're talking about. Boards these days understand their fiduciary responsibilities and they know having "favored" brokers who don't have to compete is a non-starter.

By "Bagadonuts" I assumed we were talking about people like you, clueless, wearing the short sleeve shirt and the too short tie. There's no bluffing your way into this business any more.

[quote=rightway]Fair enough.  Then tell me which of these investments served its shareholders better in the past, assuming the underlying index they were being compared to was the same.  The answer is painfully obvious, but still- support your answer with your rationale. [/quote]

He is not now, nor has he ever been a respectable producer. He's simply incapable....

[quote=stanwbrown][quote=Put Trader] [quote=stanwbrown]

Once again the "traveling manager" proves he knows nothing about the business. Competing for the managed money business of trusts and foundations is anything but “directed business”. The vast majority of them have boards that understand their fiduciary responsibilities and take them seriously They know what sharp financial advisors look like and know how to kick out a RFP.  It’s highly competitive and there’s no “Bagadonuts” types earning it.

[/quote]
I fully understand the competition for such accounts.  My point is that it is impossible to win the competition unless you are favored.

That you do not grasp the intellctual disconnect involved in saying that it's highly competitive but "no Bagadonuts types earn it."  If it's competitive the Bagadonuts types would have a chance.

I agree that they don't because the competition is limited to those who are favored.
[/quote]

Again you prove you have no idea what you're talking about. Boards these days understand their fiduciary responsibilities and they know having "favored" brokers who don't have to compete is a non-starter.

By "Bagadonuts" I assumed we were talking about people like you, clueless, wearing the short sleeve shirt and the too short tie. There's no bluffing your way into this business any more.

Put-



I am the living embodiement of how wrong you are in regards to who the
boards and foundations hire and why.  Getting in there is tough,
requiring sales skills, which you clearly do not respect (yet you
"advise" us young kids to spend time getting new clients instead of
"adding alpha"), and technical skills as to the management of the
assets (hence the CFP, CIMA, and CFA Ed.). 



You do not understand the very basics of analysis (based on Nobel Prize
Winning work- but you are right and they are wrong?) that both brokers
and money managers use in evaluating risk and return for both
individual securities and managed vehicles.  We could have a
valuable debate about this theory but you don’t understand it, so we
canot debate it.  The fact you managed reps is scary in that you
do not even understand these very basic practices.



Instead, you show you ignorance by swearing out here when posed with a
valid question and claiming real knowledge of such things is a waste of
time (because you have no such knowledge).  Anyone out here who
reads your last few posts will see you for who you are, someone who
either is not in this business or someone who embraces his obvious
insecurities by dispensing broad strokes of advice and criticisms about
subject matter so simple anyone with a mutual fund account and a broker
that recently fired them could accomplish. 

[quote=rightway]Put-



I am the living embodiement of how wrong you are in regards to who the
boards and foundations hire and why.  Getting in there is tough,
requiring sales skills, which you clearly do not respect (yet you
"advise" us young kids to spend time getting new clients instead of
"adding alpha"), and technical skills as to the management of the
assets (hence the CFP, CIMA, and CFA Ed.). 



You do not understand the very basics of analysis (based on Nobel Prize
Winning work- but you are right and they are wrong?) that both brokers
and money managers use in evaluating risk and return for both
individual securities and managed vehicles.  We could have a
valuable debate about this theory but you don’t understand it, so we
canot debate it.  The fact you managed reps is scary in that you
do not even understand these very basic practices.



Instead, you show you ignorance by swearing out here when posed with a
valid question and claiming real knowledge of such things is a waste of
time (because you have no such knowledge).  Anyone out here who
reads your last few posts will see you for who you are, someone who
either is not in this business or someone who embraces his obvious
insecurities by dispensing broad strokes of advice and criticisms about
subject matter so simple anyone with a mutual fund account and a broker
that recently fired them could accomplish. 

[/quote]



I read that three times trying to get the sensation that it actually
said something rather than concluding that it was just a runon sentence
that went nowhere.



Sadly it was the latter.  Just damn, I hate it when I waste my time like that.



Listen up.  The role of a stock broker is to sell.  It is not
to add alpha, it is not to sit with a Hewlett Packard calculator and
calculate mean deviations and R Sq crap, it’s to sell.  You pick
up the phone and call people asking if they are willing to listen to
another voice.



If they say yes or maybe you have an opening, if they say no you do
not, at least not then.  If they tell you to phuck off, or some
other term of endearment, you hang up and go get a drink of water
before you come back and tell yourself, "There has to be a pony in here
somewhere."



People who spend their time trying to decide if a portfolio has enough
alpha are portfolio manager wannabes and this is not the route to that
job.



Your career path has three branches.  You can go into
administration, you can go out the door, or you can stay at your desk
for the rest of your working life.



You are not going to become an analyst, you are not going to become a
portfolio manager and you are not going to become an operations manager.



You might–doubtful, but possible–end up on the “Buy Side.”  That
means that you might end up being the client.  There are brokers
who make that transition–it seems like a logical thing to do to hire
your portfolio manager from the sell side, but in reality it rarely
happens.



Coming into the business one ends up on the “Sell Side” or on the “Buy Side” often by little more than fate.



This is the sell side–and it has but one role, to sell.  If you
like to play around with mean deviations and regressions from the
hickey and how that relates to how far you are from home multiplied by
your age squared you are in the wrong place.



For what it’s worth–this sixty year old man has come to truly
appreciate the Bill Cosby line about anal types who fancy themselves as
being smart.  He said, "Ever been in one of those conversations
like, "Why is there air?’  Hell I know why there’s air–to blow up
volley balls."



I have a Mensa certificate because I always tested well and wondered if
I could get one–sure enough I did.  I then went to one of their
meetings and quietly left after a few minutes–I just don’t give a damn
about what they were talking about.



Just like I don’t give a damn about adding alpha–oh sure I think the
need is there at times, but I’ve been in meetings where it was being
explained that such sophisticated techniques carry so much risk that
all but the largest of portfolios should steer clear.



A guy sitting out here with a quarter of a million in his qualfied plan
is not going to be able to effectively use derivatives to hedge himself
or to increase his return.



Again, if you’re a stock broker in the East Jesus branch your job is to
be on the phone.  If you own a Hewlett Packard calculator throw it
away–you need a dial pad and the abilty to convince a client that you
can be their eyes and ears.  If there is a brain in the equation
it’s the portfolio manager, and that ain’t you!

[quote=Put Trader] [quote=stanwbrown][quote=Put Trader] [quote=stanwbrown]

Once again the "traveling manager" proves he knows nothing about the business. Competing for the managed money business of trusts and foundations is anything but “directed business”. The vast majority of them have boards that understand their fiduciary responsibilities and take them seriously They know what sharp financial advisors look like and know how to kick out a RFP.  It’s highly competitive and there’s no “Bagadonuts” types earning it.

[/quote]
I fully understand the competition for such accounts.  My point is that it is impossible to win the competition unless you are favored.

That you do not grasp the intellctual disconnect involved in saying that it's highly competitive but "no Bagadonuts types earn it."  If it's competitive the Bagadonuts types would have a chance.

I agree that they don't because the competition is limited to those who are favored.
[/quote]

Again you prove you have no idea what you're talking about. Boards these days understand their fiduciary responsibilities and they know having "favored" brokers who don't have to compete is a non-starter.

By "Bagadonuts" I assumed we were talking about people like you, clueless, wearing the short sleeve shirt and the too short tie. There's no bluffing your way into this business any more.

[/quote]

Stan, do you suppose that there might be more than one broker who moves in the world of foundations and charities?

The chances that J Witherington Witherspoon, IV is going to choose anybody other than one of "our own" as the broker for such monies is the height of self delusion.
[/quote]

Just when it seems you couldn't possibly prove yourself to be more clueless, you lower the bar. Once again you go to your old bag of stereotypes, and this time pull out a preppy board member who hasn't a clue about his fiduciary responsibilities so he can hire Biff as the board's broker.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

No one will ever confuse me for Biff, but I've been in plenty of these competitions and have won more than my far share. It isn’t about being Biff, it’s about knowing investment policies, investment theory, the laws and what's going to keep the board members out of hot water.

I would suggest that those here interested in working with HNW clients looking this kind of business. Pursue a CIMA designation, learn managed money, ERISA and investment structure and ignore the fossil’s assertion that you have to be one of “them” to get the business.

[quote=rightway]Put-

I am the living embodiement of how wrong you are in regards to who the boards and foundations hire and why.  Getting in there is tough, requiring sales skills, which you clearly do not respect (yet you "advise" us young kids to spend time getting new clients instead of "adding alpha"), and technical skills as to the management of the assets (hence the CFP, CIMA, and CFA Ed.). 

You do not understand the very basics of analysis (based on Nobel Prize Winning work- but you are right and they are wrong?) that both brokers and money managers use in evaluating risk and return for both individual securities and managed vehicles.  We could have a valuable debate about this theory but you don't understand it, so we canot debate it.  The fact you managed reps is scary in that you do not even understand these very basic practices.

Instead, you show you ignorance by swearing out here when posed with a valid question and claiming real knowledge of such things is a waste of time (because you have no such knowledge).  Anyone out here who reads your last few posts will see you for who you are, someone who either is not in this business or someone who embraces his obvious insecurities by dispensing broad strokes of advice and criticisms about subject matter so simple anyone with a mutual fund account and a broker that recently fired them could accomplish. 
[/quote]

Rightway, the guy's clueless. You and I differ on the value of a CFA to a retail rep (but education's never a negative, right?) but it should be clear to anyone with AUM beyond $5M that Put's a bitter, non-producing, racist, old gasbag...

[quote=stanwbrown]

<o:p></o:p>

No one will ever confuse me for Biff, but I've been in plenty of these competitions and have won more than my far share. It isn’t about being Biff, it’s about knowing investment policies, investment theory, the laws and what's going to keep the board members out of hot water.

I would suggest that those here interested in working with HNW clients looking this kind of business. Pursue a CIMA designation, learn managed money, ERISA and investment structure and ignore the fossil’s assertion that you have to be one of “them” to get the business.

[quote=Put Trader] [quote=stanwbrown]

No one will ever confuse me for Biff, but I've been in plenty of these competitions and have won more than my far share. It isn’t about being Biff, it’s about knowing investment policies, investment theory, the laws and what's going to keep the board members out of hot water.

I would suggest that those here interested in working with HNW clients looking this kind of business. Pursue a CIMA designation, learn managed money, ERISA and investment structure and ignore the fossil’s assertion that you have to be one of “them” to get the business.

[/quote]

In theory Stan, in theory.

[/quote]

Given that you were never a producer, and never approached this business, "theory" is all you have to yammer about. OTOH, Rightway and I DO this business, and we know you're talking out of your hat, as usual. <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

There is no better concentration of HNW investors anywhere than the boardrooms of charities and foundations. If you want to work with those people, get into the game, do the hard work of learning the rules better than they do and compete.

Now, knowing that you shied away from the competition of production, and sought the refuge of a substitute teacher, er, manager’s life, the very idea of competing for business probably scares the bejesus out of you, but the brokers on this board will understand and welcome the challenge.

[quote=stanwbrown][quote=Put Trader] [quote=stanwbrown]

No one will ever confuse me for Biff, but I've been in plenty of these competitions and have won more than my far share. It isn’t about being Biff, it’s about knowing investment policies, investment theory, the laws and what's going to keep the board members out of hot water.

I would suggest that those here interested in working with HNW clients looking this kind of business. Pursue a CIMA designation, learn managed money, ERISA and investment structure and ignore the fossil’s assertion that you have to be one of “them” to get the business.

[/quote]

In theory Stan, in theory.

[/quote]

Given that you were never a producer, and never approached this business, "theory" is all you have to yammer about. OTOH, Rightway and I DO this business, and we know you're talking out of your hat, as usual.

There is no better concentration of HNW investors anywhere than the boardrooms of charities and foundations. If you want to work with those people, get into the game, do the hard work of learning the rules better than they do and compete.

Now, knowing that you shied away from the competition of production, and sought the refuge of a substitute teacher, er, manager’s life, the very idea of competing for business probably scares the bejesus out of you, but the brokers on this board will understand and welcome the challenge.

Stan-



I agree with you on the CFA. Level 1 wasn’t too bad, level two
absolutely leveled me- I could not believe how hard it was, and level
3, which is suppose to be the easiest one, is like a making myself
throw up…I just can’t bring myself to it.  I would go with the
CFP no matter what (and that is also very difficult), then the CIMA if
you are going to do any institutional and/or large charitable
work.  A year ago I had one board member of a church ask a
question about some MPT issues and I answered it and he smiled and said
I was the only one of 3 teams that came in that knew what he was
talking about (even though I think he was a wind bag showing
off).  



I love how Put tells eveyone to focus on selling instead of “adding
alpha”, yet he cannot acknowledge the fact that reps need to have the
ability to choose good managers and funds, not “add alpha”.  A
simple task he could not complete with my example.  I just think
he missed the point because he is not in the business anymore.  He
sounds like a broker who made a bunch of clients broke in the 70’s with
his poor recomendations…and is now bitter.



I agree with most of your posts Stan.

"Listen up.  The role of a stock broker is to sell.  It is not
to add alpha, it is not to sit with a Hewlett Packard calculator and
calculate mean deviations and R Sq crap, it’s to sell.  You pick
up the phone and call people asking if they are willing to listen to
another voice."



I manage a great deal of money you ignorant piker.  Your diareha of the keyboard in constepation of your mind.



I don’t call strangers waiting for an opening.  I don’t add alpha,
I just know how to find managers and stratagies that add it…something
you cannot comprehend since you cannot even relate it to
anything…other than your swear words.  I don’t open $250K
accounts anymore, and I don’t look for people willing to “listen to
another voice”.   Folks like Stan, Joe, EZ, and even
Inquisetive (even though we disagree),  represent something new
folks should read.  You should be read too, but just because your
represent the very type of wannabe prospect we should all stay away
from.  Keep posting.

[quote=rightway]Stan-



I agree with you on the CFA. Level 1 wasn’t too bad, level two
absolutely leveled me- I could not believe how hard it was, and level
3, which is suppose to be the easiest one, is like a making myself
throw up…I just can’t bring myself to it.  I would go with the
CFP no matter what (and that is also very difficult), then the CIMA if
you are going to do any institutional and/or large charitable
work.  A year ago I had one board member of a church ask a
question about some MPT issues and I answered it and he smiled and said
I was the only one of 3 teams that came in that knew what he was
talking about (even though I think he was a wind bag showing
off).  



I love how Put tells eveyone to focus on selling instead of “adding
alpha”, yet he cannot acknowledge the fact that reps need to have the
ability to choose good managers and funds, not “add alpha”.  A
simple task he could not complete with my example.  I just think
he missed the point because he is not in the business anymore.  He
sounds like a broker who made a bunch of clients broke in the 70’s with
his poor recomendations…and is now bitter.



I agree with most of your posts Stan.

[/quote]



Note that we were told that a windbag asked a question that this soul
was able to answer–but that the story does not end with, "…and as a
result I opened a whale of an account."



The street is littered with types who know all the answers, but don’t
grasp that it’s not their job to know the answers.  Your job is to
gather assets–to open accounts.



Want to add alpha–get on the phone and ask somebody in New York what you should do, don’t try to do it yourself.



There are about 5,000 mutual funds–it’s ridiculous to think that a
broker in the Bumphuck Iowa branch is going to even know where to start
when it comes to finding a fund that suits a client’s needs. 
Solution–get on the phone to New York and ask for help.



This clown, Rightway, wastes so much time that it’s a wonder he has not
washed out already–but then it’s been a gravy train since 1982 so
nobody has.

"This clown, Rightway, wastes so much time that it's a wonder he has not washed out already--but then it's been a gravy train since 1982 so nobody has."

The exception, of course, is you Put.

Put wrote-

"There are about 5,000 mutual funds–"



How many Put?  My god, grab the back of your head and pull your head out of your butt and read 1 copy Money Magazine.

[quote=rightway]Put wrote-

"There are about 5,000 mutual funds–"



How many Put?  My god, grab the back of your head and pull your head out of your butt and read 1 copy Money Magazine.

[/quote]



Damn you’re right.  There are not 5,000 there are 5,129 equity funds that you can choose from.



Your grasp of useless information is awe inspiring.



If you’d stop reading Money magazine and develop a relationship with
Merrill’s mutual fund department you’ll find that you have more time to
devote to what is expected of you.



Merrill has no need for a guy who knows precisely how many mutual funds
there are–nor is there a need in a branch for a guy who can add
alpha.  You have one job–to pick up the phone and contact people
who have money that they worry about.



Nothing less but nothing more–you are a one-trick pony.

[quote=rightway]Put wrote-

"There are about 5,000 mutual funds–"



How many Put?  My god, grab the back of your head and pull your head out of your butt and read 1 copy Money Magazine.

[/quote]



ROFLMFAO…well said rightway.  Oh and in his response Put
changes his tune to imply he was referring only to EQUITY funds, which
is not what he first stated…but he does what he must to cover up an
obvious mistake.



I see our friend PT has managed to alienate another regular contributor to the board…big shock.

JoeDaMan- is this guy a trip or what… I still think we should drop
him off in Bed Stuy with him wearing a white cape and hood… That
should do it…

My one-trick works.  Triple your liquid assets and I can refer you
to my intern.  My manager will appreciate the charitable donation.

[quote=Put Trader]

Your grasp of useless information is awe inspiring.



If you’d stop reading Money magazine and develop a relationship with
Merrill’s mutual fund department you’ll find that you have more time to
devote to what is expected of you.



Merrill has no need for a guy who knows precisely how many mutual funds
there are–nor is there a need in a branch for a guy who can add
alpha.  You have one job–to pick up the phone and contact people
who have money that they worry about.

[/quote]



There you go…NOW you sound just like a branch manager from a wirehouse…:  "Hey
look kid, don’t worry about whether it’s a good product or not, or
about whether or not it will make your clients money…just get on
the phone and sell the damn thing.  Let’s put some lipstick on
this pig, ok?"



A perfect example of the messed up attitude that has brought our
industry to the sad state it is in today…I appreciate your giving
the rookies on the board a chance to see what they’re in for if they
end up with a bad manager…

[quote=joedabrkr]

[quote=Put Trader]

Your grasp of useless information is awe inspiring.



If you’d stop reading Money magazine and develop a relationship with
Merrill’s mutual fund department you’ll find that you have more time to
devote to what is expected of you.



Merrill has no need for a guy who knows precisely how many mutual funds
there are–nor is there a need in a branch for a guy who can add
alpha.  You have one job–to pick up the phone and contact people
who have money that they worry about.

[/quote]



There you go…NOW you sound just like a branch manager from a wirehouse…:  "Hey
look kid, don’t worry about whether it’s a good product or not, or
about whether or not it will make your clients money…just get on
the phone and sell the damn thing.  Let’s put some lipstick on
this pig, ok?"



A perfect example of the messed up attitude that has brought our
industry to the sad state it is in today…I appreciate your giving
the rookies on the board a chance to see what they’re in for if they
end up with a bad manager…

[/quote]



What does a good manager do Joe?



Perhaps you can point to an example of where I said to put some lipstick on the pig and sell it?



Is it not possible to be a money raising machine and to put those funds into decent investments?

[quote=joedabrkr]


There you go…NOW you sound just like a branch manager from a wirehouse…:  "Hey
look kid, don’t worry about whether it’s a good product or not, or
about whether or not it will make your clients money…just get on
the phone and sell the damn thing.  Let’s put some lipstick on
this pig, ok?"



A perfect example of the messed up attitude that has brought our
industry to the sad state it is in today…I appreciate your giving
the rookies on the board a chance to see what they’re in for if they
end up with a bad manager…

[/quote]



Great Post.

For the rookies.



The two malcontents who are involved in a verbal circle jerk are toxic.



The reality is that you will find this job to be the most rewarding if
you focus on forming the relationships it takes to gather assets, turn
those assets over to others to manage, and go about gathering some more.



This is a sales job, not an analysts job.



Rightway waxes poetically about Alpha and Beta while Joedabrkr claims
that he runs discretionary money and is beating the S&P by 900
basis points.



They have no grasp of what the business is all about.



What is a joke to me is how they’ll sneer that transaction oriented
brokers are dinosaurs–then talk about how they spend their day in an
endless search for alpha.



It is too laugh.

Perhaps you can point to an example of where I said to put some lipstick on the pig and sell it?

Is it not possible to be a money raising machine and to put those funds into decent investments?



PUT, you have been saying this all along when you state that we
shouldnt worry about concepts such as Alpha, Sharpe, SD,etc. So you are
saying that our job is to smile and dial, while having no knowledge
base to decipher whether what we are slinging holds some merit with the
particular voice on the other end…

" Just pick up the phone, dont worry about adding alpha, and sell
whatever with no thought behind the due diligence involved in
recommending appropriate investments for our clients…"

Congrats Put, you have managed to alienate not only the “kids” on this
post, but also the members who are seasoned, knowledgeable, and
succesfull in the industry… no need to add these are all qualities
that even IF YOU DO POSSESS, is grossly overshadowed by your arrogant
and pompous replies… A PATHETIC OLD MAN… Put the keyboard down,
turn off your computer, and go hug your wife, she misses you since
April 8 th when you joined this site ( unfortunately, a dark day in
history’s annals)

For the rookies.



If you’re going to work at a firm–say Merrill–you have to have faith in their due dilligence.



It is ridiculous to think that you have the time, or the skills, to
determine if a certain mutual fund has the appropriate amount of alpha
or if it’s regression from the standard deviation is acceptable or not.



That’s why you’re working for Merrill–they have lots of really smart people in New York to manage the money you gather.



You cannot be completely unaware of what is going on but the idea that you should spend your time analyzing reports is crazy.



If you ever get the urge to worry about adding alpha do yourself a
favor–send an email to the headquarters staff saying, “Need help
adding alpha to account number 8712-2812.  Please take a look at
portfolio and advise.”  Then get out of the office and go meet a
client or prospect for lunch.



If a client ever asks you about alpha look at them knowingly and tell
them that you want to discuss it with the firm’s experts and you’ll let
him know.  Then go back to the office and send an email to the
home office that says, "Need help adding alpha to account…"



Get it–the thing about being smart in this business is to know where to go for help.

[quote=Put Trader]For the rookies.



If you’re going to work at a firm–say Merrill–you have to have faith in their due dilligence.



It is ridiculous to think that you have the time, or the skills, to
determine if a certain mutual fund has the appropriate amount of alpha
or if it’s regression from the standard deviation is acceptable or not.



That’s why you’re working for Merrill–they have lots of really smart people in New York to manage the money you gather.



You cannot be completely unaware of what is going on but the idea that you should spend your time analyzing reports is crazy.



If you ever get the urge to worry about adding alpha do yourself a
favor–send an email to the headquarters staff saying, “Need help
adding alpha to account number 8712-2812.  Please take a look at
portfolio and advise.”  Then get out of the office and go meet a
client or prospect for lunch.



If a client ever asks you about alpha look at them knowingly and tell
them that you want to discuss it with the firm’s experts and you’ll let
him know.  Then go back to the office and send an email to the
home office that says, "Need help adding alpha to account…"



Get it–the thing about being smart in this business is to know where to go for help.

[/quote]



That is actually a good post.  I would add- pay attention and
learn from the email you get back and become close with the people that
sent it to you.   Once again I would say YOU do not need to
add alpha, just understand what it is, how to evaluate it with risk,
and where to go to get it.

Put,

Like I have been saying, sometimes you DO add value to this forum. The
above post provided good advice- learning how to leverage the experts
within your firm to improve your business. I read the damn thing 3
times searching for a ridiculous comment, but found none. Good work
buddy, keep THOSE types of posts coming…

[quote=Put Trader]For the rookies.



If you’re going to work at a firm–say Merrill–you have to have faith in their due dilligence.



It is ridiculous to think that you have the time, or the skills, to
determine if a certain mutual fund has the appropriate amount of alpha
or if it’s regression from the standard deviation is acceptable or not.



That’s why you’re working for Merrill–they have lots of really smart people in New York to manage the money you gather.



You cannot be completely unaware of what is going on but the idea that you should spend your time analyzing reports is crazy.



If you ever get the urge to worry about adding alpha do yourself a
favor–send an email to the headquarters staff saying, “Need help
adding alpha to account number 8712-2812.  Please take a look at
portfolio and advise.”  Then get out of the office and go meet a
client or prospect for lunch.



If a client ever asks you about alpha look at them knowingly and tell
them that you want to discuss it with the firm’s experts and you’ll let
him know.  Then go back to the office and send an email to the
home office that says, "Need help adding alpha to account…"



Get it–the thing about being smart in this business is to know where to go for help.

[/quote]



Yes perhaps, but what passes for due diligence at the ‘majors’ often
really sucks, and is biased by politics, investment banking, profit
margins, and frankly, incompetence.  If these ‘experts’ were so
damn smart they’d be brokers, because they could make more money with
greater freedom…

[quote=Put Trader]For the rookies.



The two malcontents who are involved in a verbal circle jerk are toxic.



The reality is that you will find this job to be the most rewarding if
you focus on forming the relationships it takes to gather assets, turn
those assets over to others to manage, and go about gathering some more.



This is a sales job, not an analysts job.



Rightway waxes poetically about Alpha and Beta while Joedabrkr claims
that he runs discretionary money and is beating the S&P by 900
basis points.



They have no grasp of what the business is all about.



What is a joke to me is how they’ll sneer that transaction oriented
brokers are dinosaurs–then talk about how they spend their day in an
endless search for alpha.



It is too laugh.

[/quote]



Once again Put your ‘home office mentality’ is showing. 
See…you really think you have to be an ANALyst to invest people’s
money wisely?  No sir…you need to be intelligent, well read,
diligent, and most of all willing to think critically and question the
pablum that passes as conventional wisdom, including that produced by
home office ANALysts and economists.  That’s all.  You folks
in the ivory tower can’t figure that out, most likely because you’re
too busy creating policies and trying to decide whether tomorrow is the
day you’ll finally cut loose a little bit and wear a blue shirt with
your grey/blue wool suit instead of the standard white shirt…be a
renegade for a day.



Yes that’s right…I should just get on the phone, raise money, and
then place it with someone else to manage it…so I can generate the
same mediocre returns that everyone else is experiencing.



You don’t believe I’m generating those kinds of returns because you
can’t even concieve something like that would occur inside that little
box you’re living in.  True alpha?  Generated by some guy in
a BRANCH OFFICE?  No way…can’t happen unless you got at least
an 85 on your series 7(I did), and unless you get your CFA and kiss the
right tushies in management…impossible!



Well, I won’t deny it’s been a good stretch, and I put that record on
the line every day in this market.  And who knows if it will
continue.



I don’t really care if you believe me…my clients don’t have to
’believe’, because they get it on their performance reports every
single quarter.



But hey…I’m no better than a monkey with a cup of pencils…isn’t that something like what you said in another post? 



pfffft!



Oh…and by the way approximately 1/2 of my business is fees, not transactional.



Later.

[quote=Put Trader]

[/quote]



What does a good manager do Joe?



Keeps the lights on, the carpet
clean, the support staff functioning smoothly, and of course handles
compliance issues.  Maybe now and then if he has a truly
insightful and useful sales idea he shares it.  Otherwise,
however, he STAYS OUT OF MY WAY SO I CAN WORK!

Is it not possible to be a money raising machine and to put those funds into decent investments?

Yes it is.  And there are
successful advisors out there who follow that model.  Most of them
also don’t pay any attention to the ‘investment advice’ provided by
their managers and home office flunkys…



[/quote]

[quote=Put Trader] [quote=rightway]Stan-

I agree with you on the CFA. Level 1 wasn't too bad, level two absolutely leveled me- I could not believe how hard it was, and level 3, which is suppose to be the easiest one, is like a making myself throw up...I just can't bring myself to it.  I would go with the CFP no matter what (and that is also very difficult), then the CIMA if you are going to do any institutional and/or large charitable work.  A year ago I had one board member of a church ask a question about some MPT issues and I answered it and he smiled and said I was the only one of 3 teams that came in that knew what he was talking about (even though I think he was a wind bag showing off).  

I love how Put tells eveyone to focus on selling instead of "adding alpha", yet he cannot acknowledge the fact that reps need to have the ability to choose good managers and funds, not "add alpha".  A simple task he could not complete with my example.  I just think he missed the point because he is not in the business anymore.  He sounds like a broker who made a bunch of clients broke in the 70's with his poor recomendations...and is now bitter.

I agree with most of your posts Stan.
[/quote]

Note that we were told that a windbag asked a question that this soul was able to answer--but that the story does not end with, "...and as a result I opened a whale of an account."

The street is littered with types who know all the answers, but don't grasp that it's not their job to know the answers.  Your job is to gather assets--to open accounts.

[/quote]

What do you know, the old goat has  hit on something. But, as is his style, he got it only partly right. Your job IS to gather assets and it is NOT to be an analyst. People who never figure that out never succeed.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

OTOH, your firm, is it's worthy of the term, won't be handing you a cookie cutter answer that you then turn and apply to every person you encounter (that's why the "'jes them there three funds" types get such deserved abuse). You need the skill and education required to apply the myriad of tools at your disposal to the specifics of the clients you work with. You have to be better at it than the others your clients and prospects encounter. You need to be a professional.

It ain't just smile and dial, and it ain't reinventing the investment wheel either.